I Am He as You Are He as You Are Me and We Are All Together
I've heard a loud public outcry from prominent gay Americans about the passage of Proposition 8, but not as much from the so called "straight" community. I think it needs to be said as loudly as possible, by as many people as possible: the passage of Proposition 8 in California is an embarrassment to, and an indictment of, all Americans.
Let's get clarity right away: Denying any Americans any rights that other Americans hold is discrimination. Period. It doesn't matter whether the discrimination is motivated by morality, or religious beliefs, or a Ouija board, it's still discrimination. And that makes it illegal. (And that comes after the fact that it's wrong.) It should be clear to everyone (or made clear to them) that it puts us all in danger of the same kind of discrimination being pointed our way the moment someone decides we're on the wrong side of their moral or religious measurements.
So, what to do about a situation in which more than 50% of the voters choose to sanction discrimination? I don't think the answer is terribly exotic (I love you Michael Patrick King, and I loved your piece, but I don't think the cage bit will do the trick; they'd like to see you in a cage). Discrimination has been overcome before, and the route toward redemption this time, I'm guessing, will be the same.
First, everyone who finds this discrimination to be an outrage (and everyone should) needs to get on board in fighting it. And then, as a group, we need to impress upon the slightly larger group of voters how important we all are to them, and how much they'd miss us if we were gone. In other words, start withholding business from those who don't get it. From this moment forward, all anti-discrimination Americans should take their weddings out of California. No honeymoons in California, either. I'm sorry to suggest divvying up the world this way, but some research needs to be done in terms of which hotel chains, flower distributors, gift outlets, and departments stores (and which of their owners and board members) supported or resisted the passage of the measure, and steps need to be taken to punish those who fought against equal rights for all, or didn't fight hard enough in defense of them.
If you happen to know particular businesses in-state who stand on the right side of equal rights measures, then by all means, throw business their way. My point is that it's time for all enlightened citizens to stand beside, around, between, and in formation with those who are being denied the rights we've all earned, and are entitled to. A threat (and an insult) to one is an insult to all. It's time to push back hard. Not as a minority group fighting for equal rights, but as a massive spending block of multi-colored Americans, aware that any discrimination is an unacceptable infringement on all of our rights to live in a free -- and equal -- society.
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Wait until they come up with a chart like they did in Nuernberg. It started with making the Jews the minority. Evidently the Mormons are up to date Nazi's.
Be careful about painting with broad brushes. That would go right along with what you are decrying! I am Mormon. I am a registered Democrat, liberal, Obama supporter, union member, and the brother-in-law of a gay man who is married to another man. Not only do I NOT have a problem with gay marriage, I support it.
Not once have I been ostracized at church or by fellow Mormons. Many others agree with my stance. I know others are members of religions and don't agree with 100% of all "official policies." Do you agree with 100% of what the government thinks or says? It doesn't make you any less of an American to do so, and it is the same with religion. I am still a Mormon and am very proud of who I am and my religion. I am also proud of those who question authority when situations like this come up, and we sit down and have a positive dialogue and share viewpoints. Not once have I been threatened, insulted, or vilified in a conversation with other Mormons when discussing an issue like this that I am passionate about.
There will be extremes in all religions. I only ask that people understand that not every Mormon holds the same views, just as there are Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Baptists, Atheists, etc. who all have their own view of their belief system and don't feel that they should be labeled as something they are not.
I have no problem with the Mormon people but with the church, Your church should lose its tx exemption. They actively used parishoners for political purposes and did so within church walls. We all know what separation of church and state means. There is no group of people we should turn on but there are religious institutions that should answer for what they have done.I am sorry but I do not believe that the Mormons supporting prop 8 were an example of extreme's within the church. Rather that Mormons who did not were the exception.
Sorry, Muttlib, but I don't buy your arguement.
I'm Catholic, and I'm glad the church was been raked over the coals regarding the pedophile priest scandal.
Sometimes the best thing to do is to shine a big old light on something so the rest of the world can really see it.
Separation of church and state is the most enduring and binding contract between American Citizen's. Your church crossed the line and they don't get a pass.
There were many people in Germany who had NO animosity toward Jews.
That did not stop the German government from murdering millions of Jewish, gay, lesbian, gypsy, trade union, citizens.
I personally do not understand why people stay in a church that violates every principle of decency and fairness. Spirituality is in the heart; there are churches that support equality for all people. Church elders, bishops, popes, et al are only human beings and their decrees are political, not divine.
