Petraeus in 2003: "Tell Me How This Ends" -- and He Still Doesn't Know

Posted April 8, 2008 | 03:53 PM (EST)



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What will end up being the most famous quote of the Iraq war? Remember, Bush did not actually say "Mission Accomplished." Perhaps Cheney's "final throes" will win the prize. . But increasingly, as the significance of Gen. David Petraeus grows (seemingly by the minute), I have come to believe that it might up being his once-obscure 2003 remark: "Tell me how this ends." It was cited again today by Andrew Bacevich in his New York Times op-ed contribution.

Petraeus said that when he was a Major General directing the 101st Airborne during the U.S. invasion but it's clear that today he has no more of a clue to the answer than he did five years ago.

Who did he say the five words to? The lucky recipient was Rick Atkinson, the Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter for The Washington Post and military historian. It shows up in in Atkinson's book about the attack on Iraq, In the Company of Soldiers, which featured Maj. Gen. Petraeus as a key character. I recommend the book for its portrait of Petraeus as a media-friendly, but somewhat scary (in his focus and drive) character.

When I interviewed Atkinson about it (there's a chapter about it in my new book on Iraq and the media), he said he considered the Petraeus quote a "private joke" at the time, but it soon became the general's "mantra."

In the post-invasion epilogue for his book, Atkinson speaks frankly. Petraeus and his soldiers had performed well, taking relatively few casualties, and showing both restraint and courage in battle. But they "were better than the cause they served." It was "vital not to conflate the warriors with the war." The casus belli f or the war, that Iraq posed an imminent threat to America, "was inflated and perhaps fraudulent." And if "the war's predicate was phony, it cheapened the sacrifices of the dead and living alike."

So I asked Atkinson in 2004 whether he felt the book was somewhat hollow, documenting the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time. Did he have mixed feelings about his own effort? "There's nothing mixed about it at all," he fired back. "I was against the war before, during, and after it. I have no mixed feelings about the hundreds of dead soldiers--it was a poor use of their lives. I was certain last March that we as a nation had not done all we could to make sure lives were not lost, but I'm dogmatic about it now."

As a scholar of World War II, with popular books on that to his credit, the lesson he draws is "that if you're going to fight a global war, whether it's against the Axis in the 1940s or against terrorism today, nothing is more vital than nurturing a powerful, righteous coalition." Failing to do this has placed a tragically unfair burden on our military. "They took down a country the size of California in three weeks," he pointed out, "but there was not much thought devoted to the question of what happens next. It's astonishing how little thought was given."

But what about the argument that leaving Iraq now would dishonor the soldiers who have died so far? "It's not George Bush's military," he replied, "but the country's as a whole, and the collective proprietorship means we collectively decide if it is used properly and the cause is worth their sacrifice--and whether that cause should be truncated or we stay there forever."

Greg Mitchell's new book is So Wrong for So Long: How the Press, the Pundits -- and the President -- Failed on Iraq.It includes a preface by Bruce Springsteen and a foreword by Joe Galloway, and has been hailed by our own Arianna, Bill Moyers, Glenn Greenwald and others.

 

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There are two things America must learn from its recent history. First, it is too easy to start a war. Second, it is very difficult to end it. i would add that every protracted military engagement we have had since 1945 has endangered and weakened the country far more than any foreign threat or enemy might be able to do on its own. This is the true measure of our leadership and the despotism of ignorance that we seem to willingly tolerate at the risk of our own freedom. But the problem is not just our leaders. Having become immune to logic, empty of knowledge, and numb to catastrophe, the public is not only unable to stop mindless wars or end tragic mistakes, it is not inclined to try. The only options left are bumper sticker patriotism or wishful indifference. This is how it (America) ends.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:47 PM on 04/09/2008

There are known knowns.
These are things we know that we know.
There are known unknowns.
That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know.
But there are also unknown unknowns.
There are things we don't know we don't know.

~~~

just can't top that one.

