Cracking the Autism Riddle: "Vaccine Theory" Fades as a New Idea Emerges

This is the first post in a series of three about autism and vaccines.

If a foreign government were suspected of doing something that caused brain problems to 1/166 American children our nation would immediately and vigorously respond...and even go to war! Well, our children are under a mysterious assault that is causing 1/166 to develop autism. And, we must band together and immediately and vigorously make the correction of this problem a true national priority.

As part of our national wake-up call, April was designated National Autism Awareness month and the press repeatedly aired an impassioned debate: Are vaccines a boon or a danger? Do shots protect kids or provoke autism? Unfortunately, all too often the media discussion was highly polarized...creating lots of heat, but shedding little light.

In this 3-part blog, I'd like to discuss in detail the reasons why shots are very safe - and super important - and to present some fresh ideas about a more likely cause of autism: an invisible soup of toxins we're exposed to every day...endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs).

* For more than 10 years, a steady chorus has accused vaccines of causing the autism outbreak: "Shots have too many ingredients." "Too many shots are given together." Some people think the connection is proven because baby shots have increased in number as the autism has increased in frequency.

The rise in autism is scary and all reasonable people should be desperate to solve this mystery. But, is the fact that we give more vaccines proof that they trigger the disorder...or is it a terrible coincidence?

History is filled with good guesses that just fell flat. For example, five years ago, many were convinced that mercury in vaccines was the autism culprit. It was a fair hunch...but ended up wrong. In 2002, over 95% of vaccine mercury was removed. Yet, instead of plummeting autism rates zoomed even higher!

Another popular hunch was that the MMR shot (measles, mumps, rubella) caused autism. But a huge Danish study (examining hundreds of thousands of children) found that kids skipping the MMR had the same exact risk of getting autism as those who were immunized. A Japanese study also showed zero difference between MMR getters and skippers (no benefit was seen even when the MMR was split into separate shots).

To date, dozens of studies -- examining over 1 million children -- have failed to find any credible association between shots and autism...none!

Yet, speculation that shots cause autism continues to stick in parents' minds. Why? One big reason is because we have all heard reports of kids suddenly "got" autism just a week or two after shots.

In fact, one of the scariest characteristics of autism is that it can suddenly afflict a child who seems developmentally normal. But, is it possible that this sudden problem right after shots is just a coincidence? Absolutely, yes! Every day, serious and amazing things occur, purely by chance. Think of it this way, in a large country like the US, a one-in-a-million coincidence happens 300 times a day.

Approximately 24,000 children are diagnosed with autism every year and in about 1/3 of those cases (8000/year...150/w) normally developing kids show abrupt deterioration (so called "regressive" autism). Regression usually appears between a child's 1st and 3rd birthdays, a period during which they get shots 4 separate times. Do the calculations and you quickly realize that, every year, over 600 children will spiral into autism during the four 1-week periods that follow these 4 shot visits... just by pure, utter, random chance.

Such a high chance of coincidence means that a parent who hears about 4-5 toddlers (or even 4-500 toddlers) who worsen after shots may easily be fooled into assuming that the cause of the autism was the shots...but they would be jumping to a totally false conclusion.

Scientists have carefully investigated sudden developmental deterioration and have repeatedly shown that there's no link with vaccines. For example, University of Michigan scientists analyzed 351 children with autism (1/2 with the regressive form). They noted the average age for regression was 19 months and they found no correlation to when vaccines were given.

Perhaps, the primary reason parents have been so open to the vaccine avoiders' unfounded claims is the current "science vacuum." For years, government and organized medicine have reacted to the autism explosion with horribly lethargy. As a result, we lack good answers to many pressing questions. This vacuum has allowed the cold wind of speculation to spread doubt and fear through our hearts.

So many parents have become paralyzed with indecision because of this debate that they've lost track of the fact that shots have saved millions of children (and adults) from disease, deformity, disability and death:

• In the 1930's, whooping cough's painful strangulation was epidemic -- in the 1940's the vaccine became widely used - by the 1950's whooping cough was uncommon.

• In the 1940's, paralytic polio terrorized every family -- in the 1950's the vaccine became widely used - by the 1960's polio was almost eradicated.

• In the 1950's, measles caused thousands to suffer pneumonia, encephalitis and death in the 1960's the vaccine became widely used -- by the 1970's measles was rare.

• In the 1960's, rubella was a common cause of stillbirth, deafness and mental retardation -- in the 1970's the vaccine became widely used -- by the 1980's birth defects from rubella had vanished.

• In the 1970's, H flu meningitis and epiglottitis were seen every day across America -- in the 1980's the vaccine became widely used -- by the1990's deadly H flu was close to eliminated.

