Cracking The Autism Riddle: Common Sense About Vaccines And Autism
All sorts of arguments are thrown around to persuade parents that shots threaten their children with autism. I'd like to discuss 4 of the commonly repeated concerns, 3 flawed...and 1 that I think has merit.
1) Too many shots can overwhelm a child and cause autism. No!
Babies get more vaccines today than 30 years ago, but if you think that means more things are injected into their young bodies...you'd be wrong! That's because immunizations today are much more purified than those of the past.
For example, in 1980, the DPT shot (Diphtheria/Pertussis/Tetanus) was made from a soup of blendarized bacteria (over 1000 different illness particles - antigens - all mixed together). And, the polio vaccine had live virus that actually protected children by triggering a minute case of...polio! Today, our modern DPT vaccine is highly purified, containing only 3-5 bacterial antigens and the polio shot has absolutely no live virus.
Actually, the current trend to give kids more shots is a win-win for them. They win because they're protected from many more illnesses and because they have fewer antigens put into their bodies.
But, some still worry, "Can too many shots overwhelm a baby's immature immune system?" That idea is pretty close to a baby urban legend.
The immune system is a superb multitasking, fighting machine. Every day, babies are bombarded by thousands of threats: irritating pollen; colonic microbes; bacterial invaders from the skin, eyes, nose, mouth; viral swarms; offending dietary proteins; damaged cells; even tiny, little cancers. The immune system's magnificent ability to protect against many, mild attacks at one time is exactly why most babies tolerate several shots at once with no reaction whatsoever. (In fact, a new theory suggests that allergies and asthma may be on the rise in part because we have made the world so clean it doesn't exercise a baby's immune system enough!)
2) Shots hurt the brains of extra-sensitive children. No!
Each of us has special sensitivities. Some have peanut allergies...some get lots of strep throat....and a very, very few get serious reactions to vaccines. I wish we had a test to detect which infants are susceptible to severe measles or big vaccine reactions, but no such test exists.
The good news, however, is that shot risks are tiny compared to the risks of full-blown illness. For example, influenza and chicken pox hammer the immune system 100-1000 times harder than the impact of the flu or pox vaccines. While most kids breeze through the chicken pox shot, even a mild case of real pox can weaken a child's immunity for weeks to months and lead to ear infections, pneumonia and, rarely, toxic shock syndrome. (And, it can often land an adult in the hospital!)
There is one special case of possible vaccine susceptibility that made headlines last year and became a major new focus for those who claim vaccines cause autism. A 19-month-old child developed autism after getting 5 shots. But - and this is a huge "but" - unlike most autistic kids, this one child also has a rare medical problem - Mitochondrial Disease (MD).
Recently, vaccine avoiders have floated the theory that perhaps many healthy looking kids have hidden MD. They suggest that it may be the combination of vaccines plus hidden MD that is triggering autism in so many seemingly normal children.
But, the research suggests that this is unlikely to affect more than a handful of kids. Here's why:
MD is rare (1 in 5-10,000 children). A Portuguese study found ~93% of autistic children had no evidence of MD (and even that 7% figure has yet to be confirmed). In a recent study, scientists from Harvard and Johns Hopkins could find only 25 children with both MD and autism. And, these kids had serious problems rarely seen in most cases of autism (like, delayed walking, acid reflux, liver disorder, severe fatigue, etc).
Fourteen of these kids seemed to be developing normally then suddenly deteriorated into autism during toddlerhood. But only 1/14 (7%) got worse right after shots. (Had 2 or 3 or 5 kids gotten worse after the shots, one could make the argument that children with MD are at increased risk for getting autism after vaccinations. However, as I mentioned in part 1 of this blog, 7% is very close to the number of cases one would expect to be diagnosed right after shots...just by chance.)
Another dramatic finding of this study argues against a link between MD and the national rise in autism incidence: classic autism spectrum disorder affects many more boys than girls (3-9 times more boys!)...but children with Mitochondrial Disease + autism are evenly split between the genders.
While it remains to be proven that children with MD are more vulnerable to shots, there is no doubt that they are super-vulnerable to illness. In other words, MD kids who skip shots can get very sick, very fast it they catch a vaccine preventable disease like influenza or pneumonia.
3) Doctors push risky shots on children to make more money. Please!
This accusation is as appalling as it is ridiculous. Pediatricians labor through 23 years of education; wake at all hours to help worried parents; and desert our own families on weekends and holidays to rush to the hospital to care for sick babies.
In fact, a greedy doctor wanting more money would actually discourage parents from giving their children shots...not encourage it! Why? Because doctors make more money caring for sick kids - needing repeat office visits - than caring for the well.
In truth, the only reason doctors cajole, beg and pressure parents to immunize their children is because we want to protect them - and other children - from the pain and suffering of preventable infections.
