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Greg Campbell

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Sheriff Vows to Subvert CSU Gun Ban

Posted: 02/25/10 03:10 PM ET

Say what you will about Jim Alderden, Larimer County's no-nonsense, politically-incorrect sheriff, but one aspect of the man is indisputable: he's not afraid to make a stand for his convictions.

He proved it again this week. After the Colorado State University Board of Governors voted to ban guns and other weapons at the Pueblo and Fort Collins campuses, Alderden went on record with the Colorado Springs Gazette to say that he would do all he could to undermine what he considers a dangerous policy. That includes refusing to book otherwise compliant concealed-carry holders who are arrested by CSU-Fort Collins campus cops into his jail, and testifying on behalf of them in court.

He told the paper:

This ban, which is broad and encompassing, basically denies students at the Fort Collins campus any defensive capacity at all. It's a weapons-free zone for law-abiding people, and it won't do a single thing to keep armed criminals off of campus. It will only ensure them a lot of defenseless victims. The people who did this are lost in their own world of ideological liberalism. You would think people involved in academia would want to deal in data and experience, but this has been all about emotion.

The near-tragic irony of the Board of Governor's decision was that it was taken the same day a gunman opened fire at Deer Creek Middle School, injuring two children before teachers tackled him. It's a different situation, of course, because guns are banned at K-12 schools under state law -- but it serves to underscore Alderden's point. The suspect in the middle school shooting is reported to have heard voices and struggled with anger issues. That guns are banned on middle school campuses obviously means nothing to people who are unhinged and bent on violence -- why increase their odds of inflicting mayhem on yet another defenseless population, college students?

In an interview with the University of Chicago Press, author John Lott, who analyzed crime data for all U.S. counties from 1977-1994 for his book More Guns, Less Crime, argues that allowing law-abiding citizens to arm themselves has a quantifiable impact on crime rates.

Criminals are deterred by higher penalties. Just as higher arrest and conviction rates deter crime, so does the risk that someone committing a crime will confront someone able to defend him or herself. There is a strong negative relationship between the number of law-abiding citizens with permits and the crime rate--as more people obtain permits there is a greater decline in violent crime rates. For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

These findings are in line with common sense. Clear-thinking criminals (yes, a contradiction in terms) will think twice before opening fire. Mentally ill criminals will hopefully be stopped by law-abiding gun carrying citizens with fewer casualties than if no one was capable of firing back. It's lucky that the suspect in the Deer Creek shooting was armed with a single-action hunting rifle, requiring him to retract the bolt and eject the cartridge after each shot. That gave the heroic teachers time to react before he could get more shots off. Had he been armed with a semiautomatic rifle or pistol, the carnage could well have been worse, because teachers might not have been able to get close enough to stop him. In that case, a well-trained citizen or teacher with a handgun could have been a lifesaver.

All that is hypothetical, of course. But given the choice, I'd rather be surrounded by gun-toting civilians in such a situation than not. The next time I'm on the CSU campus, I'll be glad to know I have a sheriff who agrees with me.

 

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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
mediamarv
1-2-3 Is this thing working?
01:13 PM on 03/02/2010
"...he's not afraid to make a stand for his convictions."

History is filled with the escapades of evil, hate filled men who stood up for their convictions. Idi Amin was convinced that eating an enemy's heart was the right thing to do. Stalin, Hitler, Franco, et al....

Why do you make it sound like a good thing (h/t Martha)?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sort84
10:20 AM on 03/01/2010
Just out of curiosity, how many people would actually carry a concealed weapon to class?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
TOPCAT711
What a Long Strange Trip It's Been
01:08 AM on 03/03/2010
It's Colorado.

Ya' know......wolves, and bears, and stuff.
05:23 PM on 02/28/2010
That is right Sheriff show everyone what to do when you don't like a law just break it no biggie the Sheriff says it is okay. If the Sheriff can't follow the law and acknowledges publicly his intent to break the law he should be fired.
05:52 PM on 02/28/2010
Small problem Jazz, other then your reading comprehension of course. The CSU thing is a policy NOT a law
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
01:30 PM on 02/28/2010
Before "enlightened's" post disappears, I'd like to address the accusations that we will "Tag team anyone who dares to suggest a law enforcement officer should actually uphold the law......."

Consider this: In the US we have tiers of government and tiers of jurisdiction. The federal laws apply anywhere in the US. State laws only apply in that particular state. County laws only apply in that county. City or municiple laws only apply in that city or municipality. Generally any subdivision below that cannot pass laws.

That being said, the FBI enforces federal law but cannot enforce a state law county law or city law. The state police can enforce federal law and state law, but not county or city law. County sheriffs can enforce federal law, state law and count law, but not city law. City police can enforce all the laws at or above them. These are of course generalities as there can be agreements between levels of jurisdiction.

