An Israeli Perspective on What's Happening in Gaza: "We are Doing Everything in Our Power Not to Hit Civilians"
Numbers alone can be misleading in understanding what is happening this week in Gaza. Such is the message of Asaf Shariv, consul general of Israel in New York, who offered an Israeli perspective to a gathering on Manhattan's Upper West Side on Thursday night.
He sought to provide information that is all-to-often absent or glossed over in much media coverage, which focuses, he says, on Palestinian civilian casualties and not on the realities that underlie the figures.
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF), are going to great lengths to minimize casualties to Palestinian civilians, he maintains. Those lengths include conducting radio broadcasts warning Palestinian civilians to evacuate areas where the IDF plans to strike and even placing phone calls to buildings where Hamas bomb-making labs are located to tell Palestinian civilians to leave the area before the IDF strikes to destroy the weapons, he says.
Also, one of the reasons for Israel's ground incursion is to minimize loss of civilian life on the Palestinian side.
"The easiest thing, if we didn't care about preserving Palestinian civilian life, would be to attack just from the air," he said. "[But] we want to make sure we are hitting terrorists, not civilians."
He dismissed as unfair and illogical the accusation, leveled by many critics of Israel in recent days, that Israel's response to years of Hamas rocket attacks on its civilians is disproportionate.
"When someone is hitting the center of your cities with rockets, the most proportional thing would be to hit back the center of their cities with rockets," he said in an interview following the gathering. "That would have killed a lot more of their civilians. A proportional reaction would be to aim at their civilians and Israel is not doing that."
Moreover, he argues that calculations pitting numbers killed on the different sides do not capture the bottom line: Hamas is intent on killing Israeli civilians and destroying Israel, and Hamas intentionally targets civilians, while the IDF goes to great lengths to avoid injuring or killing Palestinian civilians. To the extent that fewer Israelis than Palestinians have died in the current fighting, it's not because of Hamas's intentions. It's because Israel takes far better care of its civilians than Hamas does.
"We are keeping our population in shelters, we are not using them as human shields," he said. "Today, close to a million Israelis are sitting in shelters and 250,000 kids are not going to school. This week, [Hamas rockets] hit two kindergartens and a high school classroom. They were empty. If the kids had been in there they would have died."
The United Nations estimates that 25 percent of Palestinian casualties in the present incursion are civilian. Shariv said that as of this Wednesday morning, the IDF estimated the proportion of Palestinian civilians among those killed in the current incursion was "closer to 12 to 13 percent" and emphasized that most of those killed were being used as human shields by Hamas, which wages war from inside schools, hospitals and United Nations facilities.
He added, "When they hit [Israeli] civilians, there's celebration. When we hit [Palestinian] civilians, there's an investigation."
Today Shariv added that, according to IDF intelligence, Hamas leadership is lying about the proportions of militants to civilians killed in order to avoid demoralizing the militants.
"Yesterday a Hamas spokesperson said only [Palestinian] civilians had died, which shows [relying on Hamas for an accurate count is] ridiculous," he said. "They are burying militants immediately so as not to have an exact number."
Israel's goals in continuing the operation are twofold, according to Shariv.
"We want to make sure [Hamas] will not have the motivation to keep attacking us," he said. "And once this operation will end, we want to make sure they got hit so bad they won't be able to re-arm themselves by getting weapons from Iran through tunnels."
Regarding the passage of yesterday's UN Security Council resolution calling for a cease-fire, Shariv cited Hamas's stated refusal to adhere and their continuous firing of rockets as an indicator that the threat to Israel's people has not been removed and therefore the operation must continue.
Moreover, he maintains that defeating Hamas will open the door to negotiations with Arab moderates that cannot take place at present because of the threat of Hamas.
"Anyone who supports peace in the Mideast must support what Israel is doing now," he said.
During his talk, he cited the Encyclopedia Britannica's figures on numbers of German versus British civilians killed during World War II.
"In World War II, Germany killed 80,000 civilians in the United Kingdom," he said. "The United Kingdom attacked in retaliation and killed 2 million [German] civilians. Does that make Germany the right side?"
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Funny quotes from this article that don't even need a retort
"The Israel Defense Forces (IDF), are going to great lengths to minimize casualties to Palestinian civilians"
"one of the reasons for Israel's ground incursion is to minimize loss of civilian life on the Palestinian side."
