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The BoobSite Bill Maher and Facebook Inspired
Behold, The League of Maternal Justice! Their manifesto reads:
It's perfectly legal for women to breastfeed publicly in most of the United States, and throughout Canada. We HAVE the right to breastfeed publicly. So why are we insisting upon Festing the Breast?Because people like Bill Maher would have us hide...
Because Facebook thinks that pictures of nursing boobs are dirty...
Because waitstaff at Applebees and YMCA attendants still tell nursing mothers to cover up or nurse in the toilet...
Because it's illegal to ask a nursing mother to stop nursing or conceal her nursing, and yet people still do it...
Because we live in a society where nobody bats an eye at see-through tops and pasties on pop stars, but in which nursing breasts are considered by some to be indecent...
Because some people still say things like "breastfeeding is like masturbating - it shouldn't be done in public"...
Because if even one woman - EVEN ONE - is shamed into not nursing because someone said it's indecent, that's one too many.
Because this most important of mothering activities should be celebrated and lauded and praised from the rooftops.
Because it's a superpower, and we need to be proud of it.
and I'd like to add my own here-
Because Bill Maher knows as much about parenting as George Bush did on Iraq before we invaded
Because facebook bans breastfeeding moms but NOT pedophiles
Because US rates for breastfeeding are embarrassing
Because history reminds us of the days women were kept locked away and out of the public eye while pregnant-this is just another form of oppression
Because I'm tired of lobby groups in Washington determining health policy in the US
Because as a mother and woman I refuse to shut up and stay in the kitchen
Because I will breastfeed at an Applebees, breastfeed on a plane, breastfeed at a mall, breastfeed at a park, breastfeed at a Boy Scout meeting, breastfeed at church, pump breastmilk at work, pump breastmilk during an exam, and feed my baby as I see fit because I AM THE MOM
Because I am beautiful and I will not feel shame over breastfeeding
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See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
...and btw, I'm pretty big on sarcasm. Sarcasm is a tricky thing in text...but uh, yeah.
See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
You know, I actually passed that comment around to see if it was just me...and got varied responses from "I think they are inferring you are crazy, as in, you are smoking crack" to "you should probably clear it up, just in case."
Now, that being said...I had no idea you were even referring to the other post or that you were the same commenter. Sorry, didn't compare any notes there. I think the whole back and forth there was a bit different than the back and forth here, but frankly I'd have to go re-read it. All I saw was "mixing the two" and well I think it's safe to say that needed clarification. So..um...yeah, thanks for clarifying and not accusing me of smoking pot and breastfeeding, although you seem to infer I'm on drugs now...but...whatever. I'm over it.
"...although you seem to infer I'm on drugs now..."
INDEED, I do! It was YOU, Erin Kotecki Vest, who said, "...I'm usually high when I write these."
Am I missing something? Enlighten me! I would love nothing more than to know it isn't true.
See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
Yes. Its called sarcasm. And the "troll" twitter was aimed at http://queenofspainblog.com/2007/10/09/a-million-and-one-dreams/
you'll see the troll comment there. I mentioned the questions of accusation you did *not* make (? I believe you're now saying) outright.
See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
Hang on. Somewhere in there did I just get accused of breastfeeding while smoking pot?
That's not only 100% false but borderline smear. One I will happily take legal action against. My children have been weaned for quite some time now and while breastfeeding I would never engage in any activity that compromised my milk, sans the occasional glass of wine at dinner.
OMG! You're way off, and paranoid to boot! [hmmm - drugs... paranoia...] To infer you were breastfeeding WHILE smoking pot would be of your delusions; I never stated you did them TOGETHER! Re-read my posts if you need a refresher. [hmmm - drugs... memory loss...] In your previous article entitled, "Bill Maher Can Suck My Tits," located here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erin-kotecki-vest/bill-maher-can-suck-my-ti_b_64527.html; you stated in a response, "Hmm. Only one typo. Not bad for me, as I'm usually high when I write these. You know, like Bill. Because he wants to smoke a joint in public (which I'm all for) but doesn't want me to feed my kid in public. Make sense." You also stated, "factual issues with the health side of breast vs. formula? you smoking my weed over there?"
