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Hilary Rosen

Hilary Rosen

Posted: February 11, 2008 04:42 PM

The Superdelegates' Dilemma


I have talked to many Democratic Superdelegates in the last few days and the one thing they all have in common -- they don't want to use their supervote.

To be sure, most everyone believes this year that the remaining primaries should be played out. I certainly do. My friend Donna Brazile recently said that if superdelgates pick the nominee before the primaries are over, she will quit the party. Most people have misquoted this as her saying that if the superdelgates pick a nominee at all, she will quit the party. She didn't say that.

She couldn't say that. Because given how Clinton and Obama are splitting the delegates, the superdelegates must vote to get either candidate to 2,025 -- the magic number for the nomination. Some of the superdelegates have already pledged. But most haven't. And they won't until after the primaries are over. But then there is little choice.

How did we get here? In the early '80s the Democratic electeds didn't want to have to run for their convention slot as a committed delegate like normal people did. So hence the "super" category. These folks -- members of Congress, Governors, State Legislative leaders, party officials -- etc. would get special status. Add to that a bunch of DNC Chairman appointments to assure diversity and repay favors and you have the crowd of superdelegates that exists today.

The last time that superdelgates picked our party's nominee was Walter Mondale over Gary Hart in 1984. That didn't turn out so well. But we didn't change the rules for superdelegates. I guess most people didn't think that Gary Hart would have beaten Ronald Reagan either so the party rules were never blamed.

Which brings me back to my original point. They don't want to vote. Yes they may care about which way their state goes and follow along -- but they are not all electeds. And even those that are electeds have constituencies on both sides. Women's groups, African-Americans, donors, etc. They don't want to upset anyone. Most people don't.

On the other hand, they all want to retain their vaulted superdelegate status. Why? because that status has meant something important in recent elections. It defines who gets the best perks at the party's convention -- extra floor passes, a podium visit, invites to better parties, leadership in the caucus meetings, guest passes to special seating, votes on the self-perpetuating rules, etc.

Oh dear, what is a party VIP to do?

Despite all the threats and pressures from all sides, superdelgates are just going to have to do the ONLY thing being a delegate actually means you MUST do under the rules and that is to VOTE. If we didn't want them to actually have the vote, we shouldn't have given it to them. And if they didn't actually want to have the responsibility of voting, they should relinquish their delegate status and the number of delegates needed for the nomination should be reduced by each resigning superdelgate. And ultimately, just like the rest of the delegates in this primary, every vote counts.

Sorry folks, there doesn't seem to be any way to duck. And that is a superdelegate's dilemma.


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12:32 PM on 02/13/2008
It is a mockery of democracy to leave the nomination to party hacks over the popular vote.

We don't elect the President by popular vote but why not the nominee?

Bullshit.
02:35 PM on 02/13/2008
heya mike,ok, so let's not have superdelegates -- or regular delegates for that matter.
let's just go w/ the popular vote fm ALL the states. not sure who that favors, if it favors anyone...
...NO MORE CHERRY PICKING FAVORED PTS OF THE PROCESS!
outcome determinative logic shdnt be the std.
10:33 PM on 02/12/2008
Yeah, sure. Obama is so squeaky clean those Republican operatives have nothing to smear him with. He will waltz through the general election without a blemish on his record. Plus we already know that Hillary's negatives are at 49%, right? It is easy to list those negatives, isn't it? Go ahead and try me.
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BrooklynLager
04:07 PM on 02/12/2008
Hillary Rosen was just on MSNBC saying:

"One of the things that's definitely being underreported is the threats coming out of the Obama camp: talks about how the election will be 'stolen' if the super delegates exercise their judgement."

1st) I don't think people saying they won't vote for a candidate who steals an election is a "threat". What people do with their votes is their business, and nobody's obligated to abide by the rules of an election that on its face would be illegitimate.

2nd) This was the purpose of this whole blog I think. Had people reacted another way, she would have said "I think this is all being overblown: super delegates have always played a process in the selection of candidates, and I think this is much to do about nothing".

So there you have it - damned if you do, damned if you don't.
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DRaymond
Network administrator, voiceovers
03:52 PM on 02/12/2008
"Dont want to use their supervote?" That's a laugh. They don't want their supervote to be the story. But I doubt they are hating the position of influence.

