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Dr. Judith Rich

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Ubuntu and Forgiveness: Keys to Living an Abundant Life

Posted: 08/29/2012 9:25 am

Every human being who ever walked the earth has his or her own collection of beliefs, attitudes, opinions, behaviors and stories that speak to their struggle for self-realization and to their disbelief in themselves. We all harbor beliefs that affirm our smallness and deny our greatness and thus come up short in recognizing and living from our highest and greatest selves.

But if I were required to name a person who, for all his human foibles, approaches a state of self-actualization, which Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs defines as "what a man can be he must be," I would nominate Nelson Mandela. This is not to say that Mandela has lived a spotless life. Far from it. But in spite of all, or perhaps because of all that makes up his own story and the story of his people, Nelson Mandela stands out as one who has achieved a high state of consciousness on the planet today.

Looking at the context from which Mandela was shaped, it's hard to imagine that he could have turned out any other way, for he comes out of the African tradition of ubuntu -- "I am what I am because of who we all are." If we want to get a clue and catch a glimpse of what's possible for humanity, Nelson Mandela would be a good person to study.

For him to forgive those who imprisoned him for 27 years, he had to know and believe something that most of the world has failed to grasp. For him to emerge from prison and to state: "As I walked out the door toward my freedom I knew that if I did not leave all the anger,
hatred and bitterness behind I would still be in prison." He had to be connected to a belief about the true nature of humanity and thus his own. He had to be committed to living that belief, undeterred by the events that resulted in his imprisonment.

What was that belief? I can't say for sure, but I suspect it had something to do with the philosophy of ubuntu. Last week's post: "Embracing the Spirit of Ubuntu," included the following story told by Mandela:

A traveler through a country would stop at a village and he didn't have to ask for food or for water. Once he stops, the people give him food, entertain him. That is one aspect of Ubuntu, but it will have various aspects. Ubuntu does not mean that people should not enrich themselves. The question therefore is: Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?

In the consciousness of ubuntu, when met with conflict or harm, forgiveness is the very path one must travel to know freedom. Therefore, for Mandela, forgiveness was not optional. It was the only way forward. It was the only way for him to reclaim his own life and by so doing show the way for others to reclaim theirs. There was nothing to do but forgive those who imprisoned him and perpetuated the system of apartheid against his people.

This idea remains a difficult one for many, even the most enlightened, to embrace. To forgive the one who hurt or betrayed you seems like just another betrayal, a selling out, a giving up. And yet, just the opposite is true.

Forgiving an action is not the same thing as condoning it. In forgiveness you are not saying that what happened was OK. But instead of seeking revenge or retribution or needing to be right, through forgiveness you are choosing from a higher consciousness than the one who betrayed you.

For example: In a state of non-forgiveness, we close our hearts in order to protect ourselves from any more hurt or pain. In this state we're cut off from feeling love, not only for the person who hurt us, but for ourselves as well. Our belief in separation hardens us and builds the walls even higher.

To forgive requires a higher consciousness. It requires knowing a greater truth about the nature of reality. Forgiveness opens the door to the heart and allows love to return. To forgive means "To give as before." When you forgive the very one you think betrayed your innocence, something greater is unleashed and abundance flows into the opening. Forgiveness is a recognition of our ubuntu nature, which is the truth of who we are.

Ubuntu tells a story about humanity that allows us to see the bigger picture. And here, Mandela makes an important distinction that is worthy of taking notice. "Ubuntu does not mean that people should not enrich themselves." But he also cautions, "Are you going to do so in order to enable the community around you to be able to improve?"

This is a key distinction, for it requires a consciousness of abundance and generosity from which comes the knowledge there is more than enough to go around. In the consciousness of ubuntu, one's self-interest is not separate from that of the greater whole. Neither is one's self-delusion. Enrichment is inclusive. All are beneficiaries. But so, then, does victim consciousness and withheld love impact the whole in equally powerful ways.

When we empower others in the spirit of ubuntu, we expand our definition of who we are. The sense of "I-ness" doesn't stop at our skin. We are more than our biology. In the act of going beyond our old boundaries we are free to become the person we came to the planet to be, and thus realize more of our own potential.

