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Henry J. Stern

Henry J. Stern

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NRA's Friendly Fire

Posted: 05/16/11 05:40 PM ET

Accustomed as we have become to various scenarios which involve corruption, cronyism, incompetence, foolishness and favoritism, we were nonetheless surprised to learn that last Thursday, a vote was taken by the House Judiciary that defeated an anti-terrorism initiative which we, in our naivete, believed would have been unobjectionable.

The proposal would give the Attorney General of the United States authority to deny the transfer of a firearm to someone who is on the government's Terrorism Watch List. It came as an amendment to H.R. 1800, offered by Representative Michael Quigley of Illinois. The amendment is only one sentence long, although it is a long sentence. Here it is, in full:

Attorney General Authority To Deny Transfer Of Firearms To Terrorists

"The Attorney General may deny the transfer of a firearm if information obtained through the use of authorities under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.) indicates that a prospective firearm transferee is or has been engaged in conduct constituting, in preparation for, in aid of, or related to terrorism, and the Attorney General has a reasonable belief that the prospective transferee may use a firearm in connection with terrorism."

The Quigley amendment was defeated by a party line vote, 11 Democrats in support, 21 Republicans in opposition. Congressman Peter King, Republican of New York State and chair of the House Committee on Homeland Security, has introduced similar legislation, also pending before the Judiciary Committee and not yet brought to a vote.

The quest for authority to deny a firearm to a potential terrorist began in the Bush administration, but such a bill was twice rejected by Congress, largely because of opposition by the National Rifle Association, one of the most powerful lobbies in the United States. The chair of the House Judiciary Committee is currently Representative Lamar Smith of Texas, a state where gun ownership by individuals is highly valued.

The House decision was noted that afternoon by Mayor Bloomberg in a press conference dealing with the arrest of two lone wolf terrorists in Queens. He said:

"Let me just point out that even as the NYPD continues to do such great work in this area, today there was a vote in the U.S. House of Representatives on a measure that would have prevented people on the terrorist watch list from purchasing guns. I'm sorry to report that measure failed. Our Coalition of Mayors Against Illegal Guns has urged Congress to pass such restrictions, and last night's arrest is a perfect illustration why."

In an April 28th Associated Press article, Eileen Sullivan reported that last year, according to FBI figures, 247 people on the terror watch list "who were allowed to buy weapons did so after going through required background checks as required by federal law." Her article is a thorough analysis of the issue, citing both sides. It is well worth reading; you can find the article here.

Chris Brown, a reporter for Media Matters, a liberal media watchdog, wrote an article whose title asks a question that is easy to answer: "Will the NRA keep supporting the loophole letting people on terror watch buy guns?" It is a good example of advocacy journalism. Click here to read Brown's piece, which has links of its own.

There are people out there who strongly oppose this bill, which seems so sensible to many others. Their position is expressed by the National Rifle Association, whose staff has prepared a brief stating their case. Although we disagree with them, we want you to have the opportunity to read their arguments, some based on Constitutional and libertarian principles, others more pragmatic. Click here to read the NRA brief. From a professional point of view, it is a competent piece of work. We recall that in The Merchant of Venice, by W.S., Antonio says: "The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose."

Each side in this controversy refers to the other as "extremists." It was not, however, leftist radicals who killed 169 people at the Oklahoma City federal building on April 19, 1995, deliberately marking the second anniversary of the Branch Davidian fire in Waco, Texas, which killed 54 adults and 21 children. That is the day before Hitler's birthday, April 20, a date the teenaged Columbine murderers commemorated in 1999 by shooting to death 12 fellow students and 1 teacher and injuring 21 others. Six people died when Congresswoman Giffords was shot on January 8 while greeting constituents in her Arizona district.

