Please, No Obama/Clinton Nightmare

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Posted May 12, 2008 | 07:20 PM (EST)



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Now that it is apparent to all, except perhaps Hillary Clinton and some of her die-hard supporters, that Barack Obama will be the Democratic presidential nominee, the drumbeat for a "dream" ticket [Obama/Clinton] is starting. But before this goes too far, we need to ask, whose "dream" are we talking about? Our Republican opponent's dream or ours?

John McCain is in deep trouble, and not just because of the legacy of George Bush. He is in trouble with much of the Republican base, particularly the religious Right, who never have trusted him. It is no accident that turnout in nearly all Republican primaries has been low, that McCain's fundraising has been dismal and that in the North Carolina and Indiana primaries, nearly 25% of Republican voters voted against him, despite the fact that he clearly will be the Republican nominee.

While McCain was the strongest in a weak field of Republican candidates, his candidacy clearly is not galvanizing conservatives. There is only one candidate who can do that: Hillary Clinton. To the conservative base of the Republican Party, she is the Democratic demon and the candidate the Republicans' want to face. She is Rush Limbaugh's candidate of choice. She is the candidate who the Right would use to raise money and turn out volunteers. She is the only potential Democratic VP who would build Republican enthusiasm and inspire the grassroots Republican campaign.

She also is the candidate who consistently measures the highest "unfavorable" ratings of anyone who ever has run for the presidency. In an ABC News poll, Clinton polls 54 percent unfavorable; perhaps even worse, 58 percent of voters say she is not honest and trustworthy. Both Clintons stand out for the amount of voter antipathy they attract: Thirty-nine percent of voters have a "strongly unfavorable" opinion of Hillary Clinton; only 22 percent have a "strongly favorable" view. Thirty-four percent are strongly negative on Bill Clinton and 51 percent have an "unfavorable" opinion of him. And Hillary's low-road campaign has had an impact: 41 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters describe the tone of the Democratic campaign as "mostly negative," and by nearly a 4 to 1 margin, 52 percent to 14 percent, blame Clinton. Is taking baggage like this into the general election anyone's "dream" but a Republican's?

Worse than Hillary's high unfavorables, a Obama/Clinton ticket would create a continuing crossfire -- not between McCain and Obama, but between Obama and Clinton. Every one of Clinton's interactions with the media would feature questions like, "Do you still think Barack Obama lacks experience to be Commander-in-Chief?" "Do you still think Obama is an elitist?" "That he doesn't understand the problems of the white working class?" "Do you still think his past association with Reverend Wright is very troublesome?" Obama would be asked, "During the primary campaign, your VP said your healthcare plan sucked? Was she right? Does it suck?" "Do you want to obliterate Iran, too, like your vice-president?" And, when the press wasn't asking these questions, John McCain would ask them. Or, maybe we all could be reminded of Bill's talk of a Clinton v. McCain contest, where we would have a campaign of "two people who loved this country and were devoted to the interest of this country," unlike Obama. Even worse than this scenario, Barack Obama would be cast in the position of having to defend his own VP's past attacks on himself. By doing so, he would not simply look like a hypocrite, he would, in fact, be a hypocrite -- thus putting into jeopardy his coin of the realm, his honesty and integrity. The general campaign wouldn't be about Obama v. McCain, it would be Act Two of a very bad marriage, with Obama sacrificing his integrity trying to explain away his own VPs past attacks on him. If you think her snarky, negative primary campaign was a thing of the past, think again because the Republicans and the press would offer us deja vu all over again. Lost in this dialogue of the past would be Obama's opportunity to explain how he wants to take America into a more productive future.

Those who "dream" of an Obama/Clinton ticket also fail to recognize something significant: Hillary has been a lousy candidate. I used to think that Al Gore and John Kerry ran the worst campaigns for president ever, but Hillary's ineptitude set new records. Five months ago, Hillary had a 20+ point lead in Democratic polling, the greatest name recognition of any candidate, the most money, support from a popular former Democratic president who was actively campaigning for her, nostalgia for the Clinton era of "peace and prosperity," a ton of endorsements, the aura of "inevitability" -- and she squandered it all with an inexorable series of misjudgments, abetted by her, Bill's and her campaign's unrelenting arrogance. By contrast, Obama ran down and exposed the dinosaur for what it was not simply with a brilliantly executed campaign, but with a core understanding that voters were tired of the type of old-style politics and old-style campaigning Bill and Hillary so ably represent. Why should he now forge an alliance with one of the most ineffective old-style campaigns ever, not to mention take on the Big Dog [Bill] as his new pal -- in this case, an uncontrollable pal who would try to run not only Hillary's campaign, but Obama's, as well? This is my definition of a Living and Breathing Nightmare -- one with plenty of 3 am calls from Bill! Even worse than sharing a campaign with Bill and Hill, allying with the Clintons would undermine the very essence of the Obama message -- that real change is needed in Washington. It would be seen as completely inauthentic, the worst type of marriage of convenience. And unlike the shotgun marriage JFK made with LBJ, Hillary brings nothing to the table; unlike LBJ, she can't bring a swing state into the Democratic column. Obama could win New York with Daffy Duck as his VP.

