- BIG NEWS:
- Barack Obama
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EN ROUTE TO NEW ORLEANS--Along with other New Orleanians, I've been amazed at the lack of alacrity with which both Republicans and Democrats have approached the problem of a federally caused flood that destroyed or damaged hundreds of thousands of homes, wrecking whole neighborhoods and communities, and spinning half a city's population into involuntary, semi-permanent exile. Now the answer becomes clear: the post-Katrina flooding just didn't destroy enough houses.
Latest estimate, in today's Times-Picayune, 105,000 residential buildings severely damaged in the City of New Orleans alone, a $14 billion loss. Apparently, judging by the turtle-like response, just not enough.
This becomes clear when you consider the heart-pounding race to come up with a plan to cushion the "legions of" subprime borrowers from the consequences of their gullibility, as their low "teaser " interest rates expire (note: they're called teaser rates for a reason).
"Legions," in NYT-speak, may mean millions, but, more importantly, these folks probably live in more than one state. So nationally prominent Democrats, like Hillary Clinton and Barney Frank (Congressman, have you yet been to post-K New Orleans ?) are falling all over themselves to "rescue" people who just couldn't bother to read fine print, who just chose to believe TV commercials about their incredible luck in qualifying for home loans, despite, in many cases, lack of income, jobs or assets (those loans even have an industry codeword--NINJA). For them, home loans became less a subject of sober and prudent financial judgment than an adjunct to Powerball.
According to today's NYT, the "big wave of defaults" "would be crashing during the primary and general election campaigns next year". So, New Orleans, if you want real help, please schedule your next failure of the federal levees during an even-numbered year.
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The flooding didn't destroy enough white rich republican leaning households, wonder what the outcome would be if that happened, sadly probably much different.
Look at the Landscape, then feel your heart break...
http://www.myspace.com/marsarizona
Harry, sub-prime lenders specifically targeted the elderly, the poor, the sick and the desperate - - because they knew that their "customers" financial choices were between bad and worse. Many refinanced existing homes in order to pay for medical care, clothing, food, education, not McMansions and vacations. The financial industry lobbied to federalize state lending laws, legalize and legitimize usury, bait and switch tactics, inflated penalties, hidden insurance premiums and outright fraud.
Tell the truth, how many of us read and understand the terms and conditions of a rental car agreement, let alone insurance policies, loan agreements mortgage documents? How many of us have the resources to enforce the terms and conditions?
Blaming the victims of yet another man made disaster does nothing to help anyone.
How many of us read the End User Licensing Agreement before we click yes to install the software? And of course, mortgage documents are all written in plain English at the eighth-grade level.
Flooding not caused by the federal govt.? When you cut out the funding for upgrades to the levee system, in spite of the warnings of experts and the pleas of the state's entire congressional delegation, and the system fails just as they had predicted, the federal govt. takes the blame because their actions led to disaster. In short, the federal govt. did cause it.
How did this turn into a discussion of Mexican-Americans versus Whites versus Blacks?
Simple situation:
The city was destroyed based on failures in the Federal Government's role in protecting the area. However, those who were effected were majority black and poor. Both the race issue and the "too complicated to understand" has led to our area being blown off.
Oh well.
http://dirtycoast.com
For the first time I have to agree with you. If we bail out those who borrowed money foolishly and now are loosing their home, what is next? Do we bail out those who invest in the junk bond market? Or those who start a business that fails?
There has to be personal accountability or we will bankrupt this country trying to save everyone (from the individual to the lender) who makes a bad fiscal decision.
But it's OK to bail out the predatory lenders?
Sounds like publicanism to me. Reminiscent of when old neal bush robbed the S&L industry and the taxpayer had to bail THEM out, when the feds should have gone after bush and friends to get the money back.
And for you morons that gripe about personal responsibilty, answer this: how many low and middle-class workers get to set their own salaries? Only the rich get to do this, while at the same time they get to set yours and mine as well. Don't start that BS about communism, it's nothing but publican propaganda(BS by any other name).
Notice he never mentions any accountability for Countrywide Mortgage or the thousand of other predatory lenders.
If a sharp greasy huckster takes advantage of you due to his industry lobbyists buying off their Republican Congressman or Senator to insure no pesky regulations or laws (God Forbid!) are enacted to protect you it's your fault and your stupid.
