Dealing with Terrorism, Without War

Like Britain, Germany and Italy before it, Spain has dealt with its terrorism problem, at least for now, without resorting to war. Strangely, the country was able to round up, prosecute, try and convict the people behind the Madrid train bombing, the worst terrorist attack since 9/11, by using its--shock, horror--criminal justice system. Next thing you know, the Spaniards will be putting seafood in their rice.

Comments

[mbaty]

I've had disagreements with people before, and I've never used war. I've been ok. I've never even had to shoot someone. Go figure. Then again, I don't make my money by promoting wars or building death machines, if I did, I'd probably be singing a different tune (but I'd still have plausible deniability and/or immunity, you know, just in case.)
Now I'm going to go bathe in some black water (it's full of liquid gold.)

[EnderCraig]

The next time you're on an elevator think about this- the guy behind you could stab you in the back with a knife. Probly won't. Don't have too many enemies. Is their something you should be doing to prevent such a thing? Yes there is. But not wear armor or collect all the world's knives.

That uncertainty is the cost of living in a free society. We are vulnerable. It is the price we pay.

Certainly the best way to not be murdered is to avoid making enemies. Perhaps treating people fairly and with respect is a reasonable precaution. Murders still occur. It sucks, its frustrating, but lets get a grip! It doesn't happen so often that we need to cancel democracy or give away our privacy and freedom. For to do so would betray the principals on which our country was built.

Betraying our principals is exactly what we are doing. We have been stabbed. It hurt a lot. But the pain has turned us into beasts who are willing to carve up our enemies and their families with such spite and force that we may not stop till every one who ever laid eyes on our enemy feels our pain. A nation must be above vengeance.

That is why it is important to apply standards set by our criminal justice system. To prevent wild retaliations. WE don't stab people. We prosecute people because we are above lynchings. We value the truth, and we assign blame and punishment after debate and great thought. No crime, however terrible can justify the government lashing out, or reeling in liberties.

We donate our freedoms to the terrorists like additional self inflicted wounds. Our trust will remain damaged long after the flesh wound has healed. But its really up to us how strong we emerge. Right now we are weaker than ever, and as well as having a few weak enemies we now have no friends. Instead of sympathy for being attacked we are viewed as perhaps having deserved it, for few questioned the honor in our ethics and freedom before, but now?

[redstateblue]

I couldn't agree more. We've elevated a group of religious fanatics to a status they don't merit. Worse, our government has committed acts in our name that have brought shame to us and will haunt our children.

[GoreSavingPlanetForJesus]

I think it's laughable to believe these terrorists can be dealt with in the justice system. Their vow is to kill every non-muslim.

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush." (Sura 9:5)

8:59-60 "Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war"

"To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause" (Al Bukhari vol. 1:25)

4:102 "For the Unbelievers, Allah has prepared a humiliating punishment."

"War is prescribed to you: but from this ye are averse." (Sura 2:212).

If there really are approx. 50,000 terrorists gathered in the middle east, the courts will become overwhelmed.

[LindaJay]

Hmmm. I can find similar quotes in the Old Testament. Does that mean that Christians have vowed to kill every non-Christian?

[Lusmu]

And how many more have we created by invading their countries? How many have we arrested and brought to justice?

The ones in homeland can easily be dealt by the criminal justice system. Besides, I thought our whole system was based on innocent until proven guilty. How do you do that in a battlefield? Or is it enough to be muslim?

Your worldview seems very black and white. Sorry, the world has more shades of gray in between.

[GoreSavingPlanetForJesus]

I see no shade of gray when Muslims receive news of the Twin Towers falling and they dance in the streets as innocent Americans die (remember the CNN footage).

I see no shade of gray watching the footage of Nick Berg's head being sliced off while "death to America" is chanted.

I see no shades of gray when Muslim terrorists hang 4 US workers from a bridge and light them on fire (this should have been played on CNN more often).

How many of these "shades of gray" incidents would you like us to sit and watch?..

...maybe until a school of American kindengarden kids get there heads blown off. Will that shade of gray finally convince you?

How about a shade of gray where one of YOUR family members decides to jump instead of burn alive?

[villastrangiato]

Oh come on Harry,

What are we gonna do with all these smart bombs and high tech planes? We can't give them to local law enforcement - they don't have anyplace to park the stuff....And what would we then do with Israel's security model? Without that, how would we justify rounding up, disarming, disenfranchising, imprisoning, and systematically starving to death millions of people who live in oil rich Middle East nations?I tell you, it just can't be done - it undermines our new Preemptive Strike Doctrine and the importance of the Patriot Act......if we do this, it will be like cutting and running.....

