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Glenn L. Carle

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Hard Measures: Torture Is Humane

Posted: 05/ 1/2012 6:21 pm

CIA officers are overwhelmingly men and women of principle, who seek to shoulder the extraordinary burdens and honors of serving the United States in an amoral profession. They must have a strong understanding of the spirit of our laws, of right and wrong, when so often the choices they must make are hard and unclear.

But now we have the first, Neocon-generated apologia for some of the most controversial choices made by the Bush administration, and the CIA, during the "Global War on Terror" (GWOT): the use of "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques" (EITs) by the United States and the CIA, what in lay terms, and U.S. law, is called "torture. "

Jose Rodriguez was the chief of the CIA's Counter-Terrorism Center (CTC), while I was Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Transnational Threats, during the tense years following al-Qa'ida's attacks on 9/11, in 2001. We worked together a bit, and he was helpful to me professionally on a couple of occasions. His new book, Hard Measures: How Aggressive CIA Actions After 9/11 Saved American Lives, alleges that EITs work, are responsible for many, if not most, of the signal counterterrorism successes of the GWOT, and that these measures made it possible to "bring justice" to the mastermind of mass murder, Osama bin Laden. The argument is that EITs are carefully controlled, necessary, humane, work, and are legal. Rodriguez uses his former position as head of CTC to buttress his argument, while the book is largely written with the help of Mark Thiessen, a former speechwriter for Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and Vice President Cheney, who has set himself up as a putative expert on EITs because he had access to some telegrams on counterterrorism operations while working in the White House.

Rodriguez's assertions will be praised or condemned by the usual parties in the disputes about the efficacy and legality of EITs. On this debate I will make three observations.

Efficacy: While in the CIA, involved either directly in interrogation myself (see my book, The Interrogator, on how EITs corrupt our institutions and society), or much more broadly in my functions as a senior officer involved in assessing the validity of intelligence acquired from all sources subjected to EITs, I found that the CIA could trust no information obtained from EITs, that such information as was obtained from EITs was "recalled" for unreliability (the kiss of death in intelligence), and that no information was obtained from EITs that could not be obtained by the use of classic, legal, interrogation procedures. EITs, it turns out, for all the macho sense of control and power they imply, don't work and are unnecessary.

Legality: The legality of EITs rests on the legal casuistry of the infamous "torture memo" written by two Justice Department politically-appointed hacks, at the behest of the Office of the Vice President. But, our heritage, our laws, and our obligations as U.S. officials were, and remain, clear: The U.S. largely wrote the Geneva Conventions. The U.S. is signatory to the Convention against Torture. The U.S. is guided by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. All our government, in theory, embodies, preserves and protects the US Constitution's Fifth and Eighth Amendments ("due process of law" and "cruel and unusual punishments"). Habeas corpus underpins all our rights and freedoms, and has for 800 years. All of America's heritage and laws condemn the practices euphemistically referred to as EITs. Yet, now we are told, well, no, our heritage is wrong. EITs embody what it is to be an American and are necessary. But, the argument ("We also have to work... the dark side, if you will")* also known as Neocon "realism" is wrong, and endangers our freedoms.

Morality: Here the argument is, of course, that the ends justify the means. But we all should know that this is a spurious assertion. If you sell your soul, you forfeit what you live your life for. If the United States traduces the principles it embodies, and does so on false pretenses ("torture works"), then the United States destroys what it claims to be protecting: our freedoms, our safety, and what so many have taken oaths to preserve and protect.

But there is worse, and Rodriguez's book embodies it: Learned, respected U.S. officials, experts, and average American citizens now actually coolly debate the merits of torture. But, there is no debate to have, neither on the practical merits of torture, nor on its moral acceptability. The United States throughout its history has opposed such violations of human decency and law. The practice is antithetical to every value that Americans believe defines our society, and serves no purpose. Yet, Rodriguez and the political faction and administration which his book obliges, now assert what the facts contradict, and our values oppose. I worked on counter-terrorism issues with many good men and women in the CIA. Many of them were lastingly deluded about the nature of the threats we faced, acted in good faith, but with terrible errors of perception and policy. This book, however, does not seem so much deluded, as willfully misleading, a prop for the rear-guard Neocon advocates of and whisperers for policies now so roundly discredited that they are already relegated to the same place of infamy as the ante-bellum defenses of slavery, or place of derision as the apocalyptic visionaries awaiting the imminent-but-never-arriving end of the world prophesied in the Mayan calendar.

