TORONTO — World leaders must work together to make sure the global recovery stays on track, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Saturday. Geithner made his...
If the drilling punctures a major methane deposit in the deep ocean and allows an explosive decompression it will be more than a butterfly's wings at work.
I am sorry. International Corporations are not human. They are originally creations of man that have no soul, and that have assumed a life of their own. They resist outside regulation or control and have no will or intention to do other than satisfy their own appetite. They have loyalty to no nation and seek only to plunder. They exist as analogous cancer cells in the body of life on earth. They do not grow, they metastasize.
Gatormouth: I am sorry. International Corporations are not human. They are
>"Will the world wide chaos unleashed by the oil gushers' Butterfly Effect lead to more sustainable patterns of consumption and production?"
In this case, it is more like the raging bull effect especially if that oil gets into that great ocean conveyor belt.
Will this disaster lead to more sustainable patterns of consumption and production?
My opinion is that humans have evolved to be smart in some ways but when it comes to a problem like this one, evidence indicates we may not have what it takes to change. Hope we do.
oMeoMi: >"Will the world wide chaos unleashed by the oil gushers'
The spill is and has been a serious emergency. When a picture of it is seen from space, it looks as if our Earth is bleeding and the effect is sadness, even a sense of mourning.
During other disasters, most of the nations on the planet have thrown in with everything they can to help. WHY!!!???
Why can we not ditch the regulations that give BP full control and take all the help we can get with solving this?!!! This is a Wordlwide emergency!!!
They obviously don't have a clue as to how to fix the damage they have wrought or stop it from continuing.
The president has a LOT of power. He wants to be seen as doing something?
An Executive Order telling BP they may continue well closure and cleanup but they must accept help from sources anywhere and everywhere. And then get together with the other presidents and kings of the world and ask them directly for ideas, assistance and cooperative efforts.
This is an American tragedy. But if we do not act quickly, it will be a tradgedy every country on this planet will suffer from. And all nations will mourn.
ugly_american: The spill is and has been a serious emergency. When
BP is still trying to control the diaglogue. Its very sad. A few smart people have compared this to the dust bowl. this could conceivably destroy 1/3 of the economy in the united states. and yet we live tomorrow just like yesterday. gotta pay the rent i guess.
garystartswithg: BP is still trying to control the diaglogue. Its very
"As is the inner, so is the outer; as is the great, so is the small; as it is above, so it is below; there is but One Life and Law; and He, that is worth it, is One. Nothing is inner, nothing is outer; nothing is great, nothing is small; nothing is high, nothing is low; in the Divine Economy."
I had not heard that entire quote, so thanks.
"The 'Lorenz Attractor' is a relatively simple attractor with complex behaviour."
You're glossing-over quite a bit here... I know what you're talking about, because I've read a couple of books about chaos theory. But I don't think I've ever heard the word "attractor" in everyday conversation with others. Actually there's a fair amount of other chaos jargon in this article that is not explained.
Chaos Theory comes from the observation that a "simple and orderly" set of parameters and equations doesn't necessarily lead to a simple and orderly set of results. A system that LOOKS very simple, can lead to a very irregular and surprising set of results. And systems that appear to give random results can actually show patterns in the randomness -- places where the results can "bunch-together" -- those "bunches" are the attractors (aka: "strange attractor states") for the system.
An obvious example is traffic... the rules are pretty simple, but the results are far from uniform. Rush hour is clearly an "attractor" in this system. The "butterfly effect" could be any little thing like a bird or a cell-phone... anything that can distract a driver enough to cause a chain-reaction wreck.
The weather is another great example. The exact temperature at a precise location would be hard to predict more than a few hours in the future. But the average daily temperature for a whole region can be reasonably predicted several days in advance.
--jrd
taiwanjohn: "The 'Lorenz Attractor' is a relatively simple attractor with complex
Actually, that reminds me of an anecdote from the first chapter of "Chaos: Making a New Science" by James Gleick. NASA scientists in the 70's were working on computer models of the world's weather system. Due to a computer glitch, they had to re-run a portion of the simulation. So they went back a few pages in the printout and typed in the values to re-start the system. To their amazement, by the time the simulation got to where it had crashed before, the results were different!