I agree that there are too many ties between doctors and big pharmaceutical companies. This must be stopped because it creates the appearance of conflict of interest and the real potential of collusion. However, the record of organized medicine is reassuring. Over the past 30 years, doctors have rejected many vaccines when concerns arose that they were not effective enough or caused unacceptable side effects.
4) Shots can be delayed. MAYBE...but only those risking your child's health.
This is one of the most critical issues facing parents: Are shots a personal choice or a civic duty?
As a pediatrician, I recommend all vaccines, but I suggest parents think of shots as falling into 2 different groups: 1) those given primarily to protect your child, 2) those protecting your child and your neighbors' children.
The first group of shots stops infections like, influenza, rotavirus, hepatitis A, chicken pox and hepatitis B. They help your child but don't give great protection to the community. That is either because the illnesses are very common (spread quickly through your neighborhood even if your child gets the shot) or hard to spread (difficult for your child to give it to others). (Note: Older kids, teens and adults are at risk for hepatitis B. It has caused thousands of cases of liver failure and cancer and so all citizens should eventually get this vaccine.)
The second group of shots stops infections that threaten your child and your community (your neighbor's baby, the elderly, chronic disease sufferers, etc.). These shots include, whooping cough, meningitis (Hib), pneumococcus (Prevnar) and measles. They miraculously halt diseases that are so contagious just one cough, one airplane flight or one germy doorknob can spread them like wildfire through your town.
I believe giving the first group of shots is a parent's personal choice because the suffering you risk is mostly limited to your child and family. Skipping the flu shot, for example, may cause your child to be one of the 36,000 Americans who die from influenza this year, but it probably won't stop a flu outbreak (although it may help to reduce it).
However, giving the second group of shots is an important civic responsibility., because delaying them creates a serious public health risk. By immunizing at least 95% of children with these shots we create "herd immunity" that can totally halt the spread of deadly epidemics in our communities. Herd immunity stymies the spread of disease the way that frequent rain keeps lightening strikes from starting raging forest fires.
Some doctors may fairly argue which vaccines should go into which groups, but the important point is that the shot schedule has some flexibility...it is not written in stone. In fact doctors have repeatedly tweaked this schedule to make it safer and more effective (for example, over the past 30 years, the measles vaccine was pushed from 9 months to 12 months...and now is recommended to be given as late as 15 months of age). However, the second group of vaccines is crucial if we are to protect children in our communities who are too young to get their own shots. Parents who skip these shots may not mean to harm others, but their action significantly increases the risk of avoidable suffering and death to innocent children.
For over 10 years, a huge amount of passion and debate about the cause of autism has focused on vaccines. But recently a totally new suspect has surfaced that warrants investigation as a potential autism trigger. In the last installment of this 3-part blog, I'll discuss the worrisome compounds known as...endocrine disrupting chemicals (EDCs).
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I certainly don't think that vaccines are a bad idea in theory. What I find odd is how so many people are ready to state unequivically that vaccines are perfectly safe for babies and perfectly safe in the schedule that we currently give them. These vaccines, while perhaps being safer than they were decades ago, still contain Neurotoxins that will undoubtedly affect the developing neurology of anyone weighing 15 pounds or less. Shouldn't we at least err on the side of caution? And yet so many are so eager to just continue on with the way things have been. Sounds a lot like the rhetoric we heard about the economy just a few months back.
On a different note, it is well documented that the ADA has used Mercury for years in unthinkably irresponsible ways, and they have squashed any dentists that protested. You have to admit that money is a strong motive for anyone in our currently for-profit system, as well as the threat of huge class-action lawsuits for these organizations and these vaccine makers.
I agree with you.
That's why I say. Do you own research and come up with your own conclusions no matter what they are.
What's "research" to you? Googling websites with no credentials? When you do "research" do you also use the National Enquirer as reference material?
Not all sources of information are equal. That's the problem with your approach.
See Harvey Karp's Profile
What is so odd here is that you tell people to do their own research..
"
In fact, shots are so important that even the most vocal vaccine avoiders swear they’re not “anti-vacc
The coming danger of this anti-vaccine campaign is seen all across the county. Doctors daily encounter fearful parents doubting the safety of vaccines. The New England Journal of Medicine reports a doubling and tripling of parents getting vaccine waivers for their children. The LA Times found that over 50% of children in some schools had asked for exemptions to avoid all vaccines.
This is of grave concern because disease outbreaks can start when as few as 5% of kids in a community skip shots. Recent Colorado studies found that children who delayed shots were 6-23 times more likely to get whooping cough and 22 times more likely to get measles. And, many more may fall seriously ill if this trend continues.
Thank you for restoring balance to the conversation.