And similar stories can be told for shots against pneumonia, chicken pox, Hepatitis B, mumps, etc.

In fact, shots are so important that even the most vocal vaccine avoiders swear they're not "anti-vaccine." Unfortunately, their actions make a travesty of their words. With alarming websites and a relentless, multiyear, media blitz they have single-handedly unleashed a huge vaccine backlash. They've shredded decades of public health investment and triggered a surge of "shot-phobia" that threatens to add epidemics of infection to the tragic rise of autism that already weighs so heavily on children and families.

The coming danger of this anti-vaccine campaign is seen all across the county. Doctors daily encounter fearful parents doubting the safety of vaccines. The New England Journal of Medicine reports a doubling and tripling of parents getting vaccine waivers for their children. The LA Times found that over 50% of children in some schools had asked for exemptions to avoid all vaccines.

This is of grave concern because disease outbreaks can start when as few as 5% of kids in a community skip shots. Recent Colorado studies found that children who delayed shots were 6-23 times more likely to get whooping cough and 22 times more likely to get measles. And, many more may fall seriously ill if this trend continues.

Parents who sidestep vaccines may do so because diseases like polio and whooping cough are so uncommon. But, the great irony is that the only reason these killers have become so uncommon...is because other moms get their kids immunized.

In my next blog, I'll respond to 4 more of the standard arguments of vaccine avoiders (3 flawed...and 1 reasonable). Then, in the final part in this series, I'll discuss the increasingly scary possibility that autism is triggered by a common chemical exposure.

Comments

[DonCosenza]

You expect us to accept the judgment of a pediatrician at UCLA over that of a television celebrity and former Playboy centerfold? What do you take us for, intelligent people?!

[Pyrum]

Keep in mind "well baby" visits are a pediatrician's bread and butter. It's unlikely a pediatrician is going to be objective when it comes to vaccination because a widespread belief vaccinations aren't as safe and effective as they're touted to be could threaten his ot her livelihood. Other people can afford to be objective.

[DonCosenza]

Thanks for proving my point.

[Pyrum]

I'll take that to mean you consider me to be unintelligent. Suit yourself, but remember, if you really want to know what's going on, follow the money trail...

[MNmommy]

Not a lot of money in the vaccine biz in the US for pediatricians. Well baby visits are much more about checking on development than the jabs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042702631.html

[Pyrum]

Well baby visits keep the customers coming back. How many parents would cooperate if it weren't for the shots? Parents have eyes and can evaluate better than any doctor how their children are developing.

[MNmommy]

"Parents have eyes and can evaluate better than any doctor how their children are developing."

Except the ones that fail to notice autsim and/or other disorders, early on. What is tell-tale to a pediatrician is often missed by parents in that blush of love that they feel for their babies.

[Principaldad]

Like a certain model who mistakes signs of her child's autism for their being a "crystaI child".

[Principaldad]

"Well baby visits keep the customers coming back."

Doctors aren't WaIMart. They have a limited amount of resources. Every pediatrician I have ever seen has been so overloaded with patients that it is hard to even get in to see them. A few bucks for adminstering a vaccine is chicken feed (some even lose money on vaccines).

[calamityjohn]

Any industry that donates $166,100,653 to politicians since 1990 and peddles its money and connections like a web through academia and government deserves to be consistently doubted ... and certainly brings into question the impartiality and objective nature of its "science" and should expect a reduction in public trust.

Reducing the people concerned to "a television celebrity and former Playboy centerfold" is certainly not an accurate statement.

[eXcommunicate]

THANK YOU HUFFPO. FINALLY. An article like this has been a long time coming on this site.

[DMW1]

My young son was frequently in the hospital for asthma attacks until a specialist prescribed several drugs (Advair and others) to be taken multiple times per day. After a several months we saw an item on CNN regarding a link between long term use of these drugs and early death (late teens - early twenties).

My husband and I spent months researching this with our family doctor (a general practitioner). We learned that most medical schools receive funding from pharmaceutical companies. Most drug studies in the US are tied to pharmaceutical companies. Members of the FDA advisory committee that approves drugs have financial ties to pharmaceutical companies.

We researched asthma and natural remedies. Under our doctor's supervision, we took our son off all his daily medications and had him drink at least 6 glasses of water per day and switched from dairy to soy milk.

The result? He hasn't had an asthma attack in more than two years. We keep his inhaler on hand in case he experiences severe wheezing, but use it once every few months now instead of daily. And this is a VERY active boy who was the leading football player for his class and is the first 9 year old to make his baseball league's All Star team.

