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Hiroshi Tasaka

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3 Strategies for Fusing Science and Spirituality

Posted: 09/28/10 08:24 PM ET

What is the most important thing that will happen in the 21st century? The fusion of science and spirituality. That will happen. Why? Because this world in which we live changes, develops, progresses and evolves according to a certain law: the Law of Interpenetration of Dialectic. This law, advocated by German philosopher Georg Hegel, teaches us that "things which oppose and compete with each other come to resemble each other." If this Hegelian law is correct, science and spirituality will come to resemble each other, merge with each other, and fuse into a higher and greater "something."

Then, two questions arise in our minds: how will this fusion happen? And how can we promote this fusion? The latter is especially of great importance in the 21st century because now at the beginning of this century, both science and spirituality are faced with their limitations. So I would like to propose three strategies to promote the fusion of science and spirituality.

Strategy 1: Teach Modern Science in the Religious Community (Natural Sciences Approach)

When we learn the latest findings in the forefront of modern science, a sense of wonder naturally comes to our mind. For instance, according to the latest scientific knowledge, this universe was created from a "quantum vacuum" 13.7 billion years ago. At the beginning, the quantum vacuum created a countless number of bubbles that are called "baby universes." And most of the baby universes disappeared shortly after their birth. But among those countless baby universes, the universe in which we live has miraculously survived. A sense of wonder naturally comes to our minds when we learn this scientific fact about the creation of the universe, and this sense of wonder is indispensable for a religious mind and spirituality. Therefore, teaching the latest science is one of the best ways for people to gain a religious mind and spirituality in today's world.

Strategy 2: Deepen Modern Psychology Through the Wisdom of Traditional Religions and Spirituality (Human Sciences Approach)

The most important question for the science of psychology in the 21st century is "Who am I?" To answer this profound question, we need to explore the depths of our mind, especially the world of the subconsciousness advocated by Sigmund Freud, and the world of the collective subconsciousness advocated by by Carl Jung. But the wisdom of traditional religions and spirituality has already been exploring such worlds for the past several thousand years. For instance, Buddhism has been exploring the world of the collective subconscious through the notions of manas-vijñāna (the seventh consciousness) and ālaya-vijñāna (the eighth consciousness) for several thousand years. So, we need to deepen modern psychology through the vast wisdom of traditional religions and spirituality fostered throughout its long history.

Then, one important question arises in our minds: Where can we find and observe the world of the collective subconscious? In the Internet communities. If we look into the Internet communities, we can see and feel the world of the collective subconscious of people. Also, in the Internet communities, we can express different aspects of ourselves, multiple personalities, by using "avatars" or being anonymous. And this is one good way to find the answer to the deep question, "Who am I?"

Strategy 3: Create a New Economic Principle by Combining the Internet Revolution and the Wisdom of Compassion in Traditional Religions and Spirituality (Social Sciences Approach)

Modern capitalism has been based upon "monetary economy," which refers to economic activities of people motivated by acquiring money. That is the reason why modern capitalism tends to stimulate the greedy mind of people, and tends to become so-called "greedy capitalism." But the Internet revolution that started in 1995 has been reviving an old economic principle called "gift economy" or "voluntary economy," which refers to economic activities of people motivated by satisfying the mind, through, for instance, affection and compassion for other people. So, if we combine the Internet revolution, modern economic science, and the wisdom of compassion in traditional religions and spirituality, we will be able to create a "compassion capitalism" in the 21st century.

These are the three strategies that I propose in order to promote the fusion of science and spirituality. And this is not just a vision or strategies for the future; this is a movement that is already starting to happen in the world.

An invited contribution to the Ervin Laszlo Forum on Science and Spirituality.

 
What is the most important thing that will happen in the 21st century? The fusion of science and spirituality. That will happen. Why? Because this world in which we live changes, develops, progresses ...
What is the most important thing that will happen in the 21st century? The fusion of science and spirituality. That will happen. Why? Because this world in which we live changes, develops, progresses ...
 
 
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01:47 AM on 10/04/2010
Thank you for your article and sparking a very interesting discussion. Your insightful recommendations are thought provoking and commendable.

