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Frank Dwyer

Frank Dwyer

Posted: February 11, 2008 02:27 AM

What's Wrong with Superdelegates? Don't Americans Need Deciders?


In a recent post, "My Father the Superdelegate, and Why There's Nothing to Fear," Donnie Fowler attempts to reassure us that when the superdelegates, most of whom "have spent the majority of their lives serving the Democratic Party," choose the Democratic nominee, they will choose, from their "perspective and wisdom," the very nominee we ought to have. "Not to worry," he says.

I'm not the only one, I expect, who will not be so easily reassured. I expect, in fact, that Fowler's post has had the unintended effect of increasing both the number of worriers and the intensity of their worry. Why?

The Democratic leadership has failed. The ratings for Congress are lower than Bush's and I've finally come, with great anger and sorrow, to agree that they ought to be. Bush is what he is: a criminal, a disaster. Many oppose him and his policies, his thuggish administration, and his venal, stupid rubber-stamp party. In fact, those in opposition (apparently a majority now) thought they were part of an opposition party. They voted for that party in the midterm elections in 2006 and they won! But despite the retaking of the House and the Senate by the opposition party, there is no real opposition, just a handful of heroes and increasingly anguished howling on the blogs. Impeachment is not only off the table, but the committee investigations that would almost certainly turn up so many smoking guns that we would be rid of this smirking pestilence have apparently all been stalled or stopped. Subpoena power! Remember when you thought that would matter? Senators Schumer and Feinstein voted to allow Mukasey's nomination out of the Judiciary Committee, so that he could be confirmed by a Democratically-controlled Senate, to theirs and its eternal shame. Mukasey had testified that Bush has the power to choose which laws he will follow and which laws he will ignore. If you had to define fascism in one sentence, you could hardly do better.

Many of us supported Kucinich, then Edwards, and now Obama in the hope not only that the greedy, mean-spirited corporatism of the right and center could be halted or reversed and that the illegal, ignorant, mismanaged war would be swiftly brought to an end, but also (and most important) that the American people, so ignorant of the Constitution and the meaning of democracy, so badly frightened by the chickenhawk demagogues and the collaborationist press, could be pulled back from the lazy, easy slide into fascism.

Mr. Fowler speaks of the lifelong commitment of these failed leaders to "the Democratic Party and its ideals." What ideals? Raising the minimum wage? Supporting public television? Voting to "authorize" George W. Bush to make war on Iraq whenever he, the unitary Decider, deemed it good strategery? Voting for the FISA extension? Voting to fund the war? Condemning the war for its botched execution ("too little, too late"), instead of denouncing it as morally and criminally wrong from the beginning? Voting for Telecom immunity? Refusing to impeach for high crimes and misdemeanors, or even to investigate them? Voting for the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, so Bush and Cheney and shock-and-awe will be ready the next time Iranian speedboats threaten our warships?

Many of us were hoping, in these primaries, to make an end run around our party's failed leadership and vote for a nominee very different from whatever candidate might, for whatever reason, receive their collective imprimatur. We think it is essential to have a progressive nominee to contest the national election with the tax-cut endless-war Republican nominee. Essential. That's what we're voting for. It is becoming clearer and clearer that the establishment corporate centrist leaders have a different plan, a different candidate, and they are arrogantly certain that we will go along with their choice (what else can we do?), so that whatever else changes it will still be, one way or another, "business as usual" in Washington, and they will all get to move up to the really good places at the same old trough, while the Republican kine begin their 4 (or 8 or 16, hooray!) lean years. They are sure that the Democratic and independent voters now galvanized and having such a good old time in the long circus of the primaries, voting for this one and that one, caucusing, watching the debates, listening to the pundits, arguing at the water-cooler, wearing buttons and sporting bumper-stickers, all those happy warriors will follow the lead of the leaders, when they have to, when the choice is between the selected super-nominee, a nominal Democrat, and the nominal Republican.

Some of us won't.

 
 
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10:26 AM on 02/12/2008
Whether the Democratic party wins or loses this year, they will still be around next year, most likely. If they win, they will have a terrible mess on their hands. Recalling LBJ, a clever way to handle this is to turn it over to the Repos. Certainly, there are Repos visiting here who appreciate that the Demos are willing to lose the election rather than win it, for the sake of principle. Is this a 'Win/Win Situation', or what?