The very willingness to take this kind of stand in the world, the world right where you already are, requires that you see yourself as abundant, and from this abundance naturally flows a generosity. This generosity cannot be stopped. It cannot be impeded. Generosity flows from abundance like a river, with all the force of nature behind it. And thus, your ubuntu nature is unleashed.

The work begins with you. Living in an abundant universe characterized by infinite possibility, doesn't it stand to reason that what is required of us is get out of our own way so that we can be available for the abundance that is already there? Abundance already is and is freely available for all who are willing to receive it. You don't need to grasp, strive or fight for it. You only need to receive it.

Maybe the only forgiveness necessary is self-forgiveness. Forgive yourself for forgetting the truth of who you are and for believing in the illusion of separation. Remember the words of Nelson Mandela:

"As I walked out the door toward my freedom I knew that if I did not leave all the anger,
hatred and bitterness behind I would still be in prison."

There is much more to discover on this topic. I welcome your thoughts and comments here and/or come pay a visit to my personal blog and website at Rx For The Soul. And while you're at it, Become A Fan and be notified when new posts appear. For personal contact, reach me at judith@judithrich.com.

I'll be away for the next couple of weeks as I devote time to the development of a new workshop. See you back here in mid-September.

Ubuntu, and blessings on the path.

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greenstraws
I am me not you.
02:00 AM on 09/04/2012
Very nice article.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Zaida Adams
11:51 PM on 08/31/2012
The beauty of Ubuntu =
1. Forgiveness, 2. Salvation, 3. Relationship, 4. Abandonment, 5. Distress, 6. Triumph and 7. Reunion
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Zaida Adams
11:39 PM on 08/31/2012
Dear Doctor Rich,

My eyes were lead to your article because that word "Ubuntu" struck a chord in me, and I want to know it's meaning, deeply.

I have been to Mandela's jail cell. It is the size of a shoe box, tiny. It was his home for 27 years. He missed seeing his children grow and being a part of their lives. His soul could have been suppressed and dwindled. His daily escape from it would be to join his inmates and chip at the salty, blinding rocks on that island while the jail keepers pelted him. Chipping rock is a great analogy. He envisioned chipping that rock as him chipping away at injustice toward a better humanity. What amazed me too how he walked out of that cell. With dignity, grace, and strength. Salvation. Ubuntu is the difference between a good man and a soul of greatness. Lamar sabasthani. None is forsaken. All are forgiven.
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
10:26 AM on 09/01/2012
Hello Zaida,

I love this:

"What amazed me too how he walked out of that cell. With dignity, grace, and strength. Salvation. Ubuntu is the difference between a good man and a soul of greatness. Lamar sabasthani. None is forsaken. All are forgiven."

Yes, exactly! Mandela shows the possibility for each one of us, in a way as did Christ on the cross, imploring God to "forgive them for they know not what they do." Forgiveness is the path to salvation, all are already forgiven. And thus, all the good that is awaits our embrace of it.

Thanks so much for adding this perspective to our topic.

Blessings and ubuntu,
Judith
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Zaida Adams
11:12 AM on 09/01/2012
Forgiveness is probably one of the hardest challenges we could ever face. There are some things I picture that I know it would be just about impossible to forgive for. Yet there are those who can. Like the man who forgave the killer of his daughter. I don't know how he did it, but I am in awe of his capability.  I'm so glad that you are here, Dr Judith. You are a very good, kind and generous person, giving much of yourself to others, and you are a natural healer of the soulful kind.  Blessings and ubuntu to you as well, lovely lady.Zaida.
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Lawson Meadows
Plant in your kids, the seeds of greatness!
02:16 AM on 08/30/2012
Dear Judith,

Will miss you for the next two weeks and best of luck with your workshop venture! Will be here when you return.

Lawson
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
09:40 AM on 08/30/2012
Thanks Lawson!

I'm also taking time off to be with Cara as she is recovering from her surgery. She is still in a lot of pain and discomfort, but hopefully, a few days spent with her best friend, filled with love and laughter will help the healing process.

Have a wonderful Labor Day weekend. See you in mid-Sept.

