CA Prop 8 Reeks of the Stench of Hate and Bigotry!
When did it become okay to discriminate? What country are we all living in anyway? I thought this was America, am I wrong?
Wake up folks before it's too late! This country was founded on the premise of separation of church & state. And why do you suppose that was? Because back in the day of our forefathers, (ya know, the dudes who fought and died for our freedoms) life under an oppressive British empire was more than they could take.
Living in a "my way or the highway" nation sucked! Dictation, Denial and Discrimination was the name of the game until our founding fathers decided that they'd had it!
"Let freedom ring!", they shouted. And a HUGE part of that freedom was of course separation of church and state. If you are truly an American, (and not some closeted fascist) you are part of the privileged few on the planet who get to live in a country that supports tolerance of diversity. Heck we celebrate it! We can be who we want to be, pray to whomever we choose to pray and live as equals regardless of gender, race, creed or sexual orientation.
To think that in this upcoming election there is actually a proposition to add an amendment to the California Constitution to legalize discrimination! Shame on us! This proposition is not about gay marriage; it's about hate, discrimination and intolerance of diversity. It is wholesale, unadulterated hate-mongering and it MUST be snuffed out in a dramatic fashion at once to illustrate to those behind it that in America we embrace the neighbor who might be different from us and are proud of it!
So to all you TRUE Americans, get out there and vote on November 4th, and let's reject hate.
Get all your friends, co-workers and relatives to vote too and make sure you vote NO on proposition 8.
Freedom Fighter,
Fran Drescher
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The God I know is all about unconditional love, acceptance and compassion. Love between anyone is a very beautiful thing, and should be honored, not villified. We are all God's children, and as such, we are all loved unconditionally. All the great religious works contain two little words, "Judge Not".
If we should not judge others, and work to love unconditionally, I really don't see why people are using god's name to invoke hate and intolerance.
As a non-americ
AND convince your family... parents and grandparents!! make them hear you!
It sounds eminently reasonable, much as I fail to understand why anyone would want to get married or why anyone religious would want to restrain people from doing so.
Here in Australia, we have abolished legal discrimination against same sex couples in areas such as superannuation. inheritance, child custody etc
But no marriage, right?
To: sdskleton03. The church did not declare heterosexual marriage as a sacrament until 1215 C.E., one of the Vatican Library's earliest liturgical documents is a marriage ceremony for two persons of the same sex. The document dates to the fourth century, if not earlier. In other words, nine centuries before
heterosexual marriage was declared a sacrament, the church liturgically celebrated same-sex covenants. This is easily verified by doing your research.
Regarding point 2, are you saying that inter racial marriages are not to be recognized?
We Catholics are sick and tired of being BASHED!
And the Lord God above is more than sick and tired of this baloney!
This has nothing to do with bashing Catholics. I am a gay Catholic. Sometimes, the church is just into inequality and hypocracy.
Read the sermon on the Mount, darling.
Particularly the instruction to rejoice and be glad when you are persecuted for the sake of righteousness ( at least as you see it). And be grateful you're not in China, where Catholics are in prison for being Catholics. Please stop mocking their sacrifice.
Jesus said His followers would have a hard time. I don't think He was lying; do you?
Yes he did and he also said we were blessed too.
And I'm not mocking their scrafices either!
Of course, you'd rather be the BASHER. Live as Christians, true Christians, instead of the gang mentality you have, and you would find yourself getting a lot of respect. And I say that as a former Catholic, raised Catholic. Organized Religion is about rules, nothing else. And the Catholic Religion (Stop calling it Faith!) has more rules than most. The idea that you have to abide by those rules or burn in hell is ridiculous. And the idea that YOU post here saying that YOU and only YOU know the "Lord God Above's" heart and mind and intentions, and I don't, is beyond ridiculous.
Shake,
Did you ever study ANY of the Saints?
Apparently not...
Down through the years Jesus has given us many ways...man
The latest was through St. Faustina.
Just Google her and The Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
Say it just once and you will receive all the grace you need, keep saying it everyday and the Good Lord will send you blessings.
Jesus WANTS everyone to gain heaven and he WANTS to shower blessings on everyone, BUT he also made us with free will and respects it.
Organized religion is about more than rules. It is also about MONEY and POWER. You betcha!
Taking marriage advice from any catholic church official, is laughable. When these very church leaders have NO involvement in a marriage by there own religious laws. Taking any marriage advice from them is akin to taking flying lessons, and getting a pilots license from someone who has never flown a plane, and who has vowed to never get in a plane, ever. I hope I never fly your airline.
Great. So quit hating Christ and follow His teachings.
You Are a Christian, aren't you?
I'm Catholic, I guess that makes it different?
Christ did not teach homosexuality.
HIs very first miracle was at a wedding in CANA.
At any rate stop trying to redefine marriage.
I love you Fran and thank you for being the beacon of Light that you are!