It turned out that the computer stored the values internally with 4 decimal points of precision, but the printout only showed results to 2 decimal places. That miniscule difference in initial conditions led to vast swings in the outcome. (The butterfly effect.)
However, all of the varied results were still within the "normal" range for weather patterns. For example, precipitation changed widely for a given day or week, but remained nearly equal for seasonal average. (The Lorenz attractor.)
Ominously, as they started playing around with this discovery, they found that this early computer model seemed to default towards three possible attractor states: 1. Temperate climate (like we have now); 2. Ice-age climate; and 3. Hot-house climate (think Venus).
Chaos Theory is fascinating and illuminating. I highly recommend Gleick's book to anyone interested in learning more about it.
--jrd
taiwanjohn: Actually, that reminds me of an anecdote from the first
That's odd. I replied a good hour ago, but for some reason my comment never showed up. Anyway, thank you. ;-)
I thought of one other useful meme from chaos theory: the notion of scale, which is particularly relevant for the global warming debate. A system may seem chaotic at one scale, while at a larger or smaller scale, patterns emerge from the randomness. (Fractals are patterns that repeat at larger or smaller scales.)
Misunderstanding this concept is what leads a lot of "TV weather" meteorologists to doubt climate change. They are in the business of predicting the weather, and they know as well as we do that their models are all but worthless for predicting weather more than a week in advance. Therefore, they say, there's no way we can predict what will happen in 20 years... etc..
Basically, they don't understand the difference between weather models and climate models. Climate scientists aren't trying to predict the weather at a particular pace and time (small scale), they are interested in the overall climate in a given span of years (large scale).
So next time you hear that canard from a TV weather "personality", ask them to explain the difference between climate science and weather prediction, and why they presume to criticize work that is outside their area of expertise.
--jrd
taiwanjohn: That's odd. I replied a good hour ago, but for
Perhaps it's a coincidence that Alabama and Mississippi populations reportedly have average IQs ranging from 85 to 90. That's an average according to one source, meaning half of the people surviving in Ol' Ms. are below 85 in IQ ! Also, consider the number of unproductive SS check receivers in Florida. Plus the fact that the worse it gets, the easier for a corrupt media to blame Obama and the Democrats for this disaster. If you want to thin the herd, this would be a good place to start. Not on IQ test: Do we have the best people managing our affairs or just the most rapacious "killer apes" .
Screengem: Perhaps it's a coincidence that Alabama and Mississippi populations reportedly
if humans can get to the point of a consciousness shift.. change our perceptions of ourselves and our nature, then perhaps we can survive... unless this gusher breaks open the earth, then all bets are off.
maybe the relief wells in process will work as planed and stop the flow...
the human race needs evolutionary growth .. as we think, so we are... and so it will be.
i hope we can make it.
William1950: if humans can get to the point of a consciousness
Why the world leaders are not stopping all Oil Companies from oil extraction in all oceans in general?
The water those companies are dumping into the Earth to pressurize the oil in the oil cavity where they are pumping from has accumulated collective pressure over 50 years by now and the oil gusher will never stop until they stop their millions of oil pumps all over the Earth.What is it worth to them to have toxic oceans all over the Earth?
Minotaurus: Why the world leaders are not stopping all Oil Companies
http://www.mikemalloy.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=67186 thnx to hottpotat0 for link:
Capitalism relies on a continuous flow of resources mostly intellectual, material, and currency. That is about to end.
In this case, it is more like the raging bull effect especially if that oil gets into that great ocean conveyor belt.
Will this disaster lead to more sustainable patterns of consumption and production?
My opinion is that humans have evolved to be smart in some ways but when it comes to a problem like this one, evidence indicates we may not have what it takes to change. Hope we do.
During other disasters, most of the nations on the planet have thrown in with everything they can to help. WHY!!!???
Why can we not ditch the regulations that give BP full control and take all the help we can get with solving this?!!! This is a Wordlwide emergency!!!