What have we done to ourselves since 9/11? Incredibly, torture by Americans becomes secondary: We have lost our souls; we mock our heritage; we flaunt our laws; and some of our leaders and officials claim we have known what we have been doing and are heroes for it. Hard Measures: How Aggressive CIA Actions after 9/11 Saved American Lives should be noted as part of the post-9/11 Neocon line -- despite the facts -- that torture is humane, what didn't happen did, breaking the law is legal, and that selling your soul saves it. How far some of us have sunk. Shame, shame.

* Vice President Cheney, a man who imagined himself an expert on intelligence, and willfully misinterpreted information to justify the policies he wished to pursue.

 
 
 
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CIA officers are overwhelmingly men and women of principle, who seek to shoulder the extraordinary burdens and honors of serving the United States in an amoral profession. They must have a strong und...
CIA officers are overwhelmingly men and women of principle, who seek to shoulder the extraordinary burdens and honors of serving the United States in an amoral profession. They must have a strong und...
 
 
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11:42 AM on 06/05/2012
It takes great courage to look at evil, the way Mr. Carle has, and not turn away, not cower and pretend evil is not really evil. I admire what he is doing.

The function of a written Constitution is to codify the vital enduring principles which people instinctively abandon when ruled by fear. The principles of our Constitution are counter intuitive to people living in fear. “Terrorists don’t have rights!” is the cry of a terrified person. Enjoying the blessings of liberty requires a people with the courage to live in liberty. We can’t be the land of the free if we are not home of the brave. Our response to 9/11 has shown the whole world how weak our commitment to those principles is, that we are not the home of the brave. Therefore our freedom is a delusion, mere PR.
02:43 PM on 06/05/2012
no, it does not take great courage to be righteous after the fact. I would much rather have someone take action against evil acts inflicted on our country and people than those who sit around and pontificate later.
02:58 PM on 05/05/2012
Glenn, could it be that you are one of the "gadflys" mentioned in the book who have promoted themselves as "experts" who had access when they really did not. You sound bitter...
11:56 AM on 06/05/2012
Madgepie, could it be that you are a coward, whispering lies and innuendo from the shadows out of jealousy and shame at how quickly you abandonded the principles of our nation at slightest hint of danger?
01:05 PM on 06/05/2012
well, I dont know if I would have the courage to stand up and make hard decisions fully knowing that people would much later criticize from the sidelines. But I would hope that I am not that person criticizing from the sidelines who did not have the weight of the safety of a nation on his shoulders.
08:36 PM on 05/02/2012
I wonder if the Chinese government watched Jose Rodriguez on 60 Minutes when he said that American agents would threaten to rape a prisoner's wife and children in order to get them to talk. Since the US government has taken no action against these agents the Chinese figure that the US can have no objection if they persuade a human rights activist to leave the safety of their embassy by threatening to beat his wife to death.

Why should the Chinese or anyone else take the US seriously on human rights when Jose Rodriguez is not only not in prison but is free to profit from his war crimes?
02:55 PM on 05/05/2012
Hold on wombat - jose said that the agents who used those tactics were wrong to do so and reported appropriately. Please get the facts right before you publicly malign someone.
10:36 AM on 06/05/2012
Wombat has the most important fact dead right: that no one responsible for these crimes has been brought to justice, and the whole world knows that.

The whole world now knows that our claim to be a nation governed by law is a sham, that here, as the world over, the wealthy and powerful do as they please. Sadly, many Americans like it that way, claiming to be patriots when in fact they are merely sycophants.
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Gestas
Mountain Man
01:16 PM on 05/02/2012
WE (You and I) will never know how bad things were in Russia...But were starting to get a taste of it here and now.
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10:14 AM on 05/02/2012
Well said, Glenn.

Keep up the good work!
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judgeholden79
You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?
09:26 AM on 05/02/2012
21st Century Code:

Principle 1: Security of the state is the highest goal. All else is subservient. All means used to achieve security of the state are justified and permissible.
Sub-principle : Security of the individual is secondary to that of the state. Security of the individual must be violated if it will advance the security of the state.
Sub-Principle: Freedom of the individual must be abridged if it will advance the security of the state.
Proviso: Economic freedom must be preserved wherever possible.