[MarkFinelli]

This is literally the dumbest thing I have ever read.

All of these countries are experiencing the benefits of the US being in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I remain, Semper Fidelis,

Mark Finelli

Sole WTC 9.11 Survivor to Enlist in the Marines and Fight in Iraq
HARRY ASKS; You mean the benefits the Germans and Italians got from fighting the terrorists the non-war way in the 1970s and 1980s, long before the US was in Iraq or Afghanistan? Good analysis.

[Lusmu]

So, could you elaborate a bit more on your logic here? European countries have been able to deal with their domestic terrorists because the US is in Afghanistan and Iraq?

That is one of the most arrogant and uninformed comments I've ever heard.

[kingcityguru]

I look at the entire matter from another perspective: if the 9/11 terrorists had the means to kill 3 million people (a nuclear weapon) instead of 3,000 would they have done so. The answer, most would concede, is yes. If so, you can't take a law enforcement approach that might let some of these type of individuals slip through the cracks or only be found out "after the fact." Seems to me, you take out the ability for these groups to be able to kill 3 million people by getting rid of governments that are in a position and have an inclination to give these groups the means to kill 3 million. Hence, a war on Iraq, Iran, or whomever.
It is a complicated world without easy and fast answers, I am afraid.
HARRY ASKS: So, using your logic, why didn't we take out Pakistan, a country which indubitably has nukes and which indubitably has supported the taliban and AQ, and which indubitably has proliferated its nukes to Libya and North Korea and Iran? Why did we instead embark on the Iraq project, with the results we now all know?

[Lusmu]

The possibility of a terrorist group getting hold of a big nuclear weapon is extremely remote and even if they did get their mitts on one, what do you think would happen if they tried to or succeeded in detonating one?

It would unite the world in an effort to wipe them out. No country, not even Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia or China can afford to have a nuclear armed terrorist group on the loose.

And you also forget, that any nation willing to afford help to one of these groups risks becoming the target of all the nations of the world. It would be suicidal for the whole nation, and all the scaremongering notwithstanding, I don't believe even North Korea is that crazy.

[MagisterLudi]

I would like to commend Mr. Shearer for taking the time to read and engage with the posters.

This is in market contrast to some bloggers who just throw things at the wall to see what sticks.

Much appreciated....grazie

[CaseyBabes]

Yes, sarcasm by 'arry works every time. We all know, of course, that the terrorists achieved their goal in Spain as the voters caved in and voted their ruling government out. And, of course, mountains of evidence was left behind for police to make the quick grab....though as I understand, the mastermind of the train attacks got off 'innocent.' Anyway, Spain is a low-level target, like Australia (remember, via Bali) so their time will come. Just like the USA when the appeasers come into power like last time when terrorism was treated as a "police matter." Good luck with that.

[Annette]

You mean when they actually caught the people who bombed the WTC, tried them and put them in jail. No it didn't permanently solve the problem but neither has Bush's limp efforts. In fact he has helped them. The arab and muslim world is becoming very distrustful of us and many outright hate us. We have not caught Hardly any one in Al Quaeda, I distrust the frequent trumpeting of killing #3, we have done it so frequently and then has to quietly say "well maybe not". Before you say who cares about the muslim world, they outnumber us, have nuclear weapons, and we are doing our best to kill them till they love us. Remember, no empire lasts forever. We are heavily in debt to the Chinese, we no longer have a manufacturing base, we have out sourced our corporations to the point where they are sending us poisonous food and killer toys while the watchdog agency under Bush is being flown around and wined and dined by the people she is supposed to be watching. I forsee one of the shorter lived empires.

[NATIONALSECURITY4US]

Now if these people from the intel. community would only get off their asses - away from the luxury of their air-conditioned rooms while they're collecting time & a half or double time
& a half while pounding down donuts & coming up
with figments of their ownimagination type of scenarios & hit the streets hunting these people down = AMERICA MAY BECOME A SAFER PLACE.

However that IS NOT THE GAME PLAN as I alluded
2 earlier in that statement made recently by Cheneys' top aide =

"WE ARE 1 BOMB AWAY FROM OUR GOALS"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/04/addington/index.html?source=newsletter

By making a statement like that publicly should
have every AMERICAN WONDERING & WORRYING - just
what it is he meant by this statement or when will this take place next...