It was getting tense in here..... : )
Most people who have taken the time to educate themselves on the risks/ benefits of vaccines know perfectly well that they are not 100% safe for all individuals. However, the side effects are significantly small and the majority of children have no reaction at all. Yes, more research should be done to ensure the safety of our children when receiving these vaccines, but in the mean time, I feel better knowing that my child is being protected against diseases that have truly horrible consequences.
More research *is* ongoing into the safety of vaccines.
"I feel better knowing that my child is being protected against diseases that have truly horrible consequenc
I agree 100%
please explain gardisil then. americans with their blind faith cant fathom the thought of anyone being untrue.
and for the 'expert" claim. thats a joke. any so called expert in their field will walk into a court of law and take two different opinions depending on who's payin them that day!
experts are humans. and humans arent perfect
they are flawed morally like the rest of us humans.
im a expert liar, does that mean what i say is the truth, or a lie? remember im an expert!
Unless you have a child with autism you don't have a clue, what it's like and yes flavor has said all those things in your article and will continue to say them, not you are anyone else can say what happened to our son. Once again, I will state to parents check your immunization records and compare them with what your child has to take today. It is amazing, some of the immunizations you can't even pronounce my ten year old and my 5year old will have to take in their school age over 30 immunization shots (amazing). My two year old went in to get his first immunizations and he was clearly speaking and playing and within a 24 hour period after given his immunization, he had a fever and no more communication as well as no more eye contact and the doctor he had then stated something with wrong(duh). I am a fighter, especially when it comes to my little one and I will fight on this one until I take my last breath. We are growing on this one, parents are getting involved and are doing their research and asking questions. I trust no man, anything made by man has a very good chance of failure, autism is growing at a rapid rate especially in our boys. We never had to take as many immunizations as they do today, the question is why so many shots today?
"We never had to take as many immunizations as they do today, the question is why so many shots today?"
It simply due to advanced in medical science; we can prevent more diseases today than previously. why would that be a bad thing? would you want your child to get meningitis for example?. The shots we give to day contain many, many times less antigenic material than the lesser schedules of the previous decades.
"Unless you have a child with autism you don't have a clue" Unless you've had a child with vaccine preventable infectious disease, then you by your own argument dont have a clue.
Hi flavor-flav !
Good to see you !
I have a child with autism. I disagree with you. Do you still claim I don't have a clue? If so, your premise is false.
That said, there are many more vaccines today than before. TYou are rigfht, many have long names (which are pronounceable to me, at least). Guess what, that's because the diseases had very long, complicated names.
The diseases are now mostly unheard of. That's why you are unfamiliar with the names of the vaccines.
Simple history:: introduce vaccine-->disease becomes rare-->people forget about disease.
I, for one, am very grateful that I don't have to hear haemophilus influenzae very often.
You got your history all wrong, there are TONS of diseases today that were never there in the last century. I couldn't even begin to name them all. And how many viruses and bacteria have mutated from our experimentation and "playing God". Too many. I suggest you read "The Autoimmune Epidemic".
Thank you Flavor.
I especially like & agree with;
"We are growing on this one, parents are getting involved and are doing their research and asking questions"
While we have much to thank those in the medical & scientific fields for, this fraudulent atrocity has to be faced, stopped & fixed before more tragedy arises.
I agree with you--this atrocity is fraudulent. The so-called autism epidemic caused by vaccines is fraudulent.
Not what you meant to say, I know. Too bad. It's reality.
I have three children with autism so I absolutely do have a clue.
You can keep saying the same things as many times as you like, but it doesn't make them factually correct.
These vaccines protect against infectious diseases that would otherwise potentially maim or kill your children. Even if you were fortunate to escape permanent harm from the disease, it's still unnecessary suffering you intentionally choose to risk inflicting on your children out of a misguided fear of the risks of vaccination.
Why so many shots today? Science advances.
another misconception kwombles. i challenge any of you. name the last time the govt actually cured anything?? the fear isnt misguilded. there are doctors that wont vaccinate their kids
Those who refuse to vaccinate their children are living in a country mostly free of the diseases that killed my childhood friends 50-60 years ago.
Free of these diseases because of almost universal vaccination.
It will be a horrible wake up call when the reservoir of unvaccinated Americans reaches critical point and their offspring start being brain damaged, crippled and dying from these preventable diseases.
You people not vaccinating your kids are skating because the rest of us DO vaccinate and thus prevent epidemics from getting started.
But I guess you'd rather believe an internet myth that be a responsible citizen and REALLY protect your child.
If you want to protect your children, campaign to clean up our food, water and air from pollutants which are damaging our unborn and born.