Principle 2: The second highest goal of the state is to preserve existing property rights.
Sub-principle: Subject to Principle 1, no action of the state is permissible if it would have the net effect increasing the "unearned" wealth of any portion of the populace.
Proviso: The sub-principle shall not apply to passive wealth, inheritance or subsidies to industry.
Sub-Principle: Freedom of the individual may be abridged if it will advance existing property rights.
Sub-Principle: Limited liability must be preserved at all costs.

Principle 3: The third highest goal of the state is to preserve prevailing religious doctrine.
Sub-Principal: Minority religious doctrines need not be protected.
Proviso: Religious doctrine may be ignored if it conflicts with principles 1 and/or 2.
10:48 AM on 06/05/2012
I enjoyed your post. In my opinion your “21 Century Code” is actually the traditional code of government now being embraced by the American people, ending our 200 year experiment with a different code.
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Shadow Diver
When The Going Gets Weird, The Weird Turn Pro
08:10 AM on 05/02/2012
Black is white. Up is down. Welcome to the GOTP.
10:49 AM on 06/05/2012
It is far wider spread than the GOTP.
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OzzieTonto
“Hatred, the only thing that lasts.”
05:47 AM on 05/02/2012
You are absolutely correct: there is no debate, no rational reason, no excuse for torture. There is only a massive wall of lies, put up by vile people who seek to terrorise the world at large and now, the American people too.
I say the only question left to ask is, why are sick, perverted sadists allowed to remain in positions where they can predate upon defenceless people in their charge? Why does a practice so long historically known to result in no reliable intel contine? Remember, these folks will end up in the community after they've done their tour in Bagram, Abu Ghraib or secret black sites. You will have to deal with twisted individuals who have made a daily practice of inflicting pain and suffering. If returned soldiers from AfPak and Iraq are breaking down, what's likely to result from the presence of service personnel who have been depraved into these foul practices? Will they end up in police forces? Prisons? TSA?
10:53 AM on 06/05/2012
The greatest power of evil is that decent people refuse to recognize it when they see it.
05:26 AM on 05/02/2012
Rodriquez admits (readily) to committing/witnessing torture so he needs to be arrested on sight, charged and held without bond while he awaits trial. The fact that he is on MSM making his case is a gag reflex moment and a glimpse into what we have become. How far we have sunk since Bush 2 and 9/11. History will not judge us kindly.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Marcospinelli
an old liberal Democrat, a 'New Deal'-Democrat
04:47 AM on 05/02/2012
Feinstein and Levin: Hassan Ghul Revealed Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti’s Role, and Then We Tortured Him

Dianne Feinstein and Carl Levin have released a statement that basically says Jose Rodriguez’ Big Boy Pants are on fire for the lies he has told about the torture program.

The statement is interesting for two reasons. First, it gets closer and closer to saying that the torture program was successful primarily in eliciting false confessions.

Further, it’s worth repeating, as discussed in the Senate Armed Services Committee’s 2008 report, the SERE techniques used in the CIA’s interrogation program were never intended to be used by U.S. interrogators. Rather, the techniques – which are based on Communist Chinese interrogation techniques used during the Korean War to elicit false confessions â€“ were developed to expose U.S. soldiers to the abusive treatment they might be subjected to if captured by our enemies. An overwhelming number of experts agree, the SERE techniques are not an effective means to illicit accurate information.

It’s really time for them to be as clear as their leaking aides are in saying, anonymously, that the torture program got–and was designed to get–false confessions.

Hopefully, as Jose Rodriguez’ torture tour continues, they’ll get over this reticence.

The statement also confirms what was described in this AP report: that the CIA detainee who provided the most important intelligence leading to Osama bin Laden–who has been reported as Hassan Ghul–did so before we tortured him.

The CIA detainee who provided the most significant information about the courier provided the information prior to being subjected to coercive interrogation techniques.

So we tortured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and he gave up invented locations for OBL (while hiding the courier). But we got key evidence from Ghul that might have led to OBL and … we tortured him anyway.