The arguments made by the NRA parallel in some ways those of leftist organizations who defend terrorists by claiming that their Constitutional rights have been abridged at Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere by detention, interrogation, rendition and other practices intended to elicit information from those unwilling to supply it voluntarily. Like the NRA, these groups challenge the executive branch exercising its powers, and sometimes they prevail in the judicial branch, which is traditionally more sensitive to individual liberties than the branch whose elected leaders have historically felt a greater responsibility to keep Americans safe from harm, as, for example, when President Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus during the War of the Rebellion, or the War Between the States, if you prefer the Southern version.

Back to the present, the NRA's challenge to executive authority is manifest in the legislative branch, where its influence is strong, due to its large membership scattered in swing states, and its effective lobbying and political action. President Obama and the Justice Department are regularly accused of violating the rights and desires of gun owners. The NRA website says: "On the Second Amendment, Don't Believe Obama". The far left, on the other hand, depends for sustenance on occasional judicial victories. New York Civic does not rush to take sides in these political-judicial disputes, the Federal issues involved being far above our pay grade, a phrase that went viral after Senator Obama was asked his views on abortion in 2008.

The Quigley amendment does not forbid possible terrorists from purchasing guns, it simply gives the Attorney General the right to prevent such a transaction if he has "a reasonable belief that the prospective transferee may use a firearm in connection with terrorism." Does that not appear sensible? Most transactions are likely to be approved, but there is value in the Justice Department knowing which potential terrorists are buying guns.

We did not anticipate the result in the Judiciary Committee, but we should have foreseen it considering the legislative history of this matter. We know that any form of restriction on the sale or use of firearms engenders fierce resistance by a spectrum ranging from hunters to survivalists, possibly including both Birchers and birthers. What we did not realize was that, even when the prevention of terrorists from taking the lives of Americans is at stake, the right to transfer firearms still takes precedence.

God bless America. His blessing may be necessary for its protection.

 

Follow Henry J. Stern on Twitter: www.twitter.com/nycivic

 
 
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Rooster Coburn
Less Gov't + More Responsibility = A Better World
08:37 PM on 05/17/2011
About the only use the TWL has is to provide material to late night comedians.
InYourWorld
Progressive, educated, redneck but fan of no party
09:23 PM on 05/19/2011
and jobs to derelicts.
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
07:02 PM on 05/17/2011
Amazingly, many of the same people who want to violate the Constitution by using the TWLs to deny people their rights and liberties were, just a few short years ago, decrying the TWLs and claiming that they had been put on said lists simply for speaking out against the president.

Ain't it funny how things change?
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
06:48 PM on 05/17/2011
Mr Stern,

First you are incorrect regarding what you say this amendment would have done.

You state "The proposal would give the Attorney General of the United States authority to deny the transfer of a firearm to someone who is on the government's Terrorism Watch List."

This is not true. There was no stipulation in the proposed amendment which required that a person be on one of the many TWLs. All that was required was the AG to decide the person MIGHT have ties to terrorism.

Further, you may not be aware of this, but there are 13 TWLs and the No Fly List. Many of the TWLs are classified. Most of the people on these lists have not ties to terrorism and have done nothing wrong, according to the FBI, GAO, and ACLU. Additionally, it is extremely difficult to get your name removed from these lists, if you can even find out if you are on one and which one you are on. And many of these lists simply rely on names, not physical descriptions.

Secondly, in the US we have a couple principles you may have heard of. The first is being innocent until proven guilty. The second is the requirement of due process before being denied any rights, liberty, or property.

Trying to use the TWLs, No Fly List, or AG determination are clear violations of these principles and would be quickly struck down as unconstitutional.
05:17 PM on 05/17/2011
I don't care what the republicans or democrats say, you can't deprive somebody of their rights without Due Process of Law, and the Terrorist Watch lists do not achieve Due Process. There is no oversight, they are secret and there is no process of appeals. Using those lists to deprive people of anything is as un-American as it gets. The ACLU agrees.
05:03 PM on 05/17/2011
MAIG is mainstream,realistic,serious...

