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Geoffrey R. Stone

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The Framers' Constitution

Posted: 09/12/11 08:42 PM ET

I co-authored this piece with Professor William Marshall of the North Carolina School of Law. It was also published online today by the American Constitution Society.

For the past 40 years, political conservatives have effectively framed the national debate over constitutional interpretation. According to the conservatives' narrative, their approach to constitutional interpretation adheres to the true meaning of the Constitution and to the Rule of Law, whereas "liberal" jurisprudence is concerned only with achieving specific desired outcomes, without regard to the text, history or meaning of the Constitution.

The gains that conservatives have achieved by characterizing the debate in this manner cannot be overstated. Because the public has generally accepted the conservative account, Republican presidents have been much more aggressive than their Democratic counterparts in appointing judges with strongly ideological inclinations, and constitutional doctrine has veered sharply to the right as conservative jurists have become ever bolder in their pursuit of politically conservative results. Meanwhile, at the grassroots level, a new strain of conservative constitutionalism has recently emerged that insists that even such traditional legislative measures as civil rights laws and social welfare programs are unconstitutional, reflecting an even more aggressive conception of conservative judicial ideology.

The conservative constitutional narrative is deeply unprincipled and patently wrong, both in its defense of conservative judicial ideology and in its attack on what conservatives deride as a result-oriented "liberal" jurisprudence. In fact, most of the decisions the conservatives deride are premised on sound principles of constitutional interpretation and on the Framers' own understanding of our Constitution and of the essential role of courts in our constitutional system. But although progressives actually hold the high ground in this debate, we have generally failed in public discourse either to unmask the realities of conservative judicial methodology or to explain the logic, legitimacy and coherence of our understanding of constitutional interpretation. Unless we take up this challenge, we will continue to lose in the courts, in nomination battles, in the legislatures, and at the polls. It is time for ACS and its members to take up this challenge.

In this essay, we set the record straight about conservative constitutional jurisprudence and set forth a principled approach to constitutional interpretation that reflects the fundamental values and aspirations of those who framed the American Constitution over the course of more than two centuries and strikes the proper balance between judicial restraint and judicial activism by focusing on the circumstances in which judicial review is necessary to preserve our constitutional liberties and limitations.

The Framers of the American Constitution were visionaries. They designed our Constitution to endure. They sought not only to address the specific challenges facing the nation during their lifetimes, but to establish the foundational principles that would sustain and guide the nation into an always uncertain future.

The text of the Constitution reflects this vision. It defines our most fundamental freedoms in general terms: "freedom of speech," "due process of law," "free exercise of religion," "equal protection of the laws," "privileges and immunities of citizenship," "cruel and unusual punishment." The Constitution sets forth governmental powers in similarly general terms: Congress may regulate "commerce among the several states" and may enforce the Fourteenth Amendment "by appropriate legislation," the president will "take care that the laws be faithfully executed," the courts are authorized to decide "cases" and "controversies."

These phrases are not self-defining. The Framers understood that they were entrusting to future generations the responsibility to draw upon their intelligence, judgment, and experience to give concrete meaning to these broad principles over time. As Chief Justice John Marshall observed almost two centuries ago, "we must never forget it is a Constitution we are expounding...intended to endure for ages to come, and consequently to be adapted to the various crises of human affairs."

This understanding reflects an approach that is true to what we might call "The Framers' Constitution." It recognizes that the Constitution sets forth broad principles and that a central challenge of constitutional interpretation is to define and then give life and substance to those principles in an ever-changing society. The principles enshrined in the Constitution do not change over time. But the application of those principles must evolve as society changes and as experience informs our understanding.

American constitutional law has long followed the path set by Chief Justice Marshall. As technological means of surveillance became more sophisticated, for example, the meaning of "search" in the Fourth Amendment came to include invasions of privacy that do not involve a physical trespass. The provision granting Congress the power to maintain the nation's "land and naval Forces" was eventually seen as authorizing an air force. The guarantee of "equal protection of the laws" in the Fourteenth Amendment was understood in later decades as prohibiting discrimination not only against African-Americans but against women and gays and lesbians as well. "Commerce among the several states" came to be seen differently as the nation's economy became more complex and integrated across state lines, and the concept of "liberty" came to encompass not only freedom from physical restraint, but also freedom from undue government intrusion into such fundamental personal decisions as whether to bear or beget a child or how to raise and educate one's children.