If the Mormon church had a schism and a new gay-friendly branch formed, I would applaud their honesty. But the church that started out polygamous and now uses its tax-exempt millions to dictate to California that marriage is 1m/1w?
Jesus Christ never said any such thing, and it isn't in the Old Testament, either. Any church that preaches discrimination is, in my opinion, not very Christian.
The fundamental measure of good legislation is that it protects society and individuals from harm.
Precisely where is the harm to society or to any individual in legalizing gay marriage? What legal basis is there for preventing consenting non-related adults from forming a committed economic and personal bond, with ALL the same rights and responsibilities as "straight" marriage? Where the logic for calling it something else when it is, in all practical ways, the same thing?
If there were legitimate arguments against it, I would listen. But so far, all I hear is "we know it's bad," "God says so," "think of the children," "it'll ruin marriage," and "it'll cause more events like Katrina and 9/11." Until I hear something logical and non-supernatural, I have to assume that there is no argument against gay marriage.
Prop 8 will fail because it is bad law, it is unfair, it hurts too large a minority, and too many people now have a gay family member, co-worker, fellow parishioner, or friend who they recognize as deserving of basic legal protections and respect, not to mention the right to declare their relationship as equal to any "straight" marriage in America.
Some of the strongest marriages I've seen are between two people of the same sex. Even if that weren't true, I would still be against laws like Prop 8, simply because they are illogical and unfair.
A civil marriage license, is NOT a license to have sex. It neither confers the power or controls the timing of sex in any way. That same marriage license also has nothing to do with children. NOTHING. It is a civil contract entered into by 2 parties to form a legal union for economic, property and emotional bonds. Gender should not have anything to do with the parties joined in the contract. since sex is NOT involved .If this marriage license were about procreation, then we would have to do it in the office that administered the contract and then wait the mandatory 90 waiting period until birth of the union. Pending verification of original manufacture and ownership of said child.
This is why I believe all unions, gay and straight, should be civil unions, and the word "marriage" should be left to the churches/s
Totally agree.
Civil unions are not recognized by the federal government. A civil union provides 27 rights as opposed to the over 3000 rights given to married couples. The IRS does not recognize civil unions. So if you recieve medical benefits through your partner you will be taxed on them by the IRS. Is that fair? Many people feel good about opposing same sex marriage because they believe civil unions are the same they arent.
I am straight.
I was active in trying to get the Equal Right Ammendment Passed in the 1970's. One thing I know about the Mormon Church is that they will go to any means to smash those that disagree with them They will twist the truth, excommunicate (see the Sonja Johnson story), declare us all following Satin, and on and on and on. So, BOYCOTT UTAH TOURISM ( BUT) for short. If you are a non- Mormon working in the tourist indusrty I would ask that you address the church's behavior on a state level. We must hit them back and hard. Please do not ask us to not blame you. That is what happened the last time and the Chuch prevailed. Please join us in this fight. There are only so many housewives they can excommunicate.
Some drag queens really do worship satin. I expect you mean Satan. Who seems to be running the Mormon church now, if their behavior is any indication.
It is my understanding that lawsuits have already been filed challenging the new law as unconstitutional on the ground that a class of people is being deprived equal protection. This is similar to the argument used to overturn those delicious pieces of hate legislation, Props. 187 and 209. I have never understood why this crap makes it onto the ballot. What's next? It'll be legal to carry a gun & shoot somebody just because you feel threatened? Oh yeah, they already did that, in Texas!
Florida as well
I'd really like to see the whole ballot initiative process go away in California. Anyone with enough time, money and signatures can put pratically anything on the ballot here. Old T-Boone Pickens had one regarding wind energy, and lots of times we either get double dipped (same thing, different wording) or double-jeopardied (where prop A nullifies prop B, both of the same ballot).
Seriously, if the legislature in this state would get off their collective @sses and actually introduce some legislation, who wouldn't be bombarded by all this cr@p.
In Canada these individual rights are guaranteed by our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it was a long time coming! A past Prime Minister, Pierre Trudeau, rightly said "The government has no business in the bedrooms of the nation. Never give up the quest!!
hello canada! Revoke whatever benefits you give to the racist polygamist cult Mormons
Religion is simply not a factor in our elections. Here religion is completely separate from government. It is a private individual matter and I feel choices made by different religions should stay within their own group. It should have no sway at all with legislative matters.