One Hundred Years in Iraq! Go For It!

The party that gets US into the mess will get US out, or destroy US in the process.

But that's just the way it's meant to be.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
ReasonIsMyReligion
Don't know much micro-bio-logy
06:19 PM on 02/11/2008
My comment on Donnie "Trust my Daddy" Fowler's post did NOT appear. Censorship!

Why? I called him out on his conflict of interest -- he did NOT disclose in his post he had worked in the Clinton administration, though it IS in his HuffBio.

Sheesh.
03:59 PM on 02/11/2008
Notice how that it's usually the Clinton supporters who urge that everyone should vote for the Democratic nominee no matter what. It's as if they've that already figured out that Clinton will steal the nomination somehow.

Sorry, but I will not vote for Clinton. The DLC and the Clintons are slowly eroding the party. After eight more years there will be nothing left.
05:52 PM on 02/11/2008
true, but the dems, broken as they are, are infinitely better then the rethugs.

I'm not enjoying these fake primaries, but it is my responsibility to vote dem this 2008.

Find and support the Read Dems for your local races.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
justsaynotofascism
08:09 PM on 02/11/2008
The alternative is much worse in my opinion.

McCain has promised us more wars.

John (bomb 'em all) Bolton has been put out there as a possible Sec. Of State for McCain.

McCain's #1 advisor is Henry (The War Criminal Extraordinaire) Kissinger.

Do you really want the GOP to install another radical extremist to the Supreme Court? I know I don't.

Barack Obama 2008!
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
ReasonIsMyReligion
Don't know much micro-bio-logy
03:34 PM on 02/11/2008
Great post. Huzzah.

Also note the Mr. "Trust My Daddy" HIMSELF worked in the Clinton administration.

Not that there's anything wrong with that at all -- but he could have and SHOULD have disclosed that in his post.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
standforpeace
03:14 PM on 02/11/2008
One awesome thing that is coming out of this election is that it is exposing all of the smoke and mirrors in American politics. The Democratic and Republican parties are simply private clubs that have reached some common understandings on how power is to be gained (an insider route through party channels). All that the parties have ever wanted from the American people is ratification of the choices made by party leaders. What we're seeing on the Democratic side and to a lesser extent on the Republican side is a simple misunderstanding at work. Apparently the millions of voters in the primaries and caucuses thought that this was an actual representative democracy in which the citizens select those who will represent them rather than understanding that they were engaged in a conditional election. The voters' choices will only be respected on the condition that they coincide with the choice of the party elite. We already knew that our choices were severely limited those candidates who could raise the funds to run in an election driven by obscene amounts of cash. Now we're finding that the corruption of democracy is far, far worse.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
indypete
02:56 PM on 02/11/2008
None of this really matters... Diebold is going to pick the president, no matter who gets what votes, no matter what the delegates or superdelegates say. The machines are guaranteed to be bent. I don't want to sound like a luddite, but every voter needs to take a squirt gun into the booth filled with salty water and disable these machines so we can get back to pieces of paper that can be counted and recounted instead of trusting the campaign-donating corporate manufacturer of a computer system that makes sure the quie pro quo is taken care of.
03:45 PM on 02/11/2008
Aside from that being a felony, that sounds like a reasonable idea.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
indypete
03:27 AM on 02/12/2008
You're right, of course, the fun shit always is illegal!
photo
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
indypete
03:58 AM on 02/13/2008
Come to think of it, wasn't the shit that Washington ans Jefferson and all those guys pulled a felony? They didn't get their pictures on the post office, they got their pictures on our money.
02:02 PM on 02/11/2008
"Super delegates" is just a shiny way of saying:

"incumbent party leaders and elected officials."

The same DLC.ORG dems who lied to us about ending the war.

It's just more DLC.ORG bull. In 1980 when they brought the "party insider delegates" back, they picked Mondale over Hart.