Just take a look at whats happening in the UK at the moment. We have 1000s of cases of measles since the wakefield scare caused many people to not get their children the mmr vaccine. this has now resulted in a number of children who have died from measles. people may claim that they are safe in the US from infectious diseases, but if you just take a look at the number of tourists and immigrants who come here from countries with widespread infectious disease, it wont take long in an unvaccinated population to start off an epidemic.
Do we really want out children to die from diseases that are preventable from vaccines?
"diseases that killed my childhood friends 50-60 years ago."
How many autistic friends did you have?
Diagnostic criteria were different, if they even existed at all. My dad's cousin could fix anything, toasters, lawnmowers, motorcycles, airplanes, TV sets, anything. He could write his name with some difficulty, had very little to say, some odd mannerisms and no friends. Almost a walking savant stereotype. Quite possibly would have been diagnosed as autistic today. However, in the late 60's he was found to be suitable for the draft, and was sent off to 'Nam with predictable results. He spent several weeks at our house doing nothing but staring into space, chain-smoking, and fiddling with change in his pocket after he received a section-8 discharge. How may other people were there who were just considered "odd" or "slow" and had no formal diagnosis?
"If you want to protect your children, campaign to clean up our food, water and air from pollutants which are damaging our unborn and born."
Those are admirable and I am sure being advocated -- I do. But why deny vaccines can harm? They do and for all here who have vaccinated and then their child regressed into autism -- why do you deny and doubt?
Those children deserve an investigation for their heath and future care and we need to prevent it in future children. Why don't you advocate for that?
"Those children deserve an investigation for their heath and future care and we need to prevent it in future children. Why don't you advocate for that?"
Thank you.
If we were anti-vaccine, then why is my whole family vaccinated?
I'm sure they'll find something wrong with that statement too ! They have all the answers but none of the right answers.
"Why don't you advocate for that?"
Because the studies have been done and their is no relationship between vaccines and autism. move on
Those who refuse to vaccinate their children are living in a FREE country. Remember, "the land of the free"?
Land of the free? What drugs are you on? Oh, that' right. You are not free to use them if you wanted to.
Try not paying your taxes. Tell them you are exercising your freedom. Or break any other of the thousands of laws. Tell the judge it's the land of the free and see how that works out for you.
That's true, as long as they feel free to keep their unvaccinated children away from those too young to be vaccinated, thereby reducing the risk to others that they have chosen for their own kids.
Land of the fee
brandonsmom I'm a Fan of brandonsmom I'm a fan of this user permalink
Those who refuse to vaccinate their children are living in a FREE country. Remember, "the land of the free"?
***********
Is this the same country where a child can no longer bring a peanut butter sandwich to school as another child is allergic?
Just to be clear, My child can no longer eat peanut butter or any product that may contain peanuts to protect a child with allergies, but you feel that refusing to vaccinate your child (not for medical reasons such as a family history of severe reactions, or poor immune system etc, but because a parent has a 'gut feeling' and 'just knows' that vaccines cause autism') should be allowed to increase the risk my child has to contract a disease that can kill him? Even though this vaccine scare has been scientifically proven to be false?
Where do we draw the line?
At what point is your choice more important than my child's well being and safety?
Before or after we see an epidemic?
Here's a short list of people who have been abducted by aliens. I compiled this list in 2 minutes only searching Google. So this is without doubt a tiny fraction of the alien abductions out there:
1961 Betty and Barney Hill Abduction
1967 The Betty Andreasson Abduction
1967 Abduction of Herbert Schirmer
1968 The Buff Ledge Camp Abduction
1969 The Antonio da Silva Abduction
1973 The Doraty Abduction, Houston, Texas
1973 Pascagoula, Mississippi Abduction (Parker, Hickson)
1974 Hunter Abducted in Wyoming
1975 The Abduction of Sergeant Charles L. Moody
1975 The Travis Walton Abduction
1976 The Stanford, Kentucky Abductions
1976 The Allagash Abductions
1978 The Cullen Abduction
1978 The Dechmont Woods Abduction
1978 The Abduction of Jan Wolski
1980's Lost Time/Abduction in New York
1980 The Alan Godfrey Abduction
1983 The Copely Woods Encounter
1983 The Abduction of Alfred Burtoo
1985 Abduction of Wladyslaw S.
1985 Abduction of Whitley Strieber
1987 Abduction on North Canol Road, Canada
1987 Hudson Valley Abduction
1987 The Christa Tilton Story
1987 The Ilkley Moor Alien
1987 The Jason Andews Abduction
1988 Abduction of Bonnie Jean Hamilton
1988 DNA Sample From Khoury Abduction
1989 Linda Cortile-Napolitano Abduction
1990 Westchester, N. Y. Abduction
1992 The A-70 Abduction
1994 Abduction in Killeen, Texas
1997 Abduction in Wales
1997 Abduction in Australia, (Rylance-Heller)
1999 Carlyle Lake Abduction
2001 Abduction in Michigan
2003-Abduction in Florida
2004 Francis Family Abduction
2005 Man Abducted in Florida
2005 Clayton & Donna Lee Abduction
LOL! Right on!