But how should we give concrete meaning to the open-textured provisions of the Constitution? On the one hand, judges must have sufficient interpretative authority to ensure that constitutional rights and limitation endure over time. On the other hand, judges must not have such broad interpretative discretion that they can freely substitute their own personal, political, religious, social, and economics values for those of the People. The best solution, which is grounded in the vision of the Framers across the centuries, has a long and honorable tradition in American constitutional law. It has two essential elements. First, at the very core of The Framers' Constitution is the recognition that, in a self-governing society, courts must generally defer to the preferences of the majority. Although courts may always review governmental action to guard against arbitrariness or unreasonableness, the starting point must be a presumption of judicial restraint.

This is an essential tenet of any theory of principled constitutionalism.

Second, respect for The Framers' Constitution requires us to recognize that although the Framers thought majority rule to be the best system of government, they knew it to be imperfect. They understood that political majorities may be tempted to enact laws that entrench their own authority; that driven by fear, self-interest or short-sightedness, majorities may sometimes too quickly cast aside fundamental freedoms and critical structural limitations; and that prejudice, hostility, and intolerance may at times lead governing majorities to give short shrift to the legitimate needs and interests of political, religious, racial, and other minorities.

The Framers intended courts to play a central role in addressing these concerns. When proponents of the original Constitution argued in 1790 that a bill of rights would be pointless because political majorities would run roughshod over its guarantees, Thomas Jefferson responded that this argument ignored "the legal check" that could be exercised by the judiciary. When James Madison faced similar concerns when he introduced the Bill of Rights in the first Congress, he maintained that "independent tribunals of justice will consider themselves . . . the guardians of those rights [and] will be naturally led to resist every encroachment" upon them. And in Federalist 78, Alexander Hamilton stated that constitutional protections and limitations could "be preserved in practice no other way than through the medium of courts of justice," which must "guard the constitution and the rights of individuals from the effects of those ill humours which...sometimes disseminate among the people."

This understanding of The Framers' Constitution found expression in the modern era in a series of Supreme Court opinions in the 1930s and 1940s. For example, in the Court's famous footnote 4 in Carolene Products, decided more than seventy years ago, the Court suggested that there are some circumstances in which there may be "narrower scope" for the usual "presumption of constitutionality." Specifically, the Court noted that "more exacting judicial scrutiny" may be appropriate when legislation "restricts those political processes which can ordinarily be expected to bring about repeal of undesirable legislation" and when laws disadvantage groups like "religious or racial minorities," because "prejudice" against such groups "tends seriously to curtail the operation of those political processes ordinarily to be relied upon to protect" us against injustice. Put simply, the Court recognized in Carolene Products that courts should not be so quick to defer to the outcomes of the political process when there is good reason to believe that that process itself may have been tainted.

Following this approach, the Supreme Court has properly departed from the presumption of judicial restraint when governing majorities disadvantage historically vulnerable groups (such as African-Americans, ethnic minorities, political dissidents, religious dissenters, women, and persons accused of crime); when they use their authority to stifle critics, entrench their own political power, or undermine the constitutional structure of checks and balances; and when majorities act in moments of high crisis. In such circumstances, it is necessary and proper for courts -- Madison's "independent tribunals of justice" -- to exercise a "more exacting judicial scrutiny" in order to protect our most fundamental freedoms and guard against those malfunctions of majority governance that most concerned the Framers. This, too, is an essential tenet of principled constitutionalism.

Invoking this understanding of judicial responsibility, the Supreme Court has issued a series of landmark decisions that faithfully interpret and apply The Framers' Constitution. These decisions ended de jure racial segregation, recognized the principle of "one person, one vote," forbade government suppression of political dissenters, established an effective right to counsel for persons accused of crime, struck down government discrimination against women, limited the authority of government to interfere with women's reproductive choices, and upheld the right of "enemy combatants" to due process of law, to cite just a very few examples. These decisions animate the most fundamental aspirations of our Constitution in circumstances in which judicial intervention is both proper and necessary.

