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Uncut from Northern Ireland
Northern Ireland. I have been to Northern Ireland many times and it's always been a great experience. I have only been there for a day at a time for a show and then onto the next place. The people are very friendly and it's one of the better audiences you'll get on a tour.
In all my visits there, I have never asked anyone about the history of the place, not wanting to bring anyone's blood to a potential boil. That being said, I have always been curious about Bloody Sunday, The Troubles, the IRA and what all that means to the people of Northern Ireland now. Depending on who you ask, the IRA (Irish Republican Army) were heroes fighting for the freedom of Northern Ireland or just criminal thugs who should be locked away or worse. It was an interesting concept to me, that some may see this group as patriots pushing back against an oppressive occupation. Some might say that's what's happening in Iraq at the moment.
I went to Northern Ireland to get a better understanding of what the last few decades had been like there and where things are now -- if there is peace or merely a cease fire. To be honest, I had no idea what we would get. What we ended up with was some of the most intense interviews we have ever conducted. By day we would travel and conduct interviews from all sides, trying to be objective and allow different points of view to be aired. By night, I would get e-mails from people who knew I was in town with very opposing views urging me not to believe what had been said by the ones they disagreed with. The whole experience was extremely heavy. Meanwhile, the countryside was beautiful and the food was great! I am still trying to get my head around all the things I saw and heard on this trip. I hope that what we present with this program will provide some perspective and inspire some thought.
Henry Rollins: Uncut from Northern Ireland
Friday, November 21st at 10:30pm EST/PST
IFC (Independent Film Channel)
A new Rollins documentary/live stage show every Friday night through the month of November only on IFC.
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Henry,
There is a new website called www.sharedtroubles.net which will contain the real stories from Northern Irealnds' Troubles. Due to launch at the end of November 08 the Sharedtroubles.net website allows anyone affected by the conflict to share their personal story regardless of whether they were a victim or ex-combatant. Stories directly from the people involved with out political editing.
Sharedtroubles.net will allow anyone to tell their story.
Henry...I fought with the cavalry in Iraq...there is nothing patriotic about al qaida in Iraq...they prey on their own.
Henry,
Have you read "Trinity" by Leon Uris? yes..an older novel..but for me...a total American (of Scottish/Russian background..but big deal)....I became AMAZED that there still WAS a Nothern Ireland..belong to the "landed" gentry....Also...why that book has NOT been made into a movie..beyond me...
I deplore violence...I also deplore "occupation"...
According to H-Block legend, the late martyr Bobby Sands recited "Trinity" from memory to his comrades at night to liven up morale during the Dirty Protest.
Hello Henry---
I lived and worked in Befast in 1976, and it was a transformative experience for a coddled, young woman from the U.S. I was a 'youth worker' in a Catholic community (anyone ever hear of the the village of Ligoniel?) My good friends lived in the Shankill and Knocknagony (sp?)
I lived in a flat with bombed out flats all around us. I saw "the Troubles" through the eyes of the kids in the neighborhood and my neighbors. Just being able to speak to people involved in something so horrendous was an opportunity for learning that no one can ever duplicate. It completely changed my ideas about guerilla war and the use of violence in our world. It still makes me feel guilty about flying back to the states and leaving them all there.
Hi Henry, I live in Northern Ireland. Congratulations, you have found out in a short time, something that every one in Northern Ireland knows. We are all CRAZY! Everyone in Northern Ireland is-CRAZY!. Our greatest fear, is getting up in the morning and not having someone to hate.
Mind you, it is a little bit rick, to be told off by a man, whose own country is involved in two wars.
I think the great Noddie Holder of Slade was correct when he sang.
"Henry, Henry, Henry, we're all CRAZY now"
Next time you come over Henry, drop in, sit a spell I'll show you my war wounds and sing, Danny Boy!"
What's terrible is that I now realize we in the states are crazy too (did you just see our election and we never learn about wars of agression).
And I bet you sing in a beautiful voice.
Good on ya, Henry. Have a Guinness on me and toast to the English leaving.
Ireland for the Irish!
I was in Northern Ireland in 2005, during the elections...very interesting times, indeed. I LOVED Belfast and felt as if I left a part of my soul in that city and in the county of Antrim (my ancestors are from this part of NI).
