In case you haven't noticed, the "debate" about Afghanistan going on inside the White House (thanks for the transparency) has already been decided, and the answer is: we're staying. The remaining question being considered is: how many troops? The question not being considered, if leaks are any indication, is why?
If there's any consistency to the foreign-policy mistakes of America in the post-World War Two era, it's the saga of brilliant men deciding upon wars in countries they barely understand, countries whose history they ignore--at our peril. That was the story of Vietnam, of Iraq, and it's now being repeated. It's also the story of a policy becoming hostage to notions of our "credibility" as a world power, as if being trapped in a debilitating struggle with enemies who aren't leaving (and who know we are) is good for the ol' image.
But, and I'm anticipating two-thirds of your comments, I'm "just" a funny person. You bet. That's why I pay attention to the people who know what they're talking about on this issue, and here's one of them--Matthew Hoh, who had the guts Colin Powell wishes he'd had, who resigned his State Department job rather than continue to promote a failing, misguided, doomed policy. Read Hoh's online chat. He's not kidding.
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The Daily Beast article states:
This heroin bomb then does collateral damage back home. The returning soldiers brought home a heroin problem to Russian cities that grew exponentially during the past two decades. This past March, Russia’s anti-narcotics bureau announced that the country had become the planet’s “No. 1 heroin consumer.”
Today’s Taliban-fighting Americans were yesterday’s mujahideen-fighting Soviets. They saw how heroin helped disable a foreign fighting force more than 20 years ago. And that lesson isn’t lost on them.
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In Greek tradgedies, ego/hubris was the sin the Gods punished the most. Some estimates were that 15-20% of soldiers came back from Viet Nam addicted to China White. What are the drugs that Afgans grow and make: opium/heroin. We're going to invade a country where we're not wanted, prop up a corrupt regieme, kill a whole country of guerilla fighters and "win". Sound familiar? I guess we never learn.
Pride comes before a fall. Balance the equation.
Maybe these farmers want to grow poppies. Maybe they think it's their country and realize they have no allegience to a corrupt US puppet government (think Viet Nam). Maybe they've been growing them for generations and feel it's their right. Maybe they think it's really none of our business.
Ya, they can grow marigolds for the floral trade at say $1 a bushel when they could grow poppies at prices orders of magnitude higher which they've been doing for hundreds or thousands of years.
I
I see no reason for nations to act differently. Some will argue that our nation will lose respect if we admit that we have no right to be in Afghanistan, apologize for the suffering, death, and destruction we've caused, offer to make amends, and withdraw all of our troops. Some might see this as weakness and a disquieting formal admission that our troops died in vain. Well, they did die in vain and I can think of no valid reason why more lives should be sacrificed to save face and avoid admitting we were wrong. Redefining success as something less than defeating the Taliban is playing word games that fool no one. It's an arrogant and self-defeating strategy that is the essence of weakness and it provokes contempt and resentment toward us.
Although we have a general duty to rebuild what we have destroyed, we should allow the people in Afghanistan to decide what they want us to do. They might not want us to modernize their country, for example. Big box stores like Walmart, fast food restaurants, and showers that electrocute people may not be at the top of their wish list. We need to listen and stop deciding what's best for others.
This course of action also happens to be the best defense against terrorism.
The Daily Beast article states:
This heroin bomb then does collateral damage back home. The returning soldiers brought home a heroin problem to Russian cities that grew exponentially during the past two decades. This past March, Russia’s anti-narcotics bureau announced that the country had become the planet’s “No. 1 heroin consumer.”
Today’s Taliban-fighting Americans were yesterday’s mujahideen-fighting Soviets. They saw how heroin helped disable a foreign fighting force more than 20 years ago. And that lesson isn’t lost on them.
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In Greek tragedies, Ego/Hubris was the sin the gods punished the most. Remember the drug addicted soldiers that came back from Viet Nam? Estimates were 15-20% addicted to China White. What are the drugs that Afganistan produces: opium/heroin/morphine.
Pride comes before the fall. Balance the equation.
Policy of Afghanistan and Pakistan is not what is not what issue right.
Fact #1: we have a small amount of troops there that are ounder maned and out numbered.
Fact#2. Because of this....they are 10x -100+ times more likely to get badly hurt or killed
Fact #3. this is because Obama has FAILED to make A decision that is: Black & White for over two months....for "pure political" reasons.
He has Two Choices Only:
#1. Send 40,000+ troops and equipment today.
#2. Pull out ALL out troops now.
How hard is this? Its NOT over 2 months hard.
These kids are getting killed Unnecessary...because our President's has put Political agenda...above the well being of our men and women in Afghanistan
This is WRONG on any level...weather you are on the: left,, middle, right... in your views
These Troops have need "backup for months...and have died, because President Obama "does not GET".... The Commander & Chief of his job.