It is worth reminding that the principal block of superdelegates are elected officeholders so blanket characterizations of them as 'unelected insiders' are inaccurate.
03:19 PM on 02/12/2008
Isn't it time to replace the Chairman of this mess?
12:54 PM on 02/12/2008
this is what happens when you have a party chairman who: (1) lacks respect; (2) lacks gravitas; (3) b/c of 1 & 2, is totally incapable of leading the party and dealing w/ all this ^%$* (MI/FL, Superdelegates, etc)

Ron Brown is sooo missed and must be flipping in his grave.

yeeHAAAAAAAAW & GO DODGERS!
12:36 PM on 02/12/2008
End this elitist stupid incumbent mucky muck party insiders get to overrule the voters crap.

Can you imagine if Hart had beaten RayGun?!

Mondale, a classic party insider, never had a chance!
12:26 PM on 02/12/2008
Who is this "we" you are talking about who gave the super delegates the vote. As a registered Democrat, I certainly didn't. If this election is "stolen" from Sen. Obama i.e. 2000 Bush vs. Gore; by the superdelegates; or gaming the Florida & Michigan delegates in Clintons favor that will end my Democratic registration and will end any contributions to the DNC. I have friends and family who feel the same way I do. The Clintons will not get my vote, I am so very tired of them.
02:13 PM on 02/12/2008
am i the only one who sees the irony of an election being 'stolen' by, in part, NOT sitting the FL delegation?
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nypoet22
Psychology Ph.D., Civics Teacher, Songwriter
10:48 PM on 02/12/2008
I'm sure you're not the only one, but that's not the problem. I think the problem is too many people forgetting that this is a primary, not a general election. our first and foremost goal is to make our candidates and our party look good. the way to do this is to try to be as fair as we can, not snipe back and forth about who's been cheated out of what. i don't think it's a stretch to say that what happened with florida and michigan was not fair. Counting them as if both candidates had campaigned there would not be fair either. a re-vote with a full primary would be expensive, but isn't fairness worth it? i think superdelegates reversing the outcome of the overall pledged delegate count would also not be fair. if either candidate wins that way, said candidate will probably lose to mccain. would that be fair?
10:49 AM on 02/12/2008
While we're witnessing the most exciting and engaging political campaign in decades, all will be for naught if the people's choice (i.e., whoever has the most delegates entering the Convention) is overturned by political insiders who have pledged their loyalty to another candidate. If this doesn't change, the Democratic Party runs the risk of alienating all those who have turned out in record numbers to be part of the political process. What a shame it would be if the so-called Super Delegates turned out to be so shameless in the end.
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BrooklynLager
10:22 AM on 02/12/2008
I'm pretty sure this is just a trial balloon to see how people would react if the super delegates were to decide the election on their own.

The answer is "very, very badly." You'd not only have the democrats lose THIS year, they'd lose the next five or six elections - it would be 1960 all over again.
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BrooklynLager
10:22 AM on 02/12/2008
erp, 1968 rather.
09:38 AM on 02/12/2008
I really am tired of this superdelegate mock scandal. In particular, I am tired of these crocodile tears being shed in the name of democracy and fairness. Many states have open primaries and caucuses. That means independents and Republicans can vote for who the nominee of the Democratic party should be. Is that fair? We don't get to decide who the Green Party runs, or the Libertarian party. Why should they get a say in who the Dems nominate? Despite Obama's wins, more people have acutally gone out and voted for Hilllary... she is winning the popular vote. Is it really Democratic that the person with the most votes doesn't get the nomination? Dems didn't think it was fair when Gore won the popular vote, but Bush won. Is it fair and democratic that tens of thousands of people in Michican and Florida went to the polls yet don't have a say in who the nominee is? Please. Stop the whining. The only reason people are complaining about the superdelegates is because they favor Hillary Clinton. If the situation was reversed, all the people crying about how unfair this all is would be demanding the superdelegates go for Obama.
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BrooklynLager
09:54 AM on 02/12/2008
Well, no - both candidates have a fairly broad coalition of supporters who are wary of a stolen election for all sorts of historical reasons. I don't think it's unreasonable to insist that the elected delegates be upheld.
02:18 PM on 02/12/2008
The popint is that the elected delegates aren't chosen democratically either. IMO, the whole system needs to be revamped, but instead what we've got is Obama supporters furiously denigrating the superdelegates while not mentioning that some things that favor them (ie. caucuses and open primaries) are also not ideal.
02:17 PM on 02/12/2008
Exactly. Only the "tens of thousands" in MI and FL weren't just in the thousands - there were over 2 million.
09:17 AM on 02/12/2008
The "supers" need to stand down! This system makes the name of the Democratic Party a lie. My Congresswoman, Darlene Hooley from Oregon said yesterday (on Ore. Public Radio call- in program), she didn't care what the people of Oregon wanted, her first loyalty is to HRC and she will vote for her at the convention unless released. So there's a real "democratic" value for you. This super-delegate system is fraud and a scandal and should be eliminated immediately.
03:11 PM on 02/12/2008
Makes more sense to allocate the supers in proportion to the popular vote in their states.