~~~

Rank / Country / Military budget
1. United States (2008) - $623bn
2. China (2004) - $65bn
3. Russia - $50bn
4. France (2005) - $45bn
5. United Kingdom - $42.8bn

http://mondediplo.com/2008/02/05military

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 04/09/2008

The war will end when George Bush tells him it will end. His only job right now is to keep the war and occupation going indefinitely until Bush can find it politically expedient to end it. This is a fabricated war made on lies and deceit. There was no end game planned because the end is a totally subjective decision to be made at a later date. What is certain from listening to these hearings is that Iran is the next target and the justification for going to war there is being laid without too much questioning by our members of congress. If this is left unchecked we will certainly be over there for the next 100 years as McCain put it.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:30 AM on 04/09/2008


The occupation will end when the Iraqis sign on the dotted line giving away 80% of their oil revenue to US Big Oil.

In the mean time we'll continue slaughtering them until they see our way; we have killed more than Saddam already.

This invasion and occupation is akin to the Third Reich invading and occupying Poland to get access to the Polish iron ore. When are we, US citizens, going to see the light?

The analogy to WWII is valid only if it is used to describe us the aggresive country with no casus belli.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:02 PM on 04/09/2008

Of all the disgusting, repulsive slogans this invasion has generated - and they are legion - by far the most hideous is "We fight them over there so we won't have to fight them here." Newsflash: IT'S OUR WAR! Over here is precisely where we should be fighting "them." If innocent children have to be maimed and butchered for no earthly reason - it should be our children, not Iraqi children. Because IT'S OUR WAR. All we did was force it on the Iraqis, so we could keep on shopping till we drop. In truth, no people on earth should ever be allowed to have a war unless it's fought on their own soil, in their own back yards, with their own families being blown to bits. I suspect that might reduce the glamour and romance of war.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 AM on 04/09/2008

GOPERS are like that last guy at a party who just wont leave
Mission accomplished was five years ago-Saddams dead
WHY THE F ARE WE STILL IN IRAQ

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:03 AM on 04/09/2008

This is how it ends.

If Sadr wins the election in October he will ask us to leave.

We will leave and the Iraqis will work it out with help from Iran.

Can you imagine Bush and McCain explaining Prim Minister Al Sadr before the Nov. elections.

Get your popcorn ready.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 02:32 AM on 04/09/2008

The CheneyBush will do everything in its power to prevent Sadr from becoming the PM. Where do you think they are taking all of those rejected Diebold machines ?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 AM on 04/09/2008

Our goals were never to free Iraqis, our goals were to incite the mullahs in the Middle East so we could bomb them into oblivion, particularly Iran, which is progressing as planned. The fragile situation will be allowed (incited?) to blow when the rest of the world stops blocking us from leveling Iran.

The surge is working lovely, it bought time for the "political reconciliation" we need to get permission from the worlds governments to let us proceed without return fire coming our way, and Congress did just fine in playing their parts as "concerned overseers of the public interest" Complete farce.

Bring the troops home, forget the theater. If we can't stop this, at least get our men and women home before it happens.

BRING THEM HOME NOW

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:18 AM on 04/09/2008

"Tell me how this ends."

It ends with "regime change" in America, followed by a massive effort to green and diversify our energy consumption.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:11 AM on 04/09/2008

My dad was a career Army officer and I am glad he did not live to see this: a military man given the job of enabling an OCCUPATION (please, not a WAR). Read some history: occupations always end. Patreaus agreed today to enable a 'kick the can' strategy, all stall. Each senator should have asked just one question: "How many dead TODAY, sir?" I wonder how many more dead (Iraqis too, sir) before we are forced to leave (which all of those senators know we will be forced to do). In Vietnam it was 20,000 (u.s.), and we will never have a count of dead Vietnamese.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:09 AM on 04/09/2008


Indeed.

When will the msm stop calling this a "war" and starts calling it what it is: an OCCUPATION ?

How many more Iraqis do we have to slaughter? How many American GIs will have to die before this occupation is over?

