Hamas Signals Compromise, But No One's Watching

Last week Khaled Meshaal, the Damascus-based head of Hamas's Political Bureau, gave an interview to the Palestinian newspaper Al-Ayyam. The choice of venue is significant, since Al-Ayyam is a pro-Fatah paper, linked to the Palestinian Authority government in Ramallah, and Meshaal is the presumed leader of Hamas, whose breakaway government rules Gaza since last June.

The interview should therefore be read as an act of public diplomacy. In the West, though, it has hardly been read at all. The Israeli daily Ha'aretz ran a short item, which was translated into English, and the Italian news agency AKI published a version of the interview.

Ignoring Meshaal is a mistake, especially given developments I'll describe in a moment. So I asked a Palestinian journalist to translate some key excerpts of the Al-Ayyam interview. They appear here. Pay particular attention to the last paragraph. First, though a bit of context. (For more background, see my new American Prospect column.)

In the interview, Meshaal reiterates his commitment to the Palestinian unity agreements of 2006, which were the basis for the short-lived unity Hamas-Fatah unity government last year. On the face of it, he's suggesting willingness to return to a unity framework. Under the 2006 agreements, Hamas agreed to let Palestinian President Mahmud Abbas negotiate with Israel on a final-status agreement based on the June 4, 1967 lines, Palestinian sovereignty in East Jerusalem, and the right of return. Meshaal is saying he still stands by that, though he's not willing to recognize Israel formally. In the final paragraph of the excerpt below, the interviewer is essentially asking Meshaal if he isn't still committed to the Hamas Charter of 1988, which leaves no room for Israel. Meshaal's answer is: In my heart, of course I believe all of Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. But practically speaking, our political position is a de facto two-state solution.

Let me be clear: Meshaal is still stating a considerably more hardline position than that of Fatah. This isn't an offer on which any Israeli leader could just sign. Meshaal's stated conditions for two states falls far short of the Clinton parameters or the Geneva accord. On the other hand, pay attention: The leader of Hamas is saying that the Charter has no practical relevance. He really wishes Israel would vanish, but that's not his political program. He'd rather take a couple pills against nausea, and accept reality.

I also stress that I'm not ignoring Hamas's long record of terror. My mental map of Jerusalem is marked with the places where Hamas blew people up, including the places where I've heard the blast and the screaming and seen the blood. These are nasty people.

Yet given the current stalemate, the question is whether it is in American, Israel, and moderate Palestinian interests to continue with the policy of isolating Hamas, or to prefer a Palestinian unity government in which Hamas would have a stake in compromises.

In answering that question, take into account:

• The Bush administration's refusal to deal with Hamas is based in part on regarding the group as part of global jihad, a partner of al-Qaeda. But Reuven Paz, head of the Project for the Research of Islamist Movements (PRISM) in Israel, says that al-Qaeda harbors "the deepest hatred" for Hamas, which it sees as representing "nationalist jihad" instead of "Islamic jihad." Yet for Bush, as Paz says, Islamic groups are "all the same thing, the axis of evil." That's a misreading of Middle East dynamics - much like John McCain''s persistent confusion of Al-Qaeda and Shi'ite extremists.
• A recent Vanity Fair investigation fills out an earlier International Institute for Strategic Studies study on the Bush administration's bid to overturn the 2006 Palestinian elections by force - a plan that backfired and led to the Hamas takeover of Gaza. The administration's attempts to push Hamas off the stage have had precisely the opposite effect.


Continued at South Jerusalem

Comments

[RumiSouth]

Yet for Bush, as Paz says, Islamic groups are "all the same thing, the axis of evil."

Whatever happened to "divide and conquer?" Why does the Bush and company talent for dividing people end at the water's edge? Why do they force all our enemies together and make them so much harder to defeat?

[nyboomer]

Bush claims to be a uniter not a divider. Are you calling him a liar? In any event GW Bush is not relevant to mid east peace. I firmly accept that he is aware he has no proclivity for diplomacy or nuanced thinking. He is marking time till he is repalced and hopes that the USA does not pack him off to the Hague to stand trial.

[bethinCary]

No..Pres Carter has noticed and wants to speak with Hamas...

GW trying to deter.....

after all if there's peace in the region--the US won't be able to keep their chokehold on everyone there.

