Obama Glides, McCain Punches-- Big Winner Is Joe the Plumber!

Four and out? A sweep for the Democrats? I expected to sit down tonight and write the same script from the past three encounters: Obama or Biden easily win on points and demeanor, pundits call it a draw anyway, polls mock the pundits by showing an easy win for the Dem. Ho-hum.

But this one at Hofstra was a little different, perhaps because of the seating arrangement, McCain's growing desperation, or due to a more pushy moderator. It was like Muhammad Ali vs. Sonny Liston again -- the glider vs. the puncher -- but without the knockout of Liston.

The big winner: Joe the Plumber.

Joe, can I be your agent? The book and movie deals will be arriving within hours.

Forget Joe Six-Pack. We have a new American icon, who may not need a designated driver on the way home from the soccer game.

And by the way, the average annual pay for a plumber in the U.S. is around $45,000.

The two candidates invoked and evoked Joe the Plumber, even addressed him directly. Obama seemed to be more concerned about speaking to him than remembering why Sarah Palin was a joke as a veep candidate. Handed a golden opportunity to confront this -- he wasn't asked at first if she was qualified, just to say why his veep choice was better -- he simply danced around it. Meanwhile, he let McCain sock Biden -- and for that matter, punch all night without much more than a jab in return.

It was rope-a-dope but without the Ali flurry that destroyed George Foreman. Still, because of his answers on abortion and the Supreme Court choices, and some of the economic and medical issues, he managed to come out okay, possibly even on top. Ali did win many fights on many an off-night.

But forget the instant polls after the debate. The only view anyone will now care about belongs to.... Joe the Plumber. Hey Joe, where ya gonna go? A nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

UPDATE: AP reached Joe and he still isn't saying who he will vote for. "It's pretty surreal, man, my name being mentioned in a presidential campaign," he said. One report indicated that he has always been a McCain supporter and isn't even registered to vote. Interviewed by Katie Couric this morning he compared Obama to...Sammy Davis Jr. He also said he is against Social Security. A later Toledo Blade report claims he is a registered Republican.

Read more reactions to the Obama-McCain Presidential Debate from HuffPost bloggers
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Greg Mitchell is editor of Editor & Publisher. His new book on Iraq and the media is "So Wrong for So Long." For more on the media and the campaign go to: http://www.eandppub.com

Comments

[toppergem]

Joe the supposed plumber! What a joke. Just a McCain plant I am sure. Obama out classed McCain once again in the debate. Joe and John is that all you got? You better bring it on if you expect to win this election!!!!!!!!

[Serious Lee]

I heard Joe compare Senator Obama to Sammy Davis, Jr.

That's when I was sure of what we were dealing with!

[businessmom]

Joe the Plumber is trying to point out how bad Obama's plan is. Higher taxes on small business will hurt the economy.

I am a business owner with 3 kids and my business is my 4th baby. I want it to grow. I want to hire more people. Do the numbers. A $250k profit is already taxed at 35%(fed)+8%(state)+4%(local). That leaves about $125k. I pay one of my Software consultants about $100k. I pay another $15k in social security and medicare. I pay another $12k in benefits. I match 4% in a 401k. Without counting bonuses or overhead of any other kind. Not only is there none left for ME to take home to raise my kids, I am already in the hole if I hire someone. It's already hard to grow a business. Obama will make it harder to add jobs. Instead he wants to put it into the government (who manages our money terribly).

[milo h minderbinder]

So you think it's OK for this Joe guy to try and make a point by LYING about his financial situation? Sorry, I have no respect for that.

And it sounds like you really need to hire a professional to do your finances for you. If you pay an employee, that money goes out BEFORE taxes. You don't pay taxes until after you deduct that and other things like rent. Based on the numbers you gave, it sounds like you aren't ending up with much in profits so you'd be in a lower tax bracket.

Based on those numbers, 250-100-15-12=about 120k after deductions (and you likely have quite a bit more than that depending on your business). Even at a high tax bracket, you're still looking at keeping 80k easily.

Call me a skeptic, but your comments make you sound like another Joe who fabricated numbers to try and give a bogus "example".

[caterpol]

Oh please. Every poll says Obama came out ahead and most of them cite tone. Obama was very wise not to attack Palin's creds and remain respectful.

Obama's job last night wasn't to throw red meat to the base (something that's sinking McCain/Palin) so we could all live vicariously, it was to stay on message.

[politicallyconcerned]

Joe the plumber is quite honestly a Republican plant or a sincerely mis-informed McCain supporter.
If, indeed, he is about to purchase a plumbing business that makes more than $250,000 in PROFITS (and is in the top 5% of small businesses) then of course he should pay his fair share of taxes. It is more likely that the company grosses $250K and has lower profits, in which case he will benefit MORE from Obama's economic plan.

BTW, any truth to the rumor that this guy is NOT a plumber?

[kimleehan]

Sounds like the McCain campane is so full of, you know what, that McCain needed to call a plumber.
Well anyhow the s--t is about to hit the fan. Joe's a McCain plant. Sounds like someone in the McCain's campane is doing to much plumbers crack thinking they could get away with that,

[joesnuffy]

If Joe the Plumber is even considering buying a business for $250,000 it means that he is doing just fine. He is living comfortably in a nice house somewhere and has options of buying businesses. He is not the one to feel sorry for. Boo hoo, I can't afford to buy a quarter million dollar business. Boo hoo. My heart goes out to you, Joe.

