"I'll Consider It Criminal"

The clock is ticking. Congress told the Army Corps of Engineers to give New Orleans what it thought it had, so-called Category 3 hurricane protection, and the Corps' deadline is 2011. So, less than two years from the moment when the Corps again tells New Orleanians the comforting news that we're safe, here comes confirmation that a money shortage may be inclining the Corps toward building a technologically inferior solution to the problem of getting rainwater out of the city while keeping storm surge from entering it.

The first problem is a recurring one: It rains a lot in New Orleans, and when it does, it often seems as if the sky is having a clearance sale on water. The second problem also recurs, though much less frequently: when a major hurricane is in the Gulf of Mexico, storm surge can get to Lake Ponchartrain and needs to be kept in the lake, lest it catastrophically flood the city.

This Times-Picayune story points out that not only is the Corps leaning toward the cheaper solution, which outside experts deride as technologically inferior, but, some critics allege, the Corps may be inflating the cost of the superior solution and underestimating the cost of its preferred solution--putting its fingers on the scale.

The quote that stuns, though, is this one, from Tom Jackson, past president of the American Society of Civil Engineers:

"This is a plan fraught with the potential for failure, and if the corps goes through with it and leaves those bad floodwalls in place, I'll consider it criminal," Jackson has said.

Those bad floodwalls, of course, are the ones that failed so catastrophically in 2005. The Corps' plan calls for keeping rainfall outflow in those canals at a set level, above which, the agency believes, the walls might fail. Again. The Corps should know. It designed and supervised the construction of those floodwalls.

The project has to be finished by 2011. It needs money now, which would make the technically superior method achievable. Too bad there isn't something like, oh, let's say, a stimulus package that could provide those funds.

Comments

[twogunmojo]

one more time...l.a. is prone to earthquakes and i don't care what the engineers say about retro-fitt­ing....ans­wer me this....you have 24 hours advance notice that a magnitude 9.8 was coming...are you willing to bet your life that your building is going to withstand the shaking or are you leaving town...and even if your building survives the first one are the engineers still on the hook if an aftershock of 6.7 knocks your building down....

[twogunmojo]

i guess my point is that it doesn't matter what the computer models say or what the engineers say or what the math says..its all based on a logical progression of events....but no one really knows if the "walls" are going to hold...and i include the following link because i live in tn. but my dads side of the family is from louisiana...and i don't have to go any futher than reelfoot lake to understand that water cannot be stopped.....http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/states/louisiana/history.php

[Harry Shearer - Huffpost Blogger]

"Water cannot be stopped". Okay, then, let's tear down the levees that run the length of the Mississippi, and let it flood the midwest every spring, and let it reinvigorate the ravaged Louisiana wetlands with its sediment and stop sending farm runoff into the Gulf and causing a massive dead zone in that body of water. No? Economic reasons?

[twogunmojo]

we are not adversaries harry....i wish to god that the colorado river still reached to the ocean instead of powering las vegas...rivers should run free...like the nile and the amazon..you know from my post down thread the mississippi tends to run wild at times...i saw an interesting show on the boat people of indonesia after the tsunami and they believed that the sea god had forgotten what people taste like..as good an explanation as any....maybe hurricanes are no different...so what if the netherlands build for the 1 in 10000 event....is nola ready for the 1 in 10000 earthquake that causes the ground under the city to sink or the ground under pontchartrain to rise...was krakatoa a 1 in 10000 year event...we should ask anak krakatoa (son of krakatoa) when its going to kill another 37000 people...all i am saying is its not up to the government to protect you from the vagaries of mother nature....you are asking them to do the impossible...

[twogunmojo]

tell us harry...if al gore is right and the hurricanes are going to get worse not better why continue to live in an area that is going to continually be vulnerable....and how many hurricanes will it take to make people see the light....or do americans have the right to continue to live where they want...regardless of the consequences...

[RepugsOut08]

I think the question should be, how many inadequately constructed Corps of Engineer flood protection systems failing will it take, before the Corps sees the light and bulids one actually capable of doing the job?
The answer should be one, but this discussion concerns the apparent consideration by the Corps of Engineers, to add at least one more inadequate flood protection system to the tally.
The other question should be, does the Corp of Engineers have the right to, knowingly, build inadequate flood protection structures where people have lived for generations, regardless of the consequences.
My answer would be no, and I think it's ridiculous to blame the people who live there (and died there) because of this man made catastrophy. Implying that it would be cheaper to move the city and relocate all it's people, than to just build the flood systems correctly sounds ludicrous to me.

[twogunmojo]

i didn't say move the city...i said raze the city....50 billion would have moved about 500,000 people at a 100,000 a piece...a third of what aig alone is getting...and hold the insurance companies accountable...make them pay out on their policies thereby reducing the governments outlay....how many people could have gone to work rebuilding the entire city...talk about infrastructure projects....