"the IDF goes to great lengths to avoid injuring or killing Palestinian civilians.
and my favorite:
"We want to make sure [Hamas] will not have the motivation to keep attacking us,"
Say I am a terrorist and I am hiding somewhere and I get to hear the IDF message that they are about to hit a certain area, would I still be there knowing how destructive those bombs can be? I believe someone somewhere is not telling us a good lie.
Incredible facts! Hamas would sacrifice their own civilian populace to further their political agenda! It is so counter humanitarian that it seems unbelievable, yet this is quite evident. This same kamikaze approach to the value of human life was quite evident during 9/11.
Hamas is committing genocide against its civilian population. There is no other way to view their actions...
CONT
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In the former case your submission seems right. In the later it is kind of ludicrous.
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My submission of the portion of HAMAS' Charter is the only relevant part.
Say you have a charter of the KKK. You skip Rule #1 and read the rest of the rules that say the KKK will build schools and employ teachers.. Other rules say that they will build hospitals and employ doctors.. Still other rules say that they will build roads and provide necessities to their citizens..
So, you say to yourself, "WOW. These KKK people must be all right. Look at all the good they are doing.."
Then you look at Rule #1 and it says that the KKK will kill all people who are not Caucasian.
So, lemme ask you... Of all the rules that determine the "niceness" and "goodness" of the KKK, which rule do you think is most relevant?? The dozens and dozens of rules that show how good the KKK is??
Or the 1 rule that says they will kill anyone who is not Caucasian???
The answer is self-evide
So it is with HAMAS...
The answer is self-evide
But it seems that most people here hate Israel more than they hate terrorism.
And that's just sad...
Michale...
@Lon
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It really comes down to whether one is more concerned with justifying the killing of Palestinian civilians,
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I don't have to justify. By all rules of warfare, by the International Criminal Courts and by the Geneva Conventions, Israel's actions ARE justified.
And it's HAMAS, not Israel, who is responsible for the innocent civilian deaths.
That's the fact that you just won't grasp..
If the US had committed the same kinds of war crimes (not the terrorism) in Iraq that HAMAS is committing in Gaza, you people would be screaming to high heaven...
Why do you give HAMAS a free pass???
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or you are interesting in understanding the situation in a way that would be helpful to protecting future Israeli and Palestinian lives.
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I understand the situation perfectly. It's not complex whatsoever
HAMAS is committing terrorism. Israel is going to put an end to HAMAS' terrorism.
See?? Simple...
Those who take HAMAS' side in this have to try and make it complex because that is the only way that the BLAME ISRAEL argument has a chance...
But it's not complex at all...
CONT
I congratulate Ms. Robinson for putting things in balanced perspective. Islamic radicalism is a menace which terrorizes the mankind everywhere. It is a cancer that hides behind innocent people to achieve their gruesome objectives. How can we forget what happened in Mumbai only weeks ago? The State of Israel is perpetually threatened on a daily basis by Islamic militants. Perhaps we got too used to Islamic rockets and suicide bombing. It hardly catches our attention when the innocent lives in Israel, India, Indonesia or Afghanistan are taken by these miscreants. We shed little tear for millions of Hindus living in fear in Bangladesh. Who cares about Taslima Nasrin, a Bangladeshi writer, has to leave her own country because mullahs are determined to kill her. I say enough is enough. Hamas dig tunnels and bring arsenal from outside and stockpile them within Palestinian communities. Thanks to Mr. Bush’s passion for bringing democracy in another violent part of the world. Now Israel and the world will have to deal with Hamas.
"We are doing everything in our power not to hit civilian"
That should be up to a independent monitoring force or an international criminal court like the ICC which I doubt Israel is a party too because of what we are seeing today!
"When they hit [Israeli] civilians, there's celebration. When we hit [Palestinian] civilians, there's an investigat
Investigation by the Israelis? Like that will solve anything but a slap on the wrist just like in the U.S.
Their is no fear of abiding to human rights, Geneva Conventions or international laws in the West. The West will not be punished. When was the last war crimes tribunal opened up against a Western nation? Human rights, that is for the other nations to follow! Geneva Conventions you say are for those other nations to respect! International law only applies to those other nations likewise!
Point is the West does not care about the rules and laws, it is for other nations to follow.