My advice? Do your own research, look at U.S. drug studies with a critical eye regardless of the "scientific results", and find a doctor with common sense that will assist you in finding natural remedies when possible.

[DonCosenza]

And sometimes... go to prison when your baby dies from an infection brought on from severe eczema.

Nothing wrong with staying informed, but "natural remedies" are not always all they're chalked to be.

[Pyrum]

Huh? Natural remedies and alternative health care can also be a godsend. In 1999, when I was diagnosed with epilepsy, I told the neurologist he could keep his medications and I would find another way, and I did. Now it's 2009, and I've been 100% seizure free for more than five years, with no medication whatsoever.

[Whatevah]

Thanks for yet another completely worthless anecdote. Now, repeat after me: correlation does not prove causation.

[mofmars333]

Not all but many are.

My Great Grandmother was a believer in old remedies. I remember her doctoring me for a cold with onion, honey & a touch of whisky.

I sure felt better many times after & soon could go out to play. I was lucky to get to stay with her but my sisters weren't so lucky. She was old & couldn't take my littler sisters very often for a stay over.

I was one sick kid more than I should have been. I missed so much school, I had to repeat the first grade because of it.

Some people want to deny the true benefits of remedies & alternatives for whatever their personal reasons may be but it doesn't change the fact that many of them do work.

It's just that a lot of money can't be made from it so that's why some try so hard to discredit alternative medicine, old remedies, vitimins, & etc..

Some deniers are decent people who have been taken in & won't pay attention properly to the big picture & all the real facts coming out.

Soon, the honest ones will see the truth when everything comes out of the wash that's going on.

[Pteryxx]

*smile* That reminds me of a cure for colds which I invented for myself when I was about five. It was Ovaltine mixed in pickle juice. I reasoned, with five-year-old logic, that since real medicine tasted nasty I could create the nastiest-tasting possible drink for myself and it would fix my cold. The funny thing is, it worked. Great example of the power of the placebo effect.

Alternative medicines could possibly work; but they're generally untested, sometimes have been proven *not* to work, and sometimes have risks or dangerous side effects of their own. Herbal supplements are often adulterated or contaminated since they aren't regulated. And the alternative medicine market is huge... billions of dollars in America alone.

Just keep in mind that "alternative" doesn't automatically mean pure as the driven snow.

[dugmaze]

"Alternative medicines could possibly work; but they're generally untested"

Just how many drugs and vaccines do you think are tested before they hit the market?

[sirenity]

in our countries (USA and Canada) all of them. Perfectly? of course not. Unfortunately some things slip through the cracks of perfection. That is why there are recalls (or rather, part of why there are recalls).

[rainbowblue]

What are the odds that the "huge rise" in autism is actually a "huge rise" in being able to detect autism. It's like people saying that a hundred years ago people didn't have cancer. A hundred years ago people didn't really know about cancer, nor lived long enough to really suffer its effects. (You could even shorten the know part to about 50 years ago.)

I'm not sure why people need to vilify doctors for their own bad luck. It's a gentic lottery, me I'm going to have to fight hard not to develop prostate cancer, diabetes, and high blood pressure. Unfortunately I do not have a doctor or a faceless corporation to blame if I develop one of those disorders.

Autism could be gentic, it could be environmental, or it cold be a combination of both. I doubt however its due to a vaccine considering there is no proof other than hysterical mothers telling tales of woe.

[lorenzboston]

Well said. The "rise" of autism is probably due to increased detection and knowledge. Also, autism is most definitely genetic, however, there are of course "nurture" elements as well. The brain is a very plastic thing. Twins may have nearly identical genomes, yet the genetic expression of these two individuals could come out completely different!

[crowepps]

There may be some connection to the complete disappearance of the diagnosis 'feebleminded'.

[fem56]

Sounds like parents are going to believe what they want to believe in spite of scientific evidence. I am glad my kids are in there late teens and got their shots. I have known a few people who had polio and it isn't really that much fun to live with the after effects. It also isn't fun to pass German Measles on to a pregnant woman. What the good doctor has to say makes a lot more sense. There are a tremendous amount of toxins in our environment and seems like a much more likely culprit. I understand people just want to keep their kids safe but they will get a lot farther by feeding their kids mostly organic products. I suppose living more than 1/2 mile from a freeway would help as well.

[virginia1931]

Here's the spot to read the scientific evidence-

http://fourteenstudies.org/

[MNmommy]

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=459
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/04/generation_rescue_and_fourteen_studies.php
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=451

[kwombles]

We think alike. :-)

[MNmommy]

GMTA and all that!

