Sex Hypocrisy Trumps The Other Kinds

The pending downfall of Eliot Spitzer is making huge national news, primarily because he's governor of the state where the national news media are located (although there's a recent tape of Katie Couric wondering if the country cares about Bernie Kerik -- who came a lot closer to posing a threat to the nation than Gov. Spitzer). But mention of Kerik, even within parentheses, should remind us that the Spitzer switcheroo -- two fisted crime-fighting prosecutor to alleged Mann Act violator -- is not the most dramatic nor ironic of 180s just among New York prosecutors-turned-pols.

There is, after all, the case of Rudy Giuliani, the mob-fighting US attorney turned mobbed-up mayor and presidential candidate. Mobbed up?

When Giuliani discovered that his ex-chaffeur-turned-police-chief-turned-
business-partner-turned-recommendee-for-DHS-
Secretary was involved with "nice people", his reaction, uttered during his presidential campaign, was that Kerik was one of the few nominees he had failed properly to vet. No outrage that his Police Chief, for God's sake, was involved with mobsters, no prosecutorial get-tough language. Lock-em-up Rudy was now Understanding Rudy. All this transpired as his presidential campaign was spiraling earthward, so maybe the national media thought the guy was being punished enough. But he's still maintaining a career as a security consultant, which, given the fact that he insisted his city's disaster response center be placed in the World Trade Center complex (against the advice of his own police experts), is like Marcia Clark getting a $4 million book deal for losing the Trial of the Century.

Rudy made one smart move in all this: not getting Bernie a hooker.

Comments

[WilliePilgrim]

There's always plenty of hypocracy to go around. How about the Federal govt's presumption to even allow the Mann Act to still exist? You know, that if they wanted to Legislators could actually work to get rid of old laws that were unwisely enacted. It would simplify our lives and once again encourage people to be involved in a process that had far more transparency than what we have now and restore the faith in our elected leadership which, I don't think anyone would deny, is holding on to its last shred of decency, if that. Or, maybe that''s why they dont.

[qdog112]

This is about wall street corruption. He pissed them off and went after him. Guilty, though he may be (and stupid). The sex should not be a greater story than what he did to cleanse wall street. So while they got their man, the rich propose a toast as they go back to business as before Spitzer on wall street. Isn't interesting that "Kristen" is now a bigger prostitute than she ever was. We criticize the life style while paying her for having been a prostitute. What message is that to our precious little girls who we want to protect. She is now worth millions.How enticing is that?

[mae692]

Why is this news when Chis Ward (heavily connected republican) who disappeared with millions of dollars from the RNC is buried? Specifically how can the government track what you do with 4000 of your own money but can't find that stolen 900000, or pallets full of money dropped on Iraq for that matter. But let somebody in New Orleans get a tattoo and they're all over it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/9/3/224946/4710

[Bienville]

A couple things fascinate me about our collective reaction to this story.

The posts about the ordeal of New Orleans take two weeks to garner 5 or 6 dozen comments. This story took 36 hours.

An ordeal of a million Americans, was inflicted by government and prolonged by government. I would think conservatives would call for the government - generally, government is to blame for every wrong they ever perceived in their lives - to make restitution to the private citizens who were wronged by government. But, no, not even the women and children who were harmed by the husbands and fathers who trusted the levees on behalf of the entire family are to be spared, all in New Orleans must suffer and fend for themselves. Conservatives cannot intervene.

From what I hear, conservatives are most ardent about calling for Spitzer's head (figuratively or legislatively, if not literally or anatomically (genitally, from one I heard)). It is my observation that many of the same people are the first to cry foul about government overreaching into private lives. I can think of little more private than the physical intimacy between two consenting adults. (Yes, make a law allowing the wronged spouse to collect damages form the philander, if she, or he, chooses.) Yet, without a hint of irony, they call for more aggressive prohibition and prosecution of a long list of similar behavior. Conservatives must intervene.

[SAuerswald]

Harry, this reminds me of "Alternative Scenario Theater". Maybe there's more going on here. What do you think?