He is to busy being a: 24/7/365 "SERIAL CAMPAIGNER"
It is an Obsession with him...its all his being doing the last 5 years+
http://iraqsinconvenienttruth.com/2009/10/28/obama-plays-golf-while-usa-troops-have-no-backup/
"The Real Truth Is Always The Real Truth" ~~ Even if you choose to not believe it.
Peace,
Dan
Bin Ladin invested in the specific (and relatively inexpensive) training of 20 al quaeda operatives, for the purpose of terrorizing the US and destroying it's financial base. And, as Matthew Hoh pointed out, did the most important phase of the training on US soil.
Bin Ladin's investment has paid off handsomely. We have a still-terrorized nation that argues for more pointless occupations, further straining our weak economy, and thousands of both dead and mained American and allied soldiers.
It's time to admit who really is winning this "war on terrorism," and quit pretending there is a military solution. It is, and always has been, a matter for an international criminal task force.
Everyday we waste spending more of our much needed capital and blood in these senseless occupations, the more Bin Ladin's investment in our knee-jerk and ignorant reaction to his planning, compounds in his favor.
These is no credibility to be won in continuing a failed policy expecting a different result. To continue is to not only lose credibility, but also to continue bleeding a currently very enemic nation. A medieval doctor could do no worse.
Hoh is absolutely correct about our previous misguided policy but it is foolish to throw out the baby with the bath water. We currently have a strategy for success which only recently the president has decided to ponder on (many people forget he agreed full heartedly in months prior).
With a successful strategy, the Taliban and its aligned organizations will no longer be a threat and the poppy production will be greatly diminished. As for Afghanistan the society will likely revert into the federal society that it was before the communist takeover (which was a successful for of government btw) unless Karzai continues his rule which is another turning point for Afghanistan.
"Never mind that the Taliban seeks to invade Afghanistan and establish a totalitarian society but they harbor many smaller groups involved in transnational terror. Furthermore is that we see a massive rise in poppy crops which left unchecked would not only result in the funneling of billions of dollars to people who wish to wage war on the West but create massive problems in our own society with heroin addiction. I'm sure everyone here can agree that heroin is a scary and dangerous drug."
The Taliban is not an outside force "seek[ing] to invade Afghanistan. Most of the Taliban is made up of Pashtuns, the majority ethnic group in Afghanistan.
The Taliban does not "harbor many smaller groups involved in transnational terror." There are many insurgent groups from various villages and valleys throughout southern Afghanistan who fight alongside the Taliban but do not consider themselves to be part of the Taliban. Pakistan has its own Taliban which is only loosely affiliated with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Both groups fight the governments in their respective countries. They are not involved in "transnational terror." There are less than 100 Al Qaida members in Afghanistan and no terrorist training camps.
Karzai's brother is a CIA asset and important player in the heroin trade, as is the CIA. If our cities become inundated in heroin, which is unlikely, the CIA will have played a larger role in making that happen than the Taliban.
It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion.
All U.S. troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan by Election Day 2012... or Obama loses my vote.
Anybody with me?
People seem to forget in this most recent debate that Afghan people really did celebrate when the Taliban evacuated. Do you imagine the Afghans would rather live under the Taliban again? That's not exactly a "reality-based" expectation.
Which begs the ultimate question: why are we still there? Why are we staying there? The obvious answer is that, in the absence of another effective counterforce, the Taliban will certainly retake Afganistan.
Which raises Hoh's interview. He says Al Qaeda will not come back into Afghanistan because they 'will not' associate themselves with nation-states anymore. That's interesting - according to the latest they govern from Quetta, part of the nation of Pakistan. If Hoh means they will operate only from ungovernable places such the Pakistani FATA, well, how many of those do you think there are in the world? Most of them are in AfPak, actually. Of course there's Somalia and Yemen, too, but does anyone believe if we leave Afghanistan the gloriously victorious Taliban will evict the also-gloriously-victorious al Qaeda from South-Central Asia?
That's $100 Billion a year forever in extra taxes. Why would we even consider that as an option?
Our best and brightest politicians cannot figure out a way to fight unconventional forces. The military could but an innocent could be hurt in the process.
Our forces seem to make the local people madder rather than happy with the peace we promise them.
We wonder why so many of these people straddle the fence. Is it that much of a stretch to see the position a person puts himself in if he aligns himself with a country that maybe gone tomorrow but his enemies will certainly be around. Why it takes so long for their police and armies to get up to speed. We forget even the mighty U.S. cannot stop graft and stop such things as drugs flowing into the U.S.
We buy supplies, info, build whatever and leave lots of money. Will this money go to the avg citizen or to leaders who fatten their bank accounts and buy weapons to fight us and oppress their own people
We should stay out of any unconventional war unless we understand its history, its people and their traditions. If we cannot fight effectively than we can not accomplish anything.
If certain people must die for peace to happen we should use black ops teams with the authority to kill on the spot.
I ask you this. Did we try to win Vietnam?. Did we give every effort.
Or was our congress along with our Presient playing politics.?