[NicoleAnonymous]

This is going to seem really crazy but what if we don't have a "Jewish state" anymore. What if we make both Jews and Arabs citizens in a new country that included the West Bank and Gaza so that it's a real democracy. I know some people think the Arabs would just kill all the Jews but what if they decided that there was hope in their life that things would get better and attacking citizens in their own country wouldn't help them? The people in Gaza don't have any hope because they know their life will never improve and when you lose hope, you want to die but if they were all citizens it might be different.

[ProudNeoCon]

" I know some people think the Arabs would just kill all the Jews but what if they decided that there was hope in their life that things would get better and attacking citizens in their own country wouldn't help them?"

And Arab have a lot of history of sych restrain and logical thinking. Lets see:

Lebanon - no they had a pretty nasty civil war there
Iraq - no Sunnies and Shiites have been killing each other there way before we got involved
Jordan - almost except when PLO tried to overthrow the king, so jordanians killed a few thousands
should I go on...


Nicole, you have been preaching the same anti-Israel hate on this board for a while. If you proposal hapens and Arabs kill off Jews you will be busy explaining that world misunderstood and Arabs only wanted to test the guns and they accidently went off...

[NicoleAnonymous]

I don't hate Jews in Israel and I don't think it's fair for you to accuse me of that. I try to see things from the perspective of other people and if I was living in Gaza right now, I would probably take my own life instead of living in misery. A substantial number of children living there have PSD because of the trauma of growing up in such a horrible place. I'm only pointing out that people without hope don't have a motivation to live and that might change if they were all citizens in the same country.

And you want to make this into a fight between good and evil and I refuse to look at it that way. I will always be grateful that Israel exists because during the Holocaust nobody in the world was willing to help so Jews had to find a place to go and I support that decision. Many Jews fought for the right to have a country where they wouldn't be persecuted but I also think the tragedy of the Holocaust does not give Jews a right to victimize other people and not feel empathy for them.

Also I don't agree with those examples you gave because none of those Arab countries are democracies - of course they kill each other. I'm suggesting that if Arabs lived in a real democracy they would value life as much as we do but you seem to belive they're inherently bloodthirsty killers who will never

[mawrm]

Well, you're missing a key piece of history - try BEFORE the creation of the state of Israel. Read up on that some time and yes, for a time Palestinian Jews, Christians and Muslims did live together in relative peace. The problems arose when self-determination and higher recognition was granted to one ethnic group and not another.

[Justtellthetruth]

You so full of it. The settlers and the occupation that protects them are 90% of the problem. If they were doing in America what they are doing in the occupied territories, the US "terrorist" response would make the Palestinians response look like NOTHING.

The settlements are reprehensible, condemned officially by this country and by virtually every other nation on the face of the earth. Even most Israelis find them despiciable.

They are a violently enforced colonial occupation, the ONLY type currently existing on the planet. when they are dealt with properly (total removal) the terror against both Israel and the US will drop off dramatically.

You continue to act and speak as though Israel is doing nothing wrong, and is just being attacked for nothing. They are being attacked for preventing the Palestinians from self determination, as the direct result of the morally bankrupt settler program that most Israelis and Jewish Americans find reprehensible.

[ChiMan1]

Just One more day in the world of meaningless dialogue, we could have had this same conversation 40 years ago and will probably be having the same conversation in 2048. Regards.

[ApolloSpeaks]

Radical Sunnis and Shiites hate each other but are known to work together when it comes to operations against infidels and hypocrits.

[GrainOSand]

God didn’t call America to do what she’s doing in the world now. God didn’t call America to engage in a senseless, unjust war as the war in Vietnam “(Iraq)”. And we are criminals in that war “(Bush, Cheney)”. We’ve committed more war crimes almost than any nation in the world, and I’m going to continue to say it. And we won’t stop it because of our pride and our arrogance as a nation.
But God has a way of even putting nations in their place. The God that I worship has a way of saying, “Don’t play with me.” He has a way of saying, as the God of the Old Testament used to say to the Hebrews, “Don’t play with me, Israel. Don’t play with me, Babylon. Be still and know that I’m God. And if you don’t stop your reckless course, I’ll rise up and break the backbone of your power.” And that can happen to America.
Every now and then I go back and read Gibbons’ Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. And when I come and look at America, I say to myself, the parallels are frightening. And we have perverted the drum major instinct.