Much love,
Judith
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onethot
D.I.P.
01:08 PM on 08/30/2012
Good on you !!
11:55 AM on 09/01/2012
Please send Cara my well wishes.
11:57 PM on 08/29/2012
Hi Judith,

I have such admiration for Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu, as well. Both men are inspirational and transformational figures who exemplify the spirit of ubuntu and forgiveness. In the Archbishop’s book, “No Future Without Forgiveness”, he recalls a particularly poignant scene from the day of Nelson Mandela’s inauguration. Arriving at the ceremony, Mandela was approached by the various heads of the security forces, the police, and the correctional services, who saluted him and proceeded to escort him as their head of state. Tutu wrote, “It was poignant because only a few years previously he had been their prisoner and would have been considered a terrorist to have been hunted down... He invited his white jailer to attend his inauguration as an honored guest, the first of many gestures he would make in his spectacular way, showing his breathtaking magnanimity and willingness to forgive…This man, who had been vilified and hunted down as a dangerous fugitive and incarcerated for nearly three decades, would soon be transformed into the embodiment of forgiveness and reconciliation. Those who had hated him would, most of them, be eating out of his hand – the prisoner become President, in time to be admired by the whole world in an extraordinary outpouring of adulation and hero worship – the world’s most admired and revered head of state.”

For the record: All you Wisdom Well Dwellers are way up there on my “admiration meter”, too. Thanks for the inspiration!

Love,
Sharon
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
09:53 AM on 08/30/2012
Thank you so much for sharing this quote on Mandela, Sharon. Beautiful!

Prisoner to President...... sounds like a good book title, doesn't it? One's man's terrorist is another man's hero. It really puts it all into perspective.

Wishing you well on your new journey of empty-nestness. Are you fluffing that nest and preparing it for new adventures? It would be interesting to do a series of paintings of nests and see what emerges. Or write about it. Just a thought......

Happy Labor Day weekend! Ubuntu,
Judith
11:27 AM on 08/30/2012
Hey Judith,

Thanks for the well-wishes. Right now I'm fluffing that nest to prepare for Steve's return over the holiday weekend. I'll be whipping up some of his favorite dishes while he's home - a batch of jambalaya and a peach pie are definitely on the menu! Beyond this weekend, who knows what's in store for the Shaw nest? (One thing's for sure: I intend to find out!)

Wishing you good, productive energy as you prep for the new workshop, and hoping your time with Cara hits the "sweet spot" of your souls...

Much love,
Sharon
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Lawson Meadows
Plant in your kids, the seeds of greatness!
11:11 PM on 08/29/2012
Judith,

Forgiveness is more about me and less about one who offends me through thought or action. To forgive is to ensure I have the opportunity to pursue my life’s potentials, unimpaired by negativity’s baggage and the past's sour thoughts bleeding into now, and eventually into future now’s. Therein is love’s availability; being able to accept and give love is more valuable than harboring ill-will toward those who affected physical pain, mental dissonance, or emotional distress and thereby gain control over me for a moment or more. Maybe this is a simplistic view, but forgiving gives me back power and control.

In a wider arena, as you said, the inclusive nature of both positive and negative “enrichment” is affective; the value of increasing positive potential’s abundance should be obvious. But, there is the self to be considered.

I have wasted, even squandered many years; falling short of grasping the next rung on too many ladders. The need for forgiveness of self is blatantly obvious, so that I can climb not only Maslow’s “ladder” but the ladders of personal choice, potentials, and that thing within most of us calling forth a wish or need or desire to expand beyond limited influence to affect positive change in others along the way, as long as the way continues… even when we don’t.

Lawson
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
10:20 AM on 08/30/2012
Dear Lawson,

You said, "I have wasted, even squandered many years; falling short of grasping the next rung on too many ladders." Consider, my friend, the possibility that those years were neither wasted nor squandered, but instead, served a greater purpose that might not have been obvious at the time.

Looking back, what actually evolved during that time that then allowed you to find the way forward, upward, or maybe even backwards? Self-forgiveness even includes our tendency to judge ourselves for not doing X when we should have been doing Y. You needed whatever time it took to make it to the next rung.

In the end, maybe it's not even about climbing ladders but more about shedding the idea that there are ladders to climb and knowing that right where we are is the place to be. Including now.