In a McCain administration, Joe gets that tax break and can buy that business, makes more money, and is able to buy an even nicer home and car. But then Juan the gardner has more and more trouble making ends meet and has to take on a 3rd job.

[Btline]

Joe the Plumber" - Not registered to vote; no business license on file; repeats the Republican talking points at this morning's press conference; and adds in a comment to Katie Couric in a telephone call that "Obama dances around issues like Sammy Davis, Jr.". This guys sounds more like Archie Bunker than Mr. Middle America, and the McCain campaign is going to be embarassed when it is exposed that he was planted by them to ask Obama that specific question using the $250,000 threshhold, and that this was all staged. Very dishhonest and I doubt that McCain knew all of this when he used "Joe" as one of his key talking points in last night's debate. This is an example once again of McCain being dictated to by the folks running his campaign and not being fully informed.

[trinity29]

yes i agree. i hope this comes out fully in the open. it didnt rattle obama but it just backfired on mccain.

[milo h minderbinder]

Supposedly he is registered to vote (republican), just the registration has his name spelled wrong.

I wonder if the GOP will strip his name from the polls based on the spelling error and lose his vote?

[jchflorida]

Sounds like Joe is paying too much for the plumbing business ....even at that he's equating either the sale price of the business or the gross sales of the business as his income . It sounds like he could make a good income 150k or so and still get the tax breaks under Obama .

[PaulL2]

This was really a poor "debate". Obama seemed so scripted that he lost his lines. McCain got in a few good ones, but was otherwise pathetic, and again looked old and tired. If I had any doubt about Obama, which I did not, McCain's performance did not help his cause much. As for Joe the Plumber, chances are he would purchase the plumbing business as an S-corp or LLC, like most small businesses, in which case all profits would pass through to him directly as personal income. There would be no corporate income tax. That's after he deducts his personal vehicle, cell phone, etc. that are "company property." And after all is said and done, the likelihood that he will make 250,000 in personal income is somewhere between none and non-existent, especially in an economic dead zone like Toledo. (I lived there in the 80's and early 90's. It was in bad shape then -- I can't even imagine what it is like now.) How would his health insurance be handled under each candidate? That would depend on the fine print of how S-corps and LLC's would be handled. All this said, and even without the name from the Keating 5 days, he sounds like a shill to me.

[kimleehan]

I just saw a interview of Joe the plumber on msnbc. He's a idot, He does'nt know what he wants. He's aganst paying his share of his taxes, he does'nt want to pay social security for his workers.He just wants to hang out with his thirty odd freinds. He don't like big goverment, He's got his and does'nt care about the ones who don't even have a pot to piss in. He even complains that they have a cell phone. I guess you can say he's a republican.

[trinity29]

i have wondered if joe the plumber is a plant from the mccain campaign

[StillAmused]

Another time-out for the comatose press (much of it), which has imparted proportional equivalency to the claim of "negative campaigning by both candidates".

Er, let's see... McCain led the charge to invade Iraq, enjoys a 'D' rating from veterans on their issues, never saw a multinational oil company or trust-fund baby that didn't deserve a tax break (not so much, the other 90 percent of Americans), flew -- along with his family -- in Charles Keating's private jet to the Bahamas and elsewhere at least ten times, has allowed his campaign and running-mate to smear Obama as someone who "pals around with terrorists"... and whose campaign events exhibit a curious, inexplicable attraction for whackos given to exhortations of "Kill him!" and "Terrorist!"

... while Obama's campaign occasionally points out those facts (and makes a mockery of the ginned-up "extensive relationship" between Obama and Ayers fabricated by McCain's imaginative scriptwriters).

Yeah... both camps are engaging in "negative campaigning".

We'll be right back with more in-depth analysis after this commercial break .

[trinity29]

yeah they need to keep up this lie so that they can call it a horse race when its not. i have stopped watching them all except for rachel and keith

[milo h minderbinder]

This guy is a joke, he shouldn't be getting any press.

He doesn't make 250k, so RIGHT NOW he would get a better deal from the Obama tax plan.

This guy is supposed to be an example of the typical american, but his example isn't even a real one, he had to make up a hypothetical situation in order to be "hurt" by Obama's plan.

Just let this guy fade back into obscurity, his "story" is irrelevant to the country.

[trinity29]

do you think he was goaded by mccain? because mccain was so quick to remember his first and last name and he is not the best when it comes to remembering anything let alone a last name of a plumber on the campaign trail.

[retrieverman1]

If only Joe were registered to vote. No wonder he went to bed early last night and said, "I agree with McCain."

[SunnyDay]

Unfortunately when the BBC interviewed Joe the Plumber he talked about how important candidates actions were. He said that McCain was a big war hero who had done so much for America and didn't say anything about Obama. So we are left to conclude that he is one of those who is believing the Palin attacks about him being a terrorist. So sad. This is why we desperately need to fix our schools so that we are an educated nation rather than one with people who are willing to believe the vilest lies without investigating for themselves.

[trinity29]

i am beginning to think the joe the plumber was not really a non partisan supporter who came out to the rally. it was a set up.