14 Studies dot org - scientific? Bwah!

[kwombles]

No it is emphatically not the place. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=451

[lunaticphilosopher]

There are children with autism who have never had any vaccinations. There are children of the same parents who were vaccinated and some developed autism while others did not. Many will believe what the latest celebrity cries about on TV. Many believe that this is all a conspiracy by certain companies. I suggest that examining the facts and making an informed rational decision. My children were vaccinated and they are not autistic. I see them as the rule and not the exception. It seems that in this day and age there always has to be someone to blame. Nature is no longer responsible for any defiencies in people. It is always someone elses fault. Maybe that this is a naturally occuring event and that this is just the way it is. I know it is not sexy to think that way but maybe that is how it is.

[varkle]

There is a reason that the preservative in vaccines, thimerosal, is viewed as a culprit. It contains ethyl mercury and mercury exposure has been linked to autism. Thimerosal was introduced in 1930, about the same time autism was first described. As vaccines began being administered in combination, the acceptable level of thimerosal was greatly exceeded and the incidence of autistic spectrum disorders also went from 1 in 10,000 to a startling 1 in 150. Once they realized vaccines may be responsible, the first thing congress did was grant legal immunity to pharmaceutical companies who provided vaccines. It appears the majority of studies that have since been conducted were designed to prove that vaccines are not responsible for the alarming incidence of autism in our children, not to find the real cause. Stating that autism is hereditary does not explain the drastic increase and is intentionally misleading. All coincidence?

[eXcommunicate]

"All coincidence?"

Yep.

[Pyrum]

I'll admit I'm a conspiracy theorist if you'll admit your a coincidence theorist.

[DonCosenza]

He didn't actually state that autism is hereditary.

Allow me to mention another disturbing correlation. The rates of autism have gone up precipitously since the introduction of Rock and Roll (especially Emo). Coincidence? Perhaps. But can we really afford to risk the lives of our children?!

[Kruddler]

Get your facts straight, please. Autism was first described in 1943. I get as much mercury from a can of tuna as I would in a vaccine. And the studies were designed to answer the question of whether vaccines WERE responsible. It was found that they weren't.

[Pyrum]

You're eating that can of tuna, not injecting it. That changes everything.

[Kruddler]

"You're eating that can of tuna, not injecting it. That changes everything."

It changes nothing. The same types of immune effector cells (T cells, dendritic cells etc) are involved as are the exact same mechanisms of antigen presentation via MHC class I or II (depending on the antigen). The immune system is the immune system.

[dugmaze]

Thimerosal was used in the 30's

[MNmommy]

And?

[dugmaze]

Autism came in the 40's.

[kwombles]

ADHD first began to be recognized in the 1960s. Did it just magicly spring into existence then? What about Down Syndrome? Did it exist before it was identified and labeled?

[davism97]

I'm glad you wrote this article, because it is sorely needed (judging from the user comments). Vaccine avoidance has become this paranoid hysterical phenomenom like the moonlanding-hoax believers, or UFO-ologists. I think we need a Huffpost article explaining science and how to think critically ...

[mogrammy]

The author needs to read the 14 flawed studies. You can find them at the generation Rescue website.
Where did the author get the 95 % thimerosal removed in 2002.???? Totally incorrect. Older vials in use in doctors' offices well after that date-some thru 2006. In 2004 it was added into the recommended flu vaccine for pregnanat women and babies over 6 MONTHS OF AGE.. Still remains in copious amounts in other childrens' and young adult vaccines.
MMeleck

[Principaldad]

The 95% was verified in audits of vaccine stockpiles conducted by the CDC in 2001 and 2002. By 2002 almost all of the supplies of relevant vaccines were of the thimerosal free variety. With most supplies consisting of thimerosal free versions, the rates should have fallen dramatically if vaccine thimerosal were a cause of autism.

Over time additional thimerosal free versions of vaccines were introduced. Today only a couple versions of the flu vaccine contain any measurable amounts of thimerosal. In those vaccines there are 12.5 or 25 micrograms (depending on dose size). That is not a "copious" amount. It would fit on the head of a pin. The flu vaccine is available in a completely thimerosal free version as well. The only other scheduled childhood vaccine that contains any thimerosal is one brand of the DTaP vaccine (in trace amounts).

Today, even if you include the flu vaccine that uses thimerosal, we are at pre-1960 levels of thimerosal for young children.

As for the 14 studies, people are free to read them. However, I would caution against anyone taking the biased claims that GR makes about those studies seriously.

[MNmommy]

"copious amounts"

Seriously?

Have anything to back that up?

