Unsolicited Advice to the Government of Iran
Presuming that you are not actually ignorant enough to desire war with the United States, you might be well advised to read the history of the sinking of the U.S.S. Maine in Havana harbor in 1898 and the history of the Gulf of Tonkin in 1964.
Having done so, you will surely recognize that Americans are reluctant to go to war unless attacked. Until Pearl Harbor, we were even reluctant to get involved in World War II. For historians of American wars the question is whether we provoke provocations.
Given the unilateral U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, you are obviously thinking the rules have changed. Provocation is no longer required to take America to war. But even in this instance, we were led to believe that the mass murderer of American civilians, Osama bin Laden, was lurking, literally or figuratively, in the vicinity of Baghdad.
Given all this, you would probably be well advised to keep your forces, including clandestine forces, as far away from the Iraqi border as you can. You might even consider bringing in some neighbors to verify that you are not shipping arms next door. Tone down the rhetoric on Zionism. You've established your credentials with those in your world who thrive on that.
If it makes you feel powerful to hurl accusations at the American eagle, have at it. Sticks and stones, etc. But, for the next sixteen months or so, you should not only not take provocative actions, you should not seem to be doing so.
For the vast majority of Americans who seek no wider war, in the Middle East or elsewhere, don't tempt fate. Don't give a certain vice president we know the justification he is seeking to attack your country. That is unless you happen to like having bombs fall on your head.
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Tonkin and The Maine were aberrant examples of the pugnacious response of americans to perceived indignities to our national psyche. Iran may yet serve as a compelling example of a "bridge too far" both for America and Iran. Logic and decency no longer have a seat at the international table. The bullies and the theocratic morons who rule are intent on confrontation and will drag us all, like lemmings, to slaughter. Sad...sad...sad. Good try Gary but no banana. No one's home.
Quo Vadis?
Is Latin for "who gains?". From the standpoint of the men who rule this country, the war in Iraq-and Iran-makes perfect sense. Enormous profits for Halliburton, Bechtel, Blacwater and other GOP companies. And you know that some of that nearly one TRILLION dollars will be kicked back to the GOP for the buying of minds. Possibly, some of that money will be kicked back to the pockests of high officials as well.
And then there is the drug trade. Nasty as they were, the Taliban almost eliminated heroin production. Before the Taliban, and after Bush, Afghanistan is the world's largest heroin exporter. Don't you think they are letting Don Georgio "dip his beak"? Why would BushCo let the Afghans sell all the H , if they are not getting a cut?
And ther is the propaganda value-as Julius Caesar said "beware the man who beats the drums of war...the drumbeat of patriotism narrows the mind even as it heats the blood...the Leader will not have to take the citizen's rights, they will lay their rights at his feet. And i know, for I have done this."
And best of all, the COST OF WAR IS BORNE BY SOMEONE ELSE-US PEASANTS, NOT THE GOP THIEF-ELITE. We pay the taxes, not them. Our children die, not theirs. Any eventual muslim vengeancs will fall on our heads, not theirs.(And probably make us rally to the Leader's cause!)
This is nothing new. It is exactly what Hitler and Mussolini did 60 years ago.Exactly what any number of Kings did for centuries.The only question is-why dont the Democrats at leasst try to stop it? Are they afraid, incompetent, on the take, more interested in personal power than in the welfare of America? All of the above???
While I can agree that everything you mentioned in your comment is flying close to the truth, I respectfully disagree with your assumption and premise that it is the somehow the responsibility of the Democrat party member officials currently in our government to "try to stop it". The republican party officials that are in place and recently held a congressional majority have to agree with the Democrat officials in order for our government to take action. What we have at the moment is a tenuous stalemate in isolated parts of our government. Ask the Republicans filibustering and voting as a block whether they are 'more interested in personal power than in the welfare of America' or 'on the take'. Yes, many of those Democrat officals are weak and lack real leadership skills and a few of them are even corrupt, but for the most part, they are at least on board with wants of the American electorate.
The majority of Democratic Congressmen are eating out of the same war troughs, Sen. Feinstein's hubby is heavily invested in Halliburton; Pelosi's hubby got a $66, 000,000 no bid contract in Iraq for taking impeachment off the Table and Hillary is being financed by the RNC. It took me a long time to see to that scam; the Democratic Party is damned.