We humans are both blessed and cursed with the knowledge of our upcoming mortality. This terrifying fact makes us seek out comfort. In the fleeting time we have, we want to matter, to belong to something and/or someone. In addition, we flourish with wonder and revel in the satisfaction of a long faced mystery finally making sense. Perhaps these drives account for the powerful pull of religious belief.

Here’s an amazing video in which science delivers the incredible joy that comes from being connected to something bigger than oneself. It permits us to believe in and be comforted by what is. I hope everyone enjoys this video as much as I do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGK84Poeynk&annotation_id=annotation_656108&feature=iv

Some of my favorite quotes from the video are:

[deGrasse Tyson]
I know that the molecules in my body are traceable
To phenomena in the cosmos
That makes me want to grab people in the street
And say, have you heard this??

[Sagan]
The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it
But the way those atoms are put together
The cosmos is also within us
We're made of star stuff
We are a way for the cosmos to know itself
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emmanuel goldstein
Have you had your two minutes today?
05:26 PM on 10/04/2010
That was Awesome! Thanks & Fanned!
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Livinginthenow
Social Justice
05:12 PM on 10/03/2010
Dan and 8arrow, instead of demanding evidence from others, why don't you refrain from name calling, stop being intellectually lazy, and read up a little. There is plenty of work by science on the nature of spirituality and the mind. Einstein had plenty to say about this topic. Look, no one is trying to challenge hard science here. If you only want to examine the material world and deny the existence of anything else, it doesn't take a genius to see how irrational and closed-minded that is. As for the other thousand-plus posts, it is fascinating and invigorating to be a part of this discourse.
Here is an interesting link:

http://www.transpersonalstudies.org/ImagesRepository/ijts/Downloads/The Role of Spirituality in Mental Health Interventions A Developmental Perspective.pdf
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Livinginthenow
Social Justice
05:24 PM on 10/03/2010
Try this link

http://www.transpersonalstudies.org/ImagesRepository/ijts/Downloads/The%20Role%20of%20Spirituality%20in%20Mental%20Health%20Interventions%20A%20Developmental%20Perspective.pdf
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onionboy
Blessed are the Cheese Makers
10:33 PM on 10/02/2010
I don't see fusion happening. Frankly, I don't think it will help matters. Get rid of all sections at the bookstore. Alphabetize it all; fiction, non-fiction, self-help, children's books, biographies, etc. All of the literature becomes equal; romance novels are next to Shakespeare, graphic novels are next to military histories. It's so fair. It's also confusing. Compartmentalizing is not always a bad thing. You should regard spiritual facts with your spiritual self and scientific facts with your scientific self. Trying to have them see each other in an equal light is a noble failure. There is simply no compatibility.

A friend posited to me...what if science reaches the point where it can prove the existence of God, the soul, Heaven, Hell. He said that then scientists would have to believe. And I agreed and said that faith would also be dead. After all, what's the point in faith when you have proof?
09:27 PM on 10/03/2010
"if science reaches the point where it can prove the existence of God," you wouldn't have to believe, there is no doubt, therefore you would know. If that existence were provable, would it disprove atheism's "disbelief"? If it does, and the hypothetical possibility of proving God exists, then does it show that atheism is based on the "faith" of there being no God? Just curious ...
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onionboy
Blessed are the Cheese Makers
01:43 AM on 10/04/2010
No and no. If it's proven by science, you would not "know" in the sense you are describing. Something is either supported by evidence or not. Any other belief (ie not based on evidence) would be faith. Atheism is not faith precisely because it can be changed by evidence. In my fictional example, I simply said that there would be no need for faith if there was objective demonstrable evidence of God. I didn't say that it's erased or perverted.
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Charles L King
Retiree
03:58 PM on 10/02/2010
Both disciplines use very different, but widely accepted strategies for establishing the truth of an assertion. Usually, people who attempt to defend one method against the other have a very vague idea of the basis and rationale of the other method. Science, for example, uses the scientific method based on empiricism: hypothesis, test design, observation, replication and finally prediction. This is such a comprehensive and reliable approach that people trained in it tend to believe that there is no other acceptable way. They see the religious rationale as nothing but creative guesswork, accepted by ignorant people. Nothing can be further from the truth.