"right on"?
Is this a game to you guys?
Hi Dr. Karp. How can you explain the fact that there are roughly 4 autistic boys for each autistic girl. Don't both sexes get vaccines? This seems to me a pretty strong argument in favor of the innocence of vax.
Ignorance is bliss isn't it? Just by looking at the bodies you can see their different, do you think the insides are the same?
And how does this explain why vaccines would affect them at 4 times the rate?
See Harvey Karp's Profile
Hi Cool-headed,
That's an excellent question that is never addressed by the people who keep repeating.
In some cases boys are more vulnerable to illness than girls...bu
The strong bias of boys over girls suggests a genetic trait and/or one related to exposure to some type of hormonally active substances. In the 3rd part of my blog (next week), I will offer a theory (not yet proven, but intriguing) that might partially explain why so many more boys are involved.
Thanks for your question!
Come on, you know that is a straw man and as long as you use this sort of argument you will be ignored by those that understand. Want to change minds? I thought that was the idea? You wont further your cause by being sucked into the darker side of this discussion.
As you yourself say, "he strong bias of boys over girls suggests a genetic trait and/or one related to exposure to some type of hormonally active substance". So, if as is suspected by those being ridiculed here, the anecdotal evidence suggesting vaccines may be a trigger or exacerbate ASD, the difference in rate is explained by the base genetic disorder. This has NO impact on the discussion of the potential of vaccines as a potential environmental insult.
"That's an excellent question that is never addressed by the people who keep repeating.
Here's a short list of children who dyied from vaccines. I compiled this list in 10 minutes only searching Google. So this is without doubt a tiny fraction of the deaths out there:
http://vir
http://www
http://www
http://www
http://www
http://www
http://www
http://avn
http://avn
http://www
http://eng
http://www
And finally, someone, anyone explain this one. Twin babies die of SSIDS within 24 hours of each other. Oh yeah, they were vaccinated shortly before:
http://www
This is a list of allegations.
"This is a list of allegation
How's that? You posted a response before you could possibly see all of them. Believe it or not I follow most all links givin by posters.
I'm here to find answers. How about you?
I'm with you ANB!!!
I have twins...on
It's GENETICS..
Autism News Beat...Wel
Logical Fallacy: "Because this was given therefore it was that which caused the problem."
"Logical Fallacy: "Because this was given therefore it was that which caused the problem."
Like when the author "Harvey" made the case that deaths decreased the decade after vaccines were introduced.
welcome dugmaze.
noone will disagree with the fact that some people will have a reaction to a vaccine and that in the very, very small minority of cases their will be fatalities. however, if you do the maths, you will find that the benefit of vaccines far outweighs their risk
Most bad reactions from vaccines come from Pertussis and not on the first shot. If your child is at risk from the pertussis vaccination, you will get a warning by their bad reaction to the first DPT, you can request the next vaccination be only DT. At least your child will be partially protected.
There is no reason not to vaccinate!
"that in the very, very small minority of cases their will be fatalities"
Define VERY,VERY SMALL MINORITY.
Like I said, 10 minute search using only Google. What about all the cases that aren't on the internet or under different searches?
further, in many of these cases, it is not clear that the cause of death is the vaccination
"it is not clear that the cause of death is the vaccination"
How do you know that?
You all need to do some more research. When your child gets a blood test after vaccines and has thrombocytic purpura and you find studies that say Hepatitis B vaccine is known to cause this condition, you wonder if since your child wasn't reported as having a reaction, how many more are there? We're not stupid parents, many of us have become very educated in interpreting blood tests, biological markers and learning science to help us to read studies. Sure, we have to stick within our limit of knowledge, but there is plenty of information out there that any high school student or adult could find to make a rational conclusion.
All you who criticize our thoughts need to hit the books. In fact, moreso, you should be listening to parents, because we have no agenda, we have no determined goal or outcome in the truths of our experiences. Unlike studies, we don't set out to prove something right or wrong, we want the FACTS, we want to know why our kids are different. When I set out on my journey into all this I did NOT think it was vaccines for my younger autistic child. I did not see the regression that I saw in my older son, where I had thought vaccines had a role. With my younger, I wanted to believe everyone else, that there was no link and I was a good mom for protecting him with vaccines. But there IS a link.
Thanks Doug.
Don't forget the rising number of parents & caregivers gathering together against accusations of shaken baby syndrome. I was told that by a credible person in association with the organization involved in this case.
Google or use the search engine of choice, "shaken baby syndrome and vaccinations" & study up for yourselves.
On a personal note, Doug;
Why do you have a ladies picture up? Is that your wife, maybe?
