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Gordon Marino

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Was Mayweather Right to Throw That Right?

Posted: 09/20/11 02:49 PM ET

Boxing took a pounding on Friday night. The too-much-hyped championship contest between Floyd Mayweather and Victor Ortiz went down in pugilistic infamy at the end of the fourth round.

With only seconds remaining in that stanza, Ortiz had "Money" Mayweather on the ropes and intentionally head-butted him. Referee Joe Cortez deducted a point. The embarrassed Ortiz literally kissed and hugged Mayweather to express his regret. Though Ortiz claims he did not hear him, Cortez instructed the boxers to resume the action and once again "Vicious Victor" went to touch gloves. Mayweather leaned forward as if to do the same and then turned over a left hook. In that instant, a shocked Ortiz made the mistake of turning his head to the ref in protest and just as he did, Mayweather hammered him with a booming right to the chin, turning the black lights on the young fighter and ending the contest.

Most of the crowd at the MGM booed in protest at the advantage that Mayweather had taken. Debates raged all over Las Vegas and I suppose throughout the nation. No one, including Ortiz, questioned the legality of Mayweather's stealthy move. The new champion defended himself saying that he had been fouled and that fighters are endlessly told "protect yourself at all times."

Mayweather's defenders rightly contend that Ortiz was fighting dirty. There were millions upon millions at stake. And they pressed, What would have happened if Floyd got a cut from the headbutt and the bout had to be stopped? Furthermore, Floyd's actions were perfectly legal and Ortiz should have known better. And that is a fact, since Mayweather did something similar to Sugar "Shane" Mosely when he went to touch gloves once too often.

Many in both camps are quick to add that Joe Cortez could have done a much better job of handling the incident. He seemed to be somewhere else as the fighters came together -- but again, Mayweather supporters insist that Floyd "did what he had to do." In other words, as long as you win within the rules nothing could be wrong. Right?

Wrong!

In every sport there are formal as well as informal rules. In football it is, for example, perfectly legal to viciously block an opponent who is miles away from the action of a play. Those who know the gridiron game call that a "cheap shot." There are informal rules in boxing as well. Touching gloves is way that one fighter apologizes to another for hitting low or on the break. Now and then an enraged boxer will refuse to accept the apology. Sometimes a boxer will touch gloves and later reciprocate with a foul in kind, and that can be within the informal rules. However, I have seldom seen a boxer pretend to accept the glove of regret, and then strike his opponent.

It would have been one thing if Mayweather simply lost his temper and punched as the ref tried to separate them, but his last two blows certainly appeared calculated and for that reason I believe it was a sin against the craft that Mayweather has clearly perfected.

There were great divisions between boxing writers after the fight. One told me, "In boxing it is kill or die." But that may be so in a street fight, but boxing is a sport, with a long history and well articulated rules.

I train boxers and I would have been profoundly disappointed if one of my fighters pulled such a stunt. Sportsmanship is as much a part of the bruising arts as it is in other sports. As I argued in the Wall Street Journal article "Why Boxing is Worth Fighting For," (Sept.17) boxing should build character as well as muscle, and though it worked, Mayweather's final salvo was anything but a lesson in character building.

True, most of the young people whom I work with are amateurs. They are not fighting for 70 million dollars. But despite what "Money" and millions of others seem to think, there really are more important things than money in life.