It's coming. They're on the radar now & looking at similar charges to Warren Jeffs. It's finally coming to an end, that's for sure!
Evan Handler, you say, "I love you Michael Patrick King, and I loved your piece, but I don't think the cage bit will do the trick; they'd like to see you in a cage."
I agree. And I made that comment on Michael Patrick King's posting, which I loved--as I love your posting, too.
But for some reason, the comment got deleted. So I'm trying again.
There are people who actually enjoy seeing other people in cages. For many of those folks, the argument that we who are gay have now been placed in a kind of cage is a satisfying argument. There is a cruelty in human nature that goes far beyond the pecking order of animals, unfortunately.
And that cruelty is on exhibition in anti-gay initiatives such as proposition 8.
Right on.
Get 'em in the wallet.
That always works when their minds and hearts are numb, dumb and/or asleep.
Far right GOP hate-fan-wacko-base understands $$$ and the lack of it.
You know Evan, I'm 50 years old and I remember listening to this Beatles song when I was a little girl -- until I read your title I had never known the exact phrasing of these lyrics -- the words have always been jumbled up in my mind -- thanks to you the words are clear and the message is strong to me now -- thank you Evan!
I support your efforts -- I live in Alabama. Yes, I believe your rights, as stated in the Declaration of Independance, have and are being violated. The march in San Francisco was a big step. I believe this will go all the way to the Supreme Court.
I thought the foundation of the constitution was that a majority can't legislate away the freedoms of minorities. Our rights end where others' begin.
Simply put - If you are heterosexual and support us and have NOT made an effort to directly contact your representatives and DEMAND that your LGBTI friend-son
Too harsh?
I apologize. I'd hate to make you or your family's life difficult.
Quote: "It doesn't matter whether the discrimination is motivated by morality, or religious beliefs, or a Ouija board, it's still discrimination"
Let's make one thing clear: Discrimination can not be motivated by morality. Discrimination is per definition immoral. Trying to deny some people rights other people hold should under no circumstances be accepted as morally correct.
Denying other people to love who they love is under no circumstance morally acceptable. Denying other people legal rights (whether to be recognized as their loved one's true family, or the right to take part in their families' health insurances, or to inherit their loved ones when they die, etc, etc, etc) one holds oneself is to be likened with theft. Again, immorality.
yeah, well... "Morality" is the excuse they use.
Great post by Evan Handler, as always. Anyone who was around in the sixties remembers the historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. I can assure one and all that had these measures been put to a popular vote in certain areas of the country at that time, they would have been voted down, just as gay marriage was voted down in California this week. I submit that denying anyone the ability to marry (as long as both parties are consenting adults) is a violation of that person's civil rights. Civil rights is NOT an issue that should be put to a popular vote--otherwise, you have what's known as the"tyranny of the majority".
Thus, we have Amendment 14 to the Constitution of the United States of America.
right on...
said the lesbian from NY who wants to legally marry her partner of over four years....
So Evan , Unless you and the rest of Blodom call for the boycott and protests toward the NAACP and Black and Hispanic and Asian Churches ,businesses and organizations then you have justified Prop 8.. This is not a civil rights issue and Black America specifically are angered beyond belief that the homosexual community has tried to hijack this as such....sa
we all, gay or straight, have an inalienable right to be treated equally, to live in freedom, and to pursue our own happiness . . . the constitutional prohibition of same sex marriage in california denies gay and lesbian citizens equal treatment and is, thus, a violation of their inalienable rights and a grave civil rights issue
Whoa! I am sure there are plenty of leaders in the NAACP who are already on the NO on 8 side. The problem is doing the work to unify that support for equal protection of the law to state NAACP directors, district or county or city NAACP directors, and individual NAACP members. Maybe the NAACP youth division's college age members would be a good place to start a dialogue. There may be a division of opinions there, but there are certainly some NAACP young adult leaders who support a unified front against bigotry.
Should be "Blogdom".
Wrong! Got to youtube and see Obama's interview on MTV.
he clearly states his position.Y
Obama said it was "wrong, unnecessary and divisive" seems clear to me.
BSERIUS -- I suggest you read the "Declaration of Independance" -- do the words "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" mean anything to you?
The CA NAACP came out against Prop 8. I think I get what you're saying, but don't pop off.
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