It was an incredible experience to see the immediate aftereffects of the cease fire. We were greeted with an overwhelming outpouring of affection and a plea for us to return and to spread the word for other Americans to "come to Northern Ireland, as things are getting so much better!" and while we never personally felt the tensions between the Unionists and the Republicans, we were all too aware of just how fragile this arrangement was. In these past 3 years, I have been encouraged by the political progress I have seen and am anxious to return to NI, with the continued hope that a REAL reconciliation of the parties involved will allow for a lasting peace and a realization that Catholics and Protestants alike CAN and MUST live together, for the sake of their children and grandchildren's futures. REAL progress has been made and the people of NI are indeed TIRED of the past and want to move forward. As Americans, with Irish/British roots, we owe it to our ancestors and the future generations of this beautiful and SPECIAL place, to continue to support their efforts NOT with arms or the financing of arms but with our business investments and tourism dollars. .
"REAL reconciliation of the parties involved will allow for a lasting peace and a realization that Catholics and Protestants alike CAN and MUST live together"
Catholics and Protestants have always lived together in NI (thats not to say there arent deep divisions and urban tribalism). But its mostly a myth propagated by parties on both sides, because they are mostly sectarian parties and as such with the people divided they stand and united they fall.
And just to prove that point further, I am a Protestant and my missus is a Catholic.
The fighters on both sides created an infrastructure to fund their cause and would do anything thing to reach what they saw as a righteous end. They created a criminal infrastructure to fund their causes. When they lost there cause they still needed a tit to suckle on. Alas the blowback, kind of hard to find a new way to define yourself, settle down and make a buck after becoming addicted to a certain lifestyle.
There is also a weird acceptance of certain types of the archetype criminal that is somehow weaved into the Irish psyche. All cultures have a degree of this mythical criminal hero but when I was around it in Ireland it was a tremendously strong part of their mythology. One of the more popular folk songs for years has been Whiskey in the Jar, check out the lyrics http://www.lyricstime.com/irish-rovers-whiskey-in-the-jar-lyrics.html . That said there are no better folk with such love for life.
Being 3rd gen Irish; growing up in neighborhoods of Irish immigrants and the neighborhood school and church, I understood how the division occurred. I understood how my family came to have to leave Ireland, as is were. I have friends from all counties. None wanted the Troubles; most got along with each other. Religion itself wasn't the culprit. It had to do with money, passport you carried and power. Everything comes down to the money!!!!! who gets it.. who has the power. Churchill wanted to erase the Irish language and culture.. he hated the Irish more than any other group.. England needed the Ireland, the island, as protection against intruders by sea. They distributed Irish land as payment for mercenaries they hired to fight battles on the mainland of Europe from the early 1600s. No way to fix all that history. But we can move on and work together to find commonalities.
Today is Nov 19, 2008 and time to bind all wounds...
I've been there.Random thoughts.
Most regular folk from both sides did not support the violence done by their own.
IRA, UDA and UDF, these organizations are more like mafia.
Extorting funds from local businesses with threats of trouble to those who did not pay, typical mob stuff. But they only shake down their own people, Catholic businesses paid IRA and Protestants paid the UDA.
In the 1960's the violence by Catholics was justified, except for bombs that killed women and children. All of the street violence confronting soldiers and cops, all of it was the right response to the abuse by the British.
One very justifiable fear by Protestants that kept them from giving up any control to Catholics was the Catholic church itself. Ireland (the south) had draconian laws on the books that were pure insanity because of that church.
The laws governing marriage, divorce, contraception, abortion and womens rights were a crime against the people. Smart liberal Protestants up North who enjoyed relative freedom were right to oppose that influence.
Most funding and much "legitimacy" for the IRA, came directly from the US, mainly from Boston and New York.
Though bombs and guns were used, Ireland is mainly gun free, with sensible gun laws like the rest of Europe.
Imagine how much worse things would have been there, if they had gun laws like we do in the US.
Both Catholics and Protestants drink Guinness, so should the rest of us!
Just to comment on the statement:
"One very justifiable fear by Protestants that kept them from giving up any control to Catholics was the Catholic church itself. Ireland (the south) had draconian laws on the books that were pure insanity because of that church.
The laws governing marriage, divorce, contraception, abortion and womens rights were a crime against the people. Smart liberal Protestants up North who enjoyed relative freedom were right to oppose that influence."
I would say there are a large number of Protestants/Loyalists who are more fundamentalist than "smart liberal". You only have to look at the fundamentalism, Christianist tendencies, of some of the leaders: e.g. Ian Paisley heading his own sect.