[kevin2323]

I know it's annoying, but I'll keep on saying it. This site, along with the Democratic party, failed to counter any of Rove's propaganda in its headlines. Now we've got to live with the political perception we allowed to go unchallenged.

[twogunmojo]

they could have paid everyone 100,000 dollars to move out of nola....and stay gone for 5 years unless you are willing to work 12 hours a day..7days a week to rebuild the city right...the entire city could have been razed and the concrete and steel could have been recycled into massive levees/sea walls/canals which would be the foundation for controlling flood waters..and the city could have been rebuilt as a shining example of what we can do...this should have been an imminent domain issue don't you think i.e. we are rebuilding the city the right way...here is your money...get out....

[Harry Shearer - Huffpost Blogger]

Except that by federal law, only the federal government has jurisdiction over the levees. Which is why we're in this discussion today.

[twogunmojo]

so you are saying that the federal government could not have used imminent domain or martial law or anything else and taken over the city...paid everyone to get out...and rebuilt the city the way it should be....unless your argument is that the government is pretty much useless no matter who is in charge i don't see your point

[twogunmojo]

you are losing this one harry...how many times has the mississippi wiped out other towns along its course....how many houses in the mid-west are f5 proof...if los angeles ever has the big one there will not be enough money to rebuild it...and how are you going to keep the rain out of nola....
http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/floods/papers/oh_2/great.htm...
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/05/0501_river4.html...

[Bienville]

Perhaps you didn't read the entire article. The Mississippi River is mentioned not at all. Being the very first European city on the River, and having never been "wiped out" in nearly 300 years, New Orleans has shown it knows how to live with the River better than those"other towns." New Orleans is the standard by which those other towns should be measured, rather than the reverse.

With regard to the two links you cited, please note that in neither 1927 nor in 1993 did the River enter New Orleans.

[twogunmojo]

maybe you missed the point...if you live in a disaster prone area don't act surprised when a disaster happens...and don't be surprised when no one cares....

[Harry Shearer - Huffpost Blogger]

Re: the rain: the so-called Wood Pump (invented by an engineer named Wood) has been so successful at draining the city of its frequent fast and furious rainfall that, after their catastrophic flood in 1953, the Dutch came to New Orleans to study it. That's how.

[RepugsOut08]

You know, Harry, as I read some of the negative coments here, I'm strangely reminded of Randy Newman's "Political Science" lyrics. Forgive me Randy.

Some don't like her, I don't know why
She may not be perfect, but neither are you or I
But all around, some American's put her down
They'd cut her lifeline, and leave her there to drown

She gave them culture, but are they grateful?
They prefer American Idol by the plateful
They don't respect her for all she's done
They'd cut her lifeline, let her sink beneath the sunset

They say it's too expensive to keep the waters caged
But they spend ten times that amount on sodas and lemonade
For a blanket with sleeves, whatever's the new rage
They'd cut her lifeline, let her slip beneath the waves

Global warmin' is comin'
That's what some smart folks say
So who you gonna turn to
Come's your judgement day?

Glup goes New York, glup Miami
Glup goes Boston, glup Florida Keys
As all the coastal cities, the nation 'round
Start sendin' refugees into your hometown
Oh how happy you will be
Knowin' not one single penny
Of you hard earned tax dollars
Funded a single levee

So free some space up in your town
And let's let the coastlands drown
Let's let the coastlands drown ;)

[goddesscon2001]

I do not understand why we never went the Holland route?
Seriously.­.surrounde­d by water and yet manage to keep from flooding..
Personally I think we should look to Louisiana for a great civil project anyway...with all the previous mismanagement of the FEMA funds and rebuilding effort..
Louisiana could be the come back kid economically if they put a lot of people to work on building new levees a stronger infrastructure..
For everyone that says move NO to higher ground ...has obviously never been to this beautiful city..
The people are the heart and soul..they lost a lot of residents to Katrina..now is the chance to make it the poster child of states and how to put people back to work..build our roads , bridges and levees...also making sure new construction is done well..put the local people to work rebuilding their homes..
It can be done...
Harry..if you scream loud enough..Obama will hear you..for once I have a little bit of faith in my government..
Oh crap..that sounds so *un* American doesn't it? *L*
I agree..this needs to be shoved onto the front pages of all news outlets..and make sure you mention Mister Rogers from Louisiana... how hard he is fighting for ALL of the people in Louisiana...by saying he refuses an offer of aid to his public..

[oldgeek1]

Jindal had no problem taking the bail out money to bail out the water and a bad storm, now does not want to takie the bail out money to protect people from a bad economy.. ok I understand.

[wdw505]

hey news flash they are below sea level..........the sea will eat the city .........in time.......why wait......stop spending the money.........move

[Harry Shearer - Huffpost Blogger]

New Flash: more than half of populated New Orleans is at or above sea level. Any thoughts now?