People are referring to you as a she, you know?
Not that you'd care, lol.
I'm being referred to as a "he"
I guess it's the eagle.
I liked your picture of the chicken doing his thing, myself.
People like to pick on us, as you know & between your chicken & my eagle, they could have used that against us in their claims of how dangerous you & I are.
You know, "Birds of a feather, flock together" & blah, blah, blah.
The girl in the picture is Neda.
A young girl from Iran who tragically lost her life during the protest in Iran.
http://new
I pray for her no matter who her God is or where her heaven is.
"You know, "Birds of a feather, flock together" & blah, blah, blah."
LOL
Good to see you !
moffmars, are you saying that parents being charged with shaking their babies and causing damage are innocent and the damage is caused by vaccines?
Vaccines do not cause the same injuries you will find in a baby that has been shaken. If you want some links let me know, I have those as well, under 'links' on my website.
Read "Our Stolen Future".
If the traces of pollutions can mess with a fetus' gender differentiation, seems pretty reasonable that all the pollutants in our air, water, food could easily mess with brain development.
But putting the blame on the pesticides, herbicides, and industrial chemicals would: A) Be difficult to verify B)Mess with big corporation's profits.
So we have the myth of vaccines.
Just an attempt to feel like we parents can control whether our kids get autism when the reality is the corporations have so poisoned the earth that there is very little we can do ourselves.
There are some of us who believe we have too many toxins in our bodies from all forms of pollution.
This mutated our genes over time.
We passed some traits on to our children.
These traits further combined with toxins AND vaccines, caused autism in our children.
Myth of vaccines? I challenge you to look at the ingredients and the MSDS sheets for them. You say corporations have poisoned the earth? What about the pharmaceutical companies poisoning our children? Study Machiavelli, and you will see the big picture better.
Karp #4: A ped's ethical duty is to each individual child, not public health policy. An ethical ped must, therefore, advise parents that the vax schedule has never been tested (vs. unvax'd kids) and therefore must be regarded as a mass population experiment with unknown effects, both good and bad, on chronic health; that acute safety was only analyzed in fully healthy children; etc. The rational parent will (as infections become rare and adverse events more common) refuse vaccines and the risk of chronic AEFI's and rely on the herd immunity of others. This is precisely why we'd expect peds to be leading the fight for safer vaccines and a safer, individualized, schedule. Parental doubts cannot be resolved by more CDC "education" (propaganda) but only by sound science that properly analyzes unvaccinated kids leading to either clearing vaccines of causal risk or changes to their design and schedule to make them as safe as parents must rationally demand. Dr. Karp, will you join the fight for research, safer vaccines, individualized schedules, and research focussed on the national emergency of the autism epidemic (especially prevention and treatments)?
" Parental doubts cannot be resolved by more CDC "education"
I second that
Excellent set of posts !
Actually, your view of medical ethics is not consistent with the principles of bioethics. If you are talking about informed consent, then you have a right to know potential side effects. You are also expected to know that failure to immunize your child places them and anyone else with a compromised immune system (and can't take vaccines) or someone whose vaccine protection is no longer sufficient) at risk for illness, injury, of death.
Companies constantly work to create safer vaccines. Anyone who is suggesting otherwise is either ill-informed or purposely lying to you. I don't think physicians have a problem with you changing the immunization schedule. I suspect they would have major problems with you simply refusing immunizations out of a misplaced belief that they are more dangerous than beneficial.
Your information about mitochondrial disease speaks to my very humble purely parentally observed research that autism has more than one etiology. I truly believe that wish however that there was a better balance of perspective between treatment for autism vs research. With such a limited amount of money available (California budget cuts are predicted to ravage support for children and adults with special needs, many with autism) I want to see more focus on treatment and living/job skills and supports for those already affected.
I absolutely agree with you; more focus and attention on helping those who have autism. More resources towards creating good group homes and work programs so that those with autism who grow up and aren't able to be completely independent can have as much independence as possible and the opportunity to contribute.
I certainly agree, see my bio.
Pardon the crappy typos, it hasn't been my day.
Karp #3: Of course pediatricians make money from vaccines. 4 million babies/year times 36 shots on the infant schedule times $10 profit (??) per shot. You do the math. Profit, not a bad thing of course, but there is a conflict. Why aren't peds giving full information, i.e. that Hg (now only in most flu, but ubiquitous in the 1990's) is a known neuro-toxin; that the schedule has never been safety-tested in comparison to unvaccinated children; that industry testing looks only for acute AEFI's and only in completely healthy children; that the burden of vax-caused chronic illnesss is unknown; that parents have the right (in most states) to refuse shots; etc. But all of this "informed consent" takes time and therefore $$$. Rather than parent groups, the AAP and individual peds should be leading the fight for better research and safer vaccines. Why not? The AAP got about $140 mill8ion in CDC contracts over the past ten years, and an unknown amount from industry. Hush money? Most peds want healthy kids, so, when will you join the vocal fight for safer vaccines??