Nonetheless, I'll CLARIFY my point. There should be no confusion, and “smearing” was not my intent. In my OPINION, advocating breastfeeding, while making an inference that the person participates ALSO in the consumption of "pot" or "weed," AND advocates "smoking a joint in public," would lead me to three conclusions. 1. This person doesn’t respect the LAW; one could deduce the person has the same level of respect for anything else. 2. If one advocates the subjects of drugs and breastfeeding in the same article (and posts), I refuse to allow one word to be construed as serious or sincere. 3. I don't care if the acts of breastfeeding and smoking pot were performed simultaneously; either way, it's NOT in the best interest of children to be subjected to it, then, now, or any time!!
You have the right to state your views, opinions, and your "crass" responses to others who don’t agree. I TOO have the right to make whatever inferences, which to me are REASONABLE, and publicly state them as well. If you think I'm wrong, let me know where to send you my personal info to proceed with “legal action.”
I would also love to believe you are not really posting comments on other blogs, calling me a "troll who is making accusations..." Because that's not only 100% false, but borderline smear. RE: http://twitter.com/QueenofSpain
(Ms. Vest's reply continued:)
I am a member of momsrising.org. As a political organization they are of course calm and calculating, as a blogger who rants and bitches, I don't have to be. Which is why I rant on my blogs and I support them through membership and petition signing, activism, etc.
My tone is always harsh. My tone is always crass. Its how I blog. I suppose I'm more like a shock jock and I want you to think. I want the bill maher's of the world to think and I want to shake you until you think. Its what blogging does for me that traditional journalism and or playing nice never got me.
This is my soapbox.
I don't blog calm. Well, I hardly ever blog calm.
As for what I want? I get it by bringing up the topic. Honest discussion. The exchange of ideas and debate.
I am gladly a part of many very practical breastfeeding petitions, outreach, education...but I don't use that as a platform. Its just not the place. Blogging is different.
as for being mean...I think I'm just as forceful as the boys when it comes to a healthy discussion. I'm all for niceties but I see no reason to play patty cake when I'm defending my ideas.
My tone isn't for everyone. My blog isn't for everyone. And not everyone likes the way i go about it. Such is life. And such is my blog. Its why its MY blog. Hell, my own mother can't stand to read me. But its how I work it out of my head and put it into words.
So before this comment spot cuts me off, because Im running out of space...I would hope you can find the organization or blogs that give you the style of activism you can be a part of. Be it whatever I'm up too, or simply a momsrising.org.
The beauty is that there are so many of us out there, speaking our minds.
Erin, I wrote my thoughts regarding this post on my blog as I thought it was too lengthy to post here (http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/ExpectingExecutiveBlog/~3/168071526/dear-queen-of-spain-i-still-dont-get-it.aspx)
But, I think your reply is important to post here on HuffPo. It may provide greater clarity for some reader. My reaction is simply, to whom much is given, much is expected. Best, Erin - ExpectingExecutive.com
As it was posted this afternoon by Erin Kotecki Vest a.k.a. Queen of Spain:
First and foremost I puffy heart you too. I continue to use Bill Maher as an example because he is a Huffington post blogger. I can not speak for the girls over at the LofMJ, but I assume they used him as well because he touched off such a big discussion on the matter.
I would say I continue to rail him on the issue because he really to me represents the main demo of ignorance o n the issue. I'm I over it with him? Of course, but throwing his name on my HuffPo blog post seems a natural fit. Keep in mind Bill Maher set the tone for this little bitchslap fight by calling us dogs and comparing breastfeeding to masturbating. Many bloggers and orgs. would never stoop to his level-me? I'm a ranter and I'll stoop away. Especially when my target is a high rated tv host.
As for facebook. With millions of members it takes them weeks to find the photos and then they send you an email asking you remove them. They dont' seem to have a dedicated team going after breastfeeding mothers, but when they come across a profile with pics, they email the user and ask they be removed for face account de-activation. I find that retarded. So I'm no longer supporting facebook. I was a part of the breastfeeding is not obscene group before I deleted my account.
To be continued on next post as Ms. Vest's reply was too long for a single post. My apologies.
See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
I think the idea here is that what I find as totally acceptable, you find offensive. And since we're all feeding at the same place, I should be kind and try not to throw my acceptance in your face.