Then there are the revelations to come. Does anyone think that a man with a documented 30-year history of philandering with a long list of bowling alley queens has magically stopped playing the field, or that the Republicans will not exploit this? Does anyone think the Republicans will not exploit Bill's fundraising associations with some of the questionable people who have given him millions for his library and foundation in favor of his deal-making with oil oligarchs, or exploit his 11th hour pardons of some pretty disreputable characters, including two convicted bomb-carrying members of the Weather Underground? How much more baggage can Hillary sustain?

There are, of course, many strong Vice-presidential candidates for Obama to choose from. In light of Clinton's and McCain's challenging Obama's national security credentials, a VP such as General Wesley Clark, Senator Jim Webb or Governor Bill Richardson would add substantial national security/foreign policy heft. General Clark is our last successful commanding general and a smart, attractive spokesperson. He comes from the Clinton camp, but is no hawk like Hillary; Clark understands not only the uses of military power, but also its limitations. He would fit well with the new direction in foreign policy we hope a President Obama would take the country, as well as add great credibility to new security initiatives. Jim Webb, a former Secretary of the Navy, has been perhaps the most out-spoken and effective critic of the War in Iraq and Bush/Cheney foreign policy belligerence. He won in Virginia, a swing state, against all odds and an incumbent Republican, and is a great campaigner. Governor Richardson has spent most of his adult life working in the foreign policy arena, he is a popular governor in a swing state and is a Hispanic to boot -- a near-perfect trifecta of qualifications. He also has an incisive sense-of-humor, which politics and political combat could use a bit more of. Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown is another VP possibility many have mentioned positively.

And, there are solid women VP candidates: Senator Claire McCaskill won her Senate seat in Missouri, a swing state in any Presidential election; she has a tough law and order background as a former Attorney General, and is smart and articulate. Kansas Governor Kathy Sibelious has proven to be an effective governor who works well with the opposition and knows how to win in a Republican state.

This short list certainly is missing many other potentially good candidates, but the point is simple: There is no dearth of qualified VP candidates for the Democrats and there is no reason to take on the baggage and negatives of the Clintons, let alone try to work closely and cooperatively with them for 4-8 years.

Hillary, Bill and surrogates like James Carville have graphically challenged Obama's toughness, even his "cojones." I recognize that Obama is a conciliator, but conciliation should not come at the cost of getting rolled by the Clintons. That first act of a Demcratic Presidential candidate would show strength to no one [including the Clintons] at a time when voters still need to be convinced that Obama not only is an inspiring leader, but a tough and strong leader, as well.

 
 

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"John McCain is in deep trouble, and not just because of the legacy of George Bush. "

Have you ever looked at a poll or listened to the news. McCain is either winning or is slightly below Obama and Clinton in the polls and the republicans haven't even begun to campaign. After reading that distorted statement in your post, I can't say you have any credibility with the rest of the numbers you throw around.

As for anyone wanting an Obama/Clinton ticket, I don't think anyone does. It would probably win, but it won't unite. As a Hillary supporter, I still wouldn't vote for Obama.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:47 PM on 05/15/2008

In generic polling, when asked whether voters want a Dem or Rep president, voters pick the Dem by 15-20 points. The match-ups of Obama and Clinton with McCain haven't shown this yet, because the two Democrats were engaged in such a nasty, counterproductive, dog fight. Nevertheless, the well-respected Rasmussen Daily Tracking Poll has had Obama ahead of McCain for the past six days. As soon as Clinton is out of the picture and the match-up clearly is Obama v. McCain, Obama will sprint to a significant lead. He will carry the lead right into November, indeed it will widen as the comparisons between Obama and McCain become obvious to all types of voters.

