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Greg Palmer

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We Need a Serious Gun Control Conversation

Posted: 08/15/2012 11:17 am

Can we have a conversation about guns now?

We've had two mass shootings in the space of less than two months. Eighteen people are dead, scores more are injured, and those are just the shootings that made it to the front page. Those aren't average days in America, but they might as well be. On any given day, 85 people die from gun violence. Another 182 are injured.

Do we get used to it? Do we become numb and resign ourselves to the fact that this is the new normal? As hard as I try to resist, I'm no longer surprised when a news alert starts with a body count and the words "many more injured." That's a tough reality to face, and not one we should accept in America.

Tougher still is listening to politicians from both sides of the aisle tell us that their "hearts go out" to the families of shooting victims, and that they're "in our prayers." Because prayers don't bring back the innocent people in Colorado, or the Sikhs who gathered together to worship and build community, or the scores of police officers and other innocent bystanders lost to gun violence. Our hearts and our prayers don't prevent the tragedies that took them from us, so they don't matter.

What matters is that we've let this happen. We've let our very American love of rights and liberties create a society that's far more dangerous than it should be. We're ignoring the practical reality that guns are causing our society harm, and instead we're giving powerful weapons to the sick and the hateful. I don't think that's what the founders had in mind.

For those of us who believe in gun control, we're told that it's antithetical to the founding principles of our country. That the lives of the 31,347 people killed by firearms in 2009 are somehow less valuable than the right to walk around with automatic weapons. That the only way to protect the Second Amendment is to let the mentally unstable and the violent purchase weapons whose only purpose is to kill others. Because that's their right. And your right. And my right. End of story.

But that's not the end of the story, is it? It's not the society we want to live in, and ignores the fact that our founders gave us a principle far more important than anything in the Bill of Rights. In fact, it's more than a principle. They handed us a mandate to maintain and extend our self-governed society. Of the people, by the people, for the people. That doesn't always mean majority rules -- in fact, rights are often developed and protected by a vocal minority.

In this case, the vocal minority is holding the rest of us hostage. They've scared us into submission. Politicians are afraid to speak out for gun control, worried about the wrath of powerful lobbying groups representing gun owners. Even the mildest restrictions on things like assault weapons, "cop killer" ammunition, and high-capacity magazines are met with vehement resistance in our state houses and Congress.

I don't have answers, but I'm tired of our public debate around guns to be so defeatedly deferential to gun owners. We need to open up the floor and hear from everyone, not just the powerful lobbying groups whose job it is to keep the guns firing. So speak up, gun control advocates. We need you.

 
 
 

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Can we have a conversation about guns now? We've had two mass shootings in the space of less than two months. Eighteen people are dead, scores more are injured, and those are just the shootings that...
Can we have a conversation about guns now? We've had two mass shootings in the space of less than two months. Eighteen people are dead, scores more are injured, and those are just the shootings that...
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
sandhillsrider
tail lights and dust trails
09:02 PM on 08/22/2012
Greg Palmer, by printing misinformation only hurts your cause. You just can't make up lies and not expect to get called out on them. Let me be a little kinder. You "misspoke" The other commentors have given the actual wrong statements you wrote so I am not going to repeat them. What you overlook is the fact that there are millions of law abiding gun owners that you never see a criminal act from.
05:20 PM on 08/21/2012
Part 1

To begin with I'm not a gun owner, I'm a constitutionalists!

Quote : "the right to walk around with automatic weapons"

I don't know where you live but I'm unaware of any place in the U.S. where it's okay to walk around with automatic weapons. Please advise me of these locations.

Quote :"That doesn't always mean majority rules."

I can't help but to expect in a democracy the majority does rule. Your comment is nothing I have ever heard in a government class.

Quote :"We've let our very American love of rights and liberties create a society that's far more dangerous than it should be"
05:19 PM on 08/21/2012
Part 2

Quote :"Our very American love of rights and liberties"

What kind of remark is that?

Quote :"Politicians are afraid to speak out for gun control, worried about the wrath of powerful lobbying groups representing gun owners."

Would these be the same politicians that are afraid of Wall St so they continue to let them screw the citizens out of wealth and equity?

Quote :"Even the mildest restrictions on things like assault weapons, "cop killer" ammunition, and high-capacity magazines are met with vehement resistance in our state houses and Congress."

Where in The U.S. do you live? Even California your argument is bullshit!

It is every American is responsible for homeland security. The Army is not to be a standing Army. It is to be disbanded within 18 months of the end of the conflict that brought it together. The Army was to be pulled from State Militias' But we love war and we are never out of a conflict. To the point that people like you has come to believe militias are some how unamerican and everyone of them wants to overthrow the government when in fact there purpose is to protect the U.S. from within.

As I said in my last posting , I did what I could so you could enjoy your civil right's to marry another man!
You have your pistol, Don't attempt to negatively impact the gun owners to have their pistol'
Like you they have rights also.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
RDWidner
A Libertarian by nature. A free man by act of God.
11:17 AM on 08/21/2012
There are numerous problems with the authors contentions. It is illegal for the mentally ill to purchase or posses a fireram. Cop killer bullets are also illegal. Up until recently high capacity magazines were also illegal. None of these "common sense" gun control regulations had any effect on the number of people killed. Furthermore why would the author argue points that are already illegal unless he wants to distort the conversation.