But ya know, I think we should use the bible to determine our laws - especially when marriages and families are under attack. So here's what I propose as a start:
Make adultery illegal. Round up the adulterers and adulteresses and throw 'em in jail. Now I realize that we might have to turn the Senate building into a detention center to accommodate all of the hypocritical, holier than though legislators. I'd be willing to bet that there'd be more than a few fundamentalist churches without a preacher too :-)
Peace
That's exactly right. Bible believers who seems to think they can selectively enforce bible laws are just lying to themselves and to us. They say, well we're all sinners,..
Leviticus 19:19
A cloth garment made of two kinds of material must not be worn.
Let's get Congress right on this one! The textile industry are heathens!
...serious
There is so much culturally irrelevant and patently absurd law in the Bible that any attempt to justify any action using it becomes absurd by association. Prove your mettle by being a nice person and please keep your superstitions to yourself.
Want to stop these cultists?
Then agree with them that the Ten Commandments should be displayed at all government buildings. And Congress should pass a law that says that any person who breaks any of the Commandments will be ejected from public office and can never hold office again..
Bet they'll go along with you?
Hah!
This means putting their rears where their mouths are, and they will never do that..
if this proposition passes, there will be no stopping these extremists.
next thing you know, they'll try to make gay couple adoption illegal.
Yes and I'm very much afraid you miss the point!
Every child deserves a mother and father, not a mother and mother or father and father.
Gay folks who want to shack up with members of the opposite sex CHOOSE to be different.
The CHOICE is NOT that you might be gay, THE CHOICE IS HOW YOU ACT!
Do you really think that folks care what you do in the privacy of your own home?
NO WE DO NOT CARE..
BUT...
When you try to REDEFINE MARRIAGE and try to redefine FAMILY that's when we start to care!
Is it possible that gay marriage would be a cultural norm now, if the church hadn't systematically persecuted gays throughout history? At some point, it was the Church putting their will on the people that made this not happen sooner. So stop pretending you've been playing nice up to this point.
Besides, family is in the home. Start actually protecting their privacy in the home and butt out. Or at least, find out how children of gay couples turn out. You may be surprised to find out how wrong you are in assuming it's bad for them.
Great.
Then put you efforts into stopping divorce- the one marital subject that Jesus did comment on- and forbid.
Avery child deserves a mother and father- true- but not a broken household.
You loonies always seems to want to dance around the fact that divorce does more damage to marriages than "gays" do..
It's not a case of re-defining marriage. It's a case of civil liberties and discrimination.
There is no LEGAL basis for disallowing a gay couple the sacrament of marriage. For instance, you can deny a person's desire to kill someone as that would deprive the other person of their right to live. However, there is no situation in which a gay marriage would violate anybody's rights.
In this country, discrimination is something to be stamped out, regardless the source. You may not agree with the Neo Nazi's marching down your street, but you must protect their right to voice their opinion, lest you lose the right to voice your own.
You may not agree with the idea of gay marriage, but you must protect the concept of freedom from discrimination, lest you are discriminated against yourself in your own marriage to a person of a different race, to a person of a different religious belief, to a person of a different political view, to a person with a disability, to a person of a different economic level, to a person of whatever differences there are that can divide people.
Resolutions to prohibit gay people the right to marry whomever they choose to are discriminatory and have no basis in logical fact or legal thought to recommend them.
That is what this is all about.
The issue is not about "Shaking up". The issue is about SPOUSAL RIGHTS for committed same sex couples.
Health benefits afforded to Heterosexual couples, but denied to gay couples. Hospital visitation, presumed power of attorney and next of kin status. Inheritance without litigation.
An to top it off, denied access to a income tax filing status determined by a religious precept. A flagrant violation of the First Amendment Rights.
Or are you so closed minded that you do not see these injustices.
I find it interesting that Proposition H8 is funded by a "Christian" Sect that embraces Members who define Marriage as a holy union between 50 year old pedophiles and mulitple per-pubescent teenage girls.
Now that’s are redefinition we can do without.
Every child deserves a caring PARENT, period. Anything less than that is detremental to the child. My own parents were heterosexual, and yet nothing seemed to stop them from yelling at each other, and affecting my well being. Eventually they divorced. But I guess my rights were not violated in any way because they were heterosexual, and anything goes.
Your CHOICE is not that you might be a bible thumper, THE CHOICE IS HOW YOU ACT!
Do you really think that folks care who you pray to in the privacy of your own home?
NO WE DO NOT CARE...
BUT...
When to try to REDEFINE my natural rights and redefine the Constitution, that's when we start to care!
For the second time in a week, homeowners in South San Jose have been targeted for their support of a proposition that would change the California constitution to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman.
Unlike the previous incident where no law was broken, the culprits who spray-painted large "No on 8" messages Sunday night on the garage doors of two homes on a cul-de-sac near Monterey and Bernal roads could face jail time and a fine if arrested and convicted. San Jose police were called to the scene and filed a report, according to the homeowners.
The maximum sentencing for felony vandalism conviction is three years in state prison and/or a $10,000 fine, according to a spokeswoman for the Santa Clara County District Attorney's Office.
http://www
Do you ask the children if they don't want a mother or father? Or do you decide for them?