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:17 PM on 04/09/2008

Typical surrender monkey discourse. The idea that the people decide is exactly right. The question is why won't the surrender monkeys accept the verdict? President Bush was re-elected. Why doesn't congress support the will of the people? And if they think the will of the people is to stop the war, why do they continue to fund it? Now in 2008, the people will again vote and their choice is clear. Support those who would cut and run or those who stays the course. That's how a Democracy works.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:50 AM on 04/09/2008

How soon we forget. Reporter to DIck Cheney, "Over 70 percent of the American public is against the war now."

Dick Cheney to reporter, "So?"

81 percent of Americans think the country is heading in the wrong direction.

Your answer? "So?"

The people don't decide. That is fantasy. The people didn't reelect (or elect for that matter) Bush. Congress doesn't support the will of the people, but not in the way you mean. The people want out, but Congress doesn't support cutting off funding. They and the executive branch get too much money from the war to stop it.

If Hillary is the Democratic nominee there will be no choice between getting out or staying. She and McCain are the same on the war. Obama, not so much but he's now saying we'll have to stay just a wee bit longer -- you know the "extra six months" that Petraeus and Bush are always asking for.

And please, lose the "cut and run". Nobody's talking about that. Except Fox news.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:42 AM on 04/09/2008

Good points.

The people elected the Republicans, and the Republicans are destroying the best military ever created.

Maybe that will change in November. Its obvious that Congress has abdicated its war-making powers and has ignored its responsibility to the military.

Pathetic.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:59 AM on 04/09/2008

Call me paranoid but this guy struck me more as the Pentagon's Ambassador than somebody who reports to Constitutional government.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:01 AM on 04/09/2008

Petreaus responded the same way today when asked about if the war was planned well etc and he fudged it. Someone should have asked him why he didn't know or give a direct answer because this war has been going on for yeras. Doesn't he have a clue? Not.The questions were much harder the last time, which scares me because it says that the Iraq war is here to stay. We've lost the war and Bush has won.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:37 PM on 04/08/2008

In a sense, David Petraeus is something of a tragic figure in the same way that Maxwell Taylor was tragic. I'm not defending either man since they are/were capable and intelligent men. Both men however permitted themselves to be guided by a philosophy of leadership that can perhaps be summed up by Taylors creed that a military leaders should not just support the President's decisions but also be a true believer in them (h eas referring to the Chirman of the JCS). Both men used statistics (and a degree of deception) to support their ideas and both men claimed victory was possible in an impossible situation. Taylor essentially cut the JCS out of the decision making equation and Bush has cut out anyone but Petraeus. Taylor was proven wrong and ended his life defending his Vietnam war thinking. I suspect Petraeus will end up much the same way as Taylor and will write a memoir that seeks to preserve a prior legacy of bravery and excellent service. The big difference is that Petraeus may get a call to serve on various corporate boards, right wing think tanks, or a lobbying firm while Taylor had to make due with his military retirement since those weren't common options in the 1970s.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:27 PM on 04/08/2008


This is not a war... it is an OCCUPATION.

You don't win an occupation, what is there to win???

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 12:13 PM on 04/09/2008

Excellent post. The best way to 'support the troups' is to stop wasting
their lives and limbs on a tragic mistake.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:28 PM on 04/08/2008

I have a Grandson over there in Iraq and I pray he make it back home and every other Man and Woman that is over there. It is time to end this War. Bring everybody back home.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 10:22 PM on 04/08/2008

Why are we there? NEWSFLASH - you are there because many of you elected a President (twice) that engaged in a pre-emptive strike on a secular nation. SIMPLE. Obviously, half of this country is incapable of objective analysis because as an ordinary citizen, I RESEARCHED Iraqi and knew our invasion would ignite a civil war once the area became unstabilized. America DESTROYED this country as the rest of the world agressively protested against our invasion and the American citizens returned the favor by electing George W Bush Jr to a second term. Then we display our ethnocentric mentality about their need for self-sufficiency because, HEY, It's their country and they need to fix it. NO, WE NEED TO FIX IT SINCE WE ARE TO BLAME! I didn't hear any Iraqi's calling for the US to save them from Saddam Hussein. The Iraqi's weren't dancing in the streets when Saddam Hussein and his sons were executed (only some of the Sunni's b/c of impending power). Then I heard the argument, women are being treated as second class citizens. However, you fail to enlighten me on how some Iraqi women were professionals (attorneys, teachers) before this invasion and have had to flee their land because of the increased violence. So, how did you make it safer for women? Americans blatant disrespect for other nations will be the detriment of your own nation. Yet, we wonder why the rest of the world has a condescending view of Americans now!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:03 PM on 04/08/2008