These Limbaugh wannabe's always try this bullshit. Now they're all elbowing each other under the table saying "It's a great time to buy!"
They fuck you on your loan. Get bailed out by the Fed to the tune of 100 billion then they go out and buy up the empty homes at cut rates.
This is what makes the "free" market great.
It's free of rules and regulations.
And it's free of morality.
Taking advantage of people is what makes America great.
This is one of those Cavuto watching little pricks. These little wheeler dealer screwpants con artists should be taken out back and shot.
Freebrew and andyboy:
Where do you get that I am for bailing out the lenders?
I specifically state that "There has to be personal accountability or we will bankrupt this country trying to save everyone (from the individual to the lender) who makes a bad fiscal decision."
Everyone, not just the person who was stupid enough to take the loan they couldn't afford.
Both of you appear to be jealous of the fact that there are those have more than you. Instead of waiting for the government to spoon feed you go get your own success.
"...the problem of a federally caused flood..."
Katrina was not federally caused. The flood that Katrina caused was not caused by the federal government. Both of the disasters (Katrina, then the flood) were either enabled or made worse by the feds, but neither one was CAUSED by the federal government of the US
And how come you are not complaining about what did happen after Katrina.
That Halliburton (Ticker HAL) swooped down to New Orleans to pick the low flying fruit. Just after First Karl Rove and then Cheeney were put in charge.
Old HAL would grab the government contracts for say clearing debrit for $27 per barrel
then, as was shown on CNBC when they were ordered out by Hal, They had scores of vendors they were hiring in a big room, to do the actual work, for say about $14, while these people turned around and handed $6 to people doing the work (AFTER BUSH'S *FIRST** ACT WAS TO ELIMINATE THE LAW THAT PAID A MINIMUM FOR Federal conrtacts doing that kind of worK)
This string is so filled with eronious accusations am holding my nose to write here.
Until 7 MONTHS ago, The Republicans were in charge for 12 years. Not to mention the Juvenile Delinquents in the White House for 7 years...the Executive being the branch that RUNS ALL government agencies and spends all tax payer dollars.
In the 90s when Mr. Clinton put out his INFRASTRUCTURE bill but the Gnewt Gangrene controlled congress refused to pass it, while he sent out ARMIES of liars to trash the idea on the Republican controlled Media.
At that time it would have taken EXACTLY 14B to fix those Leevies.
But **FOR DECADES ** the Republicans have been trying to destroy the agencies that Americans pay taxes to protect their interests while they are busy at work: FEMA,Army Copt of Engineers, EPA, OSIA, Department of ED Etcetera, etcetera etcetera. And they finally succeeded, while turning them into central headquarters for Republican fundraising. Replacing non partisan civil servents with thousands of Brownies, and tempering with documentation!
During the Clinton years, 2 Million people were displaced, from their homes, throughout the country from natural disasters and we had
the earthquake in Oakland. And under Clinton the head of FEMA was a cabinet member and they successfully handled all of it!!
In fact since he came in, 7 months ago, as chairman of the Finacial Services commitee Baraney Frank and Maxine Waters have been working on low interest loans and the build
projects in New Orleans.
As bankruptcies from medical expenses it was the Republican congress which last year made it much harder FOR INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILLIES to declaire bankruptcy AND EASIER TO BECOME A SUBPRIME LENDER. Greenspan even mused how surprised he was that more people have not taken advenatage of subprime borrowing.
There is nothing wrong with PUTTING A CAP on the pending rise in interested rate. One woman was VERBALLY told that her interest rates would range from 6-8%, but was just foreclosed on when it hit 10.3%.
If you form opinions it might help to base it on facts.
I'd suggest looking at the ideas of Kucinich's economic advisor, Michael Hudson, for the best path out of subprime lending fiasco. That'd be relief for NOnians scrapping after scarce capital. This guy makes more sense than the Federal Reserve...and that's a lot of cents!
http://www.chimpsternation.com/forum?c=showthread&ThreadID=1285
http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14546
Alkamm says;
"I did not realize that movement was afoot to bail out the naive bastards who signed on to these legal, but predatory loans. I though the government/central bank had focused mostly on rescuing the big mortgage companies."
