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Harry Shearer

Harry Shearer

Posted: October 14, 2007 08:35 PM

Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time


I was but a babe when the Atomic Age began -- babe in the infant sense, babe -- and a mere tot when the decision was made to tame the mighty atom. Viewed from this distance, Atoms for Peace (as the taming project was called) seems impossibly wrongheaded, an invitation to mischief, suspicions of mischief and mischievous suspicions of mischief.

Atoms for Peace, announced with grandiose fanfare by President Eisenhower, was the launching of the civilian nuclear-power industry. No longer was the split atom to be the symbol only of hideous warfare on a scale unimaginable to humans before Hiroshima; now our smiling atomic friend was to power the all-electric homes of our future, a cheerful accomplice to nothing more threatening than Westinghouse and General Electric. Better yet, countries that cowered in fear of our nuclear might would soon become happy customers of our nuclear bounty.

Flash forward half a century, and both Iran and, more recently, Syria stand as testimony to the lunatic flaw in that strategy. If the same technology, embodied in the same infrastructure, can be used either (or both) for peace and war, one's ability to detect preparations for war is seriously, if not fatally, compromised. And a country which intends nothing more than the ego boost (and power boost) of a civilian nuke plant may not mind a bit of vagueness about whether the centrifuge array can enrich to greater than three percent, the way Saddam didn't mind a bit of vagueness about his capabilities, just to keep the nasty neighbors in check. When the vagueness proves to be, or can be used to seem, truly threatening, as we learned in 2003, it can be too late for all concerned.

How much easier this current moment would have been if nukes were weapons of war, period. Of course, then we wouldn't be looking at a nearly $60 billion bill for the country's only high-level nuclear waste disposal facility, Yucca Mountain, years away from opening, and only a couple of decades from closing, having reached its storage capacity. Then, while the Mountain only has to protect its contents for the next several thousand years (warning signs are to be erected in less than a dozen current human languages -- save your dictionaries, folks), our mid-century quest will be for the next storage site, and the next.

But how much easier life on the world stage would be, as well. Indonesia wouldn't at this very moment be contemplating nuclear plants near the site of active volcanoes, and A.Q. Khan might be far better known (and perhaps even prosecuted) as a lunatic rogue threat to world peace, having sold or given nuclear knowhow and technology to, among others, Libya, North Korea and Iran, from his position as the father of Pakistan's A-bomb.

Atoms for Peace allowed everything to be fudged. We just need a clean source of electricity, the plant-builders say. They're hiding their true intentions, the war-mongers say.

And we, trapped in the great middle, can just say, "Thanks a lot, Ike. Next life, try promoting Heroin for Peace."

 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
DonRoberto
04:21 PM on 10/16/2007
Hard decisions here. "Nuclear" can be a viable alternative to coal, gas, etc., but when have operators in the US ever forsaken profits for safety? The history of nuclear power in the USA is not pretty, possibly because of the its origins in the weapons business. And "entombment" of wastes for tens of thousands of years (don't some of the plutonium isotopes have 30,000 year half-lives?) sounds like the absolute ultimate example of shifting our own debts to our descendants.
Some form of power generation from nuclear fission will almost certainly be a part of our future, barring major breakthroughs in fusion research. The question facing us is not IF we will go nuclear, but rather whether we let the GEs and Westinghouses once again opt for economy --- over longterm safety --- when we do.
02:03 AM on 10/16/2007
HOW CYNICAL! "Atoms for piece".
dangerous, ridiculous, anti-life.

Enough with the "nuke-u-lar" power.
The power of GREED.

It's time for the FAT, UGLY, GREEDY REPUBLICAN ELEPHANTS to take their BAD ACT and get out of town!

REPUBLICANS ARE WORTHLESS TO THE AVERAGE AMERICAN!. THEY ARE DANGEROUS TO LIFE.

What about their baloney "war for peace"?

They stand up for GREEDY RICH CORPORATE WELFARE QUEEN CORPORATIONS getting richer on their Bush-Cheney "designer war" the IRAQ INVASION. Designed to enrich corrupt contractors and capture oil fields for Big Oil.
Over dead and maimed USTroops and Iraqis.