The West is above the law period just like Israel. Israel can level entire apartment complexes but I guess if you do it with tanks, helicopters and bombers it is ok and legal.
Hamas should get tanks, helicopters and bombers because then you can attack Israeli homes and it will be just and legal! Hamas can claim Israeli soldiers were hiding behind Israeli homes thus that would justify a tank shell right into the middle of that home! Where
Hamas threw human rights out the window when they launched their first rocket after the cease fire expired. Hamas continues to throw human rights out the window when they transport, assemble, store and launch rockets from private civilian homes.
Is there an independent monitoring force filming and reporting every Quassam rocket that lands in Sderot? How about reporting all on all the schools and civilian homes in Southern Israel that have been hit by Iraqi manufactured, Hamas launched, long range rockets?!!!
I concur with Michael 32086 who carefully articulates that any individual who attempts to complicate the legality of Israel's defense actions exposes themselves to be anti-Zionistic and anti-Jewish!
Thank you, Ms. Robinson for posting the facts in a clear manner that will shed light upon those who seek to destroy Israel with munitions OR words!
Thank you, Ms. R. for providing a breath of honest air blowing over the stink of media prejudice toward Israel. Since statehood, the Palestinians have been used by the other Arabs (so called "moderates" included) to do their dirty work, be the cannon fodder, in the endless struggle to get rid of Israel. Why , for a current example, can't Egypt let any of them in---? no, Egypt can just complain about the "humanitarian crisis" but keep their own border slammed closed. What about Jordan, originally set up to include the Palestinians? Jordan doesn't want them. And what about Hamas, the terrorists we know---they will embed themselves right in the Palestinian's homes, guaranteeing civilian death to these poor, exploited people. Shame on the world press for their distortions of this clear set of facts. Not too long ago, the press was parroting the term "genocide" to characterize Israel's approach to the Palestinians. That was until their numbers went from 400,000 to over 4 million. Curious, isn't it that then the "genocide" label was dropped. The "press" helped the anti-Semites of the world to create this horror. Shame, shame, shame. Maylin Pitz
Ms Robinson,
Unfortunately your article is wasted on those whose hatred for anything Israeli (and typically Jewish as well), is an a-priori belief that has no relationship to reason in an analagous way that computers cannot "comprehend" anything that is non-binary.
But for those who aspire to truth, and for those whose suspicions of truth need reinforcement, I am full of praise for you.
And here's to you, Ms. Robinson, Jesus loves you more than you will know. God bless you, please Ms. Robinson.
Numbers are not all that matter, but of course numbers matter. If one institutes a policy that guarantees a large number of civilian deaths, one hardly make this moral by noting that one had the capacity to kill even more civilians.
That Hamas is killing as many innocent people as it can (apparently not quite true but let that go) by killing 4 people while the Israelis are showing restraing by only killing a couple of hundred innocent people does not really establish that killing 4 people is worse than killing hundreds in this case. This plays into the absurd idea that being stronger allows one to do more harm while counting as being more moral. And this is nonsense.
Also, how can anyone miss the absurdity of complaining, as Israel does that Hamas is not abiding by the cease fire that the Israelis are not abiding by? While the Israelis are killing Palestinians there is no cease fire. And while there is no cease fire there is no cease fire to violate.
You play an interesting game with words, numbers and timelines. It is almost convincing; How can israel justify killing more civilians than Hamas, regardless of the circumstances? But to be convinced by your logic is to forget one simple truth. Israel has no interest in killing civilians, only terrorists. Where as Hamas is most benefited by killing civilians.
And that's it, in a nutshell..
Michale...
But this rather oversimplifies things. Israel has an interest in maintaining settlements in the midst of territory whose people they don't want as citizens. There is no way to do this without causing the deaths of innocent people. So what Israel wants is to do something which requires the death of innocents.
What Hamas wants is to rule Greater Palestine as a Palestinian state. What they face is a state of perpetual occupation that they want to end. Given their weakness, it's not clear that they can obtain either the unreasonable goal or the reasonable one without killing innocent people.
Either side would be happy to not kill innocent people if they could magically get their goals and the other side would stop fighting back.