If American ground troops are called upon to war in Iran they may find that they will be facing American ordinance. We should remember to thank Bush Sr. for that little fact since it was he who arranged to sell arms to Iran in exchange for the Iranians holding the hostages until after the Carter/Reagan elections.
Didn't they used to hang gunrunners back in the pioneer days for selling weapons to the Indians who then killed settlers. Think of what all those nice tow missiles and other weapons will do to our troops.
If Bush is going to start a war with Iran over their supposed support of insurgents in Iraq then he should remember what Daddy did.
Unfortunatly Men like Bush and Cheney do not get there power out of thin air. Hitler, Mussolini and Tojo did not get there power out of thin air. They had the support of millions of the citizenry. Without the supporters in the ranks they would have been nothing but paper tigers. I am ashamed to say it but it is due to the poor choices and lack of interest in being involved in our countries governance that has gotten us into this mess. We were supposed to be the government and we have failed.
FOR YOUR EDIFICATION, HITLER GOT HIS FINANCING FROM AMERICAN AND BRITISH BANKERS.
HOW DO YOU FIND COMMENTS TO YOUR COMMENTS?
IF A FEW DAYS FROM NOW I WANT TO SEE IF ANYONE
COMMENTED TO SURFERGIRL HOW DO I DO THAT?
THANK YOU
I think you just look at your comment to find my comment on your comment!
If you click on "My Account" OR click on "I'm a fan" for someone, you get the option to be emailed any replies to your comments.
Also, if you install the Opera browser (it's free now), you can select your comment or anyone's comment, right-click it and select to save to note and then any time you can go back and doubleclick on that note and go right to that page! Very, very slick. That's one of many many reasons I love the Opera browser. :-)
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Gary Hart's posting has all kinds of fallacious references. The most flagrant being the Gulf of Tonkin non event.
War with Iran is not in the best interest of the United States. We could mobilize enough forces to invade but the consequences would be devastating to the West. I do not believe Iran is trying to encourage an invasion or a war.
Iran’s goal is to acquire a nuclear capability. The reason is to gain control of all the oil producing nations in the Middle East. In a localized sense Israel and Iran would be at a standoff if both had nuclear weapons (I assume Israel already has them). Iran’s statements about destroying Israel are an appeal to Arab nations to join Iran in opposing their common enemy. In joining together Iran would likely also become the leader of the Arab world against the West. That in turn would give Iran the overwhelming power to effect the West because of their combined oil resources.
Back in college I had a history professor say that the loss of life at Pearl Harbour could have been prevented. Transmissions indicated the Japanese were moving toward them as were submarines. But commanders did nothing. My father was one of the few who escaped when his carrier was sent out some hours before.
As far as Iran goes, there are already carriers in the gulf. I can't imagine its for sight seeing.
Bully from a fellow Democrat who is scared stiff of what this trigger happy group in the White House will do.
"susanlno said
The truth was out there, though not widely publicized, and yet few people seem to have heard it."
Oh, they heard it alright. But since it wasn't what they wanted to hear, they ignored it and went with the lies. I know they heard it. I was proclaiming it loud and clear. And I was called a "nut", "conspiracy theorist", "traitor", "radical", etc... Even to this day, some of those who looked at me funny still think I am a nut, but they now know that I was right back then. They know that their world no longer exists and will never come back. They know now, but it is too late.
I'm with you there Susanino. We went to our congressman, signed petitions, wrote letters, etc. to try to stop this senseless war. Scott Ritter was vilified because he said the weapons were gone after the first gulf war and not only that, all the avenues for Saddam to pursue getting weapons were blocked. So many in positions to know the truth said the same thing but the MSM continued the drumbeat to enrich the corporations at the expense of our kids and our monetary future. My husband, who is a big history buff, and I were the "nuts" too in our area and not one has said, "Hey, you were right".
If I were the president of Iran, with two neighbor countries invaded by us, I would bluster too. What if the Germans invaded and occupied Canada? But, yes, Iran should shut up with these imperial rulers run amok that we have presently. Please don't upset W. He is into pushing buttons much too easy, with Cheney's prodding.