[CitizenE]

In the end, while this is patently obvious, and it is also obvious from the realities that Craig and Vitter are both in office still that Republicans who fuck around catch more slack than Dems, Spitzer's complete undoing was to have his sick at heart written all over her face wife pose with him at his press conference. It was unseemly, and while people can talk about his too human sexual fall from grace, he really is being punished for what appears to be the betrayal of a woman who is far more attractive then he is, a Harvard grad, and a woman of accomplishment for goodness sakes. What the nation really wants is for her to have a couple of brothers have a long talk with him.

[wadenelson1]

Instead of all these bank transfers, if Spitzer had been smart he would have done like Larry Craig and only given "her" a tip.

[starboymikey]

Instead of all these bank transfers, if Spitzer had been smart he would have done like Larry Craig and only given "her" a tip.
____________________________________________________________________

I think you mean a "tap."

[Hoelder]

Can you say Larry Craig? It's time to check what constitues prostitution? What is a trophy wive. I wonder how many of those got married to Joe Blow, who works in the steel mill or Mr. Geek who is looking for the way out of his cubicle. Is a woman that marries for money still a whore? The college girl who needs to fund the enormeous bills is of course the cliche prostitue. The hooker in the street is caught solicitating. Is she a prostitute, a hooker, a whore or an escort? Is the mistress of a wealthy man with appartment a prostitute. Is she ever to appear in court? It is for the rich. It is a clean affair the highr the price. When a man marries a hooker, is she a whore? When a man marries a rich old woman is he a hooker? Or a young woman an old man? Class warfare at it's best. It amazes me that the torch bearers of moralism are also those who use their power to dirty some of the strongest instincts we have: the survival instinct. But we have to be clean, otherwise we are just whores ourselves. No money, you are a whore! I know I am a whore.

[starboymikey]

Is the mistress of a wealthy man with appartment a prostitute.
_____________________________________________________________

You raise some classic questions, Hoelder, but this one is probably the most interesting. There's been a lot of stuff in the news lately about Sweden, where around nine years ago they changed the focus of anti-prostitution laws so that it is now the customer rather than the vendor of sex who goes to prison. In short, it is not illegal to sell sex in Sweden, only to buy it.

Now we're hearing a lot of people saying that is what we should do in this country, put the johns in jail instead of the hookers.

But you've raised a very good question. What happens to the Wall Street exec or politician who keeps a mistress in a fancy apartment? Is she a hooker and he her John. Will the rich guys go to jail or only the poor ones who can only afford to buy their sex on the street? I don't think the answer to this one is hard to guess.

A law like this must raise the question of how you define a prostitute and the sale of sex. Is a beautiful young woman who marries an old man for money a hooker? Is he her john? Isit legal marriage that makes the relationship okay? If so, then what about mistresses? Would it be okay if the guy says he loves his mistress, even though he is in essence paying her for sex?

A law like this has the potential to create yet another class or race-based double standard, as with powder cocaine an crack, where the penalties for the latter are far more severe, and it is mainly the poor, Black and Hispanic who suffer the consequences of this inequity.

[Elmo]

we're about to get an answer to the often-asked question, "just how blatant is the justice department prepared to be in its special treatment of the wealthy and powerful?"

if eliot spitzer had had this case referred to him as ag, would he have prosecuted? you can bet your assets.

[lyla tharp]

Why did Rudy get away with it and we pile on Spitzer

[fogbreath]

The reason Rudy "got away with it" is that being the mayor of a major u.s. city is the perfect deadend job.
as for why people are "piling on spitzer " he was an up and comer( no pun intended); potenial presidential timber.

[truth101]

Odds are he is going to plead entrapment and there will be no downfall at all. Odd are the hooker
is looking for a million dollar payout from People. Odds are mentioning the Mann act now or in the future is irrelevant and of no matter. Odds are he will survive like the fellas from Lousianiana and Utah. Just
a good story for the lull between major events. Let's see who is right.....only the future will tell.

[middleoftheroad]

There was NO entrapment...it's not some right wing motivated case...the BANK picked up of strange wires and when it was found that the account belonged to a public official it was checked out because of IRS concerns....So there. Just take it. A Dem is about to go down. He's not a good guy. I think Larry Craig should resign also. Dont just defend him because he's a democrat. The longer he stays the worst it's goona get for your party. Right?