Members of Congress / MEDIA should be grilling this guy as 2 any possible ill-conceived notion
or act that may be in the pipeline on the verge
of being brought into fruition = IMMEDIATELY...

All of the pieces to the puzzle are there & the
writing is on the wall 4 people 2 decipher what
it is that he really meant by this statement...

To me that is the icing on the cake as to what
the real object alterior motive is & whether or
not the goal or desire is to really find these people b-4 the strike again or 2 allow it so the goals will be finally reached & 4 policy 2 be enacted = 2 destroy / control AMERICA & THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...

This is very serious business we are talking about here & EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN HAS 2 BE EXTRA - EXTRA VIGILANT SO THAT ANOTHER ATTACK DOES NOT HAPPEN HERE IN AMERICA - SO THAT THE RULE OF LAW & EVERYTHING ELSE PERTAINING 2 & ASSOCIATED WITH AMERICA JURISPRUDENCE IS NOT
THROWN OUT THE WINDOW - NEVER 2 BE RE-CLAIMED..

[NATIONALSECURITY4US]

CONTINUED

PROOF IS A STATEMENT RECENTLY MADE BY CHENEYS' TOP AIDE = "WE ARE 1 BOMB AWAY FROM OUR GOALS"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/04/addington/index.html?source=newsletter

Top middle/bottom right were captured together on 5/29/2004 at 6 PM...

After holding bottom right 4 like 30 months in U.S. custody he's suddenly dumped in Somalia
1/2007 & immediately targeted 4 death by U.S.
airstrikes from ships in the region then & in
6/2007 = it was reported both failed/missed..

Bottom right was CAPTURED IN AMERICA & flown 2 Pakistan 4 Pakistan 2 say that they found him 2
get out of paying his reward as well...

Plus Congress nor the American people can not
know that MOST WANTED SERIAL-KILLING TERRORISTS
WANTED GLOBALLY MADE IT INTO AMERICA UNDETECTED

Well CIA DIRECTOR GEORGE TENET PAYED THE PRICE 1 WEEK AFTER ALL OF THIS & WAS FIRED = WE'RE TOLD HE RESIGNED + WAS GIVEN THE MEDAL OF FREEDOM 2 ASSURE HIS SILENCE OVER ALL OF THIS..

FBI DIRECTOR MUELLER SHOULD'VE BEEN FIRED ALSO SINCE THIS WAS DOMESTIC & THESE PEOPLE GOT HERE
UNDER HIS WATCH OR WERE THEY ASSISTED HERE BY
ROGUE AGENTS...

BOTH HAD LAPTOPS LEADING 2 EVEN MORE CAPTURES GLOBALLY IN THE FALL OF 2004 = WHEN F.I.S.A.
APPLICATIONS SPIKED THRU THE ROOF AS REPORTED
BY DANA PRIEST A WHILE BACK...

I COULD GO ON & ON ABOUT THESE EVENTS - BUT YOU
ALL CAN READ ALL ABOUT IT AT:

http://360.yahoo.com/caspereraser1

ALL IT TAKES IS DETERMINED VIGILANCE -- EYES LIKE A EAGLE & THE HEART OF A PATRIOTIC WARRIOR
2 GO FIND THESE PEOPLE B-4 THEY COMMIT THE NEXT
ACT THAT WILL SUSPEND EVERYTHING YOU BELIEVE IN
- IN A JUST AMERICA...

THE CONSTITUTION / BILL OF RIGHTS / FREEDOMS /
MARTIAL LAW & ALL THE REST OF THE DIABOLICAL
SHIT THAT WILL HAPPEN 2 AMERICA UPON ITS' NEXT
ATTACK...

PLUS IT DOES NOT EVEN HAVE 2 HAPPEN IN AMERICA 4 BUSH 2 IMPLEMENT HIS ORDERS / DIRECTIVES...

[NATIONALSECURITY4US]

DO IT the way I DID IT - get any photos & go hunting like I did...

http://360.yahoo.com/caspereraser1

Press Conference held on 5/26/2004 & this was found by me on 12/4/2004...

http://www.fbi.gov/page2/may04/bolo052604.htm

The 3 in black/white were CAPTURED IN AMERICA
but covered-up by the shrub administration 4 various reasons like:

A = not wanting 2 pay the CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED/CONGRESSIONALLY APPROPRIATED TAX-PAYERS FUNDS 4 THE REWARD - 14TH AMENDMENT SECTION 4...

B = the intel. comm. like the alphabet soup agencies weren't involved in CAPTURING THEM 100% = JOE Q. PUBLIC WAS...