This is not going to be close. Obama will beat McCain by ten points, or more. You heard it here first.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:23 PM on 05/15/2008

I agree 100% no matter what the Hillary supporters say.

Their perspective is from a place that I cannot and will not fathom.

Obama campaigned from a elevated level that would only be lowered to mid-rise, if he took on a gutter altitude running mate, a place from which both Hillary and the Gop wallow.

Regards to 'Healing",... In my opinion, Her supporters should come to us, ask forgiveness for all the broken bones, and damage,¦Help to nurse us back to health, then take their place along side of us in support of Obama.

However to demand that we forgive them without apology and further to allow them to strap onto our stab wounded backs, a heavy load of damaged goods, this is the ultimate of gall.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:28 PM on 05/15/2008

Hey Frank,
Nobody wants the ticket and nobody will be begging for anything. Just so you know, Obama has been just as negative in his campaign. It's just under-reported, but I've heard about it.

In regards to healing, we'll be healed when McCain wins because of us.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:51 PM on 05/15/2008

If its been "under-reported" then just where did you hear about it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:58 PM on 05/15/2008

I heard about obama spending massive amounts of money in PA on negative ads on the news and not just one news organization. It just wasn't played in a loop over and over again like anything that Hillary said.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:12 PM on 05/15/2008

I think Obama should pick a former military guy for veep.

There's a lot more ammunition for republiCONS with Obama/Clinton '08 than with Obama/ex-military guy '08.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 05/15/2008

Not so fast.

The problem is that the Democratic Party is split, and that wound must be healed for the good of the party to ensure success in the general election. Anybody who reads HuffPo knows that opinions and emotions in support of as well as in opposition to both candidates are strong, acrimonious, and divisive. At first blush, the thought of a "Dream Ticket" is a contradiction: the nice guy change candidate allied with the mean spirited establishment candidate? The proverbial dog that don't hunt.

BUT, now that it is settled that BHO will be the nominee, it's time for the party to pull together. To her credit, HRC knows this and already is on record guaranteeing her full support for the "eventual nominee" - after the primaries are completed and one candidate receives a majority of delegates, elected plus super. If Carville knows who that will be, bet the store so does HRC.

BHO and HRC running together is not a "Dream Ticket", but it could be, in the words of George Stephanopoulis, a "Unity Ticket."

There are clearly disadvantages, but there are also advantages, not the least of which is a No. 2 who is an attack dog, and HRC is one of the best.

Bottom line: as a matter of courtesy, respect, and politics, HRC must be the first to receive an offer to accept VP. If she wants it, it should be hers. Weighing the plusses and minuses of this ticket, you come out positive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 05/15/2008

As a Hillary supporter, I can tell you, I still would not vote for Obama. That still puts an inexperienced person in to the White House.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:55 PM on 05/15/2008

If you were truly a Hilary supporter, then you would take her cue and support your party's nominee. Not doing so shows litte solidarity with or respect for her.

There are three choices: 1) vote for your party's nominee, 2) waste your vote with a protest write in; or 3) vote for McSame, which equals four more years of an insane war, a sick economy, a dysfunctional health care system, religious nuts in our schools, right wing judges, overturn of Roe v. Wade, etc. etc. etc.

Choice 1 is HRC's example.

Choice 2 is that of a child who didn't get his way and now is taking his marbles home.

Choice 3 is beneath contempt.

Do the right thing, eh?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:04 PM on 05/15/2008

The Democratic party's chances in November should not be sacrificed on the altar of the ego of Hillary Clinton and her most fervent supporters. We are Democrats first, and the loyalty has to be to the party's candidate and whichever choices they make. Period.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:07 PM on 05/15/2008

Agreed !

Obama campaigned from a elevated level that would only be lowered to mid-rise if he took on a gutter altitude running mate, a place from which both Hillary and the Gop dine.

Regards to 'Healing",... The rift their creation, thus their responsibility to mend, as are the broken bones from all the stones and garbage catapulted into our camp.

Which means they should come to us and ask forgiveness, and nurse our wounded.

However to demand that we forgive them without apology and further to allow them to pack onto our stab wounded backs, the heavy load of their dishonored leader for him to carry through our upcoming fight with McCain, is the ultimate of gall, and further underlines that their goal is to win their petty battle, even if the cost for us all, is the war.

