The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that the family is the basic unit not just of society, but of heaven and eternity. A familiar LDS slogan is "Families Are Forever." Latter-day Saints focus much of their resources on families: forming families by marrying, growing families by having children, strengthening families through church activity, defending families from influences or situations they deem threatening. The controversial talk delivered by Elder Boyd K. Packer at the October 2010 General Conference, in which he called homosexuality "impure and unnatural," was in many regards about families, for Mormon doctrine requires families to be defined and constructed in very particular ways.
But Packer's ideas about family, society and threats to both are short-sighted and narrow. Consider this statement:
History demonstrates over and over again that moral standards cannot be changed by battle and cannot be changed by ballot. To legalize that which is basically wrong or evil will not prevent the pain and penalties that will follow as surely as night follows day.
However, history clearly demonstrates that moral standards can be changed by battle and ballot. The American revolution, the French revolution, the American Civil War and the civil rights movement are all examples of moral standards changing through a combination of battle and ballot.
The dreaded, threatening change hinted at but not named explicitly in Packer's statement is, of course, gay marriage -- or even greater social acceptance of homosexuality.
On Oct. 12, I attended a press conference at the Utah Pride Center. There, Joe Solomonese of the Human Rights Campaign and others responded to Packer's talk before delivering a petition to the Church Office Building in downtown Salt Lake City -- a petition bearing more than 150,000 names and printed on more than 800 pages -- requesting that Packer correct his remarks, particularly in light of recent suicides by youth bullied and abused for being gay, whether or not they even were.
Defenders of Packer and the church's position on homosexuality insist that nothing in Packer's talk advocated violence against anyone in the LGBTQ community. But nothing in his talk condemned or prohibited it, either. Nothing in his talk encouraged members to embrace loved ones who are anything but heterosexual and conventionally married. Instead, he said, "Parents be alert, ever watchful, that this wickedness might threaten your family circle."
I stood outside the Utah Pride Center, the dome of the Utah State Capitol visible in the distance behind the speakers, and listened to social worker Melissa Bird make the horrifying and all too accurate point that Utah has a severe problem with homeless youth, especially LGBTQ youth. Many of these young people are homeless because they have run away or been thrown away, she said, cast out for being gay from the very same families that taught them as small children that "families are forever." And is that tragedy really surprising, I ask, when the man who is second-in-command in the Mormon church warns parents to be "watchful" of this "wickedness" that will threaten their family?
While Packer has not corrected the truly offensive elements of his talk, it was altered in subtle but significant ways before being published. And the statement from the church in response to the HRC petition also contained rhetoric that made many members hopeful that meaningful change is occurring in the way the church frames and deals with LGBTQ issues.
But the church needs to be more generous and loving in its basic approach to families -- all families, not just perfectly constituted LDS families. Consider, for instance, the issue of temple marriage in North America.
Righteous LDS couples marry in the temple. In order to participate in or observe ceremonies in an LDS temple, you must have a temple recommendation, meaning that you must be an adult who has been baptized into the Mormon church, attends meetings regularly and pays tithing (among other things). If you are not LDS, you cannot go to any ceremony conducted in the temple, including the wedding of anyone in your immediate family.
This does not matter in most countries, where marriages must be performed by someone with some sort of civil authority, such as a judge or justice of the peace, in order for the ceremony to be legally binding. LDS couples throughout Europe, for instance, have a civil ceremony to which they invite anyone and everyone they want, then have their religious vows solemnized in a temple, often within the same week.
In North America, however, LDS couples who choose to have a civil ceremony are penalized when it comes to the temple. Any couple who chooses to have a civil ceremony must wait a full year before solemnizing their marriage vows in the temple -- no matter what. Even if they are fully obedient members of the church innocent of any sin that would bar them from the temple, they are still considered unworthy of a temple marriage for a year.
As a result, most North American LDS couples choose to have only a temple marriage, and family members who are not active LDS adults cannot attend the ceremony.
