The aptly named Mormon Matters blog has published an email containing an account of an "invitation only" meeting held September 19, 2010 in the LDS Oakland Stake in California, discussing reactions to efforts by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to pass Proposition 8 in California, which successfully amended the state constitution in 2008, so that same-sex marriage, which was briefly legal in California, was no longer recognized as legitimate.
The salient details of the report are this: The meeting was attended by Elder Marlin K. Jensen, official Church Historian and Recorder and member of the First Quorum of the Seventy. He "sat there and listened" as members "told of the suffering that Prop 8 had caused -- the division, heartache, anger, frustration and pain." He stated that "he appreciated the opportunity [to] come listen and promised to take what he learned 'back to the Brethren.'" After a final audience member "told him that the Mormon church owed the gay community an apology, [Jensen] stood and made a comment, which was paraphrased in the email as follows: "To the [extent that] it's within my power to apologize, I want to tell you that I am sorry. I am very sorry.' People were audibly weeping."
In a comment to the original post, LDS gay rights activist Carol Lynn Pearson, who was present at the meeting, offered her assessment of Jensen's statement:
The headline "Elder Marlin Jensen Apologizes for Proposition 8" is a bit misleading. I was present at the meeting. There was a great deal of pain expressed by a number of people about their experiences around Prop 8 and the larger context of church policy regarding gay people. It was a remarkable meeting, and Elder Jensen took copious notes and was visibly emotionally touched as he listened to the stories. At no time did he say anything like, "I know Proposition 8 was a mistake and I apologize for that mistake." He was responding personally and in general to the extraordinary pain he was witnessing. No one had a tape recorder, but I wrote down the words, "...Do we owe an apology? I will say I am sorry. To the full extent of my capacity I say I am sorry." It was a sincere and moving statement. It would not be constructive to make his statement sound like something it was not. The meeting itself was an historical event, for which I and many others are deeply grateful.
It is heartening that one member of the LDS church's vast hierarchy has the courage, compassion and human decency to publicly offer sympathy and regret for the suffering caused by the actions of his church -- almost two full years after Prop 8 passed. Jensen's single, brief statement stands in sharp contrast to the volley of rhetoric before the election -- via letter, radio broadcast, and over the pulpit -- warning of the suffering humanity would call down on itself if society continued its trend of legitimizing gay marriage. A sample of the language Mormons employ to make this point can be found in the LDS Proclamation on the Family, which "[warns] that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets."
The contrast between Jensen's statement and the penultimate sentence of the Proclamation on the Family raises many questions. Pearson is absolutely right in stating that "[i]t would not be constructive to make his statement sound like something it was not," which is all the more reason why interested parties should seek clarification from the LDS corporate hierarchy. Here is some of what needs to be addressed: What exactly does this apology mean? To what extent is Jensen empowered to apologize for the church's power structure? Will additional, more explicit, more comprehensive apologies be forthcoming?
Or will Jensen be censured? Mormons are trained to accept that when a general authority speaks from the pulpit, he (and it is indeed always a he) represents the entire church -- and, by extension, God. (And let's remember that the Bible contains an account of God apologizing to humanity -- that's what rainbows are for, to remind us that God is sorry for the time he drowned virtually everyone, after he was sorry he created humanity in the first place.) Will a statement nonetheless be issued informing both Mormons and non-Mormons that Jensen spoke only on his own behalf and expressed only his own sentiments? If so, it will be interesting to see LDS leaders explain that they are not really sorry for the suffering that Latter-day Saint involvement in the passage of Prop 8 brought to Latter-day Saints.
Jensen's statement, a tacit acknowledgment of the leadership's responsibility in bringing grief to both its own followers and those outside the church, also stands in contrast to efforts since the election to minimize the importance and extent of LDS involvement in the passage of Prop 8. At the very least, let's hope that the statement marks the end of dishonest, disingenuous claims that financial and practical support supplied by Mormons was anything but crucial in the success of Prop 8 -- or came from anything but the behest of the leadership.