[sirenity]

The spokesperson for generation rescue also believed her child was a 'crystal child' or some such. The generation rescue website appears to be a portal to purchase alternative treatments, from supplements to others are quite quacked up with unsafe, unethical treatments. I can not understand how we are supposed to take people seriously that quote information from a website that uses fear propaganda, conspiracy theories, discredited sources of information and unscientific treatment.

My opinion, backed by reliable sources. If you want the sources, let me know I will post them. Again.

[Lisa Sigismondi]

Guess Harvey doesn't know that when they reduced thimerasol content - they increase the aluminum. Another potent neurotoxin. Probably didn't read the studies either.
Always nice to have another doc tell us what's good for us. Especially after spending a night struggling to figure out where the funds for our next 'not covered by insurance' appointment is coming from for my two sons. (sure occupational therapists are really fringe therapy and all - it would just be nice to have my 9 year old learn to button his own jeans).

Vaccines are NOT safe - and the current schedule is the biggest reason in my opinion. I've learned that. My eldest got a VAERS listed "hot lot" Dtap at 2 months and screamed for years after. Just look at the Gardasil victims - you know, the ones that are OLD ENOUGH TO TALK and TELL US what happened to them?

Only thing that I agree about in this article is looking at EDCs too, but that concern falls far below vaccines. Dr. Karp sounds like a nice man -he really does and I'm sure he means well, my uninformed pediatricians were really nice too. The science has NOT been done so please stop telling us that it has.

[eXcommunicate]

"Always nice to have another doc tell us what's good for us."

Yeah, those crazy basta rds with degrees and facts and "knowledge." How dare they act like they know what they're talking about.

[Pyrum]

They can't afford to be objective on this issue because their income depends on "well baby" visits.

[Whatevah]

Let me get this straight: anyone who disagrees with you cares more about money than babies. That's about it, right?

The fact that all the experts who have no financial stake in this say there's no link to autism makes no difference to you, right?

Pyrum, the reason so many folks are upset with arguments like yours is because all this irrelevant chatter obfuscates the truth.

[nicholasjh1]

BS... Doctors are not conciously trying to do that according to Pyrum. But anytime they look at evidence and history their investigative process will directed towards seeing it as safe and necessary. In fact there are doctors who are more mature and have gotten beyond this and will guide you on the more necessary vaccines on a more reasonable schedule. Now their vaccinating chiken pox... frankly it's gone overboard.

[Lisa Sigismondi]

degrees, facts and knowledge LOL. Well, we all know facts and knowledge change over time don't we? I mean really - you can look at what the media allows to be printed to come to a sane conclusion on that subject.

And I guess you have never had a doctor with a degree and knowledge and facts totally screw up and espouse bogus info based on what they read in the bought and paid for journals? A year before the first of my sons was diagnosed with autism - my doc swore that thimerasol had been removed from all vaccines in 2000 (completely incorrect, though it has been reduced greatly, once the old ones expired that is)- right before we all got our still fully thimerasol laden flu shots.

Fact is - doctors are not gods and they can't read everything either. I'm not mad at the docs so much as the industry that is looking out for their bottom line first and foremost. I did everything the docs told me - now 2 out of my 3 kids are suffering greatly. And our entire family does too.

Believe me, if someday it comes out that making your kids eat broccoli is the real reason behind autism - I will be ecstatic. I would love to have the guilt lifted - based on what I saw in my sons, their issues started immediately after vaccination. And I'm the one that held them down for each of their shots.

Broccoli however,

[kwombles]

You bear no guilt in your children's autism. None. Even if it were entirely genetic in origin, you would still bear NO guilt. None. I want you to understand that autism is not your fault. It is what it is and wasting your time, energy, and emotions on guilt over something you could not have prevented and was beyond your control is just that: a waste.

Thimerosal is not implicated in autism. In addition, Wakefield's study concerning the MMR (thimerosal is not in the MMR) was thoroughly debunked. No reputable and replicated studies have found a link between autism and vaccination.

I have three children, all on the spectrum. My oldest will be 20 this year. I learned long ago that blame and guilt get in the way of the present and preparing for the future. And in the way of appreciating my children for who they are.

[MNmommy]

Not to *up* on vaccines and their ingredients are you? Thimerasol is a preservative, aluminum is an adjuvant.

[Lisa Sigismondi]

sure, this is vaccine 101, and your point is?

mine is that they decreased one known neurotoxin and increased another. Hmmm...Now why would they do that?

[Principaldad]

Do you have any credible proof that aluminum content has increase?

Aluminum and thimerosal serve completely different purposes. There would be no reason to increase aluminum in conjunction with the removal of thimerosal. Considering this I would like to know if the claim is true. It sounds like more disinformation put out by antivax sites.