They would make much more money if they were treating the diseases the vaccines prevent.
Vaccines are already safe.
good post aslanine. too bad its being dismissed simply because they dont share your view.
they cant refute anything you posted, but none the less. youre just wrong because they dont agree with facts. only thing that seems to matter is opinion. i have yet to see anyone refute the evidence put forth. the neuro toxins? silence...
most of these people cant name one ingredient in those vaccines. but they the drug comlpanies. they wouldnt hurt us woudl they?
You have no evidence of whether these posters can list the ingredients or not, but I'd bet you money they sure as heck wouldn't make ingredients up.
Nowhere in our constitution does it state we have a "civic duty" to protect the masses. In fact, it states that we have the right to bear arms - to protect ourselves FROM our neighbors.
How many of you, before you had children, got your booster shots to stay up to date? I would be hard pressed to find anyone who even thinks about vaccines until you have kids (unless you're a medical professional). So, I find this talk of protecting the masses a bit hypocritical. No one even thinks about it until they become a parent (and only until their kids are grown) - but then they get on their soap box about my little unvaccinated kid threatening the country with disease. Please! Were you lined up the Dr's office for your boosters?
Here's the adult schedule:
http://www
Improved sanitation and hygiene practices, coupled with the availability of nutrient-rich foods and vitamin/mineral supplementation can also be attributed to protecting us from diseases. We live in a first world country. For the poor people in Africa, the pros may outweigh the cons, but they would be better served with mosquito nets and clean drinking water.
the evidence for vaccines being effective in preventing infectious disease is overwhelming. there is no medical treatment that has been more effective.
on the contrary, vitamin supplementation is not going to prevent a viral / bacterial infection.
mosquito nets also will not prevent polio, measles, hepatitus and many other infectious diseases.
neither will ignorance
"Nowhere in our constitution does it state we have a "civic duty" to protect the masses."
There is ample Supreme Court precedent for mandatory vaccination.
Vaccinations only mandatory for travel and public school. Home school your kids and tay in America and you are not required to vaccinate.
In 1905, shortly after it decided that separate schools for white and black kids was perfectly ok, the Court upheld the right of Mass. to vaccinate for smallpox, but the liberty interest of the individual was balanced against the state's interest in preventing the spread of a DEADLY disease. Since then, the Court has been busy in erecting greater barriers between the state and personal autonomy, especially medical autonomy (e.g. Griswald, Roe, Harper, Vitek, and Cruzan). The Mass. statute had to do only with smallpox. The Court has only cited Jacobson once since then, in a case (Cruzan) upholding the right to refuse medical treatment. In addition to much greater doubts about the breadth of a state's police power, the Court today also has much greater respect for religious and philosophical liberty. No state "mandates" vaccines today; instead, they are merely a requirement for school attendance, and all but Miss. allow personal belief exemptions. If considered today, the Court would unquestionably strike down any similar mandate. And, the Court just upheld the right to bear arms as an "individual" right.
it's a state by state issue and almost all states allow for medical exemption. Several allow of religious and some allow for philosophical.
Um, have you ever been to a country in Africa? Because I have, and I can tell you emphatically that the people there would be served equally by mosquito nets/clean water and vaccines. I have seen children die from the flu and measles and people crippled by polio, due to lack of vaccines. Not to mention yellow fever, typhus and smallox. So please, do us all a favor and don't talk about something you know nothing about. Also, I hope you are warning all the parents of children your child comes into contact with that yours is not vaccinated. Since you want to admonish people about being responsible, I would just hope that you are doing that.
Very good points. However, your points in some cases will be ignored or dismissed. the gut feeling about autism and vaccines trumps anything, even the death of children.
PureMothers you are right. I find it interesting that the aggressive vaccine mandators here either avoided or distorted your rational points to suit their interest. I guess that's how the game is played.
We have a civic duty to play a number of roles in our country. But being forced to inject our children's blood with a wide assortment of at least suspect, man-made concoctions (including those manufactured with components originating from aborted human fetuses and animals), must remain an individual's full and free choice.
Our freedom couldn't possibly be further degraded than if our bodies, our temples, were forcibly breeched with needles and foreign substances - in the name of protecting someone else. Though there are countries where that kind of thing may be the norm.
Despite what is so easy to claim under the anonymity of a blog, I would appreciate discovering in truth how many of the pro-vaccinators, high on their soap boxes, have stayed fully current with their booster shots. Certainly a subset of them.
And you are also right that in societies where toxic water, malnutrition and unsanitary conditions persist, correction of those problems would impact the spread of some of the vaccinated diseases.