Ladies and gentlemen we do not have a gun problem in the United States. We have a mental health problem. Until you deal with the root of the problem instead of the tool being used you will never solve that.
11:36 PM on 08/20/2012
What we need is a serious conversation about the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We need to specifically rewrite the 14th amendment to void the part about corporations having the same rights as Humans when the rights of Humans are constantly being trampled on. I did all I could to see to it that LBGT's had the same rights to happiness and marriage (California's Prop 8) as the Blacks and the Native American Indians before them. If Indians were not allowed to marry Whites I would either have different set of parents or maybe never born, depending on how our maker decides those things. If all the guns were collected from law abiding citizens then only our government and criminals (which is pretty much the same) would have guns and that in it's self would violate the part about citizens being the armed militias that protect the Homeland. Confiscating guns didn't work in Nazi Germany nor in France under Mussolini, and it wont work here.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LouGots
09:39 AM on 08/21/2012
France? Mussolini?

Maybe you want to check that out.
mrman4954
question everything
02:41 PM on 08/21/2012
very well said . thank you
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Able Witness
09:43 PM on 08/20/2012
When Marcos was in power in the Philippines, it was the death penalty for those importing or manufacturing firearms for non-governmental agencies. Prices went up, of course; so entire villages became firearms manufacturing centers. The technology for mass-production of revolvers began in the 1840s. The technology for mass-production of semi-autos began in the 1890s. All machinists have lathes and drill presses. And Americans of European descent have the same crime rates as Europeans in Europe.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
J T K
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
07:46 AM on 08/20/2012
The right of the mentally unstable to buy a gun doesn't need to be protected but the right of everyone else to buy certain guns or to have magazines that are more than 10 rounds shouldn't
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02:55 AM on 08/20/2012
Greg Palmer, if you're reading this by some chance, then I suggest you read the book More Guns, Less Crime, by Dr John Lott. I believe it's 3rd edition now.

It's a fact proven by our own crime statistics (FBI, DOJ, police, etc) and those of other governments (like England and Australia) that when you add gun control, other violent crimes go up, and when you remove gun control, violent crimes go down. As a person who is not in favor of seeing murders (via other things than guns), robberies, rapes, assaults, home invasions, and so forth on the rise, I have to stand against your position. You mention these shooting sprees, but you neglect to consider that they happen in gun free zones. Virginia Tech, Texas A&M, Luby's, etc etc. All gun free. Except the criminals don't care about that.

LGBT rights? Try talking to the Pink Pistols about it sometime.

Frankly, you're twisting the facts to misrepresent things. That "gun violence" statistic includes defensive shootings. It includes gang vs gang crime. It includes drug dealers shooting drug dealers. It includes ALL shootings. For comparison, you're FAR more likely to be killed by your doctor during surgery than you are to be shot and killed. So please, read the book, get the real facts, and stop trying to make this country LESS safe.
12:37 PM on 08/19/2012
Greg, here's my conversation with you. I do not want to talk to anyone so incredibly misinformed. How about you mind your own damn business and let me have the guns I want and I will never be a threat or trouble to you since I am one of the millions upon millions of law-abiding citizens who cause no trouble.

You are the despot, the person who wants to take away my firearms. You are my enemy, since only my enemy wants to disarm me. Liberals preach tolerance, so why not be tolerant and just ignore my God-given and Constitutionally-enumerated right to firearms ownership.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
David Carson
03:30 PM on 08/18/2012
Mr PaLmer--it is obvious that you are not interested in a rational conversation--you are only interested in banning firearms
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
ScottM1A
11:57 AM on 08/18/2012
As another offered if you ever get to the Minneapolis area and want to go shooting so you have some small idea what you are talking about let me know. I'll make time to get you to a range and get some familiarity with what you want to ban. Then we can have a conversation about why gun control is misguided at best and lethal to minorities on average.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
swatcapt
03:38 PM on 08/19/2012
Love the M1A one of my favorite rifles. I have also be lucky enough to have had to OC had the opportunity to fire a full auto M14 my dream firearm.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
kwco
In God we trust, everyone else pays cash
01:33 AM on 08/18/2012
85 people die from gun violence every day? Rubbish. In 2010 (the most recent year for which I could find numbers) there were 14,748 murders in the United States. Being generous and assuming all of them were committed with firearms (though only two thirds actually were), that works out to about 40 people per day. In a country of 308 million people that means my odds of being murdered on any given day in 2010 were about 7.5 million to one. For all of 2010 it was 20,884 to one. By way of comparison 32,788 people were killed in motor vehicle crashes that same year, yet something tells me we wont be trying to ban cars.

The 85 a day number is pure bunk - unless the author is trying to fudge his numbers by including accidents and suicides. Tragic as these events are, they do not qualify as acts of violence which are generally committed deliberately by one person against another with some kind of malicious intent.
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mackbolan
Libertas inaestimabilis res est
12:45 AM on 08/18/2012
lasagne
guns
beer
tobacco

my kind of lgbt....
11:16 PM on 08/17/2012
I can"t believe you wrote this sentence " We're ignoring the practical reality that guns are causing our society harm, ". That is like saying cars are killing people, both are nothing more than mechanical objects, they cant do anything on their own. It is the crazy person using it that is at fault. Use common sense and put the blame where it belongs, on the person, not an object that can do nothing on it's own.
11:12 PM on 08/17/2012
I have a serious problem with someone who thinks our love for rights and liberty create a dangerous society. And there are no automatic weapons available to general public. Your insistence on spreading that lie is why you will never gain ground or respect in your cause. Without truth on your side you can't convince honest people to support you. And no we shouldn't accept what these evil and crazy people do. We need to demand that the 21 states that still refuse to report the mentally ill into the national database so they cannot legally purchase guns and we need to stop pretending a sign that says no guns allowed doesn't attract criminals and start focusing on the social and economic situations that promote violence.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Tim Woodard
string free and lovin' it
02:06 PM on 08/18/2012
F&F Great post!