In a summary posted on her website, Pearson reports that "Elder Jensen added that in his experience the general authorities of the Church are as good-hearted a group of men as could be found anywhere, perhaps not perfect, but trying hard to do what is right and that they entered the Proposition 8 campaign without malice."
But absence of malice is not a high enough standard for judging or excusing the actions of men who claim to be singularly empowered and authorized to lead God's one and only true church on earth. If these men want others to forgive or excuse the harm they do in the world because they acted "without malice," then they need to stop claiming that their actions are guided by divine inspiration that enables them to know God's will, and start admitting that what guides their actions instead is their own biases, prejudices, ignorance and fear.
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The Packer the old charmer made it clear "the old way or the highway"
Then another flap
Followed by Ottenson and his S M O O T H talking about being nice
Followed by the elders making sure that "nice" includes domination -- including going after a US Constitutional Amendment to make THE MORMON POINT OF VIEW national law
http://beta-newsroom.lds.org/official-statement/same-gender-attraction
The transcript is below the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDceBHOgm6A
It's like asking Alcoholics Anonymous to apologize for speaking against drinking.
ALL you guys have to do is make up for, in a meaningful way, the damage and hurt done by
the busybody meddling in California, with the truly vicious fear-mongering commercials.
ALL I have to do is forget you -- I did not care about you before, you can do whatever you want if you get over the delusion that meddling in others lives "to follow God" is justifiable.
YOU guys make me angry by BLAMING THE VICTIMS, LIKE ANY BULLY DOES.
I personally hurt for the non-members and members of your "church" in Utah who might feel oppressed --- but I USED to be able to say, "Just move to California and be accepted"
YOU CAME TO OUR HOME AND DEFAMED US, WHILE REMOVING OUR RIGHTS,
so stop "playing hurt" and act like Godly adults.
Alcoholics Anonymous DOES NOT TELL PEOPLE NOT TO DRINK, it helps people who decide their drinking has become unmanageable, and arrive on their own (except for court orders)
Al-Anon is for those who have been affected by others' drinking. The typical Al-Anon finds him/herself feeling responsible to fix everyone, but finds serenity by learning to do that no more.
Perhaps you and other PUSHY RUDE Mormons need a 12-step program for sanctimonious busybodies who feel it is their job to be God's policemen.
Despite your statement, AA does not advise its members to drink alcohol. From their website, "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking."
But let me use the government as another example instead. Asking for an apology from the LDS church, fighting for marriage and the rights of children, would be like asking for an apology from a state government for setting speed limits that help protect people and the environment.
You state that "you can do whatever you want" as long as you are not "meddling in others lives." Do you not see that your comments on this blog are meddling? That every vote cast, for or against, Prop. 8 was meddling? If you state that homosexuals should have a special right to marry a person of the same sex, you are not being neutral. You are advocating for this viewpoint.
Or are you stating that Christians should not have a right to vote or are you stating that they should not have a right to speak in public?
I will not take the time to address all of the unproven assumptions you have made so I will leave you with this.
"...stop "playing hurt..." were your words. Then please stop your persecution.
The LDS Church preaches that the appropriate place for sex is between a man and woman in a marital relationship. Sex is the means for bringing His children into this world. The commandments come from God. This commandment will not change for unmarried adults, adulterous adults, prostitutes, etc.
These same leaders counsel members to serve each other, stay out of debt, take care of yourself, show respect to others and take an active role in the community (service, politics, etc). Many of the LDS beliefs are diametrically opposed to the secular belief of the gay community. The gay community will never befriend/align with the LDS Church in any way due to this religious values/secular values conflict. We believe that we can have respect for others (fellow sons and daughters of God), but disagree on issues of values and policy and that our religious views don't disqualify us from the public forum.
maybe we would not be "unmarried adulterous prostitutes" in California, where we vastly outnumber you, if you had any concern for what Jesus said and how he treated others.
We could be "married people of another belief", even if you did not recognize the marriage.
All that history of a "church battling persecution" --- which is a great gimmick for banding suckers together --- has taught you how to fight below the belt.