I just can't imagine anyone asking the barslut to wear a less revealing top, or a man to use a blanket to cover his nasty potbelly. However people seem just fine with asking a mother to feed in a restroom or use a blanket. So much so, that we now need LAWS to protect the act of feeding a child. Despite the fact that the majority of breastfeeding mothers are already doing everything they can to make sure no one notices what is going on at their table.
Both of my kids would kick off blankets or scream their heads off if I tried to cover them (because you realize, covering up means a blanket over their heads...) and I certainly wasn't going to force them to be smothered under there.
Now. Keep in mind how attitudes affect culture. You say OMG I DON"T WANT TO SEE THAT and freak out and women WILL and DO stay home. They switch to formula. They stop nursing all together.
It's a support thing. Its an attitude thing. Its the idea that mothers need to be supported and revered, not shunned and given dirty looks. The breastfeeding rates in the US compared to the rest of the world are just horrific. In other countries this is just not an issue. At all. And I'm not talking 3rd world here...I'm talking the UK, Australia, etc.
Somewhere along the lines american women compromised what is best for their baby for what is more convenient for YOU. Which is why this msg is so important.
"...what I find as totally acceptable, you find offensive."
Not offensive, irritating.
"And since we're all feeding..."
Fun, I can reframe it too! And since we're all feeding at the same place, I should be kind and try not to throw my (and others) supplication in your face.
"I just can't imagine...his nasty potbelly."
Barslut? Really? Well, anyway...the "barslut" is in the employ of the establishment. Breastfeeding moms are not. More importantly, no matter how revealing the "barslut's" top, she's not having someone drinking out of her breasts...probably.
"However people seem just fine with...a blanket."
I'm saying blanket, not restroom.
"So much so, that we now need LAWS..."
Great, then moms are protected by laws and can use their discretion whether they cover or not.
"Both of my kids would kick off blankets..."
Smothered? Are we getting into Joan Crawford territory here? I’m talking about using the blanket as a screen. Actually, how about screens to put in front of your table to block you from view. You can take your top off and go hog wild. Everyone wins!
"...I DON"T WANT TO SEE THAT..."
Valerie Cherish? Ok, suppose I see a woman breastfeeding and develop a fetish for such things. Society condemns my fetish and I grew up in a religious household so I feel shame for my desires and commit suicide. All because of my overblown reaction to someone in a restaurant. Oh yeah, I forgot, no one is responsible for my actions but me. If a mother stops breastfeeding altogether, that's her business.
"It's a support thing..."
Sorry, but like the military, moms don't get my automatic reverence. It's a case by case thing for me.
"In other countries..."
Good for those other countries.
"Somewhere along the lines..."
Yeah, because a blanket is so inconvenient. Look, just the attempt at the blanket would be nice. If the baby makes a fuss, ok, so be it, don't use the blanket. If the baby is cool with it, use the blanket.
You know there are men out there that have fetishes when women breastfeeds.
See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
banging.my.head.against.the.wall.
I'm FEEDING my kid. FOOD. I am FEEDING. Am I supposed to apologize for exposing your eyes to the side of my breast? Could someone please shield ME from that asshole at the next table and his unsightly nose hair? Should I ask him to cover up his arms because I find his tattoo offensive? Should that lady behind us use a blanket to cover her mouth because the way she chews is just nasty and I really don't think she should subject my kids to that.
I guess the lady next to me is ok, because she's using a bottle. She can go out of the house...me? I get to stay in because I *might* make someone uncomfortable by breastfeeding.
This is ridiculous. Really.
I AM FEEDING THE BABY. Its like...the BASIC component of HUMAN LIFE.
"banging.my.head.against.the.wall."
Welcome to the club!
"I'm FEEDING my kid. FOOD. I am FEEDING. Am I supposed to apologize for exposing your eyes to the side of my breast?"
No, but if I asked you to use a blanket, I suddenly become some "patriarchy" imposing asshole. It's called compromise. Feed 10 kids in public if you want, just be considerate and use a blanket so you're not making the backward cretins who just "don't get it" uncomfortable since we're all being forced to share the same feeding trough and I don't want to go through another 40 minute wait for sub-par food in a restaurant that throws random junk on the walls in lieu of atmosphere.
"Could someone please shield ME from that asshole at the next table and his unsightly nose hair?"