The incumbent dems will go to Hillary, probably. Hillary has been the chair for the DLC, Obama has been trying to distance himself from them.
01:54 PM on 02/11/2008
The American people do what they are told and believe what they are told to believe. So when Hillary is appointed by the same people who worked for her husband, they will just accept it and go shopping. I just can't wait for that inevitable scene at a Republican rally when they all start saluting their nominee en masse. I wonder if they will all wear brown shirts too?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mommadona
I paint. I blog. Therefore, I am.
01:33 PM on 02/11/2008
"It is becoming clearer and clearer that the establishment corporate centrist leaders have a different plan, a different candidate, and they are arrogantly certain that we will go along with their choice (what else can we do?), so that whatever else changes it will still be, one way or another, "business as usual" in Washington, and they will all get to move up to the really good places at the same old trough, while the Republican kine begin their 4 (or 8 or 16, hooray!) lean years. They are sure that the Democratic and independent voters now galvanized and having such a good old time in the long circus of the primaries, voting for this one and that one, caucusing, watching the debates, listening to the pundits, arguing at the water-cooler, wearing buttons and sporting bumper-stickers, all those happy warriors will follow the lead of the leaders, when they have to, when the choice is between the selected super-nominee, a nominal Democrat, and the nominal Republican.

Some of us won't."

MANY of us won't.

MANY will just stay home.

MANY see how this two party thingie works.

MANY are NOT AMUSED....

"Back in the USSR, Back in the USSR
You don't know how lucky you are babe
To be BACK, BACK, BACK in the USSR"

Nancy of the Dancing Eyes - get ready dear.

You haven't seen ANYTHING yet.

(And I really really want to know - WHO IS THEIR 'SUGAR DADDY' - who DO they owe fealty and loyalty to?)
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
justsaynotofascism
12:43 PM on 02/11/2008
The party elite had better think long and hard about taking the vote from We The People and deciding the nominee by themselves.

A new Progressive party might be very appealing to a lot of dissatisfied dems (after they stay home or vote for another party's candidate this November).
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
JimR
01:53 PM on 02/11/2008
They wouldn't be taking votes from anybody. Voters don't select superdelegates. And the decision of superdelegates is only significant this year because voters are split between the 2 remaining candidates, which will likely result in neither having the simple majority of total delegates.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
standforpeace
04:18 PM on 02/11/2008
So why not give the nomination to the candidate with the most delegates in the primaries and caucuses even if neither has 50%? How do we arrive at a fairer choice by allowing Super Delegates to throw the race to a contestant who actually gets fewer delegates in the primaries/caucuses than the candidate who is snubbed by the Super Delegates?
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
justsaynotofascism
08:14 PM on 02/11/2008
I don't like the fact that super delegates don't have to vote with any constituency. They are politicans and party elite. I don't like the idea of possible favors being repaid or backroom deals being made.


Also, this worries me:

The Three Co-Chairs of the DNC Delegate Credentials Committee All Served in Clinton Administration

http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/editorblog/036
11:53 AM on 02/11/2008
Bill Clinton and Terry McAuliffe are both Superdelegates. Their biased votes will offset (disenfranchise) all the voters in the Virgin Islands.
11:49 AM on 02/11/2008
Frankly, this election isn't about you or reassuring you. LOL*

It's about the Democratic primary. Remember the Democrats? The party of the people?

WE have a system. WE will honor the system.

And those who are worried about it?

I don't really get it. Why?

Think your guy won't be able to convince the Super Delegates?

Why the fear?

Perhaps you've noticed he's been pretty insulting to Democrats?

Hmmmmmm*

I've noticed it. Maybe he SHOULD worry.
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
JimR
01:45 PM on 02/11/2008
"WE have a system. WE will honor the system."

Yeah, I'm not getting the hand-wringing here. Keep the rules the same. The superdelegates can back whoever they want. Ideally, the voters decide the nominee, but this year it's likely the voters will be deadlocked, and that each remaining candidate will have less than 2,025 delegates. So this year, the superdelegates' choice will mean more.