Love and blessings to you my friend,
Judith
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Zaida Adams
12:02 AM on 09/01/2012
This is such a great and pleasing thread to read. I should have come here sooner. I am glad you are here.
10:53 PM on 08/29/2012
To echo yours and Mandela’s points, non-forgiveness binds one to the pain or sorrow. That sorrow remains until you release it. It seems forgiveness is somehow coupled with vulnerability? But there is such autonomy that comes with forgiveness. The soul is free to care for other challenges that await. I know of souls with bins waiting to be emptied by forgiving. I guess if you collect one it becomes easier to fill your life with circumstance of not forgiving.
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Lawson Meadows
Plant in your kids, the seeds of greatness!
02:03 AM on 08/30/2012
JD&C,

I believe you are exactly right: Many if not most, do couple being forgiving with being vulnerable. I wonder how much of the "hoarding" in their bins of pain is prompted and supported by the need to feel right about the expression of righteous anger toward another person? Seems to me it is easier rather than harder to stoke the coals of indignation than apply the balm of forgiveness… If so, which then leaves the person most vulnerable, the easy way or the one that requires effort?

I have asked people about this... mostly in this form: How is your anger over some lingering memory of a past transgression serving you now? The only answer of substance was. "It makes me feel better!" but when asked, "How?" There was no definitive response.

I believe a more accurate statement would be: “It makes me feel better… so they say!” which has become part of our culture’s undercurrent of folk wisdom – whatever that is – and a reflection of the level of ignorance about not just what is important, but also what actually works!

Unfortunately, too many of your “bin” people will continue traveling their road looking back, being mad, and never hearing the clear call of their soul’s purpose, and in the end, most will be left with that oh so bitter taste of regret.

Lawson
12:01 AM on 08/31/2012
I am one who can look back at a time of holding on to pain because I didn't want to be vulnerable. And yes, at the time, "it made me feel better!"Oh what a prison that was. Man, life's too short to hold on to garbage!
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
10:02 AM on 08/30/2012
Hello J&C,

Potent imagery! I think if people could actually "see" what they do to themselves, and I certainly have been among their ranks in the past, through their unforgiveness, if they could see the way they burden themselves with the baggage of the past, how the pain of holding on literally becomes embedded in the body, they would surely know that letting go is the only way forward. And forgiveness is the path to letting go. Beginning with self.

It is sacred work. It is humbling work. It is beautiful work. It is the journey of evolution from our caterpillarness to our butterflyness. We are all beautiful butterflies, unique and made to fly. That is our ultimate destiny.

Sweetness and light to you this day. Ubuntu,
Judith
12:02 AM on 08/31/2012
Ubuntu for your time away!
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upthewazooforus
American, Veteran, Independent .
07:56 PM on 08/29/2012
Hi to you, Dr. Judith, and all at the well.

In regards to forgiveness, here's something I like to do. Of course, I can stand my ground, and argue something out, but what's REALLY fun sometimes, is to just say, "OK, if you HAVE to be right, then you are, see ya'". It frustrates those who just spoiling for an argument, which is really what some people want to begin with. You know that old saying, "Never wrestle with a pig in the mud. You just get muddy, and the pig likes it.".

OK, so maybe it isn't exactly the point to the article, but it certainly is entertaining, and does go with Mandela's thoughts, which are spot on. Putting aside conflict, inwardly or outwardly, is the important part. It's no shame to walk away (forgive). What's the worst that can happen, you feel good about yourself?

Take care all my friends. I hope you enjoy your Labor Day weekend and have a chance to recharge your internal power sources. My best to all.

And a note to the Shaw's: So happy for you in regard to Steve and his entry to college. I recall sending my son off to college, and how thrilled that he was on his way to adult life. Congrats and best wishes to you all.

Love and Peace,
Paul
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SShaw490
A man hears what he wants and disregards the rest
08:47 PM on 08/29/2012
I love that "never wrestle a pig in the mud, you get muddy and the pig likes it." Reminds me of "Never argue with a fool. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." And you have the best idea - if they have to be right, let 'em. Probably nobody ever listens to them anyway.