EXCEPT IN THE LANGUAGE OF THE PLANET "NEVERWRONG"
which is somewhere out near he planet Krapton and its thrird moon of Moroni
It's something to see the mormon church squirm in it's decidedly lack of devine leadership on issues like polygamy, women's issues, Book of Mormon DNA, Book of Abraham, and, ooops, blacks are people too. Today's version, denying secular rights equal protections to tax paying citizens of the United States. You know, the mormon church could apologize and even, maybe get a pass. But mormons, I have to ask, how many blunders does it have to be, how many issues of great importance to the souls of men/women do you have to find yourself on the wrong side of, before you see the obvious? A man made religion lead by the philosophy of men?
Occams Razor?
Another 18 yr old suicide due to exposure
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/29/dharun-revi-molly-wei-charged_n_743539.html
Look at his young face in the photo
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2010/09/hold_new_rutgers_post.html
KEEP TELLING YOUR KIDS THAT WHO THEY ARE IS NOT WHO THEY ARE, MORMONS--
and reap the results in Hell
Mormons ---- I know you don't care, deep down, about any other of God's children, other than those you might convert.
But you messed with several million young people in California that might be Gay, have Gay friends, are potential Gay bashers, etc -- You paid to tell them on TV that Gays are going after the schools to convert children, etc etc.
This kid in NJ had doubtless heard of Prop 8 --- everyone has
IF YOU DON'T KEEP TO YOUR OWN SIDE OF THE FENCE, MAY GOD TAKE AWAY YOUR RICHES, YOUR LANDS, YOUR TEMPLES, YOUR BUSINESSES.
The worst persecutors are the formerly persecuted
That's what church is FOR, dearheart.
It has ZERO place in public law and policy.
A lesson, long overdue, that heterosexuals of all shapes, beliefs and varieties are about to learn en masse via our judicial branch of government.
And as for what the Bible teaches, I read the Bible quite differently it seems. I am a member of a religious group that celebrates same-sex couples. We feel it is our religious imperative to treat all couples the same. That includes celebrating their unions with legal marriages.
No one is demanding that you read the Bible as I do or follow the practices of my religion. Why do you get to dictate how I follow mine?
If you don't like it, it does not matter, because bloodygood is your God, and commands you to stay where you do not feel welcome
This is why mormons are disliked --- they tolerate some of their members being fascists
I've been out of the church a good six years now with no plans to return.
If all the shite the Church of LDS pulled was done "without malice" can you imagine what they'd be like if they tried to be evil?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PgjcgqFYP4
Or perhaps this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLHWBWSaW-4&feature=related
The rather Gay looking husband is the grandson of a mormon elder. He and the chunky wife, according to what I read, moved to that district and ambushed the teacher, then brought a suit which was called frivolous by the judge.
FEAR TACTICS -- DEMONSTRATED BY A SET-UP, NOT AN ACCIDENTAL INCIDENT
"homosexuality is going to be included in all classes, including math, in all grades"
I shut it off and put on Mazzy Star, "Fade Into You." It makes me feel sad in a better way.
This IS malice -- and just plain evil
Fear will melt before courage,
Dispare will fly before hope,
Darkness will yield to light.
I pray that more in the LDS Community have the courage to right the wrong committed by their Church. For once upon a time, they were outcasts too.
When I had a family....
My prophet done told me...
Son!
Those queers might make your kids think..
With all of their big talk...
And when that big talkin's done....
Your boys might be fairies...
Your girls might be Ellen...
And mess up your afterlife, son!
A queer is a two face -- a worrisome thing that might lead our Treasurer to sing
The Blues.... in the night
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-aWKCNkhC4&feature=related
None did the level of organizing and support that the LDS supplied.The Yes on 8 campaign was funded and organized by the LDS.
http://nomexposed.org/
A Newsweek story about it:
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/28/web-site-documents-nom-supporters.html
They took the tone of a cheap expose, which probably thrilled the smug folks that created it, but will turn off reasonable people who go to check it out.
Like the "No on 8" commericials, which created more YES votes by saying, more or less,
"You are a terrible person if you don't vote no, we are so obviously right, protect us from the mean horrible other side, or be stupid"
Gods.