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Dorian de Wind

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Actions of a Few Marines: Let's Not "Celebrate," Justify or Broad-Brush

Posted: 01/13/12 06:36 PM ET

About 18 months ago and in response to a piece, "Why It's Wrong to Equate Military Service With Heroism," which discussed the technical, logical and semantic reasons why our fighting men and women should not be collectively called "heroes," I wrote a piece claiming "Our Military: Yes, They Are All Heroes."

I started the article as follows:

I am one of those misguided, clueless people who, when writing about our military men and women slugging it out in Iraq and Afghanistan, engaged in combat, just trying not to get killed or maimed by an IED, or just driving a truck with supplies across the desert, instinctively and invariably refers to them as "heroes."

Then I went on to explain why I felt that way.

Little did I know the overwhelmingly negative reaction and feedback I would get in response to my assertion, in effect -- and in no uncertain terms -- affirming how misguided and clueless I am.

While a few of the writers argued -- perhaps validly so -- that by calling all soldiers "heroes" we diminish the value of that accolade when used to honor the "real heroes," and while I was not too surprised by the anti-war sentiments, I was truly shocked by the vastly negative -- at times shamefully offensive -- commentary about our troops.

Of course, "massacres" and "atrocities" committed by our troops in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan were brought up in order to discredit my claim. Some went even further and used such misdeeds to paint all our troops with the same broad brush.

This week, we see, hear and read about the disgusting, inexcusable act committed by a handful of Marines in Afghanistan.

And, again, one can see the reactions going off in some predictable directions.

Some condemn the act, but then attempt to use the broad-brush tactic to indict the entire Marine Corps, our entire military.

Those "some" may well include the same people who criticized me for calling all our troops "heroes."

You know what, I would rather inaccurately call all our troops heroes because of a few real heroes than call all our troops criminals because of a few real bad apples.

Some disapprove of the act but then attempt to list possible "extenuating circumstances," even justifications for such a heinous act.

You know what, having watched the video where the Marines are in absolutely no stress or combat situation, where they are joking and laughing about it, I cannot find any extenuating circumstance nor rhyme or reason for such a despicable act.

Some object to the act, but then mention some of the perhaps even more reprehensible and inhumane acts perpetrated by the enemy, by the terrorists.

You know what, two wrongs do not make a right, and even more important, when we sink to the level of our enemies, we risk becoming that which we are fighting against.

I will not even dignify those who "celebrate" this act by commenting on such.

I honestly believe that we Americans can and must start calling what is wrong by its name, without euphemisms, without excuses -- no ifs ands or buts about it.

In this case, by unequivocally condemning such an act, we not only do the right thing but we also show real honor and respect for the more than 200,000 proud Marines whose motto and way of life will always be Semper Fidelis.

 
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
YankeeCanuck
dog
01:30 AM on 01/16/2012
In our rush to prosecute the GWOT, many of our politicians promoted a comic book version of the enemy--characterising all members of a group or country as "bad guys", "evildoers" and their actions as "pure evil". We have gone to war in some cases without real evidence that the "enemy" indeed had intentions to do our country harm. Then, our military has been set up as superheroes who will do mortal combat with these "forces of evil". As in comic books, the superheroes sometimes commit depraved acts of revenge against the enemy--and it is considered justified. The enemy represents "pure evil" after all.
THe real world is much more complicated. And we have also harmed many innocent civilians who are not unlike us, really--who want to live and take care of their families.
A few of our "good guy" troops, the few who may lack maturity or character, interpret their role as comic book superheroes--and believe that anything goes because they are fighting evil.
Actions like this are a blueprint for spreading hatred of our country--and for creating more terrorists. We are supposed to be better than this.
Let's hope that this commentary from an experienced officer paints a clearer picture of the vast majority of our troops. And let's also hope that justice will be done in cases where our troops have crossed a line.
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mirrorwrlds
A world with infinite possibilities.
04:44 PM on 01/15/2012
It is reprehensible to blame all Marines for the actions of a few. It is just as reprehensible to try and justify the actions as tit for tat because the Taliban or our enemies have miss treated our fallen soldiers. When in American history have we ever condoned our military miss conduct? We have acted swiftly and fairly to those that abused the power our servicemen and women are sworn to uphold.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stoopid American
Trooth, justice, and the American way ...
02:21 PM on 01/15/2012
I agree that we should not criticize the Marine Corps for the actions of a few bad apples. We should all recognize the sacrifices that they make for all of us, and support them for it.