Lastly, For those that would vote for McCain in spite, or because of pigmentation, would prove beyond all doubt that your vote, which hundreds of thousands of Americans have died for, which is key to saving lives and creating a better world, is wasted on you, and would be better given to one of the billions on earth who don"t have this sacred privilege.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:23 PM on 05/15/2008

I was sitting at my friendly poker game a couple of weeks ago when one of the boys predicted that Obama and Clinton would be on the same ticket. I immediately bet him that they would not. He was coming from the republican position of hoping that it would be the case. I was coming from the democratic position of hoping that it would be someone else, since I feel as the author does that this would create better turnout for republicans. I'm not sure what the boys would say if they knew I have been contributing my poker winnings to the Obama campaign for the last several months. Anyway, there's another $50 earmarked for the Obama campaign if he chooses someone besides HRC for VP.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 AM on 05/15/2008

Obama / Clinton is indeed a nightmare. The Republicans are pressing for this because they know it would destroy the Democrats chances to win in November. Everyone knows Hillary is intensely disliked why doesn't she realize it?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:21 AM on 05/15/2008

The Obama/Clinton ticket is not worth spending a single thought on. I am sure Senator Obama hasn't. Obama/Edwards make a good looking couple, but there are many other options.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:05 AM on 05/15/2008

Anybody but Clinton!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:57 AM on 05/15/2008

This post is logical, clear and articulate. In short, it will not penetrate the non-thinking zombies who believe in an Obama-Clinton ticket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:56 AM on 05/15/2008

My neighbor is a Republican (conservative) and he confided in my one day, to unite the Republican party would be to put Hillary as VP. He told me that they hate Hillary that much, that adding her to the ticket would unite them.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:19 PM on 05/14/2008

The way Hillary has run her campaign is a reflection of the type of president she would be.
Even if Obama looses in the general election he has greater coat-tails and the down ballot pay off will be greater than with Hillary as the nominee.
Democrats should be grateful that Obama is increasing the ranks of the democratic party, in a way that neither Bill nor Hillary have been able to do. Obama's coat-tails pulled in wins in Mississippi, Louisiana and Illinois.
Democrats must not forget that under the Clintons the party lost more elected seats at the local, county, state and federal levels than under any other president (democratic or republican) in the history of the democratic party.
Obama will not win the general election due to the electorial college but the political sacrifice of the presidency in the general election will be counterbalanced by the gain of down ballot wins, as a result of massive popular vote turn out for democrats.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:44 PM on 05/14/2008

Clinton is a great candidate. Her campaign until recently sucked. Obama sucks as a candidate. His campaign works wonders.

All of Clintons baggage is built in and people still vote for her. All of Obamas baggage is still being exposed.

Obama is weak on substantive issues. Clinton is weak on the orator thing.

Seems like the ticket to win. Unity ticket for the unity candidate.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:34 PM on 05/14/2008

If it takes this kind of tortured logic to make ones case, the case is not worth making. The premise that a candidate is great if her campaign sucks is laughable. Campaigning will be the easiest task a future president will have to do: all the staff is hand picked, there are no, or should be no differences in opinion, nobody is going to die as a result of ones decisions. Senator Clinton managed to pick a lousy team, couldn't identify her team's mistakes, did nothing to correct them and bet the house on her own perception of invincibility. Senator Obama has mastered any and all of these issues remarkably. So that makes him a poor candidate? Please. Are you telling your children at home how dumb they are when they bring home A+ grades? One would hope not. That many of Senator Clinton's past sins are known won't stop anyone from finding unknown ones, resurrecting the dead and stomping all over her. If you think otherwise, you are naive.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:14 AM on 05/15/2008

No. Picking Clinton would sell out everything Obama has run on. That is a "substantive issue." How can a candidate be weak and yet have a great campaign? You don't see the disconnect, huh?

I don't care what Dan Abrams says. Obama would betray his supporters who want a different DC and a different kind of politics by picking the most divisive candidate possible. No, a thousands times no.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:12 PM on 05/14/2008

I couldn't agree with you more.

If Hillary had run a hard campaign and came in a close second without using all the smarmy tactics that she employed, I would be all in favor of having her as VP despite her negatives. But then again, if she was capable of running such a campaign, she wouldn't have those negatives, would she?

As reality stands, Hillary can only be an anchor around Obama's neck in a VP slot.