There is nothing creative about the basis of the religious rationale. Religion uses the method of evidence, not proof, but reiterated evidence over thousands of years. The evidence is the testimony of eyewitnesses, the kind of evidence upon which courts of law have condemned millions of men for centuries. The charlatans and false witnesses in both camps are too well known to require citing. For religion the corroborative evidence of first-hand witnesses over thousands of years is too overwhelming to be easily dismissed. Their first-hand accounts, called mystical experiences, are subjective, and cannot be replicated. For this reason a dispassionate court has to use the preponderance of the evidence, but the flood of written accounts of mystical experiences and epiphanies is so overwhelmingly huge and continuous to this day, that no rational man can ignore them, except by a deliberate effort of will, not reason.
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emmanuel goldstein
Have you had your two minutes today?
04:12 PM on 10/02/2010
Beautifully worded post. And while subjective experience is not within the real of science at this time in history, and may never be, there are scientifically proven ways to induce spiritual experiences. Not that the scientifically proven ways are the only way, but shows how science and religion can dance together.
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Dan Jighter
05:03 PM on 10/02/2010
Note how you are trying to discredit the scientific method from this notion that there are other strategies for understanding the world. By doing so, you seem to be trying to discredit those who accept the scientific method yet reject the religious method of your second paragraph.

No one disputes that mystical experiences happen. Really, all your testimony is evidence of is the existence of these experiences and what they are like. What is disputed is the conclusions they draw about the nature of reality from these experiences. We know the experiences happen, we just think your explanations of what they mean are made up and fallacious.

Why not apply the scientific method to understanding mystic experiences? Why prefer this religion over such a use of the scientific method?

I hate to say it, but you really don't seem to understand the perspective of me and people like me. Your posts are just erecting straw men. Seriously, what I doubt about religion is not the existence of religious scientists like Francis Collins or the existence of mystical experiences. Other than saying only ignorant people deny the scientific method and then proceeding to knock it in the way I described, you haven't refuted anything that I and those like me think.
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Charles L King
Retiree
07:18 PM on 10/02/2010
We're discussing methodologies not their conclusions. It's like you're asking why not use molecular science to explain quantum mechanics. Since we know that there must be much more in existence than we already know, it is clear that present knowledge cannot be used to make extrapolations to what exists beyond the parameters of present knowledge, just as molecular science or even Newtonian mechanics is not enough to explain such mysteries of quantum mechanics as entanglement, wave particle duality and such like. You use an immature (no insult intended just placing your logic in its proper place ) zero sum logical paradigm which is unable to accommodate two very different approaches to finding truth. In reality, neither method can "discredit" the other, because they examine different aspects of the truth of human existence. Both methodologies (separate from the disciplines) have contributed to the continuation of mankind's existence. Neither method has THE truth, both approach it. The simple but important philosophical difference between science and religion is that religion seems to think that it may be that the Truth may have a hand in approaching us. The scientist thinks it is preposterous to believe that indeed the mountain can come to Mahomet. The theologian has no difficulty with that proposition. Before there can be any fusion of the two disciplines, the theologian has the difficult task of presenting the scientist with her version of the answer to the question of, "How can these things be?"
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logicanada
Blogger, radio co-host, writer, editor, voice-over
01:11 PM on 10/02/2010
Bang on title for this article. A strategy is needed because the two can never co-exist naturally.
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emmanuel goldstein
Have you had your two minutes today?
04:13 PM on 10/02/2010
They can, and have, for a long time.
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Charles L King
Retiree
04:14 PM on 10/02/2010
Only ignorant religionists attempt to discredit the evidence of the scientific method. That is not the fault of religion. The two CAN and do coexist, once people realize that they view the truth from totally different levels of abstraction. If a leading scientist has a mystical experience which leads him to claim that he finally understands the realities of religion, and this has happened, should this immediately discredit all his contributions to science? Certainly not, so why then should his published account of his religious experience be equally discredited, even though he carefully explains that the experience is beyond his powers to explain or replicate and he wouldn't even want to try? ("If I tell you, you will not believe me, and if I asked you, you would not answer.")
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Dan Jighter
04:47 PM on 10/02/2010
I don't think anyone disputes that there are people like Francis Collins who fully accept science and use it professionally while holding religious/spiritual beliefs. So in particular, we would not reject Collins great work in genetics on the account of his religious beliefs. NO ONE claims that science and religion can coexist within the same mind and that this is where the conflict lies. You completely misunderstand why a nonreligious person would see a conflict here.