However, I think that the Corps at large has a tremendous obligation to demonstrate zero tolerance when Marines break the law. Desecration of the dead is clearly dishonorable and illegal under military law. Outrage is the proper response, as long as it is directed only against the perpetrators themselves, and as long as the Corps takes proper actions to sanction those who did it. The ball is in the Marine Corps court.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Dorian de Wind
03:25 PM on 01/15/2012
S...... American,

Your comments are some of the most objective and reasoned ones I have read in this thread.

Thank you

ps: I wish you would consider a different avatar. You are a very wise American
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stoopid American
Trooth, justice, and the American way ...
01:07 AM on 01/16/2012
Thanks - I will search out your articles and read through them. Sounds like we may have similar world views, at least on some things.

As to my avatar, well it's really meant to be ironic and not too serious. Americans are often viewed as not so intelligent in many other places in the world. I'm sort of suggesting that maybe not all of us fit that stereotype (although I do not consider myself to be the smartest person in the room).

Anyway, fanned.
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BigBearcatBill
This is the real Bearcat - a Binturong
03:31 AM on 01/15/2012
The saddest part of this that all members of the Armed Forces should keep in mind is that these type of demeaning and disrespectful acts can and probably will make an enemy even more determined and dangerous. They have done a disservice to themselves and their fellow soldiers, sailors and aviators by probably making their jobs harder fighting a more motivated enemy.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
MUDPUPPY
11:58 PM on 01/14/2012
The worst thing about what few marines did is the media sensationalist response that is amplifying the problems it will cause for our troops.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stoopid American
Trooth, justice, and the American way ...
02:24 PM on 01/15/2012
Sorry, but outrage is the proper response. And I would submit that the guys who desecrated the dead are the ones who caused the problems for their fellow soldiers, not the media.

I do think the Marines are serious about investigating this and applying proper military justice. So long as they do, the honor of the Corps will be preserved.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Joe Goforth
09:03 PM on 01/14/2012
Why are we in this pointless war? We will not win against the Taliban because one day we will leave and they will still be there. Our government created the environment which creates these sorts of problems in the first place- Ron Paul for sane foreign policy.
matt50
Every job isa selfportrait of the person who did i
07:22 PM on 01/14/2012
We ask these men and women to kill for our country, and then when you don't like the way they do it, they are crucified. This is a small slip in judgement in their lifes, and you want to hang them out to dry. Shame on you. Walk in their shoes for a day, then maybe you can judge, but if you did this, i'm sure you would not be judging. War should not be seen by the weak at heart, it's not a made for T.V. movie of the week, and the rules aren't always followed. Come home safe boys. Signed U.S. Navy vet
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
M Jeffrey
11:45 PM on 01/14/2012
And it is clear that you did not make war either and I bet you have never been in a war or armed conflict and probably not even a street fight. If you are a navy vet as you claim then it is worse as you should know very well why the actions of those marines was despicable and if they were not in an immoral war to begin with then they would have no need of a safe arrival at home as that is where they would be. Warmongers like you are a shameless breed.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stoopid American
Trooth, justice, and the American way ...
02:26 PM on 01/15/2012
"Walk in their shoes for a day, then maybe you can judge ..."