This strikes me as yet another example of the Democrats being spineless.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
standforpeace
04:24 PM on 02/11/2008
What none of you folks who take this line seem to get is that the reason the remaining candidates will have less than the 2025 needed to win from the primaries and caucuses is because 20% of the delegates are Super Delegates. So your argument is circular. We have to count the Super Delegates because otherwise no one will have the number of delegates needed to win. But the number of delegates needed to win is based on getting half of all of the delegates (including the Super Delegates). So eliminate the 800 or so Super Delegates from consideration altogether. Now instead of needing 2025 out of 4050, you would only need 1600 (approximately) out of the 3200 delegates that are decided in the primaries/caucuses.
11:47 AM on 02/11/2008
Bill Clinton and Terry McAuliffe are both Superdelegates. Their biased votes will offset (disenfranchise) all the voters in the Virgin Islands.
11:29 AM on 02/11/2008
It's a difficult question, what role, if any, the superdelegates should play. I think that a significant majority in the popular votes should easily warrant that candidates nomination. However, what are we supposed to do if the vote is 1 or 2% off? Vote again? They should act as tie breakers, in which case I would trust their opinion over the people who are deciding 1-3 days before they vote based on campaign commercials and celebrity endorsements.

reference: http://politicalmaelstrom.blogspot.com/2008/02/superdelegates-give-hillary-lead-on.html
HUFFPOST PUNDIT
JimR
01:59 PM on 02/11/2008
I think that party rules say the nominee must get a simple majority (2,025) of the total delegates available. Party rules also state superdelegates can vote for whoever they want.

I'm not sure why Democrats are now thinking of not following their own rules.
03:59 PM on 02/11/2008
Could the Democrats not change their own rules?
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
standforpeace
04:27 PM on 02/11/2008
Because the rules can act to negate the will of the voters in favor of the will of party hacks. If my vote is being disregarded in the selection of the candidate in favor of the preference of party elites, exactly why should I come out and support THEIR candidate in November.

This goes beyond the fact that the Democratic candidate will be a better fit for me than the Republican candidate on policy. This is about whether or not we are going to have a representative form of government in this country or an oligarchy.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
vsign
11:14 AM on 02/11/2008
The caucus states have messed everything up. These states save money by having caucus' instead of primaries. This year, the caucus' got taken over by Obama supporters. Yes, they were more energized to spend 3 hours to vote than working people. Yes, Obama had more money to organize in these states (Oprah $). He has racked up his delegate count primarily from these states. But the white people who voted in these caucus' are the elites and the pacifists!!

Now the super delegates need to set this right for working people who did not get a chance to vote in a primary. If the Democratic Party, that I love, is going to keep the working class members, the super delegates need to help us. Out of the two candidates left standing, Hillary represents the working class. Do it to keep the party, that I love, together.
HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
justsaynotofascism
11:57 AM on 02/11/2008
"This year, the caucus' got taken over by Obama supporters. Yes, they were more energized to spend 3 hours to vote than working people."


--- What the hell are you talking about? My neighbors and fellow caucus mates are as hard working as anyone else. How dare you! Elites & pacifists? Try average people struggling to make ends meet in this f'cked economy. We are the working class and I resent your line of BS. We spent those couple of hours caucusing AFTER the day's work ended.


"Now the super delegates need to set this right for working people who did not get a chance to vote in a primary."


--- Those who vote(d) in primaries have(had) MORE of a chance to vote as the polls are open morning, afternoon, and evening. NOT SO for caucuses.

Either you're extremely ill-informed, or you're a Hillary propagandist. Which is it?
12:50 PM on 02/11/2008
"Oprah money"? Yeah, she did some fundraisers for him, as other celebs have for Clinton. But it's Obama who has a vastly larger base of small-money, grassroot donors. It's Hillary that has a smaller base of big-money backers, including the "Defense" Industry, which has given her more money than even any Republican candidate! As for caucuses, the Obama campaign chose to invest in them while Clinton chose to ignore them and focus on the big states.
And since Clinton's race-baiting ghettoization of Obama consolidated his African American vote nationwide, but only consolidated the white vote for Clinton (and too a much lesser degree) in the Deep South, now you want to complain that Obama's overwhelming support in virtually all-white states is due to white "elites and pacifists"? Obama won the white vote in Cali and the majority of white Californians are not "elites." Cross-over Obamacan Repubs are no more "elite" than Reagan Democrats.
How can you possibly justify a call for superdelegates to go potentially against the will of those who VOTED, and argue that such defiance is a defense of the popular will? It's you who is defending elitism by encouraging superdelegates to exercise free will in Clinton's favor even if it's counter to the voting.