For nonreligious people like myself, we reject, say, Francis Collins religious beliefs on the same grounds we accept his contributions to science - on the evidence. There is sufficient evidence and careful, controlled, peer-reviewed experimentation to back up Francis Collins (and his team's) work. There really isn't evidence to back up his ideas in The Language of God and much of it seems to be made up as to reconcile/merge his religious and scientific views. Note that we are not rejecting that he may have had spiritual experience, but as you say these are beyond his powers to explain and we do reject him attempting an explanation by making things up.
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Dan Jighter
04:48 PM on 10/02/2010
Religious people do in a sense attempt to discredit the scientific method. They try to pretend that the scientific method has severe limitations that can't touch spiritual belief. When talking chemistry they are happy with empiricism, but when it comes to spirituality empiricism is dismissed as a dogmatic philosophy that doesn't address everything. They sometimes pick at the gaps in our knowledge, say regarding origins or consciousness. You yourself call them "different levels of abstraction".

This is where the conflict lies. People requiring evidence in the lab but not in church. Between those who apply evidence to religion/spirituality and those who don't.

What do you even mean by "different levels of abstraction"? Also, the world is concrete and tangible, why abstract about it? You should at least check if you ideas about the world are really true. Even with spiritual experience.
11:23 AM on 10/02/2010
Merging science and spirituality, absolutely. Merging science and religion, never. The dogmas of religion automatically create a series of preconceived notions that interfere with the process. By being religious, you are already asking the wrong questions. And since it has already been proven how the observers intentions influence the outcome, the religious mind artificially influences the research. Science is about tangible proof that can be replicated, religion is about belief and faith. There is nothing scientific about religion. Spirituality, sans the dogma of religion, leaves the possibility of understanding the interconnectedness of energy. The dogma of religion forces the observer to wear a filter that creates a very forced understanding of what actual IS. Therefore what they see, can literally be misinterpreted based on their religious filter. Perception becomes reality.
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Charles L King
Retiree
04:23 PM on 10/02/2010
> True, but the error is in thinking that it is irrational to believe in anything that cannot be subjected to the acid test of the scientific method. Mankind has come very far using the testimony of trusted individuals rather than demonstration. It is a method replete with error, admittedly, but it has also averted many a disaster and saved many a life..
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8arrows
Crushing my enemies and driving them before me
01:34 AM on 10/02/2010
Great! While we're at it, let's fuse our lunch with some arsenic! Why should mix "spirituality" with REAL KNOWLEDGE AND UNDERSTANDING? How is that even remotely desirable?

Look, I am an atheist. I don't believe in heaven, God, Yahweh, Vishnu, Thor, some kind of universal spirit, karma, or anything else that you people want to foist off on me. Is spiritualism real? No. It's a word used to describe real experiences that people have trouble putting into words. You want a spiritual experience? Go on a month long hike and contemplate how amazingly big the world is. That'll do the trick. But there are plenty of other ways; mostly based on people's own experience of the world. My point is merely that so-called spiritual experiences are not all that mysterious.

You want to tell me I don't get it? Go ahead. It will help me tell which of you have functional brains.
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Livinginthenow
Social Justice
02:18 AM on 10/02/2010
Clearly, you have a belief system that works for you. Not everyone shares yours, or mine. No one is trying to "foist" things on you. But when you state the things you don't believe in, you are correct. You don't believe in them.
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Dan Jighter
06:07 AM on 10/02/2010
You don't get it. 8arrows does not have a belief system. And the system 8arrows have it's based on what works for him/her. 8arrow uses thinks like logic and evidence to really try to understand the world. Sometimes that means discovering things that 8arrows doesn't want to be true, that doesn't actually work for him/her, but it is still the truth.