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Kurt Mundt
Interesting world we live in, eh?
04:41 AM on 05/02/2012
The worst thing is that NO ONE has been held accountable for torure, not even those whom proudly proclaim their felonies.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Marcospinelli
an old liberal Democrat, a 'New Deal'-Democrat
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Marcospinelli
an old liberal Democrat, a 'New Deal'-Democrat
04:21 AM on 05/02/2012
What US Taxpayers funded & What Obama's Covering Up -- 

CIA gave waterboard­ers $5M legal shield:
When the CIA decided to waterboard suspected terror detainees in overseas prisons, the agency turned to a pair of contractor­s. The men designed the CIA's interrogat­ion program and also personally took part in the waterboard­ing sessions.

But to do the job, the CIA had to promise to cover at least $5 million in legal fees for them in case there was trouble down the road, former U.S. officials said.

Turns out the contractor­s needed that secret agreement as taxpayers pay to defend the men in a federal investigat­ion over an interrogat­ion tactic the United States now says is torture. The deal is even more generous than the protection­s the agency typically provides its own officers, giving the two men access to more money to finance their defenses.

It has long been known that psychologi­sts Jim Mitchell and Bruce Jessen created the CIA's interrogat­ion program. But former U.S. intelligen­ce officials said Mitchell and Jessen also repeatedly subjected terror suspects inside CIA-run secret prisons to waterboard­ing, a simulated drowning tactic.

The revelation of the contractor­s' involvemen­t is the first known confirmati­on of any individual­s who conducted waterboard­ing at the so-called black sites, underscori­ng just how much the agency relied on outside help in its most sensitive interrogat­ions.

Normally, CIA officers buy insurance to cover possible legal bills. It costs about $300 a year for $1 million in coverage. Today, the CIA pays the premiums for most officers, but at the height of the war on terrorism, officers had to pay half.

The Mitchell and Jessen arrangemen­t, known as an "indemnity promise," was structured differentl­y. Unlike CIA officers, whose identities are classified­, Mitchell and Jessen were public citizens who received some of the earliest scrutiny by reporters and lawmakers. The two wanted more protection­.

The agency agreed to pay the legal bills for the psychologi­sts' firm, Mitchell, Jessen & Associates­, directly from CIA accounts, according to several interviews with the former officials, who spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Marcospinelli
an old liberal Democrat, a 'New Deal'-Democrat
04:18 AM on 05/02/2012
The purpose of waterboarding was not to get real or accurate information. It was to get false information. Among the tasks it was used for (none about getting real intel, none for the "ticking time bomb"-scenario) was to set up a justification to attack Iraq. To link 9/11 and Iraq. To link Saddam Hussein to Al Qaeda. The tapes would have shown that. It had nothing to do with the wishes of the interrogators, although it's clear now that the CIA used sociopaths in the agency to carry it out. The Enhanced Interrogation Techniques' order came from inside the White House.
12:16 PM on 05/02/2012
Yeah, that's true, but there's a lot more to this story than "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques' order." That explains the CIA's involvement, but there were other things that led to torture. I just read the book "None of Us Were Like This Before," and learned a LOT about how US forces turned to torture, and the devastating effects it had on detainees AND our soldier. Gotta check it out...
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StillAmused
Some mayo on that troll, please...
02:41 AM on 05/02/2012
We finally have to face it... there's a segment of the population — our own population — that is stimulated and aroused by inflicting pain, terror and abuse on others. For them, it's the go-to tactic in a pinch, and no one will convince me that such infliction can be administered dispassionately, "professionally", clinically or unenthusiastically by 'patriots' who do not suffer a major underlying personality disorder.

We've been subjected to so much jingoistic drivel, with 'America The Beautiful' playing in the background, that we've almost come to believe "enhanced interrogation" (they have their own vocabulary) has "protected us from the terrorists".

For all the provocative, ominous news clips of jihadis running balance beams in the desert, the fact remains that the horrific events of September, 2001 could have literally been planned in a phone booth... ANYWHERE! Further, the 9/11 hijackers, for an extended period, lived HERE and sought flight training HERE, right under the noses of an Intelligence community that wouldn't talk to the FBI, and vice-versa.

It's no surprise that the deviants who fostered and advanced the culture of torture and abuse (Cheney comes quickly to mind) now devote themselves to perpetuating the myth that those practices "led" to the operation at Abbottabad, when it's well established that YEARS of boring, methodical surveillance in fact clinched the case.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us." — Pogo
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Shadow Diver
When The Going Gets Weird, The Weird Turn Pro
08:11 AM on 05/02/2012
These people you speak of........they are the ranks from which we get our police.