Also, aluminum is incredibly abundant. People, including infants, are under constant exposure. Children get more aluminum from infant formula, and even breastmilk, than they do from vaccines.

Finally, the idea that thimerosal and aluminum would have exact same effect is completely illogical.

[lorenzboston]

As an autism researcher, it's nice to see the easily falsifiable idea of vaccines causing autism finally starting to fade away. UNFORTUNATELY, more environmen­tally-base­d conspiracy theories that are completely unfounded in real science emerge in its place.

Autism is a genetic neurological disorder. If vaccines or some other chemical are indeed the cause, then how do you explain the consistent trend of boys being diagnosed with ASD 5-to-1? More and more evidence points toward certain genetic markers as explanation for autistic behavior.

Here's to hoping we stop traveling down rabbit trails that only lead to dead ends and start finding answers down the path of actual scientific evidence. No, it's not as sexy, but it will make an amazing impact on countless lives.

[virginia1931]

Hello lorenzboston-

You must be in the genetic research field -- because there is no other reason to endorse gene research )and no evidence of genes causing autism in YEARS of wasting our money looking)

amazing impact? just in your wallet you mean -------

[kwombles]

That is completely incorrect. I recommend you consult The Neurology of Autism, The Neurobiology of Autism, and the Handbook of Autism and Pervasive Developmental Disorders; you'll have about 2000 pages of reading ahead of you, but it will amply demonstrate what is known about the genetic involvement. Genetic doesn't necessarily mean inherited. Perhaps you are conflating the two.

[nicholasjh1]

Right, but lorenzboston is trying to claim it's only genetic... what makes it so hard to believe that it would be both genetic and environmental... I think virginia has a point.

[kwombles]

Genes and environment interact. The two really can not be separated.

[Lisa Sigismondi]

well i would say you're not much of a researcher if you don't know why boys are more affected. try reading some research on the subject. there's plenty if you bother to look.

[Principaldad]

Please share with us your wealth of information about why boys are more affected. Seriously, I would like to read it.

Physiological reactions to "toxins" are generally the same for males and females. If vaccines were the cause, one would expect similar response in both genders.

[kwombles]

Yes, I for one will be very interested to see what she brings to the table since she agrees with Moffie's holocaust equation.

[diggs]

In NJ, it's 1 in 94 children. Way different than the national average.

[DonCosenza]

And this is why we must wipe out NJ.

[Whatevah]

Well, it's one of the reasons. There are others. But I digress.

[CrankyGal]

It's higher in Jersey because we have some of the best autism services in the country. Lots of people move here to take advantage of this.

I personally know a couple with two autistic kids who moved here from NY for this reason.

[Whatevah]

It was just a joke. We all realize that NJ is a fine place. Just a joke.

[mofmars333]

I have terrible memories of being vaccinated when I was a toddler. I ran out and hid when they tried to jab me.

I remember running down a corridor & hiding under a desk in a hall.

I watched feet, for who knows how long, before they found me. I just knew it was bad. They shot my doll & Dad, then me as I screamed.

Years later in grade school we were lined up. I vividly remember the morbid feeling of doom, as I looked at the faces of all the other children around me.

A doctor & nurses in white coats lined us up. It seems to me now, looking back as that child, it was similar to the fear that must have been in the hearts of holocaust victims, as they were lined up.

I just knew something evil was going on, even as a child.

[mofmars333]

Then my husband who was six years older, has his story where he tricked them into marking he'd received his up to date shots when he didn't.

This man who was my husband & best friend, now, has never even had common colds or any sick days I can remember in the 30 some years we lived together. The only time he ever had to use his insurance was for a hemorrhoid operation due to his stupidity of going over a small water fall in a raft.

His medical record will show the healthy life he's had & without his vaccinations being complete.

Mother nature gave us incredible immune systems & we've allowed them to be compromised, big time. The evidence is in & mounting.

We will soon get to the bottom of the truth because many knowledgable & influential people are finally paying attention.

[naturalcynic]

"Mother nature gave us incredible immune systems & we've allowed them to be compromised, big time. The evidence is in & mounting."

Tell that to the 90% of Native American population that was wiped out in a few decades in the 16th century fom smallpox and measles. Tell that to more than half of the Hawaiians who died in a measles epidemic. Tell that to the 1 in 3 in Europe that died from the plague.

The ignorance and wishful thinking is mounting.

[mofmars333]

If you choose to believe in fairy tales history recorded that's your right. I believe the other side of the story. I plan to post facts on dubunking vaccinations preventing disease, soon.

The reports that they do are made up. So post the links & sources of those reports that back up what you say, if you can, before I get time to locate the correct articles that point to the true facts.