It isn't that we all have a belief system that works for you and that's okay. One could easily have a belief system that work for them and is total nonsense. It is about actually trying to understand what is going on in the world. Since we share the same world, our understanding of it more or less ought to be the same.

I wonder, can you name one spiritual belief, one element of your belief system, that 8arrows would likely not share yet still displays "real knowledge and understanding" about the world?
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emmanuel goldstein
Have you had your two minutes today?
05:25 AM on 10/02/2010
Hindus don't believe in Vishnu. Vishnu is metaphoric, and Hindus know that. Other than that, your whole post is nothing but arrogant hate speech.

"You want a spiritual experience? Go on a month long hike and contemplate how amazingly big the world is."
Or do any number of spiritual exercises from an number of religions. Thanks for your advice, but I'll take advice from people with less emotional problems and ego than you.
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8arrows
Crushing my enemies and driving them before me
06:06 PM on 10/02/2010
Ummmm. Didn't I say there were lots of other ways to have a spiritual experience? I seem to recall stating that most were based on people's individual life experiences. Perhaps you don't regard your religion as part of your life experience?

I don't appreciate your comment about "emotional problems and ego"; though. Combined with your prior comment it sounds an awful lot like you are saying I have problems because I am an atheist. I don't think that's what you are saying, but it's a cliche that I hear all the time and it's rather offensive.

I don't think there is anything wrong with seeking out spiritual experiences. I admit I get excited whenever people tell me that spiritualism is SO GREAT. But that's because I have outlets for my needs and I don't think there is any reason to pretend that there is some meaning to the universe.
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09:27 PM on 10/01/2010
Strategy 4. Double-blind studies on the efficacy of prayer and animal sacrifice. What works? What doesn't?
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emmanuel goldstein
Have you had your two minutes today?
05:26 AM on 10/02/2010
Animal sacrifice often involved spreading the sacrificed animals remains amongst the fields, which fertilized them.
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Charles L King
Retiree
04:26 PM on 10/02/2010
Thou shalt not tempt (test) the Lord Thy God!
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BOBinPS
Really?
07:31 PM on 10/01/2010
If there is any value in attempting to bridge science and religion (I believe there is) then the answer is simple. The religious need to accept that science is real. And that science is not threatening. And, discredit the religious forces that deny science.

In its essence, science tells us life is hard. The longer you live, the more pain you will suffer. Discouraging, at best. Religion, at its best, attempts to rationalize the pain. It provides hope for a hopeless condition. Life is a loose - loose. As soon as you are born, you start to die. It is biology.

Religion is not about biology. It is philosophy. For some, religious philosophy works. For others, not so much. Atheists seem just as happy to die without a promised wonderland. The religious cannot contemplate live without some promised salvation. But none of this stops the ultimate progression. Both are just coping mechanisms. Religion attempts to control what humans fear. Those who reject religion, are just accepting the fear. Atheism is not for everybody; especially the weak. Religion doesn't work for everyone as well, but it is unlikely to go away. Most humans need a crutch.
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Charles L King
Retiree
04:35 PM on 10/02/2010
There is no need to ATTEMPT to fuse the truth, because there is only one truth, even if you approach it from different directions. Small minds discount the possibility of there being a more comprehensive truth than the established truths of science. None of the great scientific contributors can accept that, since that is what they do, attempt to find greater truths, indeed the very structure of truth, not just a jumbled collection of facts.
07:25 PM on 10/01/2010
What happens when you fuse science with spirituality? You get "What the bleep do we know" and "The Secret". Which is nothing more than new-age mumbo-jumbo mixed with junk science.
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emmanuel goldstein
Have you had your two minutes today?
05:32 AM on 10/02/2010
What do you get when you mix science and atheism? Bombs, guns, weird lab experiments that create monstrosities...there are lots of good things too, but since you want to focus on the negative only, that's what I'll do. "Down the Rabbit Hole" is also a lot of hooey, as is Deepak Chopra as far as I can tell, but that doesn't mean all science blended with spirituality is hooey.