It's the same thing. Democrats are now the party of big financial capital and jump and the financial institutions whim.
Mr. Shearer, I think you are being too harsh on the borrowers. The were tricked, I'm sure none was told of what a "teaser" meant, not everyone has your intelligence or your wealth. The banks preyed - is that something we should not ban, deligitimize, criticize?
As for your repetition about "federal levees" this indicates an intention to "pin" the blame on the Feds. Do you know who handled the levee money? State and local boards. Do you know locals? They all blame the state long before the federal govt. and for all of George Bush's incompetence, it was he who first asked NOLA to evacuate. Blanco is zilch in history for not ordering a mandatory evacuation.
HARRY RESPONDS: They are "federal levees" because they were designed and built by the US Army Corps of Engineers. Nobody else "handled" the "levee money". Look it up. Read the three forensic engineering reports on the disaster. For that matter, read the Corps' own report.
It is true that not everyone has a high IQ. That is why once upon a time we had usury loan regulations. We also had tighter controls on banking because as the depression taught us, greed will trump reason and depress the entire economy. Regulation is not always a punishment or a gift to the poor. It is most often a measure to protect people from human nature.
StopThePlanet, I couldn't have said it better myself.
Ralph Nader is wrong when he claims there is no discernable difference between the two major political parties in the U.S: Democrats want to regulate Corporate Entities and de-regulate Citizens by retaining and expanding our collective Civil Rights, so that we all may live Free and persue our individual dreams. Repugs want to regulate Citizens and De-regulate Corporations so they will be free to make more profits no matter the damage their products/services do to the economy, the environment, and the people of this country!
Would those who greedily bought the subprime loans - ie: supposedly financially savvy Wall St & banks - qualify as not having a high IQ? And look at the compassion immediately bestowed upon them - a great big bailout from the federal government. Make no mistake, what happened here was a serious crime. The highest level of gov.was aware of the situation. The grand plan was to repossess these homes, resell them and make another killing while pushing more people back into the still lower classes. The shock for them of course was that the houses have now lost much
considerable value. . . not to worry Uncle Fed is there.
The disgusting classist facist streak in our society is perfectly ok with this - more people down below , more for "me" , more desperate worker bees.
Unfortunately, I still see the sub-prime mortgage ads on television and on the Internet. Get a $550,000.00 mortgage for just $678.00 per month!
When I read a primer on the sub-prime mortgage market at Salon.com, I was impressed by how similar this seemed to the Savings and Loan scandals of the 1980's, and the junk-bond debacle in the 1990's.
There are the people that exploit, and the people that are exploited. The few that do go to prison for ruining many lives, and taking the life savings of hard-working citizens, spend precious few days in jail, usually just long enough to pen their new tell-all best-selling book.
Now, instead of usury laws that limit outrageous interest rates we have pay day loans and credit card companies that can make rules resembling a labyrinth. Our government reacted by enabling 301(c) nonprofits to act as intervenors with the creditors and then took that down a notch further by tightening the bankruptcy laws.
"...Do you know who handled the levee money? State and local boards."
This is not true. Levee boards, for all their venality, were NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR DESIGN, CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE OF THE NEW ORLEANS LEVEE SYSTEM! The Army Corps of Engineers is the responsible party.
phil's right in saying "The Army Corps of Engineers is the responsible party." The argument that Louisiana and New Orleans had been responsible for the levee money is spin that the Bush Administration has been putting out ever since the levee failures in order to abdicate federal responsibility for the flooding and assuage its own guilt in the lackluster response to the disaster and the subsequent neglect of New Orleans. And anyone who says Louisiana and New Orleans are at fault is merely saying what the Bush Administration would want them to say.
phil,
Absolutely!
C - o
Javani, Harry is absolutely right. The feds built and maintained the levees. The local levee Boards were responsible for cutting the grass and maintaining the recreational aspects of the land around Lake Ponchartrain and along the river. Blaming them for the faulty design and total failure of the levees and sea walls is like blaming the janitors for the collapse of the World Trade Center.
Mowing the levies is more important than it might sound. Keeping trees from growing into them is very important. The tree roots can compromise a levy.
"The were tricked, I'm sure none was told of what a "teaser" meant, not everyone has your intelligence or your wealth."