Whn I see that information, I'll be sure to follow with what I believe to be the real truth.

[eXcommunicate]

LOL.... You really are deluded, aren't you?

[Kruddler]

You wouldn't believe how long our discussions with mofmars have been going on in other threads, eXcommunicate. Sigh. Hi moffie! Ready to start again??

[Lisa Sigismondi]

naturalcynic - you are hilarious!
and who were these terrible diseases introduced by? invading people into isolated socities in each case. Oh Europe was rats but you digressed. Pretty sure we have better sanitation by now.

[Principaldad]

Your comment doesn't make sense.

Naturalcynic was responding to the claim that we have these incredible immune systems that are capable of dealing with disease. In fact, our immune systems regularly fail when invaded by a pathogen. Naturalcynic posted a few extreme examples that illustrated it well. The reasons for infection in those cases are irrelevant. What is relevant is that the immune systems in those cases were not equipped to deal with the disease. There are plenty of other examples to choose from.

[sirenity]

Can you explain why these stories, which are not verifiable, should take precedence over documented studies based on fact?

[kwombles]

You realize you make it sound like you were being shot? "They shot my doll & Dad, then me as I screamed."

Your posts are rampant emotionalism, histrionics and blatant fear-mongering. Holocaust victims? Are you kidding me? You're equating vaccination with 6 million people being systematically exterminated? That's where you are going with this? Are you sure you want to do that? Really? You want to go that far? You don't consider that a bit much?

[mofmars333]

I was equating the fear factor. Please don't twist & spin my words.

[kwombles]

They are your words. I don't need to spin it. You equated vaccination with the holocaust and being shot. Really no other way to take it. Have a friend or family member there read the post and ask them for an honest opinion. Then find someone who is Jewish and ask them how it reads. Then consider this, if the science is on your side saying vaccines are unsafe and more dangerous than the diseases they protect against, simply provide that evidence.

Scientific evidence will ultimately take the field and win the day, regardless of what someone wants it to say.

[Whatevah]

He's right, mofmars333. Your words are not the kind used by someone who cares more about facts than feelings.

[Lisa Sigismondi]

actually, she said it just right. God knows my kids remember their shots and fevers and illnesses that followed. Screw vaccines. I was a good mom and lined them up on time for every one. Insanity, I get it now.

[kwombles]

Well, Moffie certainly needed a team member. You obviously would qualify to play on her team.

Vaccinations in no way equate to being shot or to being systematically exterminated.

Your response is nearly as out of line as hers.

[mofmars333]

Thanks, Lisa.

I was challenged closer to the front of this list where one tries to make a big deal out of this & twist my words when it was really the fear factor, I was comparing.

[kwombles]

Saying you are equating the fear factor is just as bad. I'm pretty sure there's a huge difference in the fear factor, too.

[DonCosenza]

Of course, had you not been vaccinated and contracted measles, mumps, rubella, polio, or any of those other diseases, you might not be around (or might be too disabled) to write your memories on here.

[Pyrum]

Oh give me a break. I had rubella, mumps and chicken pox as a child and that was no big deal. I now also have lifetime immunity to those diseases, which is something vaccinations can not impart unless one keeps up with boosters for life, and who does that?

[Kruddler]

You have a 20% chance of the zoster (shingles) form of Varicella showing up at some stage in your life- as a herpes virus, it stays latent along your nervous system. And these diseases may not have been a big deal for you, but what if you'd passed rubella to a pregnant mother? Or mumps to a mature-aged man? Or any of these to some-one immunocompromised? It's not all about you, you know...

[Pyrum]

Shingles is also a risk to people who get the chicken pox vaccine, because it's made from the same virus.

The chances I could've passed anything to a pregnant mother or a middle aged man were extremely remote. Back then, everyone got their got their childhood diseases out of the way when they were supposed to, as children. And immunocompromised conditions were almost unheard of. Those have increased with the greater use of vaccinations, as the shots weaken instead of strengthen the immune system.

[Whatevah]

Bunk. Your facts are totally wrong, Pyrum. Again.

Wherever you get your information is obviously a very unreliable source. You should seek advice on how to find more reliable news.

[Kruddler]

The virus found in the vaccine is attenuated so it can't replicate. Therefore....no shingles. And there are plently of immunocompromised people around these days.

[DonCosenza]

When did that polio clear up?

[Pyrum]

When did I claim I had polio?

[MNmommy]

How dare you. Today? Really? Are you aware what happened today in DC?

Your insensitivity knows absolutely no bounds.

[Whatevah]

So you were an alarmist who got scared for no reason even as a toddler? Amazing.