 
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
happyblackman
Gotta have more cowbell baby!
01:06 PM on 09/26/2011
Touch gloves once, that's it. After that game on! Ortiz wanted to apologize all night.
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Robert Ford Jr
02:40 PM on 09/26/2011
Very much so, some people feel that pugilism is a gentlemanly art. No it is the art and science of hitting and not getting hit. Floyd proved that during to whole fight. There is some level of street in prize fighting, its called street smarts. Never take your eyes off your opponent, even when touching gloves. Protect yourself at all times, formally and informally.
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
11:50 AM on 09/27/2011
It is also called the "sweet science" "the noble" and "manly art" and I don't see anything noble or manly in hitting an opponent who is not defending himself.
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Robert Ford Jr
10:11 AM on 09/26/2011
Please explain, how many times must Victor apologize? I counted three. Admittedly, Floyd lured him in, and his hands were set between Victor's. Cortez, said let's go and appeared to be giving further instruction to someone at ringside. Yet and still, Victor opened his arms and got a left hook, straight right combination to the face. The dictum, as Jim Lampley aptly stated is to protect yourself at all times. Floyd said it in the after fight interview to Larry Merchant. That is the code. Victor failed to do that, he was not prepared. I do not understand the concept of a legal cheap shot. On the other hand, if one offers themselves up as a sucker, he should he punched. To me all the hugging and hand shaking should occur only two times, at the referee's direction in the beginning of the fight, and as acknowledgement by both fighters at the end of the fight. All that other stuff during the fight is just an invite to getting knocked out. Good job Floyd, keep training, studying, and keep it real.
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
11:57 AM on 09/26/2011
I respectfully disagree. It is very common in boxing that after a foul and the ref brings the fighters back together again for the fighters to touch gloves. What Ortiz did was easily within the informal rules. Hitting a person when they are not defending themselves is not within those rules. Consider the fact that sometimes a fighter will spin around and slip so that his opponent is behind him. The opponent has then every legal right to nail him -- but 9 out of 10 fighters will let the person re-set. Floyd hit someone with their gloves down and he knew it. Thanks
10:31 AM on 09/29/2011
The first rule of boxing is protect yourself at all times. The first rule of combat is show your enemy no mercy. The sum of this fight was the result of Victor Ortiz being grossly out classed by $Mayweather. A dirty legal blow?!?! What is that!?!?! I have a ton of questions to ask Victor Ortiz. Why all the hugging and glove touching? Why after the left hook did he not put his guard up or take a knee? Why dosnt he even try to get up? After the fight he said the head butt was unintended. Please. What is this kindergarten? Two wrongs don't make a right? Turn the other cheek after you've been insulted? In my eyes the only people who have a problem with what Floyd did are the people who are already not his fans. That was the most entertaining KO I've seen in years.
08:54 AM on 09/26/2011
Everyone here is making good points so here's mine,i hope,if Ortiz hadn't statred down that path Floyd would've NEVER followed and because of the thought i give Floyd a pass.
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
10:04 AM on 09/26/2011
Very healthy way to look at it. Thanks for the insight. I'm looking forward to moving on to the Martinez bout this weekend. Hope to write something for HP on it. Hope you have a great wk Glenville and thanks again for framing the issue the way you have.
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Ezra Black
Long Live New Orleans
08:15 AM on 09/25/2011
One of the main things missing from this discussion is the reaction of Ortiz after the fight. He was awe struck and not by the last two punches. He was awe struck by the moment and there was very little angry over the way the fight ended. He was more concerned about giving the people a 'good time.'

FM mentioned earlier that VO was not ready for this moment and the atmosphere and those words proved right. Where was the fire and anger and the demand for a rematch from VO? There was none, there was only a smiling face staring into the camera with that look that wanted to say, "I just want to say hello mom and to all my fans watching."
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
10:43 AM on 09/25/2011
Ortiz was in la la land right after the fight. At the press conference he pressed for a rematch and I don't think he wanted to peeve Floyd too much. He is talking about the incident this week but for all of his goofy smiles he has been pretty clear that he thought it was a legal cheap shot.

Also, I watched the film for the first time again last night and have changed my view of one thing. I don't think Floyd was anywhere near as dominant as I thought he was on first few. One judge gave him round one, Lederman had him taking two, and I thought he was coming on in the fourth. Floyd was landing the right but it was hardly rocking Ortiz. Ortiz needed to fight FM inside and when he did that Floyd looked none to comfortable. Also, as for the three headbutts, Ortiz was warned to watch his head twice but there was nothing flagrant there. The real headbutt was insane. Floyd hit a defenseless man. Legal or not, it is a punk move.
Sorry to go off but as I mentioned it is the first time I have seen the fight in a week.
12:29 AM on 09/24/2011
http://www.boxingscene.com/cortez-admits-he-never-told-floyd-ortiz-fight--44029

According to this article, Cortez says there were no verbal instructions to resume, only a hand signal. I watched it 3 times that night and If a hand gesture was used, it must have been between Mayweather's first & second punch because Cortez wasn't looking when the first punch was thrown.
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AbeMartin
The best person fer a job is never a candidate
11:01 AM on 09/23/2011
As a boxing coach, Professor Marino, you are certainly aware that different fighters and even refs have differing interpretations of the rules.  And in the ring, there are always other inequalities, size, reaction speed, strength, endurance, tolerance of pain that give one fighter an edge over another.  Sometimes, deliberately or inadvertently a punch or a head or elbow lands below the belt, to the back of the head, or to the kidneys.  And sometimes fighters and other athletes cheat to gain an edge.