If Obama wants to hand a fig leaf to Hillary, he can easily do so by offering her some other spot in his administration, but VP is absolutely out. No one as savvy as Obama can fail to see that.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:19 PM on 05/14/2008

I'll say this again: Obama is way too smart to pick Hillary as his VP. He can't spend four years watching his back and paying for a multitude of food tasters.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:18 PM on 05/14/2008

Arrogance. Or as you say, "unrelenting arrogance." A thousand years ago, when Obama was in the middle of his 11-state streak, Bill Clinton told an audience that they could have both candidates, and that they would be unstoppable. Vote in Hillary, he implied, and get Obama in the bargin. Win-win.

Obama responded: "I don't know how the person who's in second place, is offering the vice presidency to the person who's in first place... They're trying to hoodwink you... Don't let 'em do that. You have to choose in this election."

I'll bet Obama was appalled at the "unrelenting arrogance" of both Clintons. He isn't going to forget that moment, and neither should we.

Unfortunately, as a previous poster noted, it's the news media that stirs this "dream ticket" pot every few weeks. And they do it just to be provocative, to create drama and tension, to increase their ratings, and justify their sense of importance and their ridiculously inflated salaries.

Regarding Gen. Clark as vp: Haven't we shown the world enough of our mighty military footprint? Isn't it time to truly turn the page in D.C., where the military is under orders from the government and not setting policy? (Sen. Biden had to remind Gen. Patreaus of this recently). Obama's short-list is loaded with attractive candidates. Any of them, paired with Obama, will vividly present to the world a new face, one that will begin to mend our severely damaged world sentiment.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:14 PM on 05/14/2008

"Unfortunately, as a previous poster noted, it's the news media that stirs this "dream ticket" pot every few weeks. And they do it just to be provocative, to create drama and tension, to increase their ratings,"

Conventional wisdom says that you should wait until the convention is near before picking your VP candidate. However, because of the MSM's interest in promoting the nightmare ticket (as you pointed out) I think Obama needs to pick his running mate as soon as the primaries are over. The MSM will continue to push the nightmare ticket as long as the position is open. The longer they are allowed to do this, the greater the faux impetus will appear behind the idea. The longer that continues, the more it will look like a snub when he picks someone else, and the angrier Hillary's loyalists will be because of the perceived snub.

Obama needs to nip this in the bud and announce a running mate by the middle of June.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:56 AM on 05/15/2008

Thank you! You make great arguments against this nightmare ticket. I am so sick of this "dream ticket" being pushed. I wouldn't wish the Clintons on my worst enemy. We have such a great opportunity for the country and Hillary and Bill would just jeopardize that opportunity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:07 PM on 05/14/2008

A sound analysis. I hope the Obama campaign is listening. Jim Webb would be an excellent running mate without any of the baggage of someone like Wesley Clark.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 10:04 PM on 05/14/2008

Absolutely right, in every respect. Senator Clinton has a day job to go back to, and for the good of the country must become a vigorous supporter of Senator Obama's candidacy. She should not be on the ticket.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:59 PM on 05/14/2008

It would also be nice to shed a great handicap from 2004 and present a ticket with no one on it who voted for the war.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:18 PM on 05/14/2008

I think Wesley Clark's mindless and almost midevial fealty to the Clintons should rule him out. In fact, anyone who is still supporting Clinton after last weeks effort by the Clinton campaign to endorse the view that racism is okay should be excluded.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:15 PM on 05/14/2008

Right on! I would love to see an Obama/Richarson ticket, but can the country handle a black/hispanic ticket?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 09:14 PM on 05/14/2008

I am convinced. It would be a disaster. Out of an ample nation, choose one (to quote E. Dickinson). There must be somebody who is good.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:46 PM on 05/14/2008

Thank you.
Obama only needs to look at what a Clinton link did to Al Gore.
He should run as fast as he can from these 2.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:42 PM on 05/14/2008

Al Gore distanced himself from Bill Clinton. That was his mistake. Gore couldn't even win in his home state of Tennessee. I believe that if Gore had sent Clinton Florida, Arkansas, Tennessee, and a few other states, he would have won.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:08 AM on 05/15/2008

I would dread an Obama/Clinton ticket.
Hillary and Bill would interfere constantly and are definitely of the old order and not of change. They are part of the problem.
Every couple weeks the press stirs up this ridiculous 'dream ticket' and it makes people want to scream. There are far better choices for vp than Clinton.
If anything, the democratic party needs to cut loose the ties to the Clintons for good.