Their proposals are harmless to law abiding gun carriers...
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OdinsEye
Korean-Latino cop and combat vet
06:52 PM on 05/17/2011
And if you believe that, I have a bridge for sale. Special low, low price for you because I like you.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
David Carson
11:54 AM on 05/18/2011
and I have some Caribbean beach front property in upper peninsula Michigan that is a real steal
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
08:53 PM on 05/17/2011
"MAIG is mainstream­,realistic­,serious..­."

At the rate MAIG members are going to prison, they will be harmless in a few years.
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grimace71
Restore America Now
04:22 PM on 05/17/2011
I have read thru all the comments to this point & I am shocked to find anyone that would have supported this legislation. How can you possibly call yourself an American if you are for this legislation? The watchlists (there are more than one) have been clearly identified as completely arbitrary & nonsensical.

I am certain there are individuals on the watchlists that warrant such a status...USUALLY because they are NOT U.S. citizens and/or have been directly tied (with evidence) to real terrorist activities. The fact that the USAG and DoHS have fully acknowledged that I myself (because of my opinionated comments and opposition to our Executive branch's policies) could very well be on the watchlist...is proof to me that it is way, way too flawed to be utilized for these gun-control zealots deviant purposes.

Once this legislation passed, the ONLY thing that needs to be done to completely disarm an honest, hard-working, law-abiding citizen is put them on the list. That simple. Let's say you decide that your next door neighbor is an a$$...you call the FBI and claim they have been engaging in antagonistic, terrorist-like behavior (remember, this administration has encouraged this kind of "neighborly" behavior). Next time Mr. a$$ neighbor goes to buy a firearm this new legislation allows the BAFTE to deny the purchase and potentially seize any current firearms he possesses.

Sound unrealistic? Certainly not...very probable and conceivable. Thank God this legislation failed!
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
LesleyAnne
04:36 PM on 05/17/2011
So, how would you keep guns out of the hands of terrorists?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Bourbon
04:49 PM on 05/17/2011
SHARPLY limiting immigration and tourist visas from Islamic countries would probably be a good start.
05:22 PM on 05/17/2011
LesleyAnne, this legislation would not keep guns out of the hands of terrorists, it would keep guns out of the hands of *suspected* terrorists. As in, they have not even been charged with crimes. If these people are really so dangerous then we should have evidence against them right? That's just the thing, no evidence is required to be put on these lists.

As security expert Bruce Scheier says - "These people are so DANGEROUS that we can't let them on a plane (or buy a gun), yet so INNOCENT that we can't charge them with a crime". It's really un-American. We have the right to Due Process of Law. It's in the 5th amendment. It's where we get "innocent until proven guilty" from.
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CelticMajic
The answer lies in each of us individually
04:15 PM on 05/17/2011
Please tell us Mr. Stern that you are not in favor of abrogating due process. Please tell us.
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scott7841
PDD 51 is not a vitamin...just a bitter pill
04:02 PM on 05/17/2011
People should research the criteria used to put people on a watchlist. Under the DHS guidelines it can be for speaking against the president's policy, supporting someone who is deemed anti-government, etc. As a matter of fact many of the post on these boards (both left and right wing) would qualify the poster to be put on a watchlist. They whole thing about the Arizona county that wants to form it's own state actually is grounds for being placed on a watchlist. We definitely need to have a method of identifying terrorist or potential terrorist but the broad scoped criteria with no oversight in place now isnt it.
03:57 PM on 05/17/2011
The NRA's ultimate solution to all problems--guns.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Bourbon
04:04 PM on 05/17/2011
The ultimate "progressive" solution to all problems---Abrogate the Constitutional right of Due Process.
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CelticMajic
The answer lies in each of us individually
04:16 PM on 05/17/2011
And what does that have to do with stripping due process from those on a secretly compiled list?
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Sugarmaker
Act like what you do makes a difference, it does
02:01 PM on 05/17/2011
How many watch list subjects have prior convictions, are non-us citizens, or are otherwise ineligible to legally purchase firearms under current law? Is there any way to determine this?
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Bourbon
02:15 PM on 05/17/2011
Close to 99% of the watch list people are non resident aliens, and are already barred from purchasing guns under present law.