But recognize that he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. That’s a new definition of greatness. The thing I like about it is by giving that definition of greatness, it means that everybody can be great, because everybody can serve.
MLK

[GrainOSand]

Just as the chasm between groups will never be resolved here in the U.S. so the conflicts between two proud people in the Middle East (one with a state, one stateless) will never be resolved until the parties are capable of seeing the promised land that MLK referred to. It is love folks and when it is love there is nothing that cannot be resolved. There are no differences that cannot be bridged. There is no unwillingness to accept Israel as a state because it is recognized they are a people now living in that state and they identify their very important lives with that state. If it is love the worthy Palestinian people are regarded as a people deserving of their own historically-bound homeland under decree and flag. If it is love then equity springs forth in negotiation to resolve road bumps of physical boundaries and claims to historical sights.

But if it is hate and ethnic hubris then nothing changes, weapons get stockpiled, and tensions continue to boil until eventually --inevitably, an explosion no one wants happens. This can happen here and this can happen in the Middle East.

Is it love or is it hate? The devil is not in the details but in this basic question. …and it cannot be love of self and hate of another it must be love-to-love or hate-to-hate.

[ProudNeoCon]

My Arabic is not very good, but as I read it he refers to two-state solution as "current political posture" not "political position". To me that means that he once again proposes "hunda", i.e temporary agreement which is permited under Islam if one is too weak to force military victory. However, that agreement is to be broken once military victory is possible. I smy translation wrong?

Also he refers to right of return. I.e. one of the condition of such hunda would be Israel's aceptance of 4mm Palestinians... Does not seems like a big progress from his prior positions..

NB: 2 days ago Palestinins killed 2 Israilis civilian who were working in fuel depot .That depot suplies fuel... to Palestinians in Gaza. Hamas lauded the operation..

Once gain Palestinians killed 2 civilians whose jobs was to help Palestinians...


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/417089E7-6D8F-480F-9B03-16E9B4A057C4.htm

[nk007]

ProudNeoCon:

How many Palestinian civilians have been killed by the Israel military? It seems that as far as you are concerned only the lives of Israelis are worthy, while the lives of Palestinians are not worthy. What interests humane people is how to find a solution to stop the killing on both sides. As long as you continue to promote the "good and saintly Israelis" vs. "the evil Palestinians" and the Palestinians promote the reverse, I just don't see how this conflict can be resolved.

[shady8x]

I think his point is that Hamas screams at how they are being denied basic human needs like fuel and than attacks and kills the civilians which are bringing them the fuel...

Now I am against the Israeli military attacking Gaza and killing civilians, but I have noticed that they never target civilians while Hamas almost always targets civilians.­..(childre­n with molotov cocktails or human shields are not civilians...)

The palestinians teach their children to dream of being jew killers as our society teaches our children to want to be rock or movie stars...

so you have to admit that there is a bit of a difference there...

or am I completely wrong?

[ProudNeoCon]

I am not complaining about Hamas killing civilians. I got used to it. The same as I got used to people treating Palestinian deliberate murder of civilians the same as collateral killing by Israelies. I got used to it.

What amazed me in this case is that those 2 civilians were working to bring fuel to Palestinians. Palestinians have been complaining about shortage of fuel. Then they go and kill civilians who help that fuel to get to Gaza and blow up a crossing via which fuel enters Gaza. Assuming that Palestinians are logical, the only explanation I can come up is that Hamas deliberetly trying to worsen the fuel crisis...

[straightshooter]

An update: Al Jazeera is reporting that President Jimmy Carter will be meeting with Khaled Meshaal shortly in Damascus. It seems that he is aware of the positive signals Hamas has been sending for months, indeed, years, beginning with Hamas founder, Sheikh Yasin, who was assassinated by Israel.
While Hamas is most assuredly guilty of carrying out terrorists attacks against Israel, only a fool or a pro-Israel zealot would deny that Israel is a terrorist state. This is blatantly obvious given its 60 years of military expansionism, illegal and brutal occupations, repeated ethnic cleansings, massive slaughter of Palestinians and Lebanese, the imprisonment of over 10,000 Palestinians (thousands without charge, including hundreds of women and children), illegal collective punishment, blockades, assassinations, embargoes and daily violations of the UN Charter, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the Fourth Geneva Convention (all of which came about in large measure as a result of the Jewish holocaust during WWII). Needless to say, Washington's decades of subservience to the pro-Israel lobby and its financial/military "no strings attached" aid to Israel courtesy of US taxpayers (now over $15 million each and every day) constitute American complicity in the well documented litany of war crimes and crimes against humanity committed against the Palestinians and other Arab peoples.