[truth101]

Prostituion is present in the advertising of all the NEWSPAPERS calling for his ouster. They accept ads and promote this activity 365 days a year, and then cry hang him when this victimless crime becomes headlines. It is extremely unlikely this was all happenstance and accident and circumstance as you argue, extrmely -- there is an air of naivety in thinking it so and an air of pungent sulfur in forgetting the idea of due process when there is no victim.
As for the Senator from UTAH hurray for him because Minnesota was spending money on entrapment that should have been devoted to inspecting its bridges in the same damm city.
All the whores in Vegas should go on strike and you would see a vacancy rate unheard of in human history. All Democrates are innocent until proven guilty, but Republicans are inherently guilty because in the main they were born that way.

[Dannydel]

The reason there is such gloating when republicans get popped is simple. They hold themselves up as the shining examples of moral defender. Democrats on the other hand, tend to accept the fact that we all have a libido and that having sex, is not a high crime against humanity. Thus, when a democrat is caught in a compromising situation, he or she might be called a scoundrel. But when a (christian conservative) republican gets hoisted, they're also labeled a hypocrite...which is exactly what they are.
p.s. Prostitution is illegal in Las Vegas (Clarke county).

[Liberal2]

I don't give a darn if someone uses a prostitute, but it offends me when they are hypocrites. Spitzer put these people in jail, he should bunk with several of the pimps.

[darker]

Americans are sex hypocrites who punish sex but not corruption and killing USTroops for the sake of war profiteers gleefully shoveling taxpayer money out of USTreasury by the billions.

What are WE AMERICANS thinking?

What are we punishing, SEX? How stupid are we?
How can we be led by the nose by Republican panty sniffing manipulators who are IN CHARGE OF FBI, CIA WIRE TAPPING and sniffing your garbage and underwear?
How about THAT?
Why should our tax money pay for Republican bullsh*t like THAT?

WHY should Spitzer resign for sex?
Why don't Republicans RESIGN FOR CORRUPTION?

What about Republicans like Bush-Cheney & Company who LIED, started a FRAUDULENT FOR-PROFITS Iraq War, REPUBLICANS SCREWED middle-income Americans with HUGE TAX BILLS FOR DEFICIT,
& GIANT BILLS from PROFITEERING BIG OIL pals in their fake "oil shortage" that exists ONLY ON PAPER. They screwed middle-income Americans.

Why don't those Republican CORRUPTORS RESIGN?

What are we punishing here-- SEX? That is insane. How stupid are we?
WHEN WILL WE PUNISH CORRUPTION, INSTEAD?

[qdog112]

Be careful you might be stepping into Rev. Wright territory. - just better articulation.

[funkalicious]

How about the open secret on Wall street.. Pay Eliot Spitzer Tribute or get shaken down.

He made token cases, slap on the wrist fines and took credit, lets face it a 20 million dollar fine for a 2 to 10 billion dollar transgression is chump change price of paying a prig at Tammany hall.

Spitzer is known in Albany as a greedy whiny spoiled brat. Watching the brick bats being taken to him,
cause he tried to out mob the mob is just sweet schadenfreude.

Stick with making funny voices .

[Liberal2]

givern the nonsense Spitzer began attempting as soon as he became governor, I think you're spot on.

[lillianjane]

Among the people I know in Albany, he is known as a defender of the people against greedy corporations. Perhaps the people you know were part of the greedy corporations, bitter that you couldn't do whatever you wanted in your quest to make money. Or not. I don't know.

[Overd0g]

Isn't being a client to a prostitute a crime? Who cares if it is immoral.

[lillianjane]

Oh, and oral sex in some places STILL.
And medical marijuana.

Yeah yeah I know--it's illegal NOW and he was the AG and he prosecuted such a ring. Wrong. But he was and is a good man, and the state needs him, and they are stupid laws. I think he should use this to sue to legalize prostitution.

[BMSstudy]

please let me know what laws I can ignore becasue they are stupid.

[lillianjane]

It's only a crime because it's "immoral". Like gay sex used to be. And contraceptives. And drinking beer, for a while there.