But, hey, why let facts get in the way of demagogueing the NRA?
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Old Jarhead
often tested, always faithful, brothers forever
02:58 PM on 05/17/2011
A link to your assertion would be appreciated. You realize, even the ACLU is not in favor of this particular legislation.
09:13 PM on 05/17/2011
This sounds like the #2 argument.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
frank day
Republican = FAIL
02:00 PM on 05/17/2011
There should be a comprehensive list of who owns firearms. How many and of what type.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Bourbon
02:09 PM on 05/17/2011
Perhaps there should also be a comprehensive list of who posts comments critical of our beloved Leader too.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
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03:40 PM on 05/17/2011
Or perhaps a data-base indicating all people's religious persuasions. And, just as ‘reasonably,’ the police should have the right to search your property & belongings whenever they please! Oh, yeah! They can also “persuade” you to confess to a crime through the judicious application of electric current as well as try you multiple times for a crime until the government gets the “correct’ verdict!

De Oppresso Liber
Old SF MJT
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
David Carson
01:55 PM on 05/17/2011
Mr Stern--no rights may be denied except through due process--and a bureaucrat stamping a piece of paper with no hearing is NOT due process
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Changeover
Got the runway in sight.
04:21 PM on 05/17/2011
It was until the SCOTUS overturned it last year.  Sad they try the same joke again.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Jerry Bourbon
01:52 PM on 05/17/2011
What other rights to "progressives" propose to deny American citizens who have neither been indicted nor convicted of any crime?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
Changeover
Got the runway in sight.
04:23 PM on 05/17/2011
Next is the Internet.  Then the public Highways.  Standard Socialistic stuff.
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Sugarmaker
Act like what you do makes a difference, it does
01:42 PM on 05/17/2011
When a "Watch list" is used to deny access to goods and services it's no longer a watch list. Usually when someone is singled out for legal penalties as a result of their actions, the state must follow due process. Evidence is presented, questions are asked, and a ruling is made. If the state accepts evidence which is secret and cannot be cross examined, and legal penalties are applied as a result of such evidence, then due process was not served. Very simple.
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Steve41
Never insult anyone by accident. R.A.H.
03:13 PM on 05/17/2011
Fanned and faved.
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Steve41
Never insult anyone by accident. R.A.H.
01:02 PM on 05/17/2011
Exerpts from Dept of Justice Review of Terrorist watch list:

"In addition to its nomination process for investigative subjects, the FBI also uses other processes to nominate individuals to the terrorist watchlist. We found that the internal controls over these other processes are weak or nonexistent. As a result, numerous watchlist records nominated through these processes are not subjected to rigorous initial review, periodically confirmed, or examined for potential removal."

"In addition to the FBI field office records discussed above, we selected 39 watchlist records for subjects watchlisted by FBI headquarters without current terrorism case designations. These 39 records were associated with case designations such as fingerprint, administrative, and intelligence matters. Through our review of these cases, we found that in 31 instances the cases were either closed or the FBI could not otherwise determine why the subject had been watchlisted."


Whether we are talking the Patriot act or HR 188 whose only purpose is to circumvent due process, allowing punishment of those that are not prosecutable under law merely on suspicion of wrong doing, we are moving toward a totalitarian state. When belief or verbal support of a subject(and the subjects adressed in the legistlation are not simply terrorist related) is enough to warrant punishment and right infringement we have taken the first step toward the formation of thought police. If we as Americans(Rep, Dem or whatever) support legistlation that gives away our personal liberties in exchange for real or imagined security then the terrorists have won.
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Steve41
Never insult anyone by accident. R.A.H.
01:03 PM on 05/17/2011
Link to the DOJ report

http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/FBI/a0925/final.pdf