In the case of a campus vs a county sheriff, remember that a campus is almost the same as a city, but not quite. Generally a campus will not have prisons/jails or courts. They sometimes have a "police force", but they have very little power. And like a city, the county sheriff usually has no authority to enforce campus codes. He can enforce federal, state, and county codes on the campus, but not campus codes.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
02:51 PM on 02/28/2010
The "good" sheriff is just posturing then, to gain the gun vote?
03:58 PM on 02/28/2010
And E45 makes up another red herring.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
02:54 PM on 02/28/2010
I'm confident those who needed to read my post did so......the gun threads aren't generating much interest lately.....much to your chagrin.....
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
03:08 PM on 02/28/2010
What an absolutely juvenile response. Completely off the mark and avoiding the entire point of what I wrote.

Grow up.
12:12 AM on 02/28/2010
Note not a single response in opposition to the sheriff involves more than personal attacks, stereotypes and insults.

A perfect example of why firearm rights supporters have made so many strides over the last 20 years.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
enlightened45
02:52 PM on 02/28/2010
With tremendous aid from the worst Supreme Court since the Dred Scott ruling....
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
03:15 PM on 02/28/2010
Most of the "many strides " occurred long before Heller, which is an excellent ruling which actually holds with many USSC rulings before it.
06:52 PM on 02/27/2010
Didn't this man have to take an oath or something about upholding the law.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
07:07 PM on 02/27/2010
The laws of the country, state, and county. A campus does not really have much power to pass laws. Even if they could, they would be treated more like a city and county sheriffs generally cannot enforce city laws unless there are special agreements made.
10:06 PM on 02/27/2010
He swore an oath to uphold and defend the Constitutions of the State of Colorado and the United States. As did all elected officials of every level in the Country. CSU doesnt fall under that by a long shot.
12:04 PM on 02/27/2010
I'd be interested to know what the law specifically states in regard to "no carry" signs in Colorado.

In some states, a "no carry" sign has legal authority, meaning if you ignore and carry anyway, you are commiting a felony.

In other states, such signs have no legal authority, meaning ignoring them isn't breaking the law. However if you are detected and asked to leave because you have a gun, you have to leave or you can be charged with trespassing.

Which catagory does Colorado fall into?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
01:37 PM on 02/28/2010
As I recall, in Colorado violation of a "no firearms" sign on private property is treated like trespass. But since the campus is not private property, it may or may not be enforcable as trespass.
05:17 PM on 02/28/2010
That's what I'd like to find out. Is it actually a law violation to ignore campus policy banning CCW?
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mackbolan
Libertas inaestimabilis res est
11:22 PM on 02/26/2010
A majority of Americans think the federal government poses a threat to rights of Americans, according to a new national poll.

Fifty-six percent of people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Friday say they think the federal government's become so large and powerful that it poses an immediate threat to the rights and freedoms of ordinary citizens. Forty-four percent of those polled disagree.

The survey indicates a partisan divide on the question: only 37 percent of Democrats, 63 percent of Independents and nearly 7 in 10 Republicans say the federal government poses a threat to the rights of Americans.

According to CNN poll numbers released Sunday, Americans overwhelmingly think that the U.S. government is broken - though the public overwhelmingly holds out hope that what's broken can be fixed.

The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted February 12-15, with 1,023 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points for the overall survey.

Filed under: 2010 • CNN Polls
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
10:09 PM on 02/26/2010
Someday the words "gun control" will carry the same obnoxious connotations as the words "racial segregation" do now.
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
11:23 PM on 02/26/2010
So law enforcement "protection" is according to free-form interpretation by the leading authority in that jurisdiction?

How creative.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RevJimIII
Open Carry Oklahoma!!
02:56 PM on 02/27/2010
Law enforcement officers have no duty to protect the individual according to the Supreme Court, so banning concealed carry on campus just puts a target on your back. Criminals will know it is a gun free zone and the criminally insane or mentally defective will not know the difference anyway and students/faculty can defend themselves.
03:36 PM on 02/27/2010
Please show me a court case that states law enforcement has any duty to protect any citizen.

Let me save you some time. You won't find any because there are none. No one has any "right" to police protection. The duty of the police is to enforce the law, not protect any individual.
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11:31 PM on 02/26/2010
What are you trying to say? Why guns and race in one sentence?
11:43 PM on 02/26/2010
Perhaps the FACT that gun control laws are rooted in racism ? The very first gun control laws and gun bans were enacted by the Southern States post Civil War, in order to prevent recently freed slaves from owning guns because the former slave owners and their Govt lackeys were afraid of retribution. These events were directly responsible for the drafting and ratifying of the 14th Ammendment to the Constitution.
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mackbolan
Libertas inaestimabilis res est
11:53 PM on 02/26/2010
i think he is saying that just as those who advocated racial segregation are now relegated to history so will gun control/gun ban advocates also be relegated...
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06:38 PM on 02/26/2010
We need more guns on colig campusses, hi scools and evin elmentory scools to. Its a merican rite! Even kids shuld have guns. Any merican who wants a gun shuld have one cus the constution says so. We just need more guns. This is 'merica not no land of comnist morans! I was razed with guns an im smart and normal.
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
06:47 PM on 02/26/2010
Okay, you're right. Satire works as well.