And thanks so much for thinking of Steve. We really miss him. For a while I couldn't go into his room, it was too empty. Now, I can't go into the garage and look at his motocross bike. Well, that's not because I miss him but because he crashed it into a tree before he left and I have to fix the darned thing. He's the only kid I know who can crush a radiator into a tree and never even fall down.
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Lawson Meadows
Plant in your kids, the seeds of greatness!
02:11 AM on 08/30/2012
Hi Sam,

You are not fooling me... you will love fixing the bike: a connection is a connection is a connection.

But, I too remember the sting of departure upon depositing both my kids at college.... it's a parent thing.


Here is my 2 cents on arguments: "The best way to argue with a drunk is with your hat... grab it and leave," which is also the best way to fight one! :)

Lawson
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upthewazooforus
American, Veteran, Independent .
11:48 PM on 08/30/2012
Hi Sam, good to hear all is well. It figures that the adjustment to Steve being gone takes some time. My son was 17 when he started college, and on his first day, he was hit broadside on the way to school, and ended up spending a few days in the hospital. So much for that first semester. He's 31 now, and has a Master's in Computer Science. It took some time, but I did get to see him off to school.

Sorry, but I have to kind of chuckle about the rad on his bike. Having suffered my own parts destruction, on many occasions, it seems there is no limit to the many different ways we can destroy inventory.

Well, friend, take care, and all the best. Enjoy the winding down process, it's great. Have a good weekend, and be safe.
Paul
12:33 AM on 08/30/2012
Dear Paul,

As always, your posts warm my heart and put a smile on my face...

I know Sam already responded, but I also want to say thanks for thinking of us as we begin this new chapter. Steve seems to be doing really well, and we're adjusting to the "empty nest" one day at a time. Since he's only three hours away, he plans to come home on weekends pretty frequently. (At least, that's what he says right now!) Anyway, he'll be home for the long Labor Day weekend, so we're all really looking forward to that!

Give our best to your family, and hope all of you have a wonderful Labor Day weekend, as well.

Sending love and peace your way,
Sharon
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upthewazooforus
American, Veteran, Independent .
11:52 PM on 08/30/2012
Hi Shar, thanks for the kind words. I can't really add more than what I told Sam, it's a wonderful time to just sit back, and watch Steve become a man. I enjoyed that process with my son. Lots of fond memories.

Take care, and my best to you all.
Paul
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onethot
D.I.P.
06:14 PM on 08/29/2012
"Abundance already is and is freely available for all who are willing to receive it. You don't need to grasp, strive or fight for it. You only need to receive it.

Maybe the only forgiveness necessary is self-forgiveness. Forgive yourself for forgetting the truth of who you are and for believing in the illusion of separation."

The entire article spoke to me; however, the above phrases are what stood out the 'loudest.' Each morning, I need to remind myself of this and many times throughout the day... and I can be lax and drift back into ' false" beliefs and perceptions and that is when I have to love and forgive myself the most because when falling off of a bicycle for example, I can wallow in self pity, self condemnation, or I can get right back up and begin anew.... like the Duracell bunny.. keep going on and on focused on the vision of who' I' am.. who 'we' are... ubuntu nature... LOVE.

In the spirit of oneness......
01:00 AM on 08/30/2012
Hi Pat,

You are definitely not alone in this regard. So often I find myself needing to be reminded of certain truths I tend to forget, ignore, or even deny. And you are so right about having a choice in how you respond. I think of myself as the "Do Over Queen", and thankfully the people who matter most in my life are very gracious toward me as I learn to extend some grace to myself.

Wishing you abundance and sending love your way,
Sharon
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onethot
D.I.P.
03:08 PM on 08/31/2012
Hi Sharon,
Always pleased to 'see' you. Thanks for the much appreciated support. Love what you say here about extending grace to yourself.

So you are cooking up a storm in preparation for Steve's homecoming this weekend.
Jambalaya... yum!

Here's wishing you all a most joyous and fufilling weekend.. with many more to come.

Much love to you, Sam and Steve..
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
10:31 AM on 08/30/2012
Dear Pat (and Sharon),

Yes, yes....... it is too, too easy to forget these truths. Life and the world is laden with so many opportunities to fall back asleep. Staying awake requires a daily vigilance. It's a practice. That's the beauty of community, where people remind and inspire one another to stay on track.
It's not easy by any means...... unless it is! :-)

I so love and appreciate you and the other "members", self identified, self invited, self appointed, of this community. I am fed by the spirit of oneness that you bring and you inspire in others.