For the past half-century, however, conservatives have argued that the Supreme Court went too far in the 1950s and '60s in its efforts to preserve the vitality of self-governance and protect the rights of those most in need of judicial attention. In the late 1960s, for example, conservatives like Richard Nixon and Strom Thurmond condemned what they derided as "judicial activism" and demanded the appointment of judges and justices committed to judicial restraint. But although judicial restraint in appropriate circumstances is essential to principled constitutionalism, its sweeping, reflexive invocation would abdicate a fundamental responsibility that the Framers themselves entrusted to the judiciary and would therefore undermine a critical element of the American constitutional system. It is no more appropriate for judges to refuse to enforce the Constitution against intolerant or overreaching majorities than it is for the president to refuse to defend the nation against enemy invasion.

Perhaps recognizing that a theory of unbounded judicial restraint is constitutionally irresponsible, political conservatives next came up with the modern theory of "originalism." First popularized by Robert Bork, Edwin Meese, and Antonin Scalia in the 1980s, their version of originalism presumes that courts should exercise judicial restraint unless the "original meaning" of the text clearly mandates an activist approach. Under this theory, for example, it is appropriate for courts to invoke the Equal Protection Clause to invalidate laws that deny African-Americans the right to serve on juries, but not to invalidate laws that deny women that same right, because that was not the "original meaning" of the Equal Protection Clause.

Originalism, however, is fundamentally flawed. First, because those who enacted the broad foundational provisions of our Constitution often did not have any precise and agreed-upon understanding of the specific meaning of "freedom of speech" or "due process of law" or "regulate Commerce...among the several States" or "privileges or immunities" or "equal protection of the laws," it is difficult if not impossible to know with any certainty what they did or did not think about concrete constitutional issues. As a consequence, judges purporting to engage in originalist analysis often project onto the Framers their own personal and political preferences. The result is an unprincipled and often patently disingenuous jurisprudence.

There is no evidence, for example, for the claims advanced by originalists that the original meaning of the Equal Protection Clause prohibited affirmative action or that the original meaning of the First Amendment guaranteed corporations a constitutional right to spend unlimited amounts of money to dominate the election of public officials. Both of these claims, however, are central to today's conservative constitutional agenda.

The second problem with originalism is even more disqualifying, for it reveals the theory to be internally incoherent. Originalism asserts that those who crafted and ratified our Constitution intended the meaning and effect of their handiwork to be limited to the specific understandings of their time. But this view erroneously attributes to the Framers a narrow-mindedness and short-sightedness that belies their true spirit. As Justice Louis Brandeis observed more than 80 years ago, the Framers believed "courage to be the secret of liberty." They were not timid men. Moreover, originalism ignores that those who framed our Constitution were steeped in a common-law tradition that presumed that just as reason, observation, and experience permit us to gain greater insight over time into questions of biology, physics, economics, and human nature, so too would they enable us to learn more over time about the content and meaning of the principles they enshrined in our Constitution. Indeed, the notion that any particular moment's understanding of the meaning of the Constitution's provisions should be locked into place and taken as constitutionally definitive would have seemed completely wrong-headed to the Framers, who held a much bolder and more confident understanding of their own achievements and aspirations.

For these reasons, the conservative doctrine of "originalism" has been largely discredited as a serious method of constitutional interpretation. This is not to say, however, that the views of the Framers are irrelevant. To the contrary, their values, concerns and purposes, as reflected in the text of the Constitution, must inform and guide the process of constitutional interpretation, but in a principled and realistic manner. They must be considered as the Framers themselves understood them -- as a set of general principles and aspirations, rather than as a collection of specific and short-sighted "rules." To be true to The Framers' Constitution, we must strive faithfully to implement the Framers' often far-sighted goals in an ever-changing society. That is central to any theory of principled constitutionalism.

Moreover, the values, concerns and purposes of the Framers must be understood in light of the inescapable reality that the American people have repeatedly amended the Constitution over the past two centuries to make it more inclusive and more progressive. By outlawing slavery in the 13th Amendment, guaranteeing due process, equality, and privileges and immunities in the 14th Amendment, and consistently expanding the franchise in the 15th, 19th, 24th, and 26th Amendments, the people of the United States have themselves made clear time and again that our Constitution is a fundamentally progressive document. This history must guide judges and justices in their interpretation and implementation of the Constitution.