Oh stop being such a 'oh you poor baby', let me take care of you' weeping Willy.
(1) Anyone with a mouth could have ask "what does this mean? What will my payments be?" "Oh, it changes? To what?"
(2) I was talking with one of the waitresses here in town - early/mid 20s, no degrees.
She told me that friends of hers took out an ARM loan figuring they could sell the house for a profit before it reset.
Her comment was "that was crazy! You don't know what the payment will be, you can't plan and you can't count on being able to sell it for what you want 2 or 5 years down the road."
In short, the lenders lied to these people, pure and simple. The average shmuck doesn't know. They steered people away from government backed loans, (Countrywide employees admited they were told to do so) where the oversight wouldn't have allowed the "teaser rates" and caps are put on the maximum interest rates.The government also doesn't allow the humongous early pay-off penalities that prevent people from paying off early or refinancing for a lower or fixed rate.
George Lopez:
"FEMA is rebuilding New Orleans! Yes, that's right, FEMA! Find Every Mexican Available!"
That's NOT FEMA re-building NO, it's KBR.
BTW, those guys in uniforms 'providing security' after the government/levee failure were NOT National Guard, they were from BLACKWATER.
Failure of Government Policy closely followed by Crony Profiteering - sounds suspisciously like Iraq. Or anything else Bu$hCo does.
Glad you brought up Blackwater, Liar. The government seems to have no shortage of funds when it comes to paying out contracts worth millions of dollars to their campaign contributors. I think those "security officers" cost about a $900 per day. Why can that money not be spent to build up the police force, thereby reducing the need for private security? Oh yeah...
Not only subprime loans, but many different types of misleading mortgages. It was all part greed or ignorance of buyers, part pressure from unscrupulous lenders and realtors and a lack of government oversight. It is no surprise when industry is permitted to regulate itself.
It is as American as a hurricane: Shoot for the short term gain and worry about infrastructure later.
I've seen the news reports, New Orleans is coming back, ... except it is going to be Mexican,... not black or white.
The Mexicans are doing the work, not living in trailers and waiting for handouts and bitching at the government. Wow! Ain't that something. It is not that Mexicans are willing to do work that Americans won't do. I believe that blacks or whites would do the work for their own place to live and economic benefit. What is it. I'll tell you. Mexicans are culturally and socially united. They form by the hundreds, thousands, to help and support and train each other. They form a hammer simply by their interpersonal bonds. Blacks and whites in New Orleans may talk about their community and cultural spirit but it doesn;t exist on a scale wider than a few people.
So, whatcha gonna do about that. Day of the Dead celebrations instead of Mardi Gras.
Mexicans have the same pioneering spirit that we had in America, ,,,, maybe 70 to 100 years ago in the industrial revolution. Individuals could band together and accomplish something.
Mexicans have the same spirit the dust bowl refugees had, a sort of post pioneering spirit where a people from a "lower" more primary level of civilization come to a more developed one. Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath lives with a Mexican cast.
And just as the Californians mostly hated the Oakies, the big California/United States loves to complain about these new immigrants even though they are, as NoContest says, hard working, with great interpersonal bonds they call La Familia. The States needs to accept its immigrants and stop listening to the politically motivated haters. Maybe we could even build things with their help, things like high speed trains, like we did when 19th century visionaries built the first intercontinental tracks.
Maybe we use whites, blacks, Asians, Native Americans, and Hispanic peoples and blend our heritages and energies for something more productive, but similar to the way our splendid Armies have levelled the playing field for enlisted men and officers. Let's use rather than misuse our resources.
It was during the depression that American people felt close together and they helped each other out. I was a youngster during that time and I saw people share the little they had with those who had less. The Mexicans have strong ties to their religon and thus to their culture.
No contest..some will see your comment as racist..but..it does carry some truth..please, however, DON"T discount those brave BLACKs who have stayed in N.O..fighting..fixing their own homes..helping their neighbors when they can.. but what you say about Mexicans is true..I've not seen a harder working "class" ever...I'll see a White guy (claiming to vet a viet nam vet ..but far too young)..at the corner..with a sign..for money..they drive past ANY home depot..and see poor immigrants (yes..many illegal)..begging for WORK..not a handout..