[heywhat]

While I'm not at all sure that the government should be telling consenting women what they can do with their dollars and their bodies, Mr. Spitzer broke the law, He should resign. I'm sure there is a case to be made on the Kerik/Guiliani connection but, Mr. Shearer, I'm not sure your pulled it full circle. As for the other comments, I will let Mrs. Spitzer deal with the very private matters which she and her daughters now face.

http://strictlyanecdotal.com/2008/03/10/im-not-a-big-fan-of-laws-that-regulate-the-sexual-conduct-of-consenting-adults.aspx

[middleoftheroad]

Come on Harry...You natural reaction is to circle the wagons and protect this jerk...and most of his FRIENDS think he's a jerk. You bring up Kerik as if he is in the White House running Homeland Security! Correct me if I'm wrong...he was banished from public life pretty much and was the beginning of the end for the Rudy Campaign.

I also said the same thing on Nora's thread:

This guy was a prosecutor, who put away people RUNNING call girl operations...which you may call victimless, unless you defend all that go with them? Things like the mafia, the international slave trade, drug operations, money laundering and all the other fun things that create great Hollywood movies, but are actually real. He was heartless and UNFORGIVING when going after someone as an Attorney and deserves NOTHING LESS! Plus, unlike Clinton, who we all KNEW cheated; this guy really sold the fact that he was better then everyone else.
HARRY RESPONDS: I'm not "protecting this jerk", I'm reminding people that Rudy's 180 drew a lot less attention, because it wasn't sexual. That's all.

[voodoolock]

how many of those associated crimes would continue to thrive if prostitution were legalized?;

money laundering? no;

international slave trade? no;

drug operations? not actually related to prostitution;

the mafia? try again;

other fun things? like disease transmission, lack of health care, battery, extortion, hypocrisy, shame, working women and men powerless to stand up for their rights and safety because they're forced to work under the cloak of secrecy? these "fun things" could all cease to exist if the crime of prostitution were legalized.

[voodoolock]

how many of those associated crimes would continue to thrive if prostitution were legalized?

money laundering? no
international slave trade? no
drug operations? not actually related to prostitution
the mafia? try again
other fun things? like disease transmission, lack of health care, battery, extortion, hypocrisy, shame, working women and men powerless to stand up for their rights and safety because they're forced to work under the cloak of secrecy? these "fun things" could all cease to exist if the crime of prostitution were legalized.

[middleoftheroad]

But prostitution has NOT been legalized and Spitzer is the Governor of NY and as we all know, USED TO PUT THESE PEOPLE AWAY!!! Sorry, but you have to live a higher standard when you are in law enforcement. Sux...you play you pay...Would this demand the resignation of a TV star, radio jock, Doctor, teacher...probably not...but former holier then thou prosecuter¦You gotta go¦And HE IS ON THE WAY OUT.
Also, this is no big blow to progressive politics, so stop defending him. He"s a rich privileged jerk who used his father"s power to get where is. His successor is actually pretty interesting.

[voodoolock]

I'm criticizing the law, not trying to defend Spitzer.

[darthmaul]

Spitzer's career is probably over. However if he was from Louisiana, his behavior would just elicit a shrug of the shoulders. Just look at Louisiana Senator. David Vitter, he railed against Bill Clinton, until he was caught with his pants down, so to speak. Or how about Louisiana Congressmen "Dollar Bill" William J. Jefferson, who was reelected, after the FBI found $90,000.00. of "cold cash" in his freezer. "Hey, the money was hot, and I was afraid it might cause a fire." Hypocrisy and politics are joined at the hip. There's plenty to go around!

[Smartey]

When the hookers said he wanted to do things that "weren't safe", what exactly did that mean? Does anyone have any knowledge of precisely where Mr. Spitter wanted to stick "it"? Someone, please respond. We have an office pool going on, and right now the "caboose" odds are 8 to 1. I'd like to put some cash down on this democrat pervert's "proclivities", so please...someone let me know.

[kimk3]

Funny, but that's all I want to know, too. What was it he was paying such a big premium for her to do that was not safe? What was his particular kink? Those are the details I want to hear.

[Steve]

The tragic part of all of this is that in a sane society which treated women (and men) with respect, instead of pieces of meat, there would be no need for thousand buck a night hookers, because there would be no need for hookers. Mr Spitzer is a victim of an increasingly sexually hung up and hypocritical social system.

Sad, really.

[StrayTalk]

Hookers were here 1000 years ago. Hookers will be here 1000 years from now. Prostitution is a FACT of life. Get used to it . and better yet-- Legalize It.