Ortiz was poorly coached by his manager, trainer and corner.  Mayweather is only about winning and preserving his unbeaten streak.  He is no different than his dad, Floyd, Sr. or his uncles, Jazzy Jeff and Roger.  And his past fights have shown a willingness to do whatever he deemed necessary to gain an edge over his opponent and then win.  He should have been instructed to keep his guard up and be alert to tricks.

As it was, distasteful as Mayweather and his latest victory are, it was a legal hit and Ortiz went from being a legitimate threat to unseat Floyd, Jr., to becoming his tomato can.
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
11:47 AM on 09/23/2011
Astute analysis. On the button. Thanks.
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Mr Anonymous
Mumpsimus, I am not entertained!
10:57 PM on 09/22/2011
The rules, formal and informal, are what keep this sport a sport and not a back alley brawl.
Great way to lower the integrity a little bit.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
10:41 PM on 09/22/2011
Sorry but the ref called time in.  There is no argument as long as the punches were legal. Saying "I wasn't ready" or I wasn't expecting to get hit is not gonna get it."

I would have liked to see the fight go to the end but Ortiz was butting Floyd every time they got close. Look at the videos again and watch what Ortiz did whenever they clinched.  Floyd worked hard to keep Ortiz's head on the left side of his face for every time Ortiz got his head on the right side of Mayweather's face he first raked him with his forehead and then butted him.  Look at it, it is there for all to see.  It is a move taught to some fighters and Ortiz seemed to be good at it. He was even warned about it.  Rematch anyone?
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
12:54 AM on 09/23/2011
Ortiz claims that he didn't hear Cortez say "fight". Joe could have been much more assertive.
He was warned once and then got a point deduction.
I don''t think a rematch is in order. FM was dominating the fight. And whatever problems I have with Floyd's sportsmanship, I have to confess that I can't believe that Ortiz took the sucker left hook and didn't go to battle-- but instead looked to the ref. Thanks.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
08:09 PM on 09/23/2011
That's what I don't get. How could Ortiz allowed himself to not be paying attention? He is in the ring with a person whose hands are lethal weapons and he clowns around. My brother thinks the fight was fixed, I have reservations about going that far. I tend to agree about no rematch. Ortiz was outclassed from the beginning. His plan to break FM's right hand with his face was a poorly thought out maneuver. I have lost respect for FM not because of his ring tactics for I understand that you do what you must to get in your opponent's head. My complaint is the way the Pacquiao match is being handled. This seems like both fighters are just dancing around each other waiting for more money.
09:52 PM on 09/22/2011
I think floyd's record speaks for itself. He picks his own fights. not the fights the public wants to see. I love floyds skill but not his character or his choosing of his own fights. Here is a great article that i think describes floyd's career. How can he be great? What makes him great? check this out
http://thelionwords.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/floyd-mayweather-vs-his-legacy/
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
10:06 AM on 09/23/2011
Thanks for passing the article along. He does pick his own fights and while some might take issue with that - he takes great pride in the fact that he has amassed enough power to be able to do that. Aside from Oscar, no one has even given the man a real challenge in the ring. Thanks
02:54 PM on 09/22/2011
So since when has anyone said the Mayweather camp has 'character?'
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
12:57 AM on 09/23/2011
I think FM's camp has a view of character that is a little different than my own. And I'm not being ironic here. They think that the right thing to do in this situation is to proceed as though it were a street fight.
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01:33 PM on 09/21/2011
Breaking the formal rules in any endeavor closes the door on whatever leeway the informal rules might generate. A deliberate headbutt is an attempt to cause injury outside of the formal rules of the sport.
My guess is that the writer is attempting to suggest that the informal demands as much consideration as the formal.
What would you imagine Ortiz's next opponent is going to work on?
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
02:14 PM on 09/21/2011
I respectfully disagree. Boxers often break the formal rules without infringing upon the informal rules. If anything the informal rules help to negotiate breaches in the formal rules. A boxer fouls and he raises his hand to tap gloves to say that he is sorry. There is nothing in the formal rules that says he or she needs to do this. Thanks.
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02:50 PM on 09/21/2011
In most instances you are referring to accidental and/or non-intentional fouls. An opponent knows the difference. The difference here is an intentional and egregious violation and that crossed the line. Ortiz did not represent himself as a champion, whatever he thought Mayweather was going to do.
What do you think was going on in Ortiz's head? An overdose of Evander Holyfield tapes?
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
10:43 PM on 09/22/2011
Ortiz butted Mayweather every time he got his head on the right side of Mayweather's face. You saw it as well as we did.
poguemahoney80
What fresh hell is this...
10:32 PM on 09/20/2011
Did Cortez call time in? He took the point, and called time, but it looked like he was jusstarting to call time in when Mayweather threw his punches. That being said however, I thought Ortiz was a little ridculous with the kissing and hugging...it is a fight and he should have been on his guard at all times. He doesn't really seem to have a fighters spirit...
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
11:46 PM on 09/20/2011
Apparently, Cortez was not too loud or clear. Ortiz said he didn't hear him. Ortiz seemed embarrassed - he was a little ridiculous with that stuff and he certainly should have known to keep his hands up- especially with FM's history. Thanks.
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
Dosadi
Political agnostic
10:44 PM on 09/22/2011
It is on tape and both fighters were looking at the ref when he did it.  Please review the video again.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Evilweasel
To err is human, to forgive is out of the question
09:29 PM on 09/20/2011
Ortiz actually butted Mayweather three times. Considering his willingness to commit blatant, potentially dangerous fouls, Mayweather was justified in legally knocking him the "F" out.
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
10:39 PM on 09/20/2011
He was justified in knocking him out but not with a sucker punch? In every other context that is considered to be cowardly. Ortiz had a deduction, the fight would have been back on. At the press conference he said that he would have koed him in the next two rds -- so why then the sucker punch? The cool, classy or whatever you want to call thing to do would have been to keep beating on him. He was dominating the fight. One judge had 2-1, the others 3-0.
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02:53 PM on 09/21/2011
"In every other context", not this one, though.
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truth889
Yahoo Sports Contributor
09:14 PM on 09/20/2011
Since you train boxers, what do you think about about the head-butt that started the whole thing? What if it opened up a cut and ended the fight? What Floyd did wasn't nice, but it didn't disgrace boxing in any way. It's boxing, if you want to watch a bunch of classy guys go at it, watch a fencing match. The way I see it, Ortiz started the foul play and Mayweather ended it.