Instead, we have now entered a new and even more troubling phase of conservative constitutional jurisprudence. It is best characterized as "conservative activism." Justices who readily dismiss constitutional claims by women, political dissenters, and racial, ethnic, and religious minorities, but at the same time aggressively strike down affirmative action programs, restrictions on corporate political expenditures, gun control laws, regulations of commercial advertising, federal civil rights laws prohibiting age discrimination and domestic violence, and the laws of the state of Florida in the 2000 presidential election, have hijacked the power of judicial review. Conservative justices today exercise that authority in a highly selective and politicized manner that cannot credibly be explained or justified by any principled theory of constitutional interpretation. Indeed, despite all of the conservative rhetoric about originalism, "strict construction," "judicial restraint," "applying rather than making the law," and "calling balls and strikes," this pattern of decisions raises grave questions about the considerations that actually drive the jurisprudence of our conservative justices.

In the end, of course, constitutional interpretation is not a mechanical enterprise. It requires judges to exercise judgment. It calls upon them to consider text; history; precedent; values; changing social, economic, technological, and cultural conditions; and the practical realities of the times. Above all, it must be grounded in an understanding of the judiciary's unique strengths and weaknesses and in a proper appreciation of the most fundamental reasons for judicial review. Courts must have the authority to invalidate acts of the elected branches of government, not so they can pursue conservative or liberal agendas, but so they can serve as an essential check on the dangers of majoritarian dysfunction. This understanding of constitutional was central to much of the work of the Warren Court and it has long been central to the progressive understanding of constitutional law.

It is time now for a new era of principled constitutionalism. It is time to return to The Framers' Constitution.

 
 
 
I co-authored this piece with Professor William Marshall of the North Carolina School of Law. It was also published online today by the American Constitution Society. For the past 40 years, political...
I co-authored this piece with Professor William Marshall of the North Carolina School of Law. It was also published online today by the American Constitution Society. For the past 40 years, political...
 
 
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02:23 PM on 09/13/2011
See related link:
http://www.change.org/petitions/free-citizens-from-spying
12:15 PM on 09/13/2011
Reading this you begin to question whether Geoffrey has ever actually read the Constitution, but he has probably read it. The problem is that he begins with his vision of how government should work and then attempts to fit the words of the Constitution into to that vision. If Geoffrey wants to understand the Constitution and the form of government it created he should set aside his personal prejudices and read it starting with the Constitution itself instead of beging with the Amendments.

The Constitution did not create a government of essentially unlimited power and then with the addition of the Bill of Rights place a handful of restriction on that unlimited power. No the Constitution lays out a a very limited federal government of only a few enumerated powers. Both the States and the participants at the Constitutional Convention feared an all powerful central government. The hoped for solution to prevent overreach was to both clearly define the limited role of the federal government and each branch but to then add even more explicit guarantees by adopting the Bill of Rights.
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QuarkGluonSoup
12:35 PM on 09/13/2011
He interposes his view of the constitution and sees this as what "The Framers" intended. This article is bad history.

"The Framers" weren't intending to create a strong or weak government, nor one with broad nor limited powers. They simply wanted a government that would be stable, and avoid a sequel to the events that haunted them all: Shay's rebellion. It was the result of many compromises, and not a purposeful design.

Few (other than some fringe anti-federalists like Patrick Henry) feared a "powerful central government". They feared another shay's rebellion, or any other system that would prove unworkable again and collapse in on itself. There were simply too many people involved, with too many changing views, to asribe an overarching goal beyond this. They also had no conception (certainly not like we do) of a "seperation of powers" beyond the traditional English conception of government as having two main departments: law making (congress) and law executing (executive/judiciary).
05:11 AM on 10/16/2011
In The Spirit of the Laws (1748) Montesquieu urged separation of powers – the division of authority among different branches of government. One branch, the legislative, would make laws. A second branch, the executive, would see that the laws were carried out. The third branch, the judicial, would interpret the laws. Separation of powers, Montesquieu believed, would keep any individual or group from gaining total control of the government. This would, he said, safeguard the liberty of people against corrupt leaders.

Montesquieu's writings were quite well studied by, and influential upon the framers. For the judicial branch to countermand the actions of both the executive and legislative branches is inherent.