NO THANKS, YOU JERKS!!
Take your nuclear ambitions and stick 'em where the sun don't shine. I hope you blow up.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
joebhed
Greenback Revolutionist
08:22 PM on 10/15/2007
Its a real shame that a lot of folks are ignoring the essential truths of Harry Shearer's post.
Dual-use.
Peace and War.
Have and have-not.
Black and White.
Forget about the "alternatives" argument.
What it will be, will be.
But only if we decide to deal with Harry's truth. He precisely points out a half-century old mistake.
Atoms-for-peace , NOT.
The earthlings made a kind of deal in agreeing to move forward with atomic fission after it was seen that it can readily be the end of human civilization as we know it.
We made a deal. A faustian bargain?
But it didn't work.
We now have many, many thousands of nuclear weapons on a hair trigger, and while some may be junk that will be recycled, we also see the push for new generations of these weapons.
Atoms for peace?
Take the IAEA.
After 50 years of "Safeguard Agreements and Inspection/verification regimes" developed by truly the best minds on the planet, guess what?
Forgot a few things.
Nobody's perfect.
Like enrichment.
Its a dual-use thing.
Now we have almost fifty years of NPT agreed to by the preponderance of the worlds governments and populations, but it is inadequate to protect against the potential for weapons proliferation.
That's the nugget that Harry is laying out here.
We have come to LEARN that we have not learned enough to do this thing right.
Now we have governments and private interests trying to get their hands on "spent fuel" and "waste-products", ostensibly for the purpose of gaining economic efficiency.
We don't want all that un-fissioned uranium and heat-producing plutonium to not contribute to progress now, do we?
Yes, a whole lot of presidents have made grave mistakes with the lives of ordinary human beings.
Sometimes it takes only a few years to realize these consequences, and sometimes a few decades.
In the case of Ike's Atoms-for-peace program, it has taken a few generations.
Thanks, Harry.
08:00 PM on 10/15/2007
"That means that at some point, someone is going to forget about that mountain, and someone else is going to crack it open and unleash one heck of a major catastrophe. But hey, you'll all be long dead before then, right? So you probably don't care one way or the other."

That's right, because I am pretty sure that in 2000 years from now society will have figured out how to effectively recycle nuclear waste. Why are you lefties so pessimistic about what humans can do -- uranium is a great natural resources, but there is no better resource on earth than the human brain and what it can create.
07:56 PM on 10/15/2007
As long as Harry and his rich Hollywood friends have the money to cool and heat their many enormous houses, those in the third world that want to get electricity so that their children can read at night can be damned or build industry that can employ them and allow their society to develop can be damned.

The self-righteousness and hypocrisy of the left can be so sickening (as say as a former left winger)
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HUFFPOST COMMUNITY MODERATOR
SeconLine
Reality is a liberal conspiracy.
01:00 AM on 10/17/2007
Last time I heard, Harry lives in New Orleans.

You know, the major American city pretty much destroyed while the President was on vacation.

When did you stop being a "Left-Winger"?

Was it when you stopped paying attention?
05:00 PM on 10/15/2007
it seems likely that the warning signs around yuck-a-mountain, will work really well.
"Keep Out", "Bad Juju", "Curse of the Mummy",
and such like warnings have always worked well in the past; humans being so incurious that they naturally stay away from things that they are told not to go near.
04:01 PM on 10/15/2007
Back in 1976, the Shah of Iran made the pitch to Washington that they wanted nuclear power in order to sustain their finite reserves of their primary export - oil. Washington gave a thumbs up. Ford was president, Cheney was his Chief of Staff and Rummy was doing his first stint as Secretary of Defense.

They both supported Iran's goals of achieving nuclear energy in 1976. But recently they said that Iran is a nation awash in a sea of oil, and there is no need for a nuclear energy program[1].

[1] http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/16/144204
03:05 PM on 10/15/2007
Well "atleast" nuke power is very expensive thereby keeping it relatively rare and in the hands of nation states, only on the brink of selling same to splinter rogue groups?

Wait till gene splicing is sold in kiddie lab christmas gift packages. Some kid in the garage is going to wipe us all out. Enjoy the nuke power as long as we have it.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
deminmo
just looking for answers
01:43 PM on 10/15/2007
Funny thing is the nuclear energy plant in my home state of Missouri, is not under suspicion for having the materials to build a bomb.

But if Iran and Syria have one or two there is no way a country deemed hostile to the US can be using this to supply electicity! However Pakistan, India, China and Russia are not under
any scrutiny. And of course there is Israel. And they have not admitted to anything or have they invited inspectors to look.

If the planets don't align and destroy the world
my guess we are at least going to get to 30 seconds on the "Doomsday Clock" in the near future.
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Nutcase
Of, By and For - Elsewhere known as Psycho MD
01:43 PM on 10/15/2007
I remember when representatives of TVA came to our high school to extoll the advantages of this new miracle. We were told that it would be so inexpensive that they would dispose of the meters and charge all residences a flat rate of $5 per month.