Remember the wonderful war protests all over the world. My son participated in the one in New York City. That was back when you were allowed to protest in the U.S. Now they make you go miles away and cage you in like animals and all you can do is march around in circles far beyond the sight of our beloved President. :-(
I hear you guys loud and clear!
I, too have been saying and writing these things for over forty years now!
And some have been actually proven...after thirty or so!
Trouble is, we don't HAVE thirty years to get to the bottom of seismic-change events like 9/11, which is, I believe, the LINCHPIN of the entire bag of Sh*t the Repugs and Neocons have dumped on us.
Re-investigate THAT, Impeach these f*ckers, and they'll be TOO BUSY to start another war!
Gary Hart's misdirected his unsolicited advice.
If he would listen to the Democratic Presidential Candidates Debate on the same day he posted his advice to the Government of Iran, he would, perhaps, realize that no matter what Iranians do or not do in the future, the Government of the United states will attack Iran either during present administration or shortly after January 2009. As Associated Press reported from "HANOVER, N.H. - The leading Democratic White House hopefuls conceded Wednesday night they cannot guarantee to pull all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by the end of the next presidential term in 2013." While Bush/Cheney gang is doing everything necessary to prepare for the invasion of Iran as explicitly promised on several occasions, while Bush is still in the office, Senators Clinton and Obama will keep all options against Iran (meaning military option) on the table when either of them becomes a new president. There is absolutely no difference between Bush and Clinton as far as rhetoric and execution of military intentions toward Iran, regardless of Iran's behavior.
Thank you for one of the few comments that sees through the rhetIrorical bullshit. Thinking the Democrats are a 'party of peace' or some such is so god damn niave I'm going crazy reading so much foolishness. The rhetorical dog and pony show (gay rights, flag burning, prayer in school etc.) is the only real difference between the two parties and I doubt many, if any really give a shit on any of those issues. Hillary is a friggin Republican in all but name, as was her husband. We attacked Iraq one month after Saddam stopped taking dollars for his oil. And to suggest that Iran cower and stop acting like a soveriegn nation is just sooo American. The new Iranian Bourse, that accepts currencies other than our multi trillion counterfeiting 'petro dollar' scam is what is really behind this. We've been essentially writing checks we know will never get cashed for all these years now and the world has decided they are tired of it. Iraq and Iran both are really proxy wars against Europe and the Euro. And it's a war where the U.S. is unarmed. I have lived in Costa Rica for 15 years and for the very first time the local currency is gaining value against the dollar. I can't overstate the signifigance of that. The same is happening in Nicaragua, Honduras and elsewhere down here. The Canadian dollar is getting more in exchange here than the U.S. dollar! The shit is really about to hit the fan and so few in the U.S. even seem aware of it. Your press is really not a news source nor are most of the liberal blogs. North Americans are in for a hell of a shock.
So Gary Hart is using the Gulf Of Tonkin incident of 1964 as an example of how the U.S. is "reluctant" to go to war? Many high-profile U S government officials from that era now admit that the Gulf Of Tonkin incident was completely bogus. The photos that were published were literally made in a darkroom which is about as sophisticated as our government could get in 1964 (with no PhotoShop). So the reasons for our entry into the Vietnam war were bogus and our reasons for invading Iraq were bogus. Let's see......I see pattern developing here.
Thank you, Mr. Hart. Such is our desperation that it has come to this: blogger diplomacy.
I would like to add this note to the President of Iran:
I heard what you said over and over again at Columbia about the 60 years of Palestinian suffering.
About the undeniable Holocaust, I heard you say that it was an act of Europe, a European event with causes rooted in European (Western) culture and had nothing to do with the Palestinians whom the Europeans chose to be the scapegoat, the bearers of punishment, for its own shame, its own centuries old guilt.
A prophet has said, "All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." I believe the same is true about cultures and nations, yours and mine and all others.
You say that you love God and all people. I hope that is true and that you follow the path of love. Because hatred and fear will destroy all people.
I hope also that you will walk in wisdom as Gary Hart has advised. I am remembering...