Meditation is a spiritual practice passed down for thousands of years, and is backed by science. There is one example to prove that it is possible, for another, try this:
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/press_releases/2006/07_11_06.html
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MagicManDoneIt
When facts are lacking. Just say...
01:24 AM on 10/03/2010
How in the hell does mixing science with atheism create bombs, guns and weird lab experiments that create monstrosities? Atheism is not a belief system, it doesn't lead to anything, it is simply stating a disbelief in a god or gods. How does not believing something lead to a particular behavior? You do seem to have Deepak Chopra pegged correctly, though. Meditation can be beneficial, much like a nap. So what?
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Barbara Graham
Comin at u from Area 5150
03:32 PM on 10/01/2010
When you try to merge spiritualism with science, you wind up with garbage like "intelligent design."

I belong to several online communities dedicated to various things and I assure you that the proselytizers, bible thumpers and mindless spewers of prefabricated arguments coupled with Bible verses aren't well received. It's not that we're mean, or anti-religion. It's just, if you bring something to the table you'd best be ready to defend it logically and intelligently.

I see absolutely no reason to even attempt to merge science and superstition, regardless of what Hegel observed. The argument, "You become what you fight," is somewhat valid, as you will learn your enemy's tactics.

I don't believe that religion and science are in competition. Science attempts to answer questions by applying a prescribed methodology. Religion attempts to answer those same questions by making shit up and expecting people to just unquestionably swallow it.

The only common ground I see between science and religion is the human brain's temporal lobe. That appears to be where spirituality resides.
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Marcus01
It all just seems like it's real
05:45 PM on 10/01/2010
Uh... didn't see anything in the article about spiritualism. Nothing about seances, mediums, contacting the dearly departed, or any of the usual stuff spiritualists do.
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Barbara Graham
Comin at u from Area 5150
07:12 PM on 10/01/2010
I was using not using 'spiritualism' in that context. I'm using it in the way people do when they say, "I'm spiritual but don't belong to an organized religion."
03:42 PM on 10/03/2010
and may you explain through your "prescribed methodology" who did you come to -Believe- that:

"Religion attempts to answer those same questions by making shit up and expecting people to just unquestionably swallow it."

Thank you
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rtgmath
There has got to be a better way!
12:38 PM on 10/01/2010
#3. Creating a new economic principle: Really now, many people on the internet are already demonstrating compassion and altruism, giving voluntarily of their services, time, and talents. However, one would be unable to find a way to eliminate greed from the internet. The internet is a place to sell goods and services. Those services may be free, but are often accompanied by other services designed to make a profit. If enough money is not made in total, the free component may be reduced or eliminated, and possibly the whole enterprise may vanish.

Web portals, ISPs and other parts of the web are not going to give away their services for free. Web designers will not give away their services, products offered on the web still have costs for production and maintenance. There are still electric costs, bandwidth costs, time and energy inputs. People have to make a living.

People have always been willing to help others. On the other hand, capitalism throughout the ages and its various formats has never quite been "compassionate." By our very natures we desire acknowledgment of the worth of our gifts, the value of our labor, the measure of our intellect. Pure altruism is probably unobtainable.

But generosity has always been a notable and worthy character trait. While we may not create a compassionate capitalism, perhaps we can be less capitalistic and more generous as it is in our means to do so, willing to be more grateful for our blessings.
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Livinginthenow
Social Justice
02:33 AM on 10/01/2010
Many people here are confusing spirituality with organized religion. As for the science vs spirituality argument, is it necessary? It's not a competition. One is a rigid and complex observation of the physical world; the other a deeply personal, subjective journey. If I am a scientist and you are a man of the spirit, what do I care? Maybe I can learn something from you, or vice versa. Do you really think either has a handle on the truth?
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Dan Jighter
04:55 AM on 10/01/2010
"Do you really think either has a handle on the truth?"