Did they slightly overstate their case?
05:56 PM on 10/15/2007
No, they didn't. It currently costs my plant 1.73 cents a KW/hr to produce electric power. The local electric company charges >15 cents a KW/hr. Nuclear power has become financially stable and is a huge money maker if you develop the right culture at the plant. It is the cleanest and cheapest way to generate electric power. The waste issue is overblown. We store all of the waste ever generated by our plant on-site and it only takes up a space the size of a small warehouse. All above ground, and sealed. There are no emissions from the plant, and the surrounding area is a wildlife refuge. Show me a power plant that can compete with that. The Oil and Coal industries have just had more money and better lobbyists to keep them in business.
HARRY ASKS: Sealed how? Underground as well? For how long? How do you guarantee security for as long as the half-life of the waste elements? Anything's cheap if you don't factor in the long-term costs.
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Nutcase
Of, By and For - Elsewhere known as Psycho MD
07:25 PM on 10/15/2007
Your "facts" are incorrect according to a close friend who taught nuclear engineering to officers for the U.S. Navy.

The half-life of the materials is about 25,000 years. The original life of these plants was supposed to be 25 years. That means building 1,000 plants and taking care of the materials for nearly 5 times the present existence of civilization before the half-life has expired. After one half-life, the radiation levels are still not at an acceptable level to allow reuse of the property of the original plant.
12:58 PM on 10/15/2007
Here's the problem I run into, I believe in science far more than I do people. I don't believe it is possible to prevent discovery or dampen development. It seems to me if we valued science/education/discovery more in this country, we would have an army of brilliantly minded individuals who could provide a solution for the nuclear problem. As it is, I agree with Mr. Shearer in that any of the options we've conceived to date for disposing of the waste are out of the question.

Still, I don't think we should rule out nuclear power as an energy source. Plus, now that other nations have the secret, no matter what we decide, they will pursue it. We have no choice but to take a Schrodinger approach to their intentions, but I hardly think firing up the military every time the question arises is right either.

So I would ask Mr. Shearer if he is suggesting the world, as a whole, outlaw the use of nuclear energy making it a no-brainer that if someone pursues it, they must be stopped? Is that fair to do while so many nations lack essential energy, and we have no alternative? Or is this merely an exercise in thinking through to the consequences of our decisions?

HARRY RESPONDS: If you're asking me, I'd say the latter, because I'm truly a dreamer.
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Nutcase
Of, By and For - Elsewhere known as Psycho MD
02:22 PM on 10/15/2007
I disagree. We have had plenty of resources going into the sciences for many, many years. One of the results was the atomic age, as they called way back when. The problem is that be haven't invested anything into education in the social and behavioral sciences. All of our talent is pushed towards the physical sciences. That is where the money, respect and prestige is invested.

More than 60 years since the advent of the atomic bomb and we still haven't the skills to figure out how to deal with its implications and ramifications. That is the responsibility of the social and behavioral sciences, not the physical sciences.

We emphasize only the latest and greatest miracles out of the laboratories with no thought given to the ultimate effects of those miracles or how to deal with them.
12:45 PM on 10/15/2007
I understand the article is really about using tools for war as tools for peace and the confusion it may cause. I'd rather tools for war were used for peace. Confusing yes, but better. It seems the USA is saying certain nations cannot use them for either purpose. Like it's our right to tell them what to do.
07:01 PM on 10/15/2007
Rights? Who said anything about rights?...
12:36 PM on 10/15/2007
If we could harness all the hot air out of DC for the past 50 years we'd solve the world's energy problems for many many thousands of years. There is potent energy in that BS!
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
StopThePlanet
Relentless pursuit of every silver lining's cloud
02:18 PM on 10/15/2007
Yeah, but that still wouldn't end the threats of nuclear (nucular) war.
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ibsteve2u
Someone who cares - to his unending regret
11:50 AM on 10/15/2007
I look at population growth rates, the amount of known petroleum reserves, and the wonderfully inconsistant things the climate is doing and I don't see any way around more nuclear reactors.

To continue the heroin metaphor, it is too bad capitalism always gets in the way of using good old-fashioned addiction as a stabilizing influence.

If the Israelis had built a half-dozen more nuclear reactors a few decades ago, they could be giving their neighbors free electricity...as long as they played nice.

The expense would probably net out well against the cost of their wars, and it would eliminate any argument for more reactors elsewhere.

Just another goofball idea, because you know capitalism - war and death are vastly preferable to somebody getting something for nothing.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
deminmo
just looking for answers
02:05 PM on 10/15/2007
Forget heroin. The new cash crop is cocaine.
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janmB
INSPIRED
11:27 AM on 10/15/2007
In order to solve problems----one needs to focus on them. Due to human nature there has to be a crisis before that happens.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
StopThePlanet
Relentless pursuit of every silver lining's cloud
02:23 PM on 10/15/2007
A crisis unfortunately does not always lead to a solution. Far too many human beings prefer not to be enlightened or are incapable of being enlightened enough to solve a crisis. Thus with nuclear weapons being available to these people, the human race may be doomed. Hope not but as time goes by, I think technology has truly surpassed the human race's ability to contain its effects.