Scalia is not a smart man, merely a clever one, twisting pretzel logic. His specious, self-serving sophistry has been a black mark on the Court for far too long.
BrighterStar
Let Freedom Ring
11:11 AM on 09/13/2011
So basically your point is that the framers wanted the constitution to be what ever 5 people in robes say it means? That is logically and historically wrong. The reason that liberals have been losing this debate is that their position is so ridiculously wrong that it cannot pass the laugh test. If you want to be taken seriously stop trying to find constitutional justification for liberal jurisprudence that flies in the face of the constitution.
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rtgmath
There has got to be a better way!
10:37 AM on 09/13/2011
In writing the Constitution, the Framers did a remarkable thing. They established a government upon an entirely new type of authority. The Framers rejected the basis of the State from the positions of the Divine Right of Kings and the Authority of the Church. Instead, they based the authority of the State on the People itself.

But they also had recent history to work with. The Constitution was not the first government of the United States of America (a fact omitted by most conservative authors). The Articles of Confederation had created a weak alliance of Sovereign States. The States could -- and did -- defy the central government. The rights of the people were not enumerated. The States had their shape and authority, not from the people, but from their founding charters -- based again on the Divine Right of Kings.

This weak government -- the ultimate "States Rights" argument the TeaPots are pushing today -- did not work and the Framers knew it from experience. So they created a stronger government, based on the rights of the people, creating a framework that would ultimately ensure a people with equal rights in every state.

The Framers built for the future. Their creation was not perfect, but it was meant to be adaptable and to pursue the vision of the rights of the people protected under a single country, the United States of America.
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QuarkGluonSoup
11:06 AM on 09/13/2011
Little of what you said is true. Mostly it is an interposition of your own views onto the 18th century leaders.

They didn't establish "a government upon an entirely new type of authority". There could be no "divine right of kings" in America because there was no heriditary line of kings. They copied the British system, which Hamilton called "the best in the world" but tweaked it for the differences in America (no herditary kingship or norbility mainly). They deserve credit for doing a good job building a system, but building a system without a "divine right of kings" was something they had no choice on.

The articles of confederation was not weak because the states defied the government. It was weak because the government require unamomous support to do anything, and this rarely ever wa given. The government itself was paralyzed, not defied by the states. You point here on the divine right of kings is baseless. The state governments were never built on that premise, and in any case they all broke away and reorganized themselves during the revolution.
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rtgmath
There has got to be a better way!
11:58 AM on 09/13/2011
Wrong. As colonies, they were subjects of the British empire, and the Crown attributed its right not to the contracts or the Magna Carta (which limited it), but to the Divine Right of Kings.

And even though the colonies reorganized much of their structure as they became states, nothing radical changed at first. Yes, they had the rights guaranteed to them as Englishmen, but still the States did not see the people as their center of authority.

It took time for our modern viewpoints of liberty to develop. And when we contrast what the Framers saw in the rest of the world, we understand better how radical, how liberal their notions were.
09:52 AM on 09/13/2011
In one breath you say, "judges can interpret the Constitution however they see fit as principles change." In the next you say, "here are a list of 'wrong' decisions by recent courts." You can't have it both ways.
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QuarkGluonSoup
10:26 AM on 09/13/2011
why not?
03:23 PM on 09/13/2011
I was calling to mind the internal contradiction. On one hand the author is advocating that judgment shall be within the subjective autonomy of judges and that it the "greatnesss" of the Consititution. On the other hand the author criticizes their decisions for not accidentally confirming his subjective interpretation, but he does so in a way that makes implies his interpretation are the objective. Hence they are "wrong" or "right".
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bolduc999
only a fool confuses kindness with weakness
05:43 AM on 09/13/2011
What an excellent article!
04:33 AM on 09/13/2011
The professor was obviously running up is billing hours for this essay. Don't say in 1,000 words what you can take 30,000 words to say.

We have judges because two people can look at the same facts and draw different conclusions. This guy disagrees with Scalia, et al. Fair enough, then just disagree!
rixter1965
I'll respect your beliefs, but at least be consist
09:45 AM on 09/13/2011
Yeah! If it doesn't fit on a bumper sticker it's too wordy!
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rtgmath
There has got to be a better way!
11:52 AM on 09/13/2011
Scholarship takes time, and it often takes words. The idea that everything can be brief and self-evident is untrue.

If one disagrees with Scalia, one needs to lay out sufficient reasons why. Scalia would claim that his interpretation is just as good as Mr. Stone's -- better because Scalia is a Supreme Court Justice. Mr. Stone, in disagreeing with Scalia's position, lays out his historical and legal analysis.