C = I've totally fucked-up someones' game-plan 2 suspend the constitution/bill of rights/2004
elections = plan "b" had 2 be enacted again = STEAL THE ELECTIONS AGAIN...

PROOF IS A STATEMENT RECENTLY MADE BY CHENEYS' TOP AIDE = "WE ARE 1 BOMB AWAY FROM OUR GOALS"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/09/04/addington/index.html?source=newsletter

Top middle/bottom right were captured together on 5/29/2004 at 6 PM...

After holding bottom right 4 like 30 months in U.S. custody he's suddenly dumped in Somalia
1/2007 & immediately targeted 4 death by U.S.
airstrikes from ships in the region then & in
6/2007 = it was reported both failed/missed..

Bottom right was CAPTURED IN AMERICA & flown 2 Pakistan 4 Pakistan 2 say that they found him 2
get out of paying his reward as well...

Plus Congress nor the American people can not
know that MOST WANTED SERIAL-KILLING TERRORISTS
WANTED GLOBALLY MADE IT INTO AMERICA UNDETECTED

Well CIA DIRECTOR GEORGE TENET PAYED THE PRICE 1 WEEK AFTER ALL OF THIS & WAS FIRED = WE'RE TOLD HE RESIGNED + WAS GIVEN THE MEDAL OF FREEDOM 2 ASSURE HIS SILENCE OVER ALL OF THIS..

FBI DIRECTOR MUELLER SHOULD'VE BEEN FIRED ALSO SINCE THIS WAS DOMESTIC & THESE PEOPLE GOT HERE
UNDER HIS WATCH OR WERE THEY ASSISTED HERE BY
ROGUE AGENTS...

[CaseyBabes]

& a 4 &
a
q

[Stevelagain]

I don't think Osama will be showing up in Spain anytime soon so that their justice system can imprison him for the train bombings....or did you just sorta forget about him?

And lets not even talk about how their justice system has found the mastermind of the bombings NOT GUILTY.

But I guess that sort of thing didn't work into the general outline of the conclusion you wanted to reach so you left a few of those little embarrassing facts out.

And lets not forget, Spain was with us in Iraq and was attacked in order to force it out of Iraq. It appeared to have an effect on the elections and national policy...the terrorists have won in spain, not lost.

[peterg76]

If you knew how to prove he *was* mastermind, or that bin Laden genuinely had a link to the Madrid train bombing, then you should have been in Spain testifying. A verdict that does not reinforce your prejudices is not a failure of criminal justice.

[mae692]

The Spanish governement is doing as good a job of 'finding' Osama as American is.

Maybe the 'mastermind' was NOT GUILTY. Isn't that how a trial is supposed to work? doesn't the prosecutor have an obligation to prove the case?

The Spanish government listened to its people, isn't that how democracy is supposed to work? I think the Spanish people won.

[FogBelter]

Harry, let's be straight here, the point for the Bush Administration is not to to WIN the "War on Terror", but to prolong it. The "War on Terror" has been nothing more than a cover for the Bush Administration to attack the US Constitution, and engage in acts of Imperialist Aggression in the Middle East for the purpose of occupying and colonializing Iraq and Afghanistan, in order to control these nation's oil resources and access points to Caspian Sea reserves.

In addition, the US Military has been in the Philippines, the forgotten Front in the "War on Terror", since January 2002 chasing down the 500 member strong Abu Sayyaf terrorist organization. The US Ambassador to the Philippines, Kenney has been asked repeatedly if the US is in the process of rebasing in Mindanao, which would project American Military presence into the rich South East Asian oil fields (is there a trend here?), and issues denials, but suspicions in the Philippines remain.

Nearly six years presence in the Philippines to deal with a rag tag band of bandits who has lost its leadership years ago, captured or killed, including 20 rubbed out in a shootout in a Manila prison, Easter week 2004? Come on.

And, Harry, has anyone been brought to Justice for the murder of over 3000 Americans on 9/11/2001? Bin Laden is still putting out his music videos every few months, but he hasn't faced any justice, as of yet ... odd considering he is the "War on Terror" Poster Boy. It's painfully obvious that Justice for these murdered Americans isn't a priority.

So, from my stand point, the "War on Terror" is a fraud, a cover for the Bush Administration's aggressive policies. This Administration wanted a reason for Imperialistic Aquisition and an extraConstitutional power grab, and the "War on Terror" gave it to them.