But..back to the point of the post..yes..another crime against, primarily BLACKS..I imagine most were paying their mortgages on time.or their rent on time..when they lost everything..not because they were naive enough to sign on the dotted line..but because they lived in a place supposedly protected again hurricanes..
There IS a lot of blame the victim..but, to a degree it IS warrented..people put on blinders..out of choice..predatory loansharks or not...small print or not..it's STILL IN PRINT..
I'm sorry..we cannot bail them out...and we cannot continue to, back doorwise, bail out the Bear Stearns and Lehman's and Goldman's...
We DON'T learn..the same thing happened in the 80's with hedge funds.... to every libertarian out there...ummm..don't ya think a little more regulation of what lenders and investment bankers can do with loans is called for? I certainly do..but Bill C had Rubin (former chairman Goldman).as his Treasure Secy's..so this is NOT a one party crime..it's a corporate ownership of the Beltway crime..and I"m sick of it..
maybe a recession is what we need to "learn"..sadly..we can't deficit spend our way out of the next one thanks to W's invasion of Iraq.
We need an FDR...and Hillary is NO FDR...
You last few commenters are so out of touch. To you everything seems to be about differences, race, culture, religion... I am from a border town and what I can say is that there is little difference between Mexicans and Americans. 80% superstitious , you call it religious, misogynous, racist, homophobic, materialistic... just like Americans. What Mexicans have you seen: just the desperate illegals who will do anything for a buck, work like a mad man for minimum wage at Mc Donald’s, or work in the filthiest most dangerous mine for no benefits and low wages, or wait outside a Home Depot in hopes of working for a day for someone who is more than happy to take advantage of their position and who may not even end up paying them. Of course they are hard working, they NEED to be, you would too. The problem is in most cases we don’t need this type of worker, in so far as it empowers the greedy to take advantage of all workers. The recent disaster in the Colorado mine is a perfect example: that fat ass Murray USED illegal labor because he knew no American worker would mine in such unsafe conditions, who did that help? And Mc Donald’s as well as all other fast food places do not deserve hard workers for how they treat and pay their employees. High school kids and the like are meant for those jobs. Its all about workers rights and livable wages. You act like Mexicans are some how different, that is so racist, they are no different, as someone who has been to Mexico many times can attest, what is different is their circumstance, and it is not a humane circumstance, and the apparent joy you all seem to get from this is wholly unsettling.
You act like this is a good thing. You are half right in your assessment, but “whites” never left, they are using the Mexicans to rebuild the city. It is the African Americans who are being left out. One more city will become like the rest of the southwest: wealthy white people using illegal Mexican labor because they are not willing to pay reasonable wages. And what you find is another US city becoming the land of the halves and the halve not, usually split down the middle, whites to the north and Latinos to the south, and no place for the blacks. It is a sickening trend that has shows no sign of ending, greedy whites taking advantage of low skilled uneducated migrants.
This is pure unadulterated bullshit. There are plenty of people, black white whatever, trying to rebuild their homes and lives in New Orleans. Many don't have the resourses, because they are being screwed by their insurance companies.
I pay my homeowner's insurance every month along with my morgage. Most of my net worth is in my house and if something catastrophic happens without the insurance payout it'd be a tough slog rebuilding. This is exactly the case many folks are in. You better bet if my insurance company fucks me over I'll be at my Senator/Representatives door bitching and asking the Government to step in. What the fuck am I paying taxes for?
The Mexican/Latino people are hard working family oriented currently, but they will be assimilated soon enough. Given a few generations they'll be lazy shiftless layabouts just like you think the rest of us are.
The only lazy shiftless layabouts in NOLA is the govt and the insurence companies. The Latino/a community now populating NOLA migrated there, after, of course, folks had talked about being sure the original "refugees" could come back and work to rebuild their city. So, you're right. These Latino/as aren't dying in formyldahyde trailers that the govt knew about. Of course people should be upset with the govt! It's the federal govt who didn't keep the levees strong or protect the coast.
NoContest, did you have this same "righteous" anger when money was being doled out to Florida for its hurricane recoveries? Floridians didn't have to complain about the govt because the govt couldn't move fast enough to help them out.
I am sick and tired of this "blame the victim" mentality when it comes to lower middle class Americans and African Americans. The engine that ran the industrial revolution was slavery on sugar cane, cotton, and rice plantations.