As long as I'm respected it'll be fun for me, too.
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mackbolan
Libertas inaestimabilis res est
11:19 PM on 02/26/2010
glad to see you have come in from the cold....
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
03:36 PM on 02/26/2010
As we speak; relatives (plural) of mine are in college in Colorado.
I can only hope they are unarmed; carry permits or not.

Any civilian who hopes to take down a bad guy is just as likely to end up dead or wounded as not. A helluva way to get out of other responsibilities.

A few years back; I encountered a "cowboy" who came across a hostage situation in a west coast mall. Wisely; he left the building.

Unwisely, he retrieved his sidearm from his vehicle and returned to the scene.

He hopes his rehabilitation efforts will allow him to walk again; nothing wrong with a little bit of hope to get you through the day.

It only goes to show, you damn well better know how many shooters have you in their sights; police included.

This is the kind of stuff that looks good on a resumé if that's what you need to believe; some folks require more than mere survival.
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
03:51 PM on 02/26/2010
"Any civilian who hopes to take down a bad guy is just as likely to end up dead or wounded as not."

I am certain, then, that you will be able to provide references to statistics showing that armed self-defense is successful, at most, in only fifty percent of attempts. Please do so.


"A few years back; I encountered a "cowboy" who came across a hostage situation in a west coast mall. Wisely; he left the building.

Unwisely, he retrieved his sidearm from his vehicle and returned to the scene.

He hopes his rehabilitation efforts will allow him to walk again; nothing wrong with a little bit of hope to get you through the day."

An anecdotal, unverified account does not constitute a valid, statistically meaningful data set.
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
04:52 PM on 02/26/2010
Gun totin' "cowboys" rarely travel alone. Kinda hints at their true infatuation, don't it?
11:33 PM on 02/26/2010
Anecdotal evidence, worth ZERO.
03:21 PM on 02/26/2010
laws don't deter crime. if laws deterred crime there would be no crime. laws create crime by making an action an offense. proper education and the elimination of poverty would be a huge step to actually deter crime.
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
03:43 PM on 02/26/2010
Just curious, how many times did you post something else today before this one got through?

I'm still waiting to see if my third post in all its edifying glory, yet appears.
02:21 PM on 02/26/2010
Nothing like a county sherrif defying the law. He should be removed from off office and forfeit his public pension.
02:49 PM on 02/26/2010
The legislators who knowingly subvert the second amendment should be removed from office. His motivation is protecting innocent people from criminals; the CSU Governors are motivated by their political ideologies.
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
08:13 PM on 02/26/2010
That's an interesting opinion. How strange that the Supreme Court of the United States of America has yet to write that opinion.

How convenient it must be to retrieve information from a selectively compartmentalized meat puppet data dump.
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
03:34 PM on 02/26/2010
To what specific law is Sheriff Alderden in defiance?
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
11:27 PM on 02/26/2010
Would you feel safe in a county where the only legal authority operates as "judge, jury & executioner"?

The Sheriff can only interpret the law; not okay making up new ones as the occasion arises.
01:58 PM on 02/26/2010
I never felt the need for a gun in college, but then again, there were quite a few incidents that occurred on campus in which a gun would have been helpful. One such: during a nursing class, a disgruntled failure of a student (taking the class for the third time) stood up, pulled a gun out of his backpack and shot both professors in the room and another student. If I had been in that classroom, I probably would have liked to have had a gun (and the poor victims probably wished someone else had a gun as well). There were other incidents, such as a man from the surrounding campus area sneaking into a dorm and crawling into a bed that a girl was sleeping in. I probably would have liked to have had a gun if I were that girl or her roommate. The point is, more often than not, people who like to have guns for protection are responsible people - not gun nuts and not paranoids. A few signs that say "Weapons Free Zone" don't really do much for the disturbed individual planning violence or sexual assault...they don't care. IMO the gun debate has been decided for a while now. Just last year Democrats expanded gun rights into national parks.....an admission that those who buy and license their guns legally aren't the people to worry about.
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
03:39 PM on 02/26/2010
Your attitude should make me feel safer. Why doesn't it?
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Dimensio
I just don't know what went wrong!
03:52 PM on 02/26/2010
Perhaps you are irrational.
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GirlOutWest
I hope to be the person my dog thinks I am.
06:45 PM on 02/26/2010
I'm with you AdamSmith3...doesn't make me feel safer. What is the acceptable age to start carrying weapons to school? 12? 16? Why stop at 18?
01:56 PM on 02/26/2010
I will no longer acknowledge the county sheriff as a figure of authority.
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ranchero42
Taunt him with the licence of ink...
08:20 PM on 02/26/2010
Truth is, even Homeland Security in its manifold sub-agencies must confer with the highest law-enforcement authority before operations in that county commences.

Speaking of which, I wonder how many parents with children at that University will allow them their "commencement"?

Funny how nobody brought that up before.
Berettasskeeter
For what we are about to receive, may we be truly
11:11 PM on 02/27/2010
How many parent with chilren at that University will NOT allow them their commencement?
Semper fi