They will face military justice by fellow soldiers who have walked in their shoes, friend. As they should. Soldiers deserve our support but are not entitled to break military law. As a vet, you should know this.
matt50
Every job isa selfportrait of the person who did i
04:26 PM on 01/15/2012
Thanks for reply, I do know this, what you said is what I said in another comment, that they will be judged by their own, it' s not up to us sitting here in the comfort of our homes to judge these men for something we don't have all the facts on. And I'm not condoning what they did, I would not have done this, but it does happen, sometimes much worse. Many have different views on this, and are allowed to because we have rights in America, and much thanks for this should go to the U.S. military. I'm just saying that their entire lifes should not be ruined for a small lapse in judgement during war time. And by war standards, this in my opinion, is a small lapse in judgement.
Thanks again for reply, and I did get your point. F/F
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Gestas
Mountain Man
03:53 PM on 01/14/2012
Friedrich Nietzsche..wrote.." Be careful who you choose for an enemy, because thats who you will become most like....
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stemchek
Can't dance, too wet to plow. May as well comment.
02:49 PM on 01/14/2012
In Vietnam they cut off ears. In Afganistan they whizz on corpses of the people trying to kill them. We teach soldiers to hate, but within boundaries, and then play Mr. and Mrs. pious when they draw outside the lines. They are not pitiful. Our expectations are.
11:44 PM on 01/14/2012
I agree. This isnt a movie, and i is not pretty. But I am not going to get on them over it. We want our soldiers to be killers and diplomats, as the situation calls for. At the end of the day, they are trying to kill these people, and vice versa.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stoopid American
Trooth, justice, and the American way ...
02:27 PM on 01/15/2012
"They are not pitiful. Our expectatio­ns are."

Military law exists for a reason. It is not at all an unreasonable expectation to feel that soldiers comply with it. I get your point about training people to be killers and all that, but there is also a huge emphasis on the word 'honor'. Is that just a word?
bklynsparrow
creating reality from unreal things
03:28 PM on 01/16/2012
With all the military people I know, honor is not just a word. It's a way of life. My brother is a AF ret'd, Viet vet. I see in him that honor is far more than just a word. But I' do wonder. Will these young men be kicked out of the military? Or will the Marines given them a chance to redeem themselves? As heinous as their act was, I'm trying to put it into some kind of perspective, and I can only speak for myself as a civilian. I want to respect the fact they are volunteers, they are in a position of grave personal danger generally, their lives are on the line and they are fighting an enemy who demonized and dehumanized. And I understand that is part of soldiery. so i really don't know quite how to feel about it. I feel those soldiers deserve some measure of my compassion and support, as well as my condemnation for their actions. How do I weigh one agaist the other?
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AirForceZoomer
Erin Go Bragh.
12:55 PM on 01/14/2012
Maybe the term hero does not properly recognize the service of those serving in the military but certainly 'patriotic' does because even less than one percent of the entire USA population serves. Heroic by far does describe those looking down the wrong end of a weapon or peripheral military risks, steadfastly, and surviving with the mission accomplished, even, unaccomplished.
But the real subject is our marines desecrating their enemies bodies, not physically dismembering, or such . Shameful indeed, but understandable when we look where we should to remember we (the nation) train our men and women to do the most heinous of an human act -- killing another human -- with malice.
I regret our marines doing what they did, yet I do not immediately withdraw in horror and pious prancing. No, I just know what should now be done.
We put our military guys and gals into situations where sometimes shameful conduct afterward is the norm, such as the pissing incident. No amount of training, indoctrination, or disciplinary activity will prevent shameful incidents while winding down from combat. Authoritative action must be, but weighed with compassion in an atmosphere of understanding and guidance intended to restore emotional stability to the men................to fight again............heroically.
Semper fi Marines.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
guitargeorge1964
Independent!!!
12:08 PM on 01/14/2012
I served in the Marines from 1984-1991. I served in Desert Storm with Task Force Poppa Bear and Task Force Ripper. I saw a lot of the bodies of Iraqi soldiers and can honestly say that I never saw anyone treat them with anything but respect.
However, I have been asked on Facebook from the guys I served with and from friends who never served about my opinion on this. I said that knowing myself I can't imagine ever doing something like this but I was not in their shoes so I don't know what they were thinking.
I think that because so few Americans actually serve anymore that people have a warped view of who our military is. Everyone seems to think it's either 'Saving Private Ryan' or 'Full Metal Jacket'. The reality is that the Marines I served with are just like everyone else and have the same faults as anyone else. I'd never question anyone who served Patriotism but I definitely knew some Marines who would probably do something like this. And I knew a lot more Marines who would never even think about doing it.
I was taught something in NCO School that I wrote in my notes, which I still have. "Some Marines in Vietnam created more enemies than they killed". That's all about how we treat the indigenous population, and their perception of us.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Stoopid American
Trooth, justice, and the American way ...
02:29 PM on 01/15/2012
Thanks for your service.

I agree that soldiers are just people too. We should not disdain the entire Corps because a few Marines broke military law. So long as the perpetrators face appropriate military justice, the right outcome is achieved.