Despite NetDude's selective data points.
Thanks for a rational piece on this issue and a non-controversial approach. Vaccines of old posed more threat to immune systems and brain development. Yet the incidence of autism was far lower and that can't be accounted for by under-diagnosis.
Karp #2: The "prestigeous" Institute of Medicine conceded in its 2004 report http://arc
"The IOM conceded in its 2004 report, itself deeply flawed, that "susceptible" children might in fact be at risk for vax-caused autism: "Absent biomarkers, well-defined risk factors, or large effect sizes, the committee cannot rule out, based on the epidemiological evidence, the possibility that vaccines contribute to autism in some small subset or very unusual circumstan
Anti-vaccine activists love to spin the IOM's words. What was "deeply flawed" about the 2004 report, other than it did not come to the conclusion you wanted it to?
Firstly, the link for the IOM report is this:
http://www
Secondly, your quoting of the report is not entirely being honest. Science will never on any matter say 100% that something will never happen. Its just the way it works. however, if you quoted the sentences after your quote, the committee concludes on the science that there is not a link to support that vaccines cause autism:
"Absent biomarkers, well-defined risk factors, or large effect sizes, the committee cannot rule out, based on the epidemiological evidence, the possibility that vaccines contribute to autism in some small subset or very unusual circumstances. However, there is currently no evidence to support this hypothesis either."
Thank you.
Karp #1: It is precisely the elegance and complexity of the human immune system, thanks to God and Darwin, that puts the developing neonate at risk for damage from the 36 shots of 16 antigens plus a host of adjuvants and preservatives during the first five years of life. These are all MAN MADE and NOT natural, and not delivered through the "natural" routes suggested by Dr. Karp. The only way to know this is to compare the health of vaccinated vs. unvaccinated children. Congress passed a Mandate for Safer Childhood Vaccines in 1986, but the Government has pursued a policy of deliberate ignorance. CDC has a database of health records for several million vaccinaged (and possibly unvaccinated) children, the Vaccine Safety Datalink, but refuses to make these data public. A senior policy committee, the National Vaccine Advisory Committee, approved on June 2 a set of research recommendations, the centerpiece of which was a program of study of the health of unvaccinated children. See http://www
Whale.to ?
Pretty amazing that anyone would cite that source.
AutismNewsBeat, you are being too nice in the simple question.
Alsanone, if you can't find the information anywhere else than whale.to, your argument is nonsense. It is a total crank website.
Beyond that, it is a hate website. Citing it only gives credence to the site, supporting the hate. Anyone giving credence to a website that would host the protocols of the elders of zion (a terrible, antisemitic falsehood) should be ashamed of him/her self.
That doesn't even touch on the ridiculous nature of the site--with levitating dolphins (no joke!) and the rest.
However, grouping Whale.to with Generation Rescue's "fourteen studies" is a good match in crank if not in hate. Generation Rescue is an organization which embarrasses the autism community with outright dishonesty.
"Ignorance, especially the Government's deliberate ignorance, is NOT sound science."
Neither is whale.to or the critique of the "14 studies".
Nor is this:
"It is precisely the elegance and complexity of the human immune system, thanks to God and Darwin, that puts the developing neonate at risk for damage from the 36 shots of 16 antigens plus a host of adjuvants and preservatives during the first five years of life."
What has Darwin got to do with this?
Darwin is metonymy for evolution. (See? We can all use jargon! : ) )
The idea is that organisms are exquisitely designed for their specific (ancestral) environment by evolution, and introducing huge changes all at once (like vaccinations) are more than a little likely to cause developmental problems.
Common examples of this are fetal alcohol syndrome and lead poisoning, which cause cognitive difficulties.
Conversely, an unmet evolved need can be as dangerous; the lack of folic acid can cause spina bifida, and the lack of vitamin D can cause rickets.
"Research has shown the general causes. See Coleman (2005) The Neurology of Autism. Now it is up to future research to narrow and refine the actual causes, although since it seems fairly clear that the ASDs are related to MCA/MR in that there may be thousands of genetic causes, as well as it being likely that it is set in place by birth, research might be better focused on effective treatments to mitigate the worst behavioral difficulties and executive function problems."
Ooh, you win.
You went all ASD and MCA/MR on me.
Who can argue with acronyms?
Can't you Google? Or do you not understand the deffinitions you find there?
If you're focusing on acronyms..
The strategy in the post was transparently to try to overwhelm the rest of us with insider jargon (which I could parse just fine, thank you).
I know very well how some teachers whip out education jargon to try to intimidate and confuse combative parents.
Sometimes it works. When it doesn't, you look foolish.
"Cause" is not in question in this thread, the possibility of trigger or exacerbation is.
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