"It's not George Bush's military, but the country's as a whole." This should come as a shock to the CIC who has used it in much the same fashion as any 18th-century, 10-year-old future despot played with his little tin soldiers in his palace bedroom.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:57 PM on 04/08/2008

The national draft should be put back on the table. I registered when I was called to do so, and I did so because I viewed it as a civic duty. If there is no consequence to the average citizen, then our democracy suffers. The all volunteer army is not inherently bad, but it insulates the American people from the immediacy of their vote. It must stop with no loopholes. The conservatives should be forced to put their genetic pool where their mouths are.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:48 PM on 04/08/2008

I watched most of the hearings today and it is clear that neither Petraeus or Crocker have a clue....this is as they define it an unending war. The Iraqis will do nothing to help themselves while we are still there. Apparently nothing was learned from Vietnam. It will end when this war has completely destroyed the U.S. Army and National Guard. Maybe that is not a bad thing...it will be hard to start wars without them.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:32 PM on 04/08/2008

"Why are we putting our sons and daughters lives at risk?" That's a mighty broad editorial "we" there. Less than 1% of the US population bears the burden of service in Iraq; 99% or "our" sons and daughters are at no risk what-so-ever. And 1% of the US population reaps the benefits from the record windfall profits this war has brought the military-industrial-energy-entertainment complex.

But the 1% paying the cost aren't the 1% profiting.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 07:16 PM on 04/08/2008




I was speaking figuratively. But maybe thats the problem, if they're not your kid, its not your problem.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 08:33 PM on 04/08/2008

And yet, Senator McCain's child _has_ served there, and another one is likely to do so soon. It makes his pro-war stance all the more baffling.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 09:08 PM on 04/08/2008

Nah. Military mentality.

Perhaps it's time we stop honoring the military mentality. It keeps getting us into wars and staying in them long after they're fruitless (if they are ever fruitful in the first place).

What's baffling is Bush's pro-war stance. He certainly doesn't suffer from the military mentality. His children didn't join up.

And Cheney's.

And all the other chicken hawk's.

Except the war keeps Bush as a war president with extraordinary powers. And the money rolling in.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 01:47 AM on 04/09/2008




Why are we putting our sons and daughters lives at risk? For what?

Securing a nation filled with tribal warring factions who harbor vendettas for perpetuity, who like a cobra simply plays dead when manhandled as the Iraqi's are doing now with us, but will simply rise again to strike their enemies once we have loosened our grasp on their country.

For what? They don't think of each other as equal. Maybe instead of investing all these military minds, and armaments, and soldiers into this abyss, you do what you won't do in this country, Mr. Bush. Invest in education. Teach Iraqi's the meaning of democracy, rather than pounding the equality of man tenets into their skulls with mortar rounds. All they've seen so far is an American superiority complex, thus their defensiveness, thus their siding with Al Sadr against our puppet Maliki.

It's pointless. Providing security has no end goal. The region will always need security, and the people of Iraq must be willing to stand up and provide it themselves. Of course having been subjugated for the last forty years, they have a natural mistrust of centralized government and power, and for good reason.

This isn't a war. Stop calling it a war, liars. This is a police action, and most of you are getting kickbacks.

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 06:07 PM on 04/08/2008

it ends the same way it is started... BY MAKING IT SO!!! except this time... the lies told to end it will at least save lives instead of taking them.

y'know... them ivy league schools that a vast majority of these "leaders" come from... they sure don't teach common sense now, DO THEY???

or maybe that's the whole idea. they got theirs so fuck everyone else.

and they call themselves christians... LMMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!

HYPOCRITES!!!!

favoriteFavorite Flag as abusive Posted 04:43 PM on 04/08/2008
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