Under the "briefer is better" doctrine, try taking your car to a mechanic without the extensive books on how to repair particular vehicles. Please don't be upset if it doesn't run when the mechanic is done "fixing" it.
03:18 AM on 09/13/2011
I was hoping you'd address 'Johnson v. M’Intosh' from 1823. Otherwise known as the "Doctrine Of Christian Discovery." Which eventually justified the Jacksonian "Doctrine Of Manifest Destiny."

The Supreme Court has never been free of political or personal persuasions.

A disasterous ruling that still pervades decisions against Native Americans to this day.
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QuarkGluonSoup
10:25 AM on 09/13/2011
manifest destiny was Jackson's work? you sure?

I love how people today can enjoy the fruits of difficult decisions made by people in the past, and criticize them for those decisions.

in any case, the trail of tears happened under Van Buren.
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Joshua Sager
Progressive and Abrasive
10:44 PM on 09/12/2011
I would argue that originalism is best represented by the living constitution's proponents because as pointed out above, the founders original intent was that the constitution could evolve. The founders clearly didn't assume the constitution to remain static over the centuries because they wrote into it a method of amending it. The legal argument for this would be that the constitution cannot be used to justify forbidding something that it expressly addresses regulations for in its body.

As history has shown us, conservatives don't truly care about the constitution, they only wave it to justify their initiatives while ignoring it when it isn't convenient. I would point to the violations of the first and fourth amendments by the Bush administration as a glaring example of the conservative disdain for the constitution as a whole.

SarcasticLiberal.blogspot.com
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QuarkGluonSoup
10:52 PM on 09/12/2011
There is little indiciation from any of 18th century documents that they considered "evolution" of the constitution in any way similar to the way people today think of it. They clearly didn't want it to change much at all, and they made certain it wouldn't by adding such a high threshold to pass amendments. But they had no problem seeing things differently as their own temperment changed. Madison had an extremely expansionist view at the start of the convention, a little less so at the end, by 1798 was advocating nullification and by his presidency was extremely narrow in his interpretation of it. This is odd by what we think the right standards are, since no one knew better the "intent of the framers" (though no such thing existed) than the constitution's own father.

The simple fact here is that it certainly changes, and it is a fiction to assume it doesn't. Both conservatives and liberals change it. Conservatives think they are sticking to the "intent of the framers" and liberals think conservatives are too. Both are wrong.
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biggerjake
Religion poisons everything...
05:25 AM on 09/13/2011
According to the book Plain, Honest Men by Richard Beeman, many of the framers were indeed interested in making sure that the new Constitution included a workable method for amendment. They were particularly motivated by the fatal weakness of the Articles of Confederation’s lack of such a workable method. Madison’s original proposal gave equal power to the state legislatures and Congress in proposing amendments.

They did not however want subsequent conventions to undo all of the work that they were doing in Philadelphia. As a result they made the bar to amend the constitution adequately high that it has only been done “when a decisive percentage of the populace has agreed to that an amendment was of sufficient importance to justify changing the language of the Constitution.â€

This has resulted in the US constitution being a “model of concisionâ€. The original document is only four handwritten pages, and even with the amendments it would only be seven pages. Compare that to the state Constitution of California (350 pages) and the European Union Constitution (855 pages).
10:40 PM on 09/12/2011
Here is the core problem with your philosophy professor. While eloquently set forth, and undoubtedly what you believe in good faith to be both correct and in the best interest of the people, it is intensely undemocratic. It puts at the center of the progressive left a core charge that has been leveled at it by the populist elements of the right (the right and left both have populist wings, though the left seems to beleive only it is entitled to one). Simply put, your philosophy is that the country needs a safety valve so that smart people can overrule the unwise judgments of unruly majorities. Respectfully, there is a certain conceit about your position. Nine wise persons will decide whether the majorities ideas are worthy. If they find them lacking, they will strike them down. The mess that is abortion policy in this country is a legacy of this flawed philosophy. Left to democratic means, abortion would be in about the same place it is today, but without a bitterly entrenched and disenfranchised minority resisting the clearly modern trend. We could have made the same mistake with gay marriage, but the restraint of the courts is allowing the political process to deal with that issue so far. The result in 30 years will be that few people will blink at gay marriage, but that aborotion will continue to bitterly divide the country. Please keep your autocratic body of wise people protecting us from ourselves out of my country's government.
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QuarkGluonSoup
10:55 PM on 09/12/2011
One problem in your philosophy: "democracy" is a good thing.