Gary Hart seems to be working for the VeryBigCorporationOfAmerica, inc. Democrats owe their fealty to the Corporate gestalt, too.
The primary objective for threatening Iran (and possibly bombing and/or invading) is oil---it's always been oil. It was oil in Tampico in 1916. It's oil in Venezuela. It's oil in Iraq. Iran has the third largest reserves, after Iraq. Excuse me, 4th largest...Russia now is now the swing producer of the world, ahead of Saudi Arabia, whose giant Ghawar field is in decline now. If Iran and Iraq had the market cornered on Peppercorns, the Cheney Corporatist Mafia wouldn't give a second thought about them. But we are witnessing the beginning of the "end times" for the Capitalist system, which needs oil for energy for its constant state of expansion on this finite earth. But now geography will determine who gets oil and who doesn't. The U.S. oil industry thought they had plenty of lead time when we invaded Iraq, but that is evaporating in the face of opposition.
The government of Iran, despite its rather inflammatory rhetoric, knows that world oil production is peaking (their production actually peaked in 1979), and the U.S. government has known about it for years---there is a declassified CIA document on the Russian oil supply peaking from the 70's. Iran wants nuclear power for JUST THAT---POWER GENERATION. They are trying to think ahead...but Wall Street and the globalists have other plans, and have since the end of WW2, hence the fog of war.
The damn thing is...it would just be cheaper to MAKE A DEAL and BUY THE OIL, but our last remaining domestic industry that isn't outsourced yet, the Military/Industrial Complex, needs to be fed! Like the old commercial---"Always feed your wolf plenty of meatballs. Never run out of meatballs."
Disaster Capitalism (as witnessed in Iraq and elsewhere) is a hungry wolf.
Thank goodness I live in Oregon, which doesn't have any oil. Otherwise, it might look like Texas...or New Orleans.
"But even in this instance, we were led to believe that the mass murderer of American civilians, Osama bin Laden, was lurking, literally or figuratively, in the vicinity of Baghdad."
Led to believe by whom? Not even the most ardent supporter of wars argued or believed that Osama Bin Laden was lurking in the vicinity of Baghdad or Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. The false connection between 9/11 and Iraq was made not as an expression of belief or information but only to sell the war.
I am usually an admirer of Mr. Hart, but in this instance I don't know what you are talking about.
Knowing and respecting Gary Hart as I do, I understand his message and the advise given to the Iranians,just look what happen to Iraq, Bush started to threaten Saddam because alledgely he ignored the UN sanctions; never mind, he could not care less for international laws and treaties and never mind we and the British controled every move he made and bombed the hell out whenever we said he violated the no fly zone but then he had the temerity to practically dare Bush and the rest is history, so why not be a good neighboor and suggest to the Iranians to stay low for another 16 months?
Hey bluesky49876, do you know what figuratively means?
"Having done so, you will surely recognize that Americans
are reluctant to go to war unless attacked. Until Pearl
Harbor, we were even reluctant to get involved in World
War II. For historians of American wars the question
is whether we provoke provocations."
To continue with such a policy in the light of the new war technologies, such as nuclear tipped guided missles, would be disasterous....times have changed, and isolationist policies of the past are no longer a valid way to defend oneself against foreign invaders.
You just have to update your thinking. Perhaps the Iraqi war was a mistake, but it wasn't a mistakd because they didn't actually attack us, or land on our shores. The reasons, (if they exist) are much more complex than that. And it could be that keeping troops there, even at a cost of 100 Billion dollars and 1000 lives a year, might be a good policy in the long run. The real danger in making decisions about the Middle East, is simplistic thinking.
William E. Graham, Salem, Oregon.
The Iraq War was a mistake because we were attacked by someone else, that threat is still out there and the Iraq debacle has done nothing but help Al Qaeda's Cause.
To call the lives of thousands of my friends a worth while cost (a seemingly insignificant one to you) is positively disgusting.
The only thing left for us to do in Iraq is apologize for the debacle and leave.
Regards,
Charles E. Anderson
HM2(FMF/SW) Ret.
Operation Iraqi "Freedom" Veteran
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