I would also suggest that the power the Catholic church now has over the Irish/Catholics/Nationalists has waned significantly in recent decades as the population now pursues a more secular lifestyle.
i'm in agreement with liam about this concept. it's a pretty american and anti-catholic idea. in all my years of researching irish history throughout the eras, this hasn't really been an issue in the north. the struggle has always been more about power, control, real estate and money than religion - that has been a convenient way to refer to the nationalists and the unionists, but is a generalization that doesn't really hold much water.
in regards to all of the comments about the ira and the uda, it's unsurprising but frankly a little depressing to read people reducing this situation to make it sound like the two sides are just a bunch of thugs who like to live a thug lifestyle. there has been no mention of the unbelievable oppression of the nationalists by the unionists or that the unionists had the funding and might of the entire british government and armed forces behind them, passed, enacted and enforced draconian and unjust laws to keep the nationalists in check and then funded and armed the uda/uff while insisting that the ira disarm or there would be no peace talks. the uff has been armed and active through the entire "ceasefire," only stopping their paramilitary activities in 2007. the whole situation has been lopsided, with the power and money flowing in from britain to keep their hold on these 6 counties at any cost. to me the comments here reflect more of the media's influence than the reality.
i hope that henry's show and his article here will encourage people to do more reading (outside of cnn stories about bombings) and learn something about the history of the entire situation and how it ended up how it is.
i agree that everyone needs to find a way to live together peacefully in the north of ireland. personally i think this would be best accomplished with by the british finally getting out of ireland and admitting that the days of the empire are truly over. that doesn't mean that the people who have lived there now for generations would have to leave - but the crown has no business in irish affairs.
i agree with rocky - ireland for the irish! up the 32!
Its great to see so many folks still focused on the 'Northern Six' even in (at least to NI standards) peacetime. Ive been researching 'The Troubles' for two years now for a novel and still feel that I've barely scratched the surface. It's referred to as the 'Dirty War' for good reason, being that the British threw everything but the kitchen sink at 'The Ra' for thirty years with little success, eventually even colluding with hardline loyalists to form anti-GFA groups to keep the sectarian fires stoked. The current snails pace of progress at Stormont is frustrating but far better than the senseless sectarian bloodletting of the past. Tiocfaidh Ar La!
Henry, these are the people i refer to.
Ive lived in NI all my life and never once heard the term "Northern Six". Good luck with you novel.
Its my understanding that its a term more likely to be used by republicans and many journalists south of the border. The BBC banned the use of the term due to the 'fenian bias' it expressed.
To Dorksforobama: my summary of the problems of Northern Ireland are that the British Commonwealth considers it a de facto colony. Those who see themselves as British in Northern Ireland are happy with this, those who see themselves as Irish are somewhat less convinced, to say the least.
My husband is a native of Belfast, who left 28 years ago because a Catholic in N. Ireland had an extremely difficult time overcoming the prejudices against him in order to make a decent living. The martial law the British used to force its government on the people of N. Ireland bears no resemblance whatsoever to Jews attempting to return themselves to their homeland and to defend that homeland against those who would invade it. I wouldn't describe those attempts at defense as terrorism by any definition.
I am really loving this Henry. You are picking up on the history that nobody else ever talks about. History will always repeat itself unless we stop and learn from it. But in this age of short attention span and self adoration, we need people like you to give it to us in an entertaining and thought provoking way and I sincerely appreciate that!
Henry,
Glad you enjoy Northern Ireland. Its my home and for all its problems, big and small, I will always love it, hate it and miss it wherever I am.
As for the whole issue of "The Troubles" I would sum it up very simply. "If you think you understand it then you definitely dont understand it". Its a situation that is in equal measure simple and complex which can be summed up with the obvious fact that; People are idiots.
regards,
Rich
Thanks for the post, Mr. Rollins. I just got back from an extended trip to Ireland & Scotland, which included a bit of time in N. Ireland. Belfast was a fascinating and strange place--trying to hike itself up to be more of a tourist & business center, yet wearing its tense history on its sleeve. Touring around the government housing areas, with intense, sometimes violent historical murals covering the sides of most of the housing project buildings, and walking by the Sinn Fein HQ was a somewhat surreal experience. I thought that after this much time in a state of peace, the tension would feel more remote, but it was still very present and palpable. From what we heard, it sounds like most of the conflict has moved from the arena of violence to politics, and hopefully there it will stay. But under the surface, it's far from resolved.
One of the foreign leaders PE Obama spoke to yesterday on a series of phone calls was Irish Prime Minister Cowen. Hopefully, this will be the beginning of a fruitful relationship between our two countries.
Thank you, Mr. Rollins, for being an artistic ambassador of true American values during these last dark eight years!
I hope so, as well. Unfortunately, Ireland has very little say in the goings-on of Northern Ireland. Even more unfortunately, Northern Ireland and Ireland are not the same country. Some would say that sums up the Troubles in a nutshell.
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