Is this kind of "logic" genetic, or it it caused by something in the environment?

Perhaps overexposure to quack medicine explains this kind of wackyness.

[etcetc]

When it comes to vaccines, there needs to be more reasonableness on the part of the people giving them. Don't push Hep B on newborns. They don't need it until they are a few months old. and go to the 12 shot regimen I had hen I was a kids ( I am 31), instead of the CRAZY 36 schedule these days.

If you can't see that there are 36 vaccines now instead of the old 12, just to make phara BIG money, you are nuts.

I was offered the Gardasil vaccine too recently. I am a 31year old woman, who is married. Why in the world would I need that? At this point in my life I either have HPV, or I am NOT going to get it.

[kassandranobody]

Why is it that home schooled children- who don't get vaccinated - don't become autistic?

[jneems]

Also the Amish.

[James Carthew]

The entire point the poster is trying to make is that Autism isn't caused by vaccines. Rather they are caused by the use of Plastics. specifically Endocrine inhibitor releasing plastics. Basically you're causing your child brain damage every time you heat milk in the microwave in a plastic bottle to feed them. It's easy enough to avoid. Use glass bottles. Home schoolers are usually a bit less mainstream in their habits, and the Amish are probably less likely to use plastics. Heck the Amish wouldn't be using plastics at all because plastic was invented after their social system was setup. It is an interesting piece of research and would certainly explain the rise of Autism/ADHD in recent years. As traditional family units have broken down people have moved towards convenience in the form of microwaves and plastic food containers. Stuff like plastic water bottles can also increase the ammount of these inhibitors that are consumed.

[Kruddler]

That's been my theory for years. So much more sensible.

[naturalcynic]

Wrong. There are amish with autism. Your less-than-intrepid anti-vax reporter just didn't look very hard. And some of the amish do get vaccinated, and there is no difference in the prevalence of autism between groups.

[virginia1931]

please post your source of data on "no difference in the prevalence of autism between groups."

PS- Dan Olmsted will be getting a pulitzer as you search the "help wanted"- science jobs.......

[MNmommy]

Dan Olmsted & Pulitzer do not belong anywhere near each other.

Incredibly laughable.

[Principaldad]

The thought is absolutely hilarious. You don't get a pulitzer by making outrageous claims that you don't check out and then have to back off of and keep restating.

[kwombles]

And the autism/vaccine link folks are the nicest, most reasonable people in the world who use science to patiently and calmly explain why their hypothesis concerning autism and vaccines (specifically what it was, which vaccine, and how it triggered it) to those of us who are simply deluded by believing the currently available science provided to us by scientists the autism/vaccine link people assure us have been paid to provide.

[Principaldad]

"please post your source of data on no difference in the prevalence of autism between groups."

By your failure to mention the rest of naturalcynic's post, it is apparent that you realize that his/her other statements about Olmsted are true. Olmsted did not look very hard. There are plenty of autistic Amish. And, plenty of them get vaccinated.

Olmsted is a bumbling fool who can't check his sources. His whole concept that the autism rates among Amish can be directly compared to the general population is ignorant. There are genetic diseases among the Amish that are far more common than in the general population. It stands to reason that the autism rates would be different.

[Rileysmom1204]

"naturalcynic" I actually live in Amish country. Have a few Amish friends. The Amish do not vaccinate. It goes against their believe in God to interfere with "His" plan. YOU are wrong. The Amish that are vaccinated are adopted from the English. Yes, Amish adopt English children and those children have at the very least received their Hep B shot. So where did you look "very hard" for your information? Because as far as I can tell the Amish don't POST much of their private lives on the internet. I can tell you I have first hand knowledge of whether the Amish vacciante or not.

[MNmommy]

Poor Dan, he got it wrong...

http://autism.about.com/b/2008/04/23/do-the-amish-vaccinate-indeed-they-do-and-their-autism-rates-may-be-lower.htm

[kwombles]

What is with the need for folks on the autism/vaccine link side to globalize and think one or two people they know are representative of the whole? First hand knowledge is not statistically representative. A sample of one, two, or ten cannot tell us about an entire population.

[mofmars333]

My son had Amish friends & knows this is the way as you say.

[Lisa Sigismondi]

now, now. don't you include the kids that were vaccinated before adoption in PA.
there certainly is a difference - and don't lump all Amish in one pile either - some DO vaccinate.

[Principaldad]

There are actually many documented cases of autism among the Amish. Olmsted has even modified his claims multiple times because new information keeps coming out that shows his original claims were wrong.

Plus, the person to which you were replying clearly stated that some Amish vaccinate, so your comment about that doesn't make sense.