Wow, I didn't even attempt to use the penis analogy in my responses. But hey, if you want to equivocate the apparent sanctity of breastfeeding with someone who has long nose hairs, bravo (slow claps)!
"Should I ask him to cover up his arms because I find his tattoo offensive?
Only if the tattoo is of a mother who is breastfeeding. Ah, I love cohesion.
"Should that lady behind us use a blanket to cover her mouth because the way she chews is just nasty and I really don't think she should subject my kids to that."
If she’s breastfeeding someone in her mouth, yes. If she’s chewing with her mouth open, tell her to chew like someone who wasn’t raised by dogs.
"I guess the lady next to me is ok, because she's using a bottle. She can go out of the house...me? I get to stay in because I *might* make someone uncomfortable by breastfeeding."
Uh, stay in? What? Are you having another conversation entirely?
"This is ridiculous. Really."
Agreed.
"I AM FEEDING THE BABY. Its like...the BASIC component of HUMAN LIFE."
Who's telling you not to breastfeed? It's not me.
Many infants (including my own) will NOT eat under a blanket. They are hot and stuffy and claustrophobic.
Even without a blanket, breastfeeding is by nature a fairly discreet activity. The baby's head covers all of the "good stuff," and the top of the shirt covers the top of the boob.
I've been glared at, I've been criticized, I've been stared at ...
NOT because I was showing boob (I wasn't), but because people seemed to be offended by the very IDEA of breastfeeding.
In other words, if someone could tell that I was breast feeding, then it wasn't "discreet", or it wasn't "discreet enough."
The only other real alternative to public breastfeeding is staying home. If you are telling me that I cannot nurse when I am out and about with my infant, then you are telling me to stay home.
Luckily, I'm opinionated enough that I don't care what you (or anyone else) thinks. Unfortunately, I know a lot of women who gave up on breastfeeding because of idiots who treated them badly in public.
Damn. You eat in some rough diners.
See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
Have you actually ever a SEEN a mother breastfeeding in public? Its not like its some strip show. Most women show more tit just walking around in their babydoll t's than I EVER did while breastfeeding.
You see more of any random celebrity's boobs on ANY mag cover than you ever did when I fed either of my kids.
And the reason you call my tit a "private" appendage is because your patriarchy sexualized it. Well, I'm using it for what it was intended. Funny, I also remember ANKLES being covered up and called "private" way back when.
Free your mind.
"Have you actually ever a SEEN a mother breastfeeding in public?"
Yes, but I don't care if a mother breast feeds in public. Whether she covers if asked i.e. if she is making patrons at a restaurant or some other establishment uncomfortable, is what I care about. Unless the kid doesn't have sweat glands or is horribly claustrophobic, this is only an issue if the mom is some sort of causehead.
"Its not like its some strip show...breastfeeding."
Who cares if it was a strip show? Strippers are only sexual because our patriarchal society has deemed it so, right? It has nothing to do with the fact that breasts are sexual organs. As long as women are covered within a millimeter of the law, they may dress however they like (America!).
"You see more of any random celebrity's boobs on...my kids."
Great, then as I see things (or rather as I don't), there's no problem because you're covered and I've never seen a magazine sport a nipple with milk dribbling out of it while another person was slurping it up. That is, except when I'm actively seeking that sort of material (America!).
"And the reason you call...is because your patriarchy sexualized it."
My bad. I forgot that western civ and our evershifting sensibilities were being psychoanalyzed (No, that was not a backhanded attempt at calling you psycho, nor was this parenthetical)
"Well, I'm using it for what it was intended."
Great, but if I were to ask you to cover yourself because you were upsetting me or my family, what would you do? Would you put me and my family out or would you understand that some people might be uncomfortable (The outrage of it!)
"Funny, I also remember ANKLES...way back when."
If taboos can change, they can change back. Just because you think it's ok, doesn't mean everyone else does/will. I accept that a woman may breast feed in public. I find it laughable that it's somehow unacceptable to ask a woman to cover when she breastfeeds.
And you'd no doubt put a fig leaf on the statue of David. Censoring the human experience is the sickness. I have rarely witnessed any event more beautiful than a child being breastfeed. If someone is uncomfortable seeing something that basic and wonderful they need to ask themselves what's wrong, seek some help, and not insist that the world change to suit them.