To not do that would disenfranchise voters in states where some of their representation comes in the form of superdelegate votes.
03:20 PM on 02/12/2008
In fact, it seems like the whole superdelegate fracas is the flip-side of the Florida/Michigan issue.

Obama supporters, whose candidate stands to be hurt by including the FL/MI delegates are understandably against their inclusion and call it an unfair last-minute rule change.

Clinton supporters, whose candidate stands to be hurt by *not* letting the superdelegates vote are understandably against that and call it an unfair last-minute rule change.

Both are right in terms of the rules. Fairness is another issue. There are voters out there who interests are supposed to be represented by the Florida, Michigan and super- delegates. Leaving them out hurts those voters.

The fairest thing to do would be to somehow figure out the 'will of the voters' and allocate the uncommitted delegates proportionately. I guess you could do that by tallying the entire popular vote (though the mixture of primaries and caucuses would make that tricky). Or do it state by state. Probably one of those options favors Obama and the other favors Clinton.

In any case, it's not as simple as it seems, and people are being disingenuous in painting the superdelegate issue as a corruption of democracy. Democracy's in trouble either way.
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CindyV
03:29 PM on 02/12/2008
The democratic party is a private entity. It sets it's own rules. They party selects the nominee however it wants. It doesn't have to be democratic. If you don't like the rules, join the party.

I listened to conservative talk radio and mnay republicans are going to vote in the Democratic primary. Not because they "believe" in any candidate. They're doing so to create mischief as their primary is essentially over.

Should the democratic party allow republican mischief makers to decide their candidate?

The answer is no.
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BrooklynLager
04:21 PM on 02/12/2008
I agree - the rules are the rules. They were there long in advance of this contest, and all candidates understood them.

Within that framework, the popularly elected nominee has always gone on to be the democratic nominee - that result has never been overturned in the history of super delegates, who go back almost 30 years.

CAN they do it? Yes.
Have they ever done it before? No.
Should they ever do it in the future? No.
09:16 AM on 02/12/2008
It's rapidly reaching the point where NEITHER of these candidates will be able to win the November election.

To me, it is time for the two to make a binding pact, signed in BLOOD, that whoever wins the nomination will select the other as Vice President.

That might seem unsavory to the rather arrogant, other-worldly Obamaites. But when you think about it, Obama has so far LOST virtually ALL of the critical big blue states that are essential for a Democratic victory.

He has lost California (#1), New York (#2), and Florida (#4), in addition to several others. Without Hillary's support, he is road kill.

In addition, McCain is going to be more attractive to Independents than Bush was.

So for the sake of a Democratic Party victory in November, both sides should seriously consider signing this blood pact.
09:31 AM on 02/12/2008
Yeah, Obama is really going to have a hard time in CA, NY. Those are the TWO BLUEST states in the whole effin country. And as far as Florida, lets not even go there, you know it wasn't a contested election.
09:49 AM on 02/12/2008
Exactly right.

CA and NY are giveaway blue states in November.

Florida didn't hold an election. Obama's name wasn't even on the ballot for the joke in Michigan.

Obama won in ID, UT, CO, ND, NE, MO, IA, LA, AL, SC, GA - all states that voted for Bush in 2004.
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BrooklynLager
09:57 AM on 02/12/2008
I don't like the idea of a "unity ticket" - the symbolism of it is just too ugly.

I just think Hillary Clinton playing second fiddle to Barack Obama would look worse than it would if she isn't on the ticket at all.

And nowhere is it written that the second place finisher has earned the vice-presidency. In fact it almost never works out that way.
09:00 AM on 02/12/2008
No more "superdelegates". We are the Democratic Party. We are for DEMOCRACY, not a system in which the little people vote, but the elite people make the real decisions.

Let the people decide. Give a VIP pass to these guys and let them have fun at the convention, but their vote should not count for more than mine or anyone else's.
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SShaw490
07:27 AM on 02/12/2008
You know, everyone should stop panicing about the superdelegate issue. The overriding concern of superdelegates (if, in fact, they decide the nomination) will be that they don't want to back someone who's going to lose in November. If they do, their name is going to be mud. And in the final analysis, winning in November is EVERYONE'S endgame.
01:30 PM on 02/12/2008
Which makes their overwhelming choice, even for the most calculating political veteran, Barack Obama. I guess the message here is don't worry about it, since looking out for their own interests will most assuredly mean they end op looking out for ours.