Yes, the scientist has a good handle on the truth, at least up to orders of error and statistical certainty. Spirituality doesn't have much of a handle on the truth, or anything other than BS for that matter.
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Livinginthenow
Social Justice
10:37 AM on 10/01/2010
I think everyone has a belief system by which they try to understand the world. There are many paths to take to try to understand the world, not the least of which is science. But science is limited to the physical world. Even science hasn't even begun to mine human consciousness. As for your comment "Spirituality doesn't have much of a handle on the truth, or anything other than BS for that matter", I can only infer that you've already made up your mind. So far, I haven't met or read anyone from science or otherwise who actually thinks they have it all figured out.
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chipchuck
Rethink that...
11:10 AM on 10/01/2010
The article is right, they are starting to resemble each other:

"Yes, the scientist has a good handle on the truth, at least up to orders of error and statistical certainty. Spirituality doesn't have much of a handle on the truth, or anything other than BS for that matter."

Very much the same quote used by religious movements to discourage opposition views.

Tell me, when will science start their version of the inquisition and crusades? The reason I ask is, I'm both scientist and spiritual believer, so I'll need to choose a side.

Science is nothing more than an organized religion of its own. The only truth we're getting out of it is a shared delusion among ourselves. How can anyone speak of truth, when we've been arguing over what "truth" really is since before the Greeks.

Don't act high and mighty, my friend, we're all still kids in the sandbox.
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07:38 PM on 10/01/2010
Good post. Many of those who argue the most strenuously against religion seem to have a very narrow view of it, mostly concerned with its external aspects without actually considering the core experiences they are based on. Arguments against religion without reference to its experiential aspects is, of course, very much missing the point.

To expect someone who has never had a religious experience to understand the point of religion is rather like expecting someone who has been deaf from birth to understand the point of listening to Beethoven. Best not to engage them in debate, but encourage them to find a way to experience it for themselves. Then there will be something to discuss.
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MagicManDoneIt
When facts are lacking. Just say...
01:31 AM on 10/03/2010
I've never had a religious experience. I've had experiences that some people may categorize that way, in which case I would say they have misinterpreted the experience. I am also hard pressed to think of a way to experience it for myself, since I would expect to attach a label other than religious. So, does that mean we can't discuss those experiences from different viewpoints? Seems like a way to avoid uncomfortable alternate explanations if that is the case.
researcher
researcher
02:03 AM on 10/01/2010
"Christianity replaced paganism... " Blodo?

well is this a true statement.

drinking blood and eating flesh may have some pagan dogma within it dont you think.

and the idea someone had to die to save humanity. sounds pagan to me.

and a angry god that has chosen people and nations. again sounds pagan to me.

and a god that takes sides in a war. again sounds pagan to me.

then we have a god of wrath that demands atonement. get my drift here.

sounds like a melting pot to me of a bit of each.

which proves the author's point.
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chipchuck
Rethink that...
11:11 AM on 10/01/2010
I have Ted Nuggent's "Kill it and Grill it" in my kitchen. Drinking blood and eating flesh is not bad with a little correander and dill.
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Blodo
Time to build a better world
01:00 AM on 10/01/2010
Nice post, Hiroshi. I agree that the world needs a new spiritual direction and that there are a number of things occurring that make this more likely. However, I would like to add that we also need to be aware of the forces within both camps (science and religion) that would be opposed to this. Religious dogma, specifically theism, is antithetical to the scientific method and belief based on the weight of evidence. Within science, there would be little support for propositons that cannot provide empirical evidence or generate testable hypotheses...as is the case, I would suspect, with most spiritual assertions.

I also think Hegel was mistaken. Things that oppose each other for long enough usually merge when one has pretty much conquered the other. Democracy and monarchy did not come to resemble one another. Parliamentary power slowly squeezed out the power of kings. Christianity and paganism did not form a synthesis; Christianity replaced paganism... regardless of whether the saints were a recharacterization of nature spirits. That's co-option, not synthesis.

My money is on science, but it will be interesting to see what the future holds. Peace.