You know I couldn't understand why 65% of Utahans are voting for McCain/Palin given the horrible performance of Republican stewardship over the last 8 years.
Now I understand that an ill conceived protracted war, crushing deficits, a ruinous economy, a politicized judiciary, and a very risky Republican ticket just don't compare to the Armageddon of gay marriage in the minds of Utahans.
I mean really, what could be more damaging to your family in Utah than a few gay California couples getting survivorship and parental rights for their families.
Thank you, Fran!
I'm Jewish and my girl friend is black. We know that we are the real target that these bigots are after. If 8 passes, their next move will be to outlaw interracial marriages and repeal the Loving vs. Virginia decision. Nobody has the right to tell me or my girlfriend who we can or cannot love. That's why we're voting NO on 8 and we contributed to No on 8 too!
josephebacon,
Oh come off it, who gave you that idea?
My cousin, who is white, married a nice BLACK girl...
IN THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!
Please do some homework!
WTF "Bacon?" I don't think ANY Jewish or Muslim person would adopt Bacon as a name even just for his online handle.
Yes, but there was a time when your cousin would have been legally barred from doing that. Sadly, in 16 states that time was barely 41 years ago. In California, that was 60 years ago. Josephebacon's point is well taken that once people are successful in targeting one disfavored minority for ill treatment there is no telling how far they will go once momentum is on their side.
"Nobody has the right to tell me or my girlfriend who we can or cannot love. That's why we're voting NO on 8 and we contributed to No on 8 too!"
- Well, that's kind of the essence of this whole argument and it's what the CA Supreme court based both of its landmark marriage rulings on. The freedom to marry means little if it does not encompass the right to marry the person of one's choice. Anti-marriage equality folks always say that the freedom to marry is only the right to marry a person of the opposite sex. Similary, in 1948 the state asserted that interracial marriage bans didn't violate the constitution because each person was free to marry only within their race & that should be good enough. The concurring opinion on the landmark 1948 CA Supreme Court case Perez v Sharp addressed this fallacy quite eloquently: "Human beings are bereft of worth and dignity by a doctrine that would make them as interchangeable as trains." It was true in 1948 and remains so in 2008.
No on prop 8!
You really make no sense.
amen ..
the LDS mormon church also owns TONS of stock in COCA COLA.
(around the time they purchased the stock, the great prophet kimball had a "sudden revelation" and told the church members that it was ok to drink cokes) !
what perfect timing, huh ?
Drinking COCA COLA is small compared with the Mormon hypocrisy regarding bigamy. While they are spending money and effort to pass Prop 8, they do nothing about bigamy. This is not unsubstantiated information. A distant relative, now an older woman, has been living in a bigamous relationship all of her married life, in Salt Lake City. Her relationship is open and accepted by her Mormon neighhbors. Between them the two wives have produced 14 children. Anyone who cared about upholding the laws of both Utah and the US would have had an easy time of following up on this situation.
the LDS "church" does not, i repeat, DOES NOT donate their money to outside charities.
all that CASHOLA that rolls in each month is re-invested into their corporations.
(you can google a TIME MAGAZINE article on the mormon "church" -- it's not a church, it's MASSIVE CORPORATION -- a real eye-opening article).
they own companies such as BENEFICIAL LIFE INSURANCE, AgRESERVES (the largest producer of nuts in the country), HAWAII RESERVES PROPERTIES, etc etc.
it's big business folks, and none of that cash is going to ANY outside charities.
I voted no on 8 even though I was kicked out of a lesbian bar in San Francisco because I was the wrong gender. I thought it was a biker bar, with all the motorcycles in front, but no. Anyway a little tolerance all around is called for.
Men are not "kicked out" of public places. However, like any public establishment, these venues reserve the right to keep order and expel people from their property who are disturbing paying patrons.
Also,...wh
If it was a Chuckie Cheeze full of screaming 5 year olds, would you stay? Would it interest you or would you leave immediately? Normal single guys with no kids would just leave. If a bunch of you hung around, learing at the kids and offering to buy them pizza, that would be really weird, and the parents would approach you and ask you what you want. Same thing in a lesbian bar. What is it you want? I fail to understand your interest in staying at a bar with no other guys, and no single girls. .....
Another thought for the "Protect Traditional Marriage" crowd. I have not heard of one single instance or complaint that a marriage license has been refused to a heterosexual couple during the time since same-sex marriage has been declared constitutional in California. So...isn't their right to marriage pretty much protected already?
Is this America?? OMG Even Spain, the most religious country, has gay marriage!
My friends in Canada think that this Prop 8 is the most ridiculous thing on the ballot because it shouldn't be up to the choice of bigots to vote on our rights.
They look at the $60million spent on ads and give me the tard look and I totally agree with them.
We are in an economic crisis and could have spent $60mil on so much other important things than hatred and bigotry such as hunger in the U.S., Katrina victims who are *still* homeless, and oh, the homeless in Calif.
I wonder....
I hope to someday look back at old commercials and say, "omg remember when we couldn't marry who we wanted to??"
If you would rather live in Spain. go for it.
No, we would rather live in America. A tolerant America.
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