Earthlings Unite!
"...this is only an issue if the mom is some sort of causehead."
Is it causehead, or pothead? I think it's safe to say the above article was written by both.
Personally, I find it very difficult to take seriously, a pot-smoking breastfeeder. In and of themselves?... A pot-smoker, maybe. A breastfeeder, positively. But mix them, ummm...not so much. But, that's just me.
Shamelessly stolen (I have no source):
Dr. Seuss for Nursing Moms
Would you nurse her in the park?
Would you nurse him in the dark?
Would you nurse him with a Boppy?
And when your boobs are feeling floppy?
I would nurse him in the park,
I would nurse her in the dark.
I’d nurse with or without a Boppy.
Floppy boobs will never stop me.
Can you nurse with your seat belt on?
Can you nurse from dusk till dawn?
Though she may pinch me, bite me, pull,
I will nurse her `till she’s full!
Can you nurse and make some soup?
Can you nurse and feed the group?
It makes her healthy strong and smart,
Mommy’s milk is the best start!
Would you nurse him at the game?
Would you nurse her in the rain?
In front of those who dare complain?
I would nurse him at the game.
I would nurse her in the rain.
As for those who protest lactation,
I have the perfect explanation.
Mommy’s milk is tailor made
It’s the perfect food, you need no aid.
Some may scoff and some may wriggle,
Avert their eyes or even giggle.
To those who can be cruel and rude,
Remind them breast’s the perfect food!
I would never scoff or giggle,
Roll my eyes or even wiggle!
I would not be so crass or crude,
I KNOW that this milk’s the perfect food!
We make the amount we need
The perfect temp for every feed.
There’s no compare to milk from breast-
The perfect food, above the rest.
Those sweet nursing smiles are oh so sweet,
Mommy’s milk is such a treat.
Human milk just can’t be beat.
I will nurse, in any case,
On the street or in your face.
I will not let my baby cry,
I’ll meet her needs, I’ll always try.
It’s not about what’s good for you,
It’s best for babies, through and through.
I will nurse her in my home,
I will nurse her when I roam.
Leave me be lads and ma’am.
I will nurse her, Mom I am.
I don't understand why my bud Bill Maher is such a dick about this subject considering he seems open-mindedly libertarian on a lot of other issues. What's 'indecent' is thinking that any part of the human body is not fit to be seen by any other human being. Laws against nudity are obscene. Feeling uncomfortable when faced with someone breastfeeding their child is strictly your problem and no one else.
Earthlings Unite!
See Erin Kotecki Vest's Profile
Last I checked boobs were EVERYWHERE. On the cover of mags at the grocery store. On every other commercial on tv. And last I checked YOU ate without a blanket on your head.
"Last I checked boobs were EVERYWHERE. On the cover of mags at the grocery store. On every other commercial on tv."
Gee, if bare breasts are on the cover of a magazine, guess what? It's wrapped in plastic. Last I checked, these kinds of mags weren't sold at the grocery store. Unless Hustler has opened up a new chain, I doubt you see bare breasts on magazine covers when you're in the checkout line with your Special K.
"And last I checked YOU ate without a blanket on your head."
I (usually) don't have a child attached to an appendage of my body that's considered private (yeah, I could have said titillating, but I didn't because you're better than that), in an act that many feel should also be private. But hey, equivocating is fun, huh?
Moms: One of the few groups that can actually anger me.
If you're breast feeding in public and someone asks you to cover up, do so. If you don't cover up, you're the equivalent of the a-hole that talks during a movie. It's called decorum and being respectful of those around you, so any sort of holier than thou or put upon attitude is pretty much what I’d expect from a child, not someone who's supposed to be an adult.
http://www.ruthlessreviews.com/reviews.cfm/id/68/page/fuck_american_moms.html
I agree with the author on the hypocrisy of the whole thing. Guys are obsessed with boobs! They even dish out big bucks to go see some fake ones in a strip club! The clothes the average woman wears today leaves very little to the imagination! All that is missing is a nipple or 2!
Yet, a woman is feeding her infant and THAT becomes an issue!
The day I, a non-parent, can bounce my boobies in public for non-breastfeeding purposes; you, the mommy, can bounce yours in public in whatever way you want.