They obviously don't have a clue as to how to fix the damage they have wrought or stop it from continuing.
The president has a LOT of power. He wants to be seen as doing something?
An Executive Order telling BP they may continue well closure and cleanup but they must accept help from sources anywhere and everywhere. And then get together with the other presidents and kings of the world and ask them directly for ideas, assistance and cooperative efforts.
This is an American tragedy. But if we do not act quickly, it will be a tradgedy every country on this planet will suffer from. And all nations will mourn.
of the pathological killer." ---Albert Einstein
Though both yield to passion’s sway,
She who weakly sins for pay,
He who, strong, yet pays for Sin?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-modine/heres-what-obamas-next-sp_b_624939.html
I had not heard that entire quote, so thanks.
You're glossing-over quite a bit here... I know what you're talking about, because I've read a couple of books about chaos theory. But I don't think I've ever heard the word "attractor" in everyday conversation with others. Actually there's a fair amount of other chaos jargon in this article that is not explained.
Chaos Theory comes from the observation that a "simple and orderly" set of parameters and equations doesn't necessarily lead to a simple and orderly set of results. A system that LOOKS very simple, can lead to a very irregular and surprising set of results. And systems that appear to give random results can actually show patterns in the randomness -- places where the results can "bunch-together" -- those "bunches" are the attractors (aka: "strange attractor states") for the system.
An obvious example is traffic... the rules are pretty simple, but the results are far from uniform. Rush hour is clearly an "attractor" in this system. The "butterfly effect" could be any little thing like a bird or a cell-phone... anything that can distract a driver enough to cause a chain-reaction wreck.
The weather is another great example. The exact temperature at a precise location would be hard to predict more than a few hours in the future. But the average daily temperature for a whole region can be reasonably predicted several days in advance.
--jrd
It turned out that the computer stored the values internally with 4 decimal points of precision, but the printout only showed results to 2 decimal places. That miniscule difference in initial conditions led to vast swings in the outcome. (The butterfly effect.)
However, all of the varied results were still within the "normal" range for weather patterns. For example, precipitation changed widely for a given day or week, but remained nearly equal for seasonal average. (The Lorenz attractor.)
Ominously, as they started playing around with this discovery, they found that this early computer model seemed to default towards three possible attractor states: 1. Temperate climate (like we have now); 2. Ice-age climate; and 3. Hot-house climate (think Venus).
Chaos Theory is fascinating and illuminating. I highly recommend Gleick's book to anyone interested in learning more about it.
--jrd
I thought of one other useful meme from chaos theory: the notion of scale, which is particularly relevant for the global warming debate. A system may seem chaotic at one scale, while at a larger or smaller scale, patterns emerge from the randomness. (Fractals are patterns that repeat at larger or smaller scales.)
Misunderstanding this concept is what leads a lot of "TV weather" meteorologists to doubt climate change. They are in the business of predicting the weather, and they know as well as we do that their models are all but worthless for predicting weather more than a week in advance. Therefore, they say, there's no way we can predict what will happen in 20 years... etc..
Basically, they don't understand the difference between weather models and climate models. Climate scientists aren't trying to predict the weather at a particular pace and time (small scale), they are interested in the overall climate in a given span of years (large scale).
So next time you hear that canard from a TV weather "personality", ask them to explain the difference between climate science and weather prediction, and why they presume to criticize work that is outside their area of expertise.
--jrd
cause your numbers are wrong and misleading.
MA the highest 104
Mississippi the lowest with 94.
http://www.top50states.com/average-iq-score.html
maybe the relief wells in process will work as planed and stop the flow...
the human race needs evolutionary growth .. as we think, so we are... and so it will be.
i hope we can make it.
The water those companies are dumping into the Earth to pressurize the oil in the oil cavity where they are pumping from has accumulated collective pressure over 50 years by now and the oil gusher will never stop until they stop their millions of oil pumps all over the Earth.What is it worth to them to have toxic oceans all over the Earth?
$$$$$$$$$$$$'s ------- and lots of it!