http://www.sportscottage.com
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
09:54 PM on 09/20/2011
I think the headbutting was wrong and so did Ortiz and his coaches but I would prefer that one of my overexcited boxers headbutt someone in the heat of battle to a sucker punch.

And I see plenty of class and nobility in boxing - check out the Morales Cano fight- just because the sport is brutal does not mean it can't be carried out with nobility. Thanks
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03:03 PM on 09/21/2011
Is it "wrong" or is against the written and agreed upon rule of the sport? Why not just fight bare knuckle? Is the rule arbitrary, a rule for the sake of having a rule, or is it there for a reason? If you think that Mayweather was cowardly, then what is your judgement of a clearly intentional foul, one that could have caused serious injury?

Ortiz will recover from getting knocked on his behind and not attempting to get up, but the headbutt is gonna follow him like "no mas".
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07:28 PM on 09/20/2011
Right or wrong regarding what Mayweather did is unclear to me...But one thing is for certain: Floyd's sudden, emphatic one punch KO power against Hatton ( on a short counter punch!) and now Diaz should give Manny and Freddie Roach major cause to pause and worry concwrning Manny's tendency to charge in after he gets tagged......ka-boom!
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Gordon Marino
Gordon Marino is a professor at St Olaf College in
07:50 PM on 09/20/2011
You have a point there. I think Ortiz had his head in the wrong place all night. FM could not miss with his right hand.
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08:45 AM on 09/21/2011
first , mr. marino, thank you for consistently dialoguing back with the respondents here. you are to be applauded for that...another thought here: manny got rocked in several fights by much smaller, less powerful men than floyd; he is of course a great one, but his "take to give" style means he will be hit cleanly by floyd. whereas manny is more of an "unusual angles" puncher and quicker than ortiz (who basically comes straight in ) floyd's precison and speed will adapt to manny's angles and i sense there will be a lot of openings for Mayweather right form the opening bell to land hard right hands. does manny truly have the chin to take a lot of clean head shots and keep coming against a bigger man and such a precise puncher as floyd????