The problem will be if the Corps does not handle this correctly. So far, it seems they are doing the right thing.
11:05 AM on 01/14/2012
We should not be so foolish to believe that with the racism that dominates our judicial system, the republican party using racism as a winning strategy for the last forty years and our yahoo culture that uses racist slurs against any country that was intelligent enough to oppose our stupid war in Iraq that we would not have some soldiers with racist attitudes. The most positive sign I see is the overwheming support and money being given to Ron Paul by members of the military but unfortunately there is little chance that our chicken-hawk politicians in both parties are listening to these people.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
abaker997
11:49 PM on 01/15/2012
Freedom comes with a price. You don't get peace just by hanging up a sign. Unfortunately, there are bad people in the world who do bad things. We don't get peace by simply ignoring them or pretending they don't exist.

"I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."--Elie Wiesel
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
becky bradshaw
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth
10:31 AM on 01/14/2012
"There's always that need to limit collateral damage," said Capt. Jonathan Bradley, the officer in charge of the school (scout sniper school at Quantico Marine Corps Base). "We don't want CNN reporting that we leveled villages. That's not advantageous. Snipers do provide a precision capability." Still, even in some military circles, snipers are outcasts. Though attached to units, Marine snipers are highly independent and in combat will operate in small teams, far in front of the regular infantry. "A lot of people say: 'Oh, that's dirty warfare. Come out and fight like a man,' " Bristol said (Lt. Col. George H. Bristol, who commanded sniper teams during the U.S. intervention in Somalia in 1993). "In my opinion, it's about being the ultimate man."

"While every Marine is a marksman, only a select few can be a sniper, because it's a lot different mental makeup," Bristol said. "You certainly have more of the mind of the hunter than the bar brawler." That is evident within the cinder-block walls of the school, a single-story building near rifle ranges deep within the 60,000-acre Quantico reservation. One wall of the classroom is decorated with a painting showing a cigar-chomping boar Marine, armed with a rifle and sword, holding up a skull dripping blood. It is titled, "Scout Sniper -- Hunters of Gunmen." Animal skulls line the shelves. A poster carries a sniper slogan: "Death from afar."

http://www.historicalmilitaria.com/USMCNews/Snipers.html
09:34 AM on 01/14/2012
"You know what, I would rather inaccurately call all our troops heroes because of a few real heroes than call all our troops criminals because of a few real bad apples."

Wrong on both counts. Like general society, most of them are middle of the pack, trying to do their jobs. Some are bad people who commit crimes. Some go above and beyond the call of duty, without ever being recognized for it. These are the heroes. Donning a uniform, surviving boot camp, and being dropped in the desert doesn't make you a hero, or a criminal either. Stop with the black and white.
05:57 AM on 01/14/2012
War is war. A marine is a marine for life. People who sit on thier and do nothing but cry have never seen a friend shot or blown up. That have not seen what is done to thier fellow marines by the enemies. DO some marine do what these marines did, yes they do. They are not heroe they are marines. You that sit a home and cry have never carried your friends off the battle field or loaded the green bags. War is war, either fight it or do not fight it. It is not a game with your nice little rules it is life or death. To take a life is easy to watch a friend die changes you.
11:17 AM on 01/14/2012
I was a soldier. I served. And I take serious offence with your comments. DUTY, HONOR, COUNTRY. They are more than words. They are the core of the American soldier. I believe in those words. These men did NOT do their duty. They did NOT do it with honor, and they did NOT serve their country well. There ARE rules in war, and they are drilled into you from your first day in basic. If we have no honor, we are no better than thugs. That is what gives America a moral position to project force into situations which require a response. These men should be punished to the fullest extent for actions unbecoming. (But ONLY them. Do not demonize all soldiers for the deficiencies of a few) The vast majority of soldiers believe in what we did/do, because we are the "good guys". If we become indistinguishable from the "bad guys", we are simply gangsters with bigger guns than them.
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abbienormal
What hump?
11:47 AM on 01/14/2012
Fan #1
01:09 PM on 01/15/2012
My son spent three tours in Iraq and now there. He has told me of what they found done to our soldiers and now one is crying about that. As far as I am conserned they should have made that area a glass factory.