Eight-Hundred-Year-Old Jong Responds to Callow Youth Taibbi

One of the great things about being eight-hundred years old is the sense of perspective it gives. Not as old as Sappho or as old as Herodotus nor Aesop but old enough to see boy wonders like you come and go.

So I ask you: What exactly is the point of talking about body deformity rather than ideas? We live in a time when great chunks of Antarctica are floating off into the sea, raising sea-level beyond what scientists predicted even a few years ago; when people are being tortured despite our heritage of the Magna Carta and the Constitution. How does it serve us for you to take cheap shots about age, looks, body fat or any other physical characteristic of men and women?

It's the easiest form of ridicule. It takes little wit and much malice. Plato was ugly. Aesop was a hunchback and slave, Sappho was swarthy and dark -- but who cares? Bodies rot. Ideas can change the world.

I love your tirade about how much malice you've spat at male politicians as well as female. Congratulations. You are an equal opportunity insulter. But insults are not arguments.

I am sure you've never read my books or you wouldn't be echoing the most vulgar and simplistic book chatters in calling me "a sex novelist." Besides, what is wrong with sex or novels? Nothing in my book. Your writing smacks of ignorance and insecurity. You lean on insults because ideas evade you. Propaganda often relies on physical mockery. Remember the stereotypical images of Jews the Nazis circulated? The hooked nose, the thick lips, the swarthy complexion, the protuberant eyes? None of these things can undo the genius of Sigmund Freud or the many other geniuses banished by the Nazis. Similar caricatures were used against African-Americans. And against women. It's a very low form of discourse. You don't even have to know how to draw.

If you were my writing student, I'd challenge your reliance on physical mockery and ask you to find better ways of arguing your points. I'd try to engage your brain not your spleen.

As for my age, I love being eight-hundred years old and still here.

Related:
Matt Taibbi: Erica Jong Rolls Out Every Liberal Cliche in Existence

Previously:
Erica Jong: Misogyny, Momism and Militarism
Matt Taibbi Responds: Erica Jong Thinks I Want to Do My Mother

Comments

[SEQUOIABISON]

Sorry Erica you lost your intellectual creditability when you decided to support Hillary based on the singular fact that she is a woman.

[YellerDawg]

intellectual creditability? What is that? Since you're so intellectual and all.

[clevelandchick]

Erica,

Hillary has given both men and women a many many reasons not to vote for her that have nothing to do with her gender, body or looks. She votes with corporatists (the bankruptcy bill), she voted against the ban on the use of clusterbombs in civilian areas (for her Defense contractor buddies), she voted for the Iraq invasion strictly out of political expedience, and her campaign operates right out of the Karl Rove handbook. The 3AM fear-mongering ad, the "fake news" ad in my state lying about Obama on NAFTA, lying about Obama on choice, surrogates labeling Obama as a Muslim, releasing photos of Obama in African garb, and so on and so on.

Many of us are well capable of overlooking a person's physical "flaws", but it would seem that those who support Hillary Clinton are all too willing to overlook her character flaws. I don't care what gender a candidate is, I care what kind of person the candidate is.

[ChimpmasterDJ]

Perhaps, dear Erica, if YOU had "engaged your brain rather than your spleen", this entire exchange would not be taking place, hmmm?

You know, Erica, you have become positively "Bushian" in your irrational, emotional, resolutely fact-ignoring support of Hillary Clinton. But - if this can reassure you - you are certainly not alone in this bizarre mental pathology that is sweeping across a certain demographic in this country. One of the consequences, dear Erica, will please you no end, I am certain. You will, no doubt, seize upon the inevitable backlash - the subconscious reflex-like attitude towards white women of a certain age, viewing them irrational and dangerously disconnected from reality and emotionally incapable of exercising good judgment - as the evidence of this all-pervasive misogyny that you hysterically trumpet as the reason for which your execrable candidate is NOT being handed a coronation. You will feel you were right all along, even as you help foment this so-called misogyny.

[KarenZipdrive]

Unlike Matt Taibbi, I've actually heard of Erica Jong and have read her books since she began writing them.
Her reflections on his childish tirades are in my opinion, accurate.
I understand all this GenX resentment, though. I was the same way when I was a kid: petulant, know it all, insulting, judgmental and intolerant of anyone over 30.
So? Little Matt doesn't want to vote for a "flabby old lady." Fine, he should vote for whomever he wants.
But he doesn't have to be a dick about it.

[Titonwan]

Martin Lawrence "like a little pouch". Does that count?

[leftcoastliberal]

Ms. Jong's Hillary-is­-a-victim-­of-sexism column is disproved by the facts (Taibbi mocks everyone's physical appearance) so she switches arguments, now she's against looksism. She's certainly right that mocking physical imperfection is childish, but if she had one iota of integrity she'd acknowledge that her original point was dead wrong. Alas, it seems that she's no more capable admitting her mistakes than Hillary "I didn't make a mistake voting for Bush's Iraq war" Clinton.

[researcher]

egoooooooo­oooooooooo­ooo on both of you

[CoulterIsASuccubus]

Erica, I still don't understand what point/points you are trying to make about people who refuse to support Hillary. I vote for DEMOCRATIC women all of the time on local and state levels. When Hillary won her Senate seat, I imagined one day voting for her as President. Sorry, she changed and so did I. I can't vote for her with a clear conscience. She has unconditionally supported an illegal war, funded it and refused to hold this administration accountable for anything. She supported creditc card companies against the consumer and is now in the pocket of big pharma. Rupert Murdoch is holding fund raisers for her and she's breaking bread with Richard Mellon Scaife....WTF?? She is virtually Republican. I am certainly not thrilled with Obama (I'd rather have Kucinich or Edwards) but I base it on POLICY.

