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Holly Robinson

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Do College Costs + Retirement = Canada?

Posted: 09/10/10 02:12 PM ET

"So how long do you plan to keep working?" asked a friend recently, after he went on about his own crafty retirement plan (take his pension at 65, sell his Massachusetts house and move to Florida, play tennis year-round, live happily ever after).

"Um. Forever?" I suggested. "I plan to die at my keyboard."

I wasn't joking. Between the economic free fall and putting kids through college, my husband and I will be working for the rest of our lives.

That's why we made an offer on a house in Canada yesterday.

Why Canada? I've loved Prince Edward Island, Canada, ever since I started vacationing there some 15 years ago. The island is gorgeous (see photos at http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images?_adv_prop=image&fr=yfp-t-892-s&va=prince+edward+island+canada), laid back, friendly, green-minded, and there's fiddle music everywhere you go. It felt like home the first moment I hiked the red dirt roads between flowering potato fields.

"Yes, that's fine, but what about the winter?" various friends countered, so I tried traveling to PEI then, too, and found other things to love, like the ice fishing shacks stacked like bright Legos along Malpeque Bay and the snow tornadoes rising like long-skirted fairies in the fields.

But I digress. We made an offer on a house located in the remote eastern corner of PEI because there's no way that my husband and I can afford to retire here in the U.S. We haven't seen the inside of the house -- there was no realtor around, and we had to leave the next day -- but we peered into the windows from the rotted deck, and we'd seen the listing sheet online. We know that this farmhouse supposedly has five bedrooms and two bathrooms. We also know that the house is being sold "as is." That's a little scary, because Canadian realtors tend to be honest to a fault. When I surf www.mls.ca with these simple criteria: "Prince Edward Island, $25,000 to $75,000 price range, two bedrooms or more," I regularly read descriptions like these: "This house has been neglected. Needs a strong arm." Or, "Small country home that has been left vacant for a few years. Needs a real clean up. The property has no source of heat. Had a wood stove and previous owner took it."

With this particular house, the phrase that struck me was this one: "Being sold with furnishings and other items too numerous to mention." What happened to the owner, I wondered, that he would flee or fade away without emptying his house?

Finally, I called our realtor, Anne. She's a trim, no-nonsense woman who used to make her living fishing for lobster. Last summer, she showed me a few houses while wearing knee-high green rubber boots. "I don't know where the old fella went that lived there," she said, "but I can call his nephew down the road and find out more if you're interested."

That's how the island works: if you know one person, you know six, without any degrees of separation. When Anne called back, though, she couldn't tell me much. Apparently this was an estate sale, someone's children selling it for someone who had died. The old fella, presumably.

"What about the septic system?" I asked.

"Doubt anybody knows much about that," Anne said.

"How do I know if I'd have to replace it?"

"Guess you'd have to just dig it up," she said. "But I wouldn't recommend it. You might want to leave it be."

"You mean we'd just buy the house, and hope for the best?" I asked.

"That's about the size of things," she said. "If it fails, you'd know it."

This did not sound promising. On the other hand, if the old fella hadn't been using the septic system in a while, everything probably had time to drain.

So we made the offer, and now we're waiting to see if it was accepted. We'll find out this Friday. Meanwhile, I'm biting my nails.

Despite the fact that we love PEI -- and this house in particular, with its charming century-old architecture, peaceful farmland views, and proximity to our favorite beach -- I know that this plan is more whimsical than logical. For starters, we have no money. Like so many people, we were nearly flattened by the economic downturn. My husband was laid off twice and two of the start-up companies he joined went under. We struggled to stay afloat as our oldest child started college and we paid health care costs out of pocket for one year, then a second. We finally decided to sell our house and buy a smaller one.

That's when the real estate market crashed. Our first buyer pulled a runner after we'd gotten locked into buying the smaller house, so we ended up with a bridge loan for a year, until we found another buyer. Goodbye, savings. Hello, credit cards.

With no spare cash under our mattress, we'll now have to dip into our retirement funds to finance the purchase of this house. Yet another bad idea: Why take a 10 percent hit, rather than wait until we're old enough to pull the money out without having to pay taxes on it?

Our only arguments in favor of doing so are admittedly weak: our retirement funds are stagnating with the limp stock market, making us think real estate can't be worse, and the PEI house we want to buy is one that we can easily imagine loving full-time. Plus, it's for sale right now at an asking price that's half of its assessed value.

"Prince Edward Island is too far away," another friend complains. "Why can't you find a retirement spot closer to home?"