And during Clinton's administration, there were laws against predator loans. If it were just the poor and minorities who were dumb enough to trust their state licensed brokers, then why every commercial I see about people who mistakingly took a "teaser rate" has a skinny, middle class white woman?
I disagree with the notion that the govt should be small and stay out of people's business. But, if that's where you stand, you can't justify the govt ripping people off.
While you raise excellent points, there is a bit of "blame the victim" in the way you describe subprime borrowers. Let's say you've been dropped by your insurance company for the crime of actually getting sick, you can't work for a short period of time while you recuperate from a radical mastectomy, and your credit cards are maxed out with medical bills and groceries for your family. With a "subprime" credit rating, the only way to access the equity you've worked so hard to build up in your home is a subprime loan (Other than selling). The bankruptcy bill blocked the only other way out for people in this sort of position. This happened to a close relative of mine, their family lost their house. Caveat Emptor? Sure, but a little compassion would be nice as well.
Mention of the "Military-Industrial Complex" as reason for the Iraq War and the atrocities being done for its survival seems tough for even Huffpost to digest. Thus I am putting this item in the blogs for all to see:
Whistleblowers on Fraud in Iraq Facing Penalties
http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/24/ap4052736.html
Sorry if it not directly pertinent to this item. But you have got to read it!
I read it somewhere else. MSNBC/Newsweek, I think? It is tough. I'm not sure if Huffpost has the servers and whatnot to contain the outrage the will definitely spew out, even from who'd usually agree wholesale with Shearer's article.
I agree, it's a MUST read.
I admire Ms. Greenhouse and people like her. Governance is palpably more politicized now than in the recent past...at all levels.
Spot on - 'compassion' like this -
isrealinsider 04/05/05:
Peres to ask U.S. for pullout funding, Sharon to meet with settlers on deal
Israel will ask the United States for money to help with the Gaza withdrawal, Israeli Vice Premier Shimon Peres said Tuesday, ahead of a trip to Washington.
Peres spoke as Gaza settlers sought higher compensation for their homes and demanded to be moved to Israel as a group -- a sign that many have resigned themselves to the pullout, after initially threatening a fight to the finish. Settler leaders were to meet with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon later Tuesday to discuss compensation and resettlement, ending months of angry silence.
Sharon agrees in principle to a proposal to move most Gaza settlers as a group to the Nitzanim coastal area, between the towns of Ashkelon and Ashdod, just a few miles from their current homes, a senior Israeli official said. Sharon was expected to tour the Nitzanim area in coming days.
In a meeting with Cabinet ministers and senior government officials involved in the withdrawal, an angry Sharon demanded quicker action. He urged officials to cut through red tape, participants said.
The government, meanwhile, approved the first compensation deal with a settler family, saying the first check would be signed by weeks-end, after a committee on Monday reviewed the first eight compensation claims. So far, about 60 out of 1,600 settler families have reached tentative agreement with the government to leave voluntarily this summer, in exchange for compensation..
Hours before leaving for Washington, Peres refused to say how much money Israel is seeking from the United States. Peres is to meet Vice President Dick Cheney and other Bush administration officials to discuss the planned withdrawal from Gaza and four West Bank settlements. Sharon is to meet with Bush next week.
One official close to the Bush administration said there are expectations in Washington that Israel would request $500 million in aid.
Peres told The Associated Press on Tuesday that "I think, the United States has already allocated money, and we want to coordinate our efforts."
This is similar to what is happening to us. We've been eaten alive by huge medical bills, even though the person who is sick has medical insurance. We maxed out credit cards and home equity trying to ensure we could continue to pay for needed treatment and procedures, and now, we can't afford the pay our huge mortgage. I understand that we don't have a "right" to own a home, but the way everything happened still feels so wrong.
It feels wrong because it IS wrong. You've done everything right. You shouldn't be at risk of losing your home.
signed
Bleeding Heart Liberal
CD,
I understand. Essentially the same happened to me, and there are animals that live better than I do now.
My fault. After working since I was 8, and on the books for 35 years, now that I'm of little use to those in power, why BOTHER taking care of me? (ZERO disability, or ANY govt. benefits. Some LTD insurance.)
Good luck, friend. If you can, hold on TIGHT to love.
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