But it's hard to see anything that makes moral reasoning more useless than if it is warped in a way that makes the stronger power more moral than the weaker since it can get closer to its goals using systems that cause more harm and suffering, but can do so in ways in which the harm and suffering can be considered indirect. That's a parody of morality, it isn't morality.
That the Israeli behavior is one that guarantees more suffering than the Hamas ones is the closest we can come to a fact in this situation that is not dependent on playing with words. Whether it counts as terrorism if cvilians are killed this way rather than that way, that is playing with words.
Ms Robinson,
Very good commentary
It's amazing how much Israel is bending over backwards to protect Palestinian civilians when their own elected representatives are doing their best to have the innocent civilians killed...
I also find it amazing (and disgusting) that HAMAS is given a free pass for the blatant and even BRAGGED about war crimes.. Using human shields is about as pathetic a tactic as is possible..
I also invite you to take an ariel tour of Gaza...
http://map
This depicts the northern border of Gaza... Take a look around..
Notice all the wide open areas that would actually be CLOSER to the border. HAMAS would have MORE of Israel in range, if they moved their missiles out of the civilian areas..
Granted, they would still be committing terrorism against Israel, but at least they would not be committing war crimes and being responsible for their own people being killed..
And there are some people in these comments who actually claim it's perfectly understandable for HAMAS to place their missiles amongst civilian areas.. I had one commenter who said, "HAMAS would be picked off in 2 seconds if they placed their launchers in open areas so of course they are going to put them in civilian areas"... I was gabberflasted!!
Anyways, good commentary
Michale...
Heather Robinson is a little naive, to say the least. Lets see. The Germans killed 20 million Russians, and the Soviet Army and other allies killed about six million (Wikipedia) Germans. That means the Germans are the Israelis and Hamas is the Soviet Army. No, the Germans are Hamas and the Israelis are the Soviet Army. But then, the Germans killed six million Jews, communists, gays, Gypsys, etc. The Germans lost about six million. So it was a wash.
A better analogy for Mr. Shariv would be the German Army attack on the Warsaw ghetto. Jews in Warsaw kill German soldiers. This is a terrorist attack. The Germans respond by murdering defenseless Jews. This is a reasonable response to terrorism.
Can you explain to me, under what definition of terrorism, is the killing of soldiers in a wartime environment?
As to the commentary, I think Ms Robinson's points were dead on..
It's proven that Israel DOES care more about the Palestinians than HAMAS does.
It's proven that HAMAS uses Human Shields and places military equipment in crowded civilian areas, even at the expense of the efficiency of the hardware. Get that? HAMAS missiles and such would be MORE efficient out in the open, closer to the Israeli border...
These are indisputable facts....
Michale...
"What definition of terrorism is the killing of soldiers in a war time environment?" You may want to check with our dear leader, George W. Bush. All U.S. soldiers have been and are being slaughtered by terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Michale,
You argue Hamas' questionable choice of equipment placement quite often, but are you talking about it from a military standpoint or a moral one?
Let's look at the military standpoint. If we say Hamas' objective is to launch rockets into Israel, then I would assume that they would rather have the launchers intact in the long run and sacrifice "efficiency" than launch a few attacks with extended range in an open area and have their equipment promptly destroyed.
This brings us to the immorality of placing weapons within the civilian population. I agree with you on this point. However, you keep insisting that those of us who voice opposition to Israel's actions "hate Israel more than we hate terrorism". If we have a friend who engages in questionable activity, is it improper of us to express concern and try to curtail his/her behavior? The annexation of just under 1.5 million Palestinians into a 140 square mile strip of land, and the blockade that results in a lack of food, water, medical attention, employment and freedom of movement for its population is a serious injustice, at least as serious as the rockets being launched into Israel. If the situation was reversed and it was Israelis instead of Palestinians who were imprisoned in Gaza, what would you say?
With great power comes great responsibility - the side that is in a position of power bears the onus of making concessions. Now if only America had taken that approach..
Your comment was far more worth reading than this article.
The 1943 Warsaw analogy is correct. The Wehrmacht at that time had some of the finest military equipment in the world. That same Wehrmacht was determined to stop the traffic in small arms that were being smuggled into the Jewish ghetto. Jews with weapons, even cheap, lightweight handguns could resist the German occupation. The Germans were of course against that. So today, in 2009 the neo-Wehrmacht wants to prevent any weapons being smuggled into Gaza for the same reason.
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