Where could we go? Ohio? Pennsylvania? Tennessee? Even those states are more expensive. We're not alone in thinking that Canada is the answer. Far from it. The number of U.S. citizens choosing to live in Canada hit a 30-year high recently (http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=2101397c-fe7c-4adf-a2d1-8665cb29ac66&k=0

The last time Canada saw such an enormous influx of U.S. citizens was during the political turmoil of the Vietnam war. Now, many are choosing Canada both for economic and political reasons. Our own reasons are simple: we love Canada, and the cost of living in the U.S. has killed us. Once our kids are grown, we imagine eventually selling this house in New England, which is about the same size as the one on PEI but worth 10 times more. We'll have red dirt roads and fiddle music, potato fields and freshly steamed mussels to keep us happy. We'll still be working until we drop to pay back our debts. But we can freelance remotely for the same U.S. companies from Canada -- my husband as a software engineer, me as a writer -- while we make goat cheese, have a few hens of our own and grow our own vegetables, all without a crippling mortgage and punishing health care costs.

It's a crazy dream. But it's less of a fiscal nightmare than what we've experienced here.

Or am I missing something? Should we back out of this house deal now, while there's still time to be sensible?

 
 
 

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09:11 PM on 09/12/2010
If you're serious and looking for a good resource on moving to Canada check out (We move to Canada), you'll get some useful tips there.
wmtc.blogspot.com/

Good luck.
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Holly Robinson
Author of The Gerbil Farmer's Daughter: A Memoir
11:13 AM on 09/13/2010
Thanks -- this is a great resource. And I appreciate all of the thoughtful comments -- even those from Canadians who would apparently rather let their old farmhouses sink into the ground than have someone from away come and live in them. Lots to think about here. That's the thing about blogging, isn't it? You air your views as you're thinking something through in order to get feedback, and the results can be wonderful comments, critical comments, and everything in between. Bravo to all of us brave enough to put thoughts on the page.
11:44 AM on 09/13/2010
Holly, it isn't about rejuvenating an old farmhouse. It's about freeloading As an expat who emigrated right out of university and paid my taxes for thirty-five years, I do look askance at those who want to move to Canada just to save on health care. I contributed in taxes, in community service, in volunteer work, etc. Crazycanuck11 hit the nail on the head. If you've nothing more to contribute than raising a few goats and remodelling an old house, you'd do better moving elsewhere.
12:17 PM on 09/12/2010
I lived in Europe a couple of times and witnessed the same thing. Americans willing to throw dollars at houses that are junk. You have no idea what it will cost to make that house liveable or even if its structurally sound. I'm in the same boat as you, 51. Putting my kids through college is going to push retirement way back or call for changes to our lifestyle. We're looking at downsizing early which will cut our household costs in half; that savings can be used to pay off the education debt. I'm all for education but its cost is ridiculous.
01:25 PM on 09/11/2010
without being too rude, why would we want you? the intent of Canadian Health care is for us to contribute all our working lives in the hope that there will be care for us when we retire (you know those high tax rates). It isn't for people whom have spent the better part of their lives living large, to come to us when they haven't saved enough and expect us to pay for their healthcare/retirement costs. With grown children and your comments, I can't believe that you will have the points/money/skills to come to Canada easily. In fact I think you will face quite a problem with immigrating to Canada.. I really hope so
Our healthcare is not free, it is paid for by taxes.
If on the other hand you have the skills/money to start a real business in PEI (not goat herding), then come on up. Or if you are a skilled medical practioner (we are short those). Launch your Software Startup, bring some VC money, employ our skilled talent and keep them from leaving, I am all for it. But otherwise PEI is just fine to visit, we love having you around, but don't expect us to be your cheap retirement plan.
10:00 PM on 09/12/2010
I agree! Buy a house in Arizona! I'm Canadian, and know lots of people who are buying houses there for less than 100K and renting them out. Canada isn't the only place with (some) cheap houses. I'm tired of hearing Canada ragged on by US politicians, etc. re: our health care system...and whadda ya know - its not so bad after all, is it? Stay in the US and fix the mess you are in as a country...we "socialist" countries will continue to enjoy our "free" health care.
Dharma kate
Monty Python wrote my bio.
12:59 PM on 09/13/2010
Oh for the love of pity... I don't know what part of the country you're pontificating from but in the Maritimes we NEED inbound migration. So bring on the Koreans, the Chinese, the western Azerbijanis and bring on the Robinsons. I hope they bring 8 of their neighbours with them as well to help pay property taxes, HST (consumption) taxes, income taxes, gas taxes etc.