[wdw505]

gee is there any point where people were living below sea level........do they have a huge lake on the other side of them............is the lake on the same level as any part of the city

thought so

[maxgen]

How far are they above the storm surge, which would devastate any area once it broached the sea wall?

Is it worth taking a chance on a maximum 3.0 hurricane? What happens if they have a 4.0 one, and half of them are below sea level?

Finally, are you willing to say it's ok because only half of them (the poor half) will be flooded out?

[rocketman69]

Tell the other half to move, then.

[papapj]

Tell that to the Dutch......

So much for the American spirit...

[steamboat]

Harry, just nosey, have you griped to Obama about this? If so, what were the results?..­.......Any­thing less then super levees to handle the absolute strongest of hurricanes is insufficient....I know this: If I was a businessman the last place I'd want to locate is NOLA until this problem is dealt with.

[Harry Shearer - Huffpost Blogger]

As I've noted elsewhere in these comments, a message has been sent, through two different intermediaries, to a senior Obama advisor asking for a discussion on this subject. So far, no response....

[RoseMerry]

Mr. Shearer, you are amoug the greatest near at HuffPo and I so appreciate the Good Things that you are doing.

Thank you.

[Soulmentor]

Perhaps because they don't know how to respond to the foolhardiness of trying to rebuild or even protect New Orleans. Didn't Katrina teach us anything, especially in light of the climate change threats to the world's low lying coasts? New Orleans is going under, for god's sake. Spend the money on moving it instead of the futility of trying to save it. Common sense, of course, will not prevail. It's like pissing into a hurricane.

[TruthmongerII]

Americans fail to comprehend that you get what you pay for. If you want a cheapo quik-fix to save money (to give to the rich bankers) then you should anticipate failure. In this case that condemns thousands of people to a miserable death.

[wakeup804]

What they need to do, instead of throwing good money behind bad, is to stop the patchwork, and build a state of the art levee system. They should go to the Netherlands and study their levee system, built to withstand a once in a 10,000 year storm. I am working on my Master's in Disaster Management, and the levees are a regular topic of conversation for us. They have known for decades the levees will not hold against a major storm, and New Orleans has yet to be the bulleye's. If you think Katrina was bad, wait until New Orleans takes a direct hit, Katrina will look likes childsplay. Pony up the few billion it will take to build it right, because if it is not done right, they levees will fail for decades to come. Hoping and praying the levees will hold, is not sound disaster planning.

[Soulmentor]

I truly believe that nothing can save NO. For those who don't buy into the rising oceans threat or think we can outsmart a hurricane even bigger than Katrina, consider that NO is ultimately doomed anyway because it has been slowly but naturally sinking for decades which anyone who pays attention surely knows and that must surely include Mr Shearer. Add now the climate change threats of rising oceans and stronger hurricanes, and NO is doomed by a natural triple whammy. Spending billions on NO is a fools errand. Small wonder Mr Shearer is getting no response from a pragmatist like Obama. What could he possibly say that made any sense other that "start moving it to higher ground"?

[Harry Shearer - Huffpost Blogger]

And Long Beach, and San Francisco, and New York--other port cities at sea level. Do we abandon them too, and all move to Phoenix and Reno? OTOH, the salvation of New Orleans could serve as a technological (and job-producing) template for what we do with the rest of our sea-level cities.

[rocketman69]

Then let LA pay for it.

[Eclectic Radical]

What I consider criminal is the fact that this same problem, 'it's too expensive', is recurring again after the first time around.

The ACE reported the need for more money and significant refurbishment in 2001, shortly after President Bush took office. While I think the decision not to properly finance the project and do it properly constitutes depraved indifference by the federal government (specifically, to the best of my knowledge, the Bush White House), I suppose I can understand (without condoning) the decision that it was too expensive to do immediately during a period of deceptively comfortable tranquility under a somewhat too comfortable government establishment.

How much money has been spent on disaster relief, refugee assistance, relocation of displaced people, private contractors and security as a result of the aftermath of hurricane Katrina? Do we want to go through it all again forty years down the road, because we failed for a second time to take proper measures after a disaster showed us the necessity of those measures?

Some say it is a Louisiana problem, not a federal problem. Louisiana is part of the United States and has the same right to expect assistance in 'hurricane­-proofing' that California does in 'earthquak­e-proofing­' or the help Kansas gets from the National Weather Service in tracking tornadoes. Some say New Orleans residents should move someplace else. Would you let the federal government move you out of your home because it was too expensive to make your home safe?

[LatteLibertine]

I understand what you mean, Harry.

I lived down and around the New Orleans area for seven and one half years. I left in 2002 so I did not experience Katrina.

I dearly miss the city and think it's horrid what is going on. I wish you well in trying to get help and some real progress for the city.