[CaseyBabes]

Heh heh, the USA is in fact prolonging, only the democrats are the culprits so they can run against it......like the last election when they were going to stop the war......NOT. Just check out the present dem debates as they all are running against "Bush's" war, ya know the one they voted for.
I keep looking around for the Imperialistic Acquisition and estraConstitutional power grab, but all I see is a bunch of SUVs parked in front of pretty nice homes, jobs everywhere, low interest rates, low taxes, gasoline prices suck, economy purring, and democrats inventing how bad things are. Guess Bush's power grab has worked, for Americans not thinking through their butts.

[indypete]

Hasn't worked too well for the 3000-odd dead American kids and the who-knows-how-many-thousand dead Iraquis. Not working too well for the millions of unemployed Americans who lost their jobs to illegal immigrants and outscourcing. Not working too well for those in lower paid gigs who are losing their life savings through forclosure on their houses and not able to put gas in their tanks to get to work and can't afford exorbitant health insurance premiums in case they get sick. Working great for arms dealers and their hired hands in guvmint (both sides of the aisle), oil companies and their hired hands in guvmint (both sides of the aisle), insurance companies and their hired hands in guvmint (both sides of the aisle)... of course, those are the only people that count so everything is rosy, eh?

[MagisterLudi]

Hmmm,, maybe we could've tasked NYPD to serve court summons to Osama in A-stant
And if he didn't show up, issue a warrant for his arrest.
Maybe even put a derag. in his Equifax credit file..
That would serve him right if he ever wanted to open a 7-11 in Dearborn, MI!

[mae692]

No, it's a better idea to spend billions of dollars and thousands of lives to get the same non-result.

[Lusmu]

You seem to forget, that the Spanish have many of the very terrorists in custody and the "Mastermind " is in an Italian jail. So, they have their "Osama" and accomplices under wraps. What about us?

Also, Spain, France, Great Britain, Germany, Italy and many other European countries have extensive knowledge in handling terrorist groups through the law enforcement route. You should give them a bit more credit.

[CaseyBabes]

Spain got bombed, France is on the edge with the largest unemployment rate among Muslims, GB got hit in London twice. Italy has the luck of the Irish so far. Anyway, all those Euro countries are active members of a large intelligence network providing preventive measures.

[davidly]

You seen this? We bought it, huh?

Iraqi Dam Seen In Danger of Deadly Collapse
By Amit R. Paley
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, October 30, 2007; A01

AT THE MOSUL DAM, Iraq -- The largest dam in Iraq is in serious danger of an imminent collapse that could unleash a trillion-gallon wave of water, possibly killing thousands of people and flooding two of the largest cities in the country, according to new assessments by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and other U.S. officials.

Even in a country gripped by daily bloodshed, the possibility of a catastrophic failure of the Mosul Dam has alarmed American officials, who have concluded that it could lead to as many as 500,000 civilian deaths by drowning Mosul under 65 feet of water and parts of Baghdad under 15 feet, said Abdulkhalik Thanoon Ayoub, the dam manager. "The Mosul dam is judged to have an unacceptable annual failure probability," in the dry wording of an Army Corps of Engineers draft report.

At the same time, a U.S. reconstruction project to help shore up the dam in northern Iraq has been marred by incompetence and mismanagement, according to Iraqi officials and a report by a U.S. oversight agency to be released Tuesday. The reconstruction project, worth at least $27 million, was not intended to be a permanent solution to the dam's deficiencies.

[DMSmith]

The Army Corps of Engineers...you mean the same group that built the failed levees in New Orleans, and then has re-built them insufficiently? Hmmm

[Moshe]

Hundreds of thousands of boots on the ground armies and big ticket weapons systems are great for making obscene cash windfalls for war profiteers, but as a tool in fighting terrorists, it's like killing flies with nuclear weapons. Not exactly cost effective and it does far more damage to you than it does to the targeted pest.

Using conventional troops and weapons to fight an enemy that is small in number and shadowy in nature is patently absurd. And in doing so we are going bankrupt and destroying the very fabric of our society, the Rule of Law.

Eventually, the U.S. will end up doing what rational nations do: They use solid, realiable intelligence (not the politically tainted variety we currently have), dedicated police work, and deal with even barbarians under the rule of law (otherwise you just become barbarians also).

You really blew it George, and the U.S. will be paying for your mistakes for the rest of our lives.

Given all they have "done" for us, it seems the least we could do for George and Dick is impeachment. But I would certainly be willing to chip in for some tar and feathers also. After all, it's an American tradition.

[SeriousBlack]

Well said!