[mommamia526]

Of course, there is another way of putting this: *This is getting old*. We know the catchprases, such as, *if it were not for them*, *if only*, *they made me do it*, *yes but*, *but first they*, *did you see, hear, what THEY were doing*. Games People Play (and politicians too). The Middle East has refined those games to a fine art, as well as the art of murder and doubletalk. Just an opinion, mind you. I could be wrong!

[mommamia526]

Well neither Hamas nor the PLO are *peaceloving*. Anyone can talk to all parties until blue in the face. But, have no fear, Jimmuh Cahteh is meeting with Hamas Chief Khaled Mashaal in Syria on April 18th. Meanwhile two Palestinians were caught just in time to prevent them poisoning the customers at a restaurant in Israel. They were illegally hired by the restaurant and residents of Gaza, however, their *mission* was an incentive of the PLO!. You know, that mild moderate one, Mahmood Abbas? Always smiling, and so friendly and nice. Condi Rice really is charmed by him. In case anyone missed it, Lebanon has, or intended to, ho (e)ld massive military training exercises at the Northern border of Israel. Israel has also held such exercises, and Syria is about to do that as well. Of course, it is all for peace! Nancy Pelose has gone to Syria and soon Jimmuh will be there as well. Obama will talk to anyone, starting with Iran. There has been lots and lots of talk and backslapping in the Middle East with U.S. intermediary. In the end neither Israel nor the U.S. makes any progress. The Middle East has set its goals, and it is patient, and never gives up. They will give honor to a visitor and afterwards murder him. Old, old customs never die. And hope, apparently, does not either. Beauty fades and stupidity is forever, and ever, amen.

[nk007]

mommamia526

Thank you for recounting all the horrors, but what is your solution? The complete extermination of Palestinians, Syrians, and Iranians? Or would you rather have a perpetual war (of course with unquestioning support of Israel by the United sates) between Israel and the Arabs? I suppose since Israel has the monopoly of nuclear weapons in the region they could go ahead and wipe out all these evil enemies. Because any one who attempts to promote genuine peace you deem to be stupid! The only smart people are those who clamor for war. But realistically are Israelis better served by a perpetual war with the Arabs? It seems clear to me that after 60 years, Israel has failed to beat the Arabs into complete submission. So Israel is really left with two options: entering into genuine peace with Palestinians that recognizes their National aspirations, or complete extermination of the Arabs and their muslim supporters such as Iran. So dear Smart mommamia526, which option would you choose?

[straightshooter]

In the final analysis, Israel will suffer the same fate as all other colonialist, settler, expansionist racist states dependent on the protection and largesse of another country thousands of miles away. If Israel's leaders were not so wrapped up in the zionist mythology and the false belief that their current military dominance will prevail, they would be doing everything possible to achieve a peace agreement with the Palestinians and Arab states instead of rejecting their repeated overtures and continuing to oppress and dispossess them while increasing settlements and stealing water in the occupied West Bank, East Jerusalem/the Old City as well Syria's Golan Heights. Time, demographics and the thrust of contemporary geopolitics are Israel's greatest enemies.

[ProudNeoCon]

As much as you want to see slaugther of Israili Jews by Arabs you will not get to see it...

[ProudNeoCon]

How is this different from "hunda" proposal? I.e. Hamas will accept two-state solution UNTIL it has military power to destry Israel compleatly...

[ResidentChimp]

If Hamas wants to negotiate, then they should recognize Israel's right to exist.