You decided to have a baby. You knew there were decency laws. You had the baby anyway. Deal with it.
In multiple states in the US if a man can be topless at a location, so can a woman. NY is one of them.
I've heard that women have had to challenge the NY (and I think that's only in the City) topless law in order to bounce their boobies as they please.
Nude beaches and NYC aside, I stand by my statement.
My overall point is that just because you're a mommy doesn't mean you can whip your titty out any time you want. Mommyhood doesn't confer any additional Constitutional - or other - Rights.
Yes, momma is feeding the baby. Yes, you can see more titty in a 7-11 than you can in a Starbucks with a breastfeeding mother. And, yes, most breastfeeding mommies are pretty discreet.
No, I wouldn't want to eat in a bathroom - an argument often given by breastfeeding mothers. No, I wouldn't want to formula feed if I were a mother AND the option to breastfeed was available to me (and many women DO have problems with milk production, no matter what La Leche says).
What I WOULD do, if I had a baby AND were able to breastfeed, is breastfeed in the privacy of my home. What I WOULD do is pump breast milk and save it - and there are MANY places available for this activity away from home. What I WOULD do is carry extra milk with me in bottles. What I WOULD do, if absolutely necessary, is breastfeed in the most unobtrusive place available.
Maybe I'm an old coot, but in-your-face-breastfeeding is something that annoys me.
I knew there were decency laws. I also knew that breastfeeding is specifically exempted from indecency statutes in my state and most other states. YOU deal with it.
I gave birth to my first child in 1982. I breast fed wherever and whenever depending on his demands. I gave birth to my last child in 1996. Same with her, whenever, wherever. In 1982 no one told me to cover up. I never received a single negative reaction. Fast forward to 1996 I was told at least three times that I know of that being a 'milk cow' in public was shameful and that I was aiding and abetting the patriarchy by breastfeeding in the first place. I was asked to cover up or go to the rest room to nurse several times and once I was even told it was "that kind of behavior that makes it possible for men to rape women and use the excuse that they are asking for it."
Two steps forward a century back.
"aiding and abetting the patriarchy by breastfeeding"?
that's a new one on me...
"that kind of behavior that makes it possible for men to rape women and use the excuse that they are asking for it."
That's simply laughable, and if you were told that, you should have simply laughed in the face of stupidity! In 17 years of law enforcement, and 6 years specifically assigned to the sex crimes division in a major city, my husband has never ONCE written or read the words 'rape' and 'breastfeeding' in the same police report!
In my opinion, it was a silly excuse for someone who was just trying to nicely say, "Please ma'am, could you kindly show some decency, class, and curtesy to the patrons of our establishment who find your bare, lactating breast, and the toddler hanging from it, a distraction while they are trying to enjoy a meal they've paid for, and cover up? ...Oh, is it too hot in here for a blanket? Let me get you a fan. ...Oh, is the little tyke a kicker? Well, let me get him a soccer ball to kick around the restaurant while you eat."
Excuse my cynicism, but don't force indecency and a personal lack of class down my throat in the name of breastfeeding. If I want to subscribe to the mag, "Lactating Lassies," I'll do that in the privacy of my home, I don't want to see them shooting the cover of the mag while I eat though. Cover up or use a pump!
"Please ma'am, could you kindly show some decency, class, and curtesy to the patrons of our establishment who find your bare, lactating breast, and the toddler hanging from it, a distraction while they are trying to enjoy a meal they've paid for, and cover up? ..."
I guess the Tshirt that covered the top of my breast just wasn't enough. I guess I should have opted out of being part of the world while I was feeding my child the way god (or evolution) intended. I guess it is just too much to ask that people have some common sense about what is best for kids. My children don't suffer the allergies their father and I suffer and they've never had to fight to keep their weight down and I believe they benefited in many more ways from being fed the way their bodies meant for them to be fed. Just because the Puritans got here early doesn't mean I have to put up with Puritanical bullshit.
I'd certainly rather see someone with a toddler attached at the tit sitting in a restaurant than have to deal with the toddler running around loose with the bottle hanging out of his mouth.
As for decency, class and courtesy, well, according to both my grandmothers ignoring someone who was violating the rules of decency, class and courtesy (unless truly causing harm) was the only decent, classy and courteous thing to do.
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