My only regret is that I didn't have a chance to sell them on New Brunswick first. .. Fredericton's nice. University town. Quiet. Doesn't have the wind.... It's not too late to change your mind.
01:58 PM on 09/13/2010
The same part that you are in, and yes I am all for skilled immigration, but don't say the words -- I want to move to canada for free health care, and cheap education in exchange for raising goats. And if you can find a new immigrant korean/chinese who says I want to move to canada to raise goats and have cheap health care you are wrong.

I won't even go into the tax benefits (still paying US taxes), for someone with dual citizenship, other than to say its a lose-lose for Canada.
Fredericton is nice other than its in NB, the capital of Canada for crazy cancers, and genetic illnesses. Here is a question for you, how come the drive via the bridge through NB is a wasteland on my way to PEI.
10:44 AM on 09/11/2010
You failed to take into account that the middle class American dream is over - forever - and that your current house may well not be worth ten times the Canada house when you decide to sell it many years from now. The housing market in the US still has not hit true bottom, and it may take many years for even a partial recovery to pre-Crash levels.
05:55 PM on 09/10/2010
I grew up on Prince Edward Island, but have since moved to California. I would move back in a second if I wasn't so tied down here in America.

The biggest issue for Americans wanting to move to Canada will be immigration. Canada works on a point system. You get points for having a University degree, family in Canada, or for investing in Canadian business. The more points you have, the higher your changes of being able to successfully immigrate.

Also, once you have immigrated, no health insurance will be required (except insurance for prescription medication). All residents of Canada are covered by the provincially run health care. (In the case of PEI the heath care is very good).

Tuition at University of Prince Edward Island is about 5K per year last time I checked.

As for the weather... you get four distinct seasons. Hope to see you there someday!
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Holly Robinson
Author of The Gerbil Farmer's Daughter: A Memoir
10:19 PM on 09/10/2010
Thanks for the feedback! We're looking into dual citizenship and trying to figure out if we'll get any points for being self-employed and investing in a Canadian business, even if it's only goat farming and cheese making. I'll look for the California tan if you make it back there.. give me a shout next time you're up.
12:33 PM on 09/11/2010
Holly, dual citizenship and being granted entry as a resident into Canada are two different issues. (I emigrated in 1974 on a work visa, was granted landed immigrant status in 1976, and citizenship in 1982. I was able retain status as a dual citizen by way of being born in the USA.)I still had to jump through an amazing number of hoops to be granted resident status, from health to employability to educational back-ground to financial statements. Making cheese and goat farming are pretty low on the list of desirable qualifications for entry. Although I applaud your gumption, you need to really investigate the process before you invest in real estate.
04:21 PM on 09/10/2010
How are going to buy health insurance in Canada? Have you checked prices? Please share. We are in the same boat and looking for where to move from US. It is not affordable anymore. Health care and college tuition are killing us.
Dharma kate
Monty Python wrote my bio.
03:49 PM on 09/10/2010
Good Lord woman, have you checked the weather? PEI is the only place in the world where the weather office hangs a 10 foot length of 1 inch link chain out the window and if it's flying parallel to the ground, it's reported as "a light off shore breeze". And winter? Well, lots of luck to you dear.. you'll need it.

I'm serious. If you haven't been to the Island in winter, you might want to do a bit of research before you plunk down the cash. I'm from New Brunswick and did I mention the wind?
TryToBeFlexible
MENSA, Gay, Atheist, Believer in justice, age 57
01:55 PM on 09/10/2010
Uh, you can't use medicare in Canada. I would say that is the deadly stumbling block on your plan.
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Holly Robinson
Author of The Gerbil Farmer's Daughter: A Memoir
10:21 PM on 09/10/2010
Why would I need Medicare if I go for dual citizenship? There are certainly plenty of U.S. citizens living in Canada. Something must be possible. I'm still looking into this...and trying to be flexible...
07:04 PM on 09/11/2010
If you get citizenship status you would be automatically covered under medicare it's the Canadian federal health program. It basically covers everything but dental, vision or drugs. So you might want to check with blue cross or some other private insurance agent for additional coverage if you need it. I'm not sure how much it is as I've always been covered via work or school but I think it's 100-300 a month for a 'family' so it can be pretty expensive.

If you go to the Government of Canada web site under Citizenship and Immigration Canada there should be the information you need or you can probably go to a CIC (Citizenship and Immigration Canada) office there are a few scattered around the US.