We do have a "safety valve" against stupid majorities, at least in the short term. This isn't just a desire of the professor, it is a simple fact. Worshiping the deity of the voter is a recent development. They are usually wrong, and at least we have short term protection against their stupidity.
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QuarkGluonSoup
10:21 PM on 09/12/2011
Your understanding of constitutional history seems to be pretty shallow. Odd that you accuse conservatives of knowing what the framers meant, and then you do the same. You are just as guilty as they are. You claim that Madison viewed the courts as the way to ensure liberty is a good example of this. Madison made clear (in particular with the KY and VA resolutions) that he saw the states, not the courts, as the way to guarantee liberty. Why even quote Jefferson as though he was a founder when he wasn't? He went even further than Madison, thinking secession was the ultimate guarantee of liberty.

"The framers" is a nearly nonsensical term. Who exactly does this include? You could expand it to include thousands of people. Their own views changed drastically even within short periods of time, and much of what is in the constitution was either not seriously debated arrived at through a compromise that no one initially wanted.

Oh and they didn't fear tyrannical majorities like you claim, nor did they favor "majority rule". Their idea of "republic" was vague and included little more than the absence of a hereditary nobility and some sort of democratic component somewhere in the process. A fear of reckless majorities doesn't seem to have been a major consideration, other than a worry about short term bad decision, for which their remedy was the senate.
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OneManRoaring
Tech specialist, former educator & active citizen!
09:23 PM on 09/12/2011
Well, the obvious is stated and made clear, but the obvious needs no elucidation. The article states: "Unless we take up this challenge, we will continue to lose in the courts, in nomination battles, in the legislatures, and at the polls. It is time for ACS and its members to take up this challenge."

How do "we the people" or "we" anyone else (including the ACS) take up this challenge? What can the populace do to change this trajectory? The people select those who play on the teams (politicians), but the teams make up the rules and appoint the officials (judges).

It seems to me that the entire process has become corrupt. One of the most damaging rulings ever was equating corporate entities with personage. People don't, by their nature, have an organization. People, by and large, don't have revenue streams that can be diverted to invest in political objectives and people don't have legal teams devoted to protecting their rights.

Faced with what is currently going on with SCOTUS and the conservative, activist judges, how can the path be altered? That's the article I would REALLY like to read!

Support Fairness and the Common Good in Government­. Follow One Man Roaring on Twitter: http://twitter.com/omroaring
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Joshua Sager
Progressive and Abrasive
10:55 PM on 09/12/2011
I agree with you that once there is corruption in the judiciary it is very difficult to get back to a responsible judiciary, but there is always a leveling effect in place. Think of the situation as a pendulum, and the judges (particularly the supreme court) are swinging towards the corrupt right wing side of the spectrum. Eventually their views and actions will become so outside the norm and unacceptable that there will be a massive backlash. Politics often will re-right themselves to a more normal path through mass revolt once the parties get too extreme. Look at the early 1900s for many examples of seemingly impossible situations resolving themselves through reactions to extremism.

Things will get much worse and more corrupt in the coming years, until they become unbearable and there is a potential for a mass purge of the corrupt judiciary through political action. Those seen as extreme or corrupt will feel the full force of the built up dissatisfaction of the people who oppose their views. The legislative parallel to this would be the 2008 election of Democrats post-Bush, or arguably the tea party wave of 2010 (that wasn't due to extremism but rather mass mobilization by the right and dissatisfaction on the left, but the result is the same).

SarcasticLiberal.blogspot.com
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QuarkGluonSoup
11:26 PM on 09/12/2011
Things change. What will drive change in the courts is not claimed "corruption" or bad decisions by the courts, but revulsion at whoever is in power when voters collectively vomit.
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OneManRoaring
Tech specialist, former educator & active citizen!
11:40 PM on 09/12/2011
I would agree with you if the political system was as open as it should be, but those in power are trying to close the pathways of change and are becoming more entrenched. I think you are over estimating the "power of the people."

I don't think what you outline above is impossible just that it will become more difficult than in the past.