Most people find it barbaric, cruel and utterly incomprehensible that a church that claims to value families denies family members the chance to be present at a wedding, which most of the world considers a joyous celebration that should involve an entire family. Parents whose children have joined the LDS church are understandably hurt when they are forbidden to attend their own children's weddings.
It didn't generate any headlines, but three days after the HRC delivered its petition with 150,000 signatures, another group delivered a smaller but still important petition to the Church Office Building. Representatives of the Temple Wedding Petition asked the LDS church to change its policy of penalizing North American LDS couples who want civil ceremonies. (They're still collecting signatures, so please sign here.)
Unlike the matter of gay marriage, the decision to allow LDS couples to take both civil and religious marriage vows should not require any scrutiny or reflection. In fact, it could be a way for the church to maintain its "principled opposition" to gay marriage no matter what the rest of the country ends up doing, since the ceremonies in the temple would be clearly distinct from and result in a different kind of union than ceremonies performed outside it.
It would also be a way for the LDS church to show that it values and respects all families, not just those that swell its membership and advance its own goals.
Follow Holly Welker on Twitter: www.twitter.com/hollywelker
LDS Temples - Mormon Temples - Temples of The Church of Jesus ...
Temple (Latter Day Saints) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Temple Marriage - What is a Temple Marriage - LDS
The Church and Gay Marriage: Are Mormons Misunderstood? - TIME
Mormon Leaders Reaffirm Stance Against Gay Marriage Following Dissent
YouTube - Mormon Temple Marriage
Mormon Church Fined In Connection With Anti-Gay Marriage Campaign ...
Is it ethical to treat people differently? No.
Is there a 'gay' gene? I don't know. I wish I had studied more science in school.
I do know that life is competitive and as in other animal societies there is competition for mates. I did a study in college on the effects of crowding on rat populations. As crowding increased and the competition for mates increased a certain percentage of the population stopped competing for mates and spent more time grooming. Was this grooming behavior a social function or a genetic predilection? I know the study was not conclusive but I still think about it when this discussion comes up.
I know that humans are more complex than rats, but on the very primitive brain level we are driven by some very basic primeval goals including survival and reproduction. Since the beginning of time humans have sought pleasure and gratification, it is part of the human condition. It is not right or wrong it is just who we are.
I am happy with who I am. If that changes I'll call you.
http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2010/11/colt-david-hansen-clash-with-mormon-faith-leads-to-another-lgbt-suicide-in-utah/
Even in death, his family refuses to acknowledge the reality of their son's life and continue to claim him as a member of their church. For these parents so loved their church, they forsook their son.
DOES A GAY KID HAVE A CHANCE IN CIRCUMSTANCES LIKE THAT?
When you raise a child in circumstances that DEMAND church membership to have family acceptance, you take the risk that, if the child is "different", not being able to fit the circumstances will damage him.
Too bad the recent "pretty speeches" of the church leaders did not happen 20 years ago --- perhaps this young man might have found acceptance.
A reply to me from "ShellyintheWest"
.....Mormons have rights to vote, just like you. All churches are protected under law to speak out on moral issues. You just want to make it more than it is.
OK, GOT IT, HERE IS THE DEAL, THEN....
Turn the clock back to 2008, and give each mormon and each Gay adult ONE VOTE in the Prop 8 election --- just those 2 groups
OOOOPS! --- how did the group with ONE EIGHTH the number of people prevail? Could it have been all that money and effort from Utah?
You guys HAVE to grab at off-kilter explanations, degrade the discussion with the persecution complex, etc. because you ARE wrong and you WERE wrong.
There were about 2,800,000 people in Utah last year --- if 1/10 of California's population is Gay
(probably higher, because so many Gays move here), that is 3,700,000 people ~30% more
What if the Gays organized against YOU the way you organized against THEM?
OF COURSE, this is silly, but so is every argument from mormons on the subject, assuming we believe church and state are separate in the USA
I would imagine that the business conglomerate and political machine that is today's mormon church would cause Jesus to REALLