Yesterday when I stopped by to pick up my daughter, my parents were both sitting at the kitchen table. "So who do you think is going to be the vice-presidential pick?" my mother asked. It was a rhetorical question because she immediately said, " If he doesn't pick Hillary, he's going to lose." She said it with enough force to make me think it might be true, but she's my mother, so I'm susceptible to her pronouncements. "But who do you think it will be?"
Because this is my family I know we are talking about the Democrats.
I reminded her that I was the one so sure that John Edwards should have been the nominee, so I'm not exactly a fountain of predictive wisdom, but then went on to express my mystification that Wesley Clark doesn't even seem to be on a short list.
The General is a formidable military presence and needing military experience is the only real true reason I have ever seen for Barack Obama to choose anyone else but Clinton. (Yes, I know Bill Clinton would be a spousal nuisance in a Clinton pick, but he's become like the national Uncle Arthur, problematic and not welcome at the family dinners, but he'll pop in and things will get lively while everyone rolls their eyes; we would deal).
"A lot of people are talking about Biden," I said.
It was the Biden to Clinton trajectory I kept hearing about in the days before the Iowa Caucuses in the coffee shop in the town square, in Indianola Iowa. The coffee shop was frequented by retired farmers, and shopkeepers from the square and it was from them that I routinely heard, either through active eavesdropping or the direct interview, several people state that Senator Joe Biden was their first choice, but if he turned out not to be viable (receiving 15% of the precinct vote), their second choice would be Hillary Clinton. There was an alternative to this game plan for Biden or Senator Chris Dodd supporters, which was to go with John Edwards or Bill Richardson as second or third choice. "Whichever of the bottom three is viable is the one I'll go with," said my friend Todd. "I'm sick of money and media determining the election."
The Biden to Clinton movement, however, was common because many people saw them as having the same basic platform and saw both as able to walk into office and know what they are doing from day one. As Biden said, "if it's experience we are after, I'm elected." Among the people I'd spoken to who choose Biden first and then Clinton, the reasoning had been that although the platforms were very similar, Biden was the less divisive figure. This might be the same rational Obama has, should Biden be the one tapped for the vice-presidency. I'm just not sure the safer choice right now is really the safer choice.
I had the opportunity to see Joe Biden on New Year's Day at the Indianola Warren County Administration Building with a crowd of approximately 150 people. The crowd got substantially bigger with the arrival of Biden's family. Somebody who looked like a fake Joe Biden arrived, with less hair and not as white teeth, along with an elderly woman and people speculated, rightly, that this was his brother Jimmy. His 90-year-old mother was also along: "Joey, you need my help."
Valerie Biden Owens introduced her brother telling the story about how Biden, elected at 29-years old, too young to be a Senator, received a call saying his wife and daughter had been killed in an accident, and later survived two cranial aneurysms [http://www.neurosurgerytoday.org/what/patient_e/cranial.asp]. Biden looked away through a window of a door he was standing near, while his sister told this story.
Owens was funny and impassioned about her brother, but as promised she didn't lift him up to be larger than life. She lifted him up to be a trooper.
When Biden took the podium he said he thought that this was the most important election in people's life span. He reinforced the fact that Pakistan is a threat--"a population larger than Russia--a state in a state of chaos, with nuclear capabilities... And here we are worrying about Iran developing a nuclear weapon sometime in the future. Pakistan is where Osama Bin Laden lives." He talked about his habit of getting things done while others are talking about it, and he invoked his participation in writing the Violence Against Women Act [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act] "While others talked I got it done."
He asked the room to consider which candidate they wanted to go up against the Republican nominee, which candidate they thought wasn't going to be vulnerable to charges of not being tough enough against terrorism? "I have done more than Rudy Guilliani ever thought about terrorism. Who do you want to go up against Mike Huckabee and his family values?"
"I have had it up to here," Biden said, making a cutting gesture across his throat, with people telling me about my family values," and here he hit a nerve because people started applauding and whistling and it was impossible to hear what he said next and he had to shout. By the time the clapping and whistling finally died out he was still shouting. Before the volume is adjusted to account for the new silence the last phrase shouted was "and I would like to know where in the Gospel it says torture is OK."
Biden said, "On caucus night if you stand up for Joe Biden, you will be surprised at how many people stand up next to you," and I thought from conversations I had been overhearing, he was right, but at our caucus he didn't even come close to being viable.
And now maybe he is.
Before we had two nominees, everywhere I went-- train trips, coffee shops, airport--I overheard people talking about the election, excitedly. And then the conversation died down. The last time I overheard anything about the election was in O'Hare airport a couple months ago, where a young woman and an older woman were bemoaning the state of the world. "I think it will get better after the election," said the young woman. " I don't know if McCain will be able to fix everything," said the older woman.
And in a few months, so many sad things have happened within the Democratic party-- Ted Kennedy's brain tumor, the John Edwards mess, Stephanie Tubbs Jones death-- that it seems like the Democratic convention could be as funereal as celebratory.
It's almost as if all we have to look forward to now are the vice-presidential picks, and so the kitchen table and the coffee shop conversations pick up again. At the point I'm writing this, I guess only a few people know who is going to be the vice-presidential nominee for the Democrats and I'm not sure if anyone knows who is going to be the Republican nominee. I think I stand with my mother (she is often right) in thinking that the winning ticket for Obama would include Clinton, but I also include my thoughts that if it isn't Clinton, what McCain should do to ensure a win, is put Condoleezza Rice on his ticket. Someone needs to do something unexpected.
"Is she pro-life?" my father said. "That's all they care about."
And my last thought is this: I came out of the Warren County Administrative building not exactly a Joe Biden supporter but as an American who was proud he was in the Senate, and while I don't think picking him would be the best game plan choice, he is still a candidate of which Democrats could be proud.
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Masterful judgement
OBAMA 0812
If Biden overwhelms Obama, why, in the end, was Obama vetting him?
Biden is very strong on womens' issues; maybe even stronger than Hillary.
"He took defeat like a man: he blamed it on his wife. She took defeat like a woman: she blamed it on sexism."
Hillary and Bill will now campaign for Obama. And to those diehard Hillarites who still want to boycott the Clintons' effort to ensure a Democrativc victory by voting for McCain, I say only two words: "Supreme Court".
I am appalled at the attempted conflation of Hillary with Joe Biden. Hillary is not Biden and if their platforms are similar, I am willing to bet the platforms of many of the Democrats in congress are also similar.
Joe Biden's son , leaves for duty in Iraq shortly. Hillary's only child is making big bucks working on wall street in a cushy hedge fund job, probably procured for her by her parents. Well, unless you count dodging sniper fire with her mom as service to the country.
Hillary is a junior Senator, a carpetbagger ,whose main purpose in running in easy New York, especially with her money and name recognition,was to propel her onward toward the presidency. Biden is head of the Senate Foreign Relations committee and has served the people of the US in the congress for thirty-six years . Ah, but Hillary's " similar platform" erases that ? Right--her "experience" is the same as Biden's if you couint her days as first lady, where she solved the problem in Ireland. Not.
Hillary's stumbling block is Bill and the reasons are multiple as to why. Joe Biden has a wife, who is a working mom, and who has been involved in improving education in this country for a long time. Never mind the "similar" platforms--these facts are what voters will be impressed by and by all accounts,Jill Biden is a down to earth, unaffected and a real nice person.
There is more but not enough room.
.
I can run down the list of reasons why Obama did not pick Hillary, but I would be here all day. Do you think he forgot the type of campaign she ran against him? Do you think he forgot that she extended the primary fight 3 months longer than it had to be, and now her supporters are demanding HE pick up the dime for it? And ask yourself this, why would he want his presidency compromised by two Clintons? I don't think he wants to look back 20 years from now, if he should win, and see that his presidency is remembered more for the Clintons than for his accomplishments.
Anyway, all of the Hillary for VP stuff was a media creation.
Biden is also very popular with the Jewish lobby which had misgivings about Obama. This will definitely help to lay them at rest. McCain would now have to pick Lieberman to counter that, but he would not be as helpful as Romney.
You spoke to people who felt Biden was a less divisive figure than Mrs. Bill Clinton?
Your bio doesn't mention the years you've obviously spent as an investigative journalist.
For those democrats who say that they won't vote Obama if Hillary is on the ticket -- you're as immature as those Hillary supporters who won't vote Obama! Be gone with all of you! As a black woman and from a long line of democrats (most of whom support Obama), I feel that it is my duty to support the smartest, most sensible, best problem solver running on the ticket. Between Obama and McCain, that person is CLEARLY Obama! That said, I still support Sen Hillary Clinton, and would vote for her in a second if I could. So, I hope that Obama realizes that whatever minus' that Hillary brings to the ticket (like her supposedly "firing up" the Republican base, or Bill's issues), she also brings a ton of extremely FIERY and dedicated supporters who will VOTE for her. As for Hillary not being "vetted" for the VP spot -- why would she need to be vetted. I thought that was what the primaries were for. Anyway, no amount of vetting is enough sometimes -- can we say John Edwards.
Before you can govern, you need to win. There must be political calculations. Unfortunately, a ticket with a black man for President AND a white woman for VP is probably more than large segments of our population can handle right now.
The Democratic Party is already taking a huge gamble by nominating Barack Obama. They don't need to double down of that bet.
Here is the thing, if Hillary had acted like she had some sense, and withdrawn from the race when she lost NC by 20, she would have been the VP. Even if she had conceded the night Obama hit 2025 she might have been. But she didn't she clung to her pride instead of her logic or party loyalty and damaged Obama. She did it with malice of forethought, to damage him, to maintain her ability to run in four years. The problem is that if O loses, he has a perfect excuse, Hillary sank him. It makes it possible that he would run in four years and win in the primary again. She didn't help herself at all and she cost herself the VP slot which he would almost have had to give her if she had been gracious in any way shape or form. So, it is over, and just like her campaign HIllary did herself in. Her 11 percent holdouts what Obama needs will have a choice to make and because of Hillary's claims that sexism did her in, I don't know if these women will vote in their own self interest. Obama has bent over backwards for Hillary and that is the problem. He should have taken a hard line right from the beginning, put both her and Bill on Monday night and then moved on.
J
Right on jcwtts1 -- you hit it on the nail!
Hillary was going to continue her "drama" had she been chosen for the VP slot. Only a few weeks ago, Bill Clinton could not answer the question posed by a reporter in Africa ... "is Obama ready to be president?"
I knew then Obama would never pick Hillary, he just can never not trust her or Bill! He needs to start fresh with people he can rely on and trust.
Obama/Biden - way to go!
Hillary has not been vetted, at least by Obama.
Many of her supporters do not want her on the ticket as VP; it's presidential nominee or nothing.
As an Obama supporter, I will not vote for a ticket that includes her. This isn't "immaturity," it's about keeping Obama safe. Being a Clinton supporter, you may not appreciate the depth of the concerns we have, but many Obama supporters do. Another argument against an Obama/Clinton ticket is the likelihood that two Clintons messing about in the WH would lay waste to Obama's agenda and compromise his leadership--and he'd take the rap.
And two days ago, she referred to him as her "opponent. Why would we treat her as a benign force when she still sees Obama as the enemy?
Using your same argument then you should have nothing to say when H supporters state they will not vote O.
You are so totally right. I'd also like to see more Obama supporters step up to the maturity plate and stop still trying to defeat Hillary. If only they were as zealous in defeating McCain. But, Obama has more problems among white males than among women, so I think he'll pick a white male to pull some off the fence.
I am a life long democrat (over 40 years of voting). IMHO Biden is too strong a politician to be Obama"s V.P. he will always overshadow Obama. When they stand next to each other Obama"s youth and inexperience is clearly evident. Biden is presidential material. Hillary on the other hand seems to complements Obama. Can they work together? Who really knows.
Ha, what a hoot! Typical white male assumption.
Leadership is an intangible quality; some people can be a leader at 20, others are still fools at 60.
If you are so impressed with experience, go with Rumsfeld-Cheney; they have 65 years of experience between them.
Mozart wrote music at ~9, Einstein wrote the Theory of Special Relativity at ~29; by 60, the human brain has long been in a decline.
And Michelangelo created two of the greatest works of art--the Pieta and the David--before he was 29.
Creativity, genius and the ability to solve problems isn't related to age. I think Mr. Obama's plan to select someone who isn't a "yes man" among other qualities shows exactly how good a leader he will make.
Obama '08!
Overshadow him? I don't think so.
Where Biden seems too glib and cold with an insincere smile--Obama seems thoughtful, sincere, and genuinely warm.
Biden can talk a lot without saying much (I like him! Really! But he sometimes -is- in love with the sound of his own voice.)
Obama is measured and eloquent, usually speaking clearly and without condescension.
Where Biden sometimes seems eager to show off how much he knows on a subject, Obama never does. He has the conciseness (usually) of the born writer (which--if you read his books--he IS).
Biden is smart, but I think Obama is much smarter.
They are both quick studies, but Obama has shown better judgment (Iraq, and some Bush policies).
Obama is even taller, though they will make a striking pair on stage.
I like Biden, but in no way do I think he overshadows Obama. Quite the contrary.
Frankly, I think Bill would end up overshadowing Obama. Biden on the other hand, strikes me as a loyal fighter type who could would scrap for Obama and the ticket rather than Joe Biden.
That cuts both ways though. If Biden is too strong a politician, then Clinton is too strong a name. Between them and the Bush's they've dominated our politics as long as I've been able to vote.
I really don't think overshadowing is an issue, and with all the pressure and focus on Obama, he might not even mind being overshadowed for a while!
Too many people who support Obama would not vote for him if his VP is Hillary. For as much as she is loved by her 18 mil, she is hated by more. Biden is the best bet
Hillary was never even considered. I bet Obama told her that right away at their secret meeting at Mrs. Feinstein's house. Hillary and Bill will now both campaign for Obama and a Democratic win in November. To those Hillarites who want to boycott the Clintons' effort and still refuse to vote Democratic, I just say two words: "Supreme Court".
I don't think is true. I think it's a false story line. There are a lot of people who don't like Hillary Clinton and they to be passionate in their dislike and loud, so they seem like more than they are. Sometimes I think of them as those torch carrying people in the streets of the movie Frankenstein.
I think she has far more admirers than detractors, even though some of them (and I count myself among these) are somewhat grudging admirers.
Gale
Can you cite any polling to support your notion that Hillary's positives outweigh her negatives? I haven't seen any.
I agree. I have seen and heard very few people who would consider switching to McCain or sitting home if Hillary is the VP.
Another note, I agree it isn't likely to happen, but I disagree with the notion that it's the only way to win. It's a long way to the election and anything can happen, predicting win or lose on one pick is a long shot at best.
I don't think it will be Hillary. According to Politico she was not even vetted:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12713.html
Posted August 22, 2008 | 01:33 AM (EST)