[jollyelle]

Israel exits, it's the 4th largest military industrial complex in the world, it has had WMD's for
40 years, The Economist calls it the New Silicone Valley-lots of new infrastructure,lots of research and development and the don't forget the weapons industry. Many donations from wealthy Americans.
They are able to achieve so much with the help of the government of the USA. We give Israel 7 million dollars a day,
and will continue that amount for the next 10 years. Except unlike any other foreign country, Israel gets their $$$$ in one lump sum, they set the condition to receive the $$ in just one annual payment.
The right to exist --such rhetoric, it is worn out
Hamas doesn't exist to the Israeli Gov't ...... Hamas gets "heard" through acts of terror and rocket launches to the only town the rocket will reach. And then Israel returns the fire tenfold, they have the military equipment.
Like Iraq, this occupation will never end militarily, conditions must exist and human beings must be recognized as people, not classified by religion. Generations of people living in
strife. It's time for moderate Jews to demand representation, time for moderate Jews to prevail and try something other than right wing domination tactics that have obviously not worked.

[nk007]

ResidentChimp:

Why set a precondition to Negotiation unless you are interested in not having those negotiations. Is that because Israel is strong and Hamas is weak? Let us say tomorrow Hamas, for political reasons, says that Israel has a right to exist, does that mean that they would never renege on that. Why not negotiate the establishment of an Independent Palestinian state, based on the pre 1967 borders, in exchange for Palestinian recognition of the sate of israel. I know many native Americans who do not recognize the right of the United States to exist, but honestly, does that mean any thing in reality? By throwing out this pre-condition al you are doing find an excuse as to why Israel should not negotiate with a democratic elected group representing the Palestinian people.

[ProudNeoCon]

Any negotiation has to start with some basic concepts. One side gets 30% of despute, another gets 30%, then you negotiate about last 40%...

As for democraticly elected group - well Nazi part was democraticly elected by German people...

[dshwa]

The "right to exist" arguement is not nearly as simple as you think it is, or the media portrays it to be. A few years ago one of the Hamas bigwigs was asked why he couldn't just recognze the right for Israel to exist (It might have even been Meshaal). His reply was to pull out a map of the middle east and ask the questioner "Show me Israel on this map, so that I may recognize it. Where are it's borders? Does it inclued the settlements? The occupied territories? All of Jerusalem? If I recognize Israel's right to exist then I am recognizing the right of all these things also. For me to recognize Israel these things must be addressed first" (That may not be the exact wording of his quote, but it's pretty close and has the sentiment right)

The media and American politicians don't want to let the issue seem that complicated, which is why the right to exist keeps getting bandied about. But the right to exist, from the point of view of the Palestinians, gives Israel also the right to all those other things as well. It would be giving up a great deal to Israel with nothing in return.

[ProudNeoCon]

Lets start from the begining: Does Hamas recognise Israel's right to exist in '48 borders? or 67 borders? None of them include any settlements or Jerusalem... No it does not...

[jollyelle]

Seriously, Thank you for writing this , i have never heard it clarified quite this way.......
it makes sense now, of course a people would want to know the boundaries, the rules, the limits-- figuratively and literally. Don't you think most people when they hear the catch phrase, "the right to exist' just assume that they want the Jews gone?
Your explanation legitimizes the phrase...... otherwise peace is nebulous
of course, the Palestinian people are not going to agree to agree before they know what's in store for them?

We should remind ourselves that words have cultural meanings and many are subtle but so definite.
Just like people are forever saying Amadinajad wants to "wipe Israel off the map"
He wasn't speaking english, he wasn't speaking militarily, he was referring to a regime change........he was quoting a poetic
reference that spoke of the regime in charge to vanish from the page of time. Reuters mistranslated and it has become en-grained in people's thoughts.
It is now said that 65% of Israelis would support the Gov't engaging in discussions with
Hamas. See other people have gov'ts that don't listen to them, too.
All the more reason we need a POTUS who can USE words(not McWeapons) to diplomatically deal with people. Obama is knowledgeable about the region and can definitely deal with people in a sensitive and effective way. In the meantime, Carter, another man who can skillfully use words to promote peace.

[argeec]

Israel is like Frankenstein's monster. If only the mad doctor had given it a normal brain.

[Bluedog12]

Gershom, Gershom I know hope springs eternal but the only olive branch Hamas is interested in is the one they will use to beat you to death. Have you ever seen the Hamas version of the comedy the Wedding Crashers? Yeah they blow everyone up. It's a real gas. Peace loving progressives those Hamas folks.