Frankly, you are just insulting to people who spend a good deal of time thinking about issues but do not support your candidate.

[clevelandchick]

Amen CIAS! Hillary has nobody to blame for the opposition to her as a candidate but herself. In New Hampshire and Iowa, her campaign sent out flyers saying Obama was against reproductive rights when the truth is that he has a 100% rating with both NARAL and NOW. As a woman who is pro-choice, seeing her camp paint a pro-choice candidate wrongfully really really pissed me off. Then we had the fear-mongering 3AM ad and that "fake news" ad in my state lying about NAFTA...it just reminded me so much of Bush and the Neocons.

At the beginning of the primary season as a progressive populist, I backed Edwards. When Edwards dropped out I was truly not sure who to back.

Then Hillary lost a few races and her camp went off the deep end with nasty campaigning. I wasn't on the Obama love train in the beginning either, but the Clinton camp and their supporters made my decision for me, they pushed me towards Obama because of their own actions. It has nothing to do with her gender as I'm a woman who has voted for women many many times in my life. It has everything to do with her voting record, her political affiliations and her campaign's conduct during this race. I chose the better PERSON, when I decided to back Obama.

[JamesEB]

"Plato was ugly. Aesop was a hunchback and slave, Sappho was swarthy and dark -- but who cares?"

So, is being something other than fair and light (i.e., "swarthy and dark") equivalent to being "ugly" or malformed? Are you suggesting that this falls into the category of "body deformity" you mentioned above?

[ErinG]

Taibbi responds...

then Jong shifts her argument.

[cylindar]

There are more important issues to write about such as the fact that women are getting acid thrown in their faces by the Taliban. Take your talent and time and write about some real serious wrongs such as the Muslim treatment of women that I have just mentioned.

[TheEnticer]

If they do that, it would imply feminists actually want to work for the betterment of women in general..

A lot of feminists are only interested in power for themselves of their sisters..

[avicenna]

How Muslim treat women? Pray tell - how many Muslim women do you know? All the ones I'm acquainted with seem to be treated fairly well - but then again, I work in an academic environment so my sample may be biased (but over-represented given their proportion to the population at large).

[klondiker]

Good for you Ms. Jong!!!!

[Expatriated]

"We live in a time when great chunks of Antarctica are floating off into the sea, raising sea-level beyond what scientists predicted even a few years ago; when people are being tortured despite our heritage of the Magna Carta and the Constitution. How does it serve us for you to take cheap shots about age, looks, body fat or any other physical characteristic of men and women?"

So her way of rising above taking cheap shots aimed at physical attributes is to write yet another article on the subject of how it's wrong to take cheap shots aimed at physical attributes? For some reason Matt needs to be held accountable for not discussing things like global warming, but we praise Erica for continuing Matt's argument?
Doesn't that seem a little contradictory?

[Clinton]

HRC does this all the time.

[hglassberg]

Dear Erica,

The unfortunate thing is, we all have bodies. And, unless the people you meet are blind, they notice them before they notice anything else. Now the eye is programmed to note differences in the field. For instance, Obama's ears stand out, as does the left side of McCain's face. It is impolite to mention these things, as it's impolite to mention Hillary's triceps. Bill's hair has drawn notice and comment, as have John Edwards general carriage and, in an earlier era, Michael Dukakis's height . What is one to say? Heterosexual males' eyes are drawn toward women's breasts and it takes a great deal of effort to keep them off them--assuming the male in question finds them attractive. Women may well experience as intrusive, unless of course they like the male in question, in which case it might be gratifying. I myself make it a point to always look women in the eye, but some women experience this as a pernicious instance of the male gaze. Some men too. I've heard of women students who felt deprivileged when their female professor praised another female student's clothes. Certain male students don't like to disrobe in the locker room. Perhaps keeping one's eyes glued to the floor is the answer. Don't See, Don't Talk. Or else: Ask not what your body can do for you; Ask what you can do for your body.

Yours sincerely,

Handel Glassberg
President, The Playdo Institute

[chocco]

Erica, I love you honey, but the fact that I can't stand Hillary is not because she's a woman, it's because she's Hillary. Maybe if YOU ran for Prez, I would be supporting you. Hillary sold out on the war. Period. She will NOT get my vote. I don't give a fuck what little Mattie or any other boy toy says about anything. Hillary is a great woman. Too bad she screwed it up by voting for war in Iraq and has continued to defend that vote by signing on for additional funding, etc. It's not about being a woman.
It's about being that woman.

[SteelMaggie13]

Chocco, exactly!!

I'd LOVE to have a woman president.... Just not THIS woman.

[accountability]

WOOOOO HOOOOO!!!
Rock on Erica Jong.

Maybe Bobby D. can lend him some of your books.
LOL

This was perfect. Well crafted, Well Done!
A battle of wits with the unarmed.

How I love righteous anger expressed perfectly.
Again, Nice Work.

BTW,

Hope you have your body armor on since there are a lot of people about to sling lots of ugly.
AND proving your points.