Ubuntu,
Judith
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SShaw490
A man hears what he wants and disregards the rest
03:43 PM on 08/29/2012
I never watch TV, but for some reason I was watching "Law and Order" about a week ago, and the story about about a father of a murder victim killing the perpetrator in cold blood. At the end of the show, one of the characters said, "The problem is, 'an eye for an eye' eventually leaves the whole world blind."

I don't think I could find the depth of character to forgive like Mandela did - or many other dissidents and falsely accused people.

Mamo Wolde was one of the great marathoners in the 70s, winning the gold medal in the 1968 Olympic marathon and the bronze medal in Munich in 1972. Later, in his home of Ethiopia, he was imprisoned and accused of a crime he didn't commit. The IOC and Amnesty International, after years of effort, finally got him to trial in which he was convicted of a trumped-up but lesser charge and sentenced to 6 years, and then released because he'd been awaiting trial for 9. Just a few months after his release, he died of liver cancer. Thankfully, his wife and children were granted asylum in our country, and Wolde was given a hero's burial in Addis Abbaba.

How does one forgive something like that? Maybe by realizing that the only way Mamo Wolde is free is if his wife and family remember his spirit running through the streets of Munich or Mexico City, not being locked up.
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SShaw490
A man hears what he wants and disregards the rest
08:51 PM on 08/29/2012
Sharon just told me the "eye for an eye..." quote was from Gandhi. So much for my sudden admiration for TV writers. And I now have to admit to being an uncultured Texan. I don't know the difference between TV and Gandhi.
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
10:39 AM on 08/30/2012
It's an easy mistake to make, especially since the source wasn't quoted on TV.

I think you're right, though, about Mamo Wolde and his family. He already is free. It's their burden to unload. If they carry anger and resentment and seek revenge or retribution, they will only perpetuate the hatred that was used against them and their loved one.

To forgive is a very high state of consciousness. It requires that we know a larger truth about what appears to be. Jesus knew this when he implored his Father to "forgive them for they know not what they do." He was pointing the way for us all. One doesn't need to be a Christian to accept this truth.

Sending love and blessings your way. Enjoy this weekend with Steve. Give him my love!
Judith
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01:59 PM on 08/29/2012
"Forgiving an action is not the same thing as condoning it. In forgiveness you are not saying that what happened was OK. But instead of seeking revenge or retribution or needing to be right, through forgiveness you are choosing from a higher consciousness than the one who betrayed you."

Yes, forgiveness requires learning. It's a learning process. Which means a lot of things. For example, that it's usually possible.

But it also means that it's hard. And that it can take a while and takes an effort.

Which is important because resources may not be available or forthcoming. And that's where the notion that forgiveness is a repeat betrayal originates. I fully agree that forgiveness is worth the effort whenever it can be done. But whether it can be done depends on circumstance. It's not always possible to do the required leap.

Which is why it remains wrong to wrong others, no matter what the powers of forgiveness.

It's true that the need to forgive inspires learning and higher learning. But we don't know whether there are limits to that process.
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Dr. Judith Rich
Because life's too short to wear tight shoes.
10:44 AM on 08/30/2012
Hello DOA,

"I fully agree that forgiveness is worth the effort whenever it can be done. But whether it can be done depends on circumstance. It's not always possible to do the required leap."

I would add, "or so it seems." But it could only seem impossible from a state of non-forgiveness, couldn't it? Until one is open to forgiving, circumstances will dictate whether or not it's possible.

I would argue that it's always possible. It's a matter of consciousness and a willingness to break down the barriers that prevent one from seeing the truth. Yes, that's not always easy. In fact, based on results, it can take a lifetime or longer! Or not. It might only take an instant, a nano-second. It happens according to our consciousness and the beliefs that flow out of it.

"It's all in our mind" is actually closer to the truth. Someone said the longest journey a person can ever take is the one from mind to heart. What if they are one and the same? Just asking.....

Be well my friend. Ubuntu,
Judith
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03:27 PM on 08/30/2012
I certainly hope that it's always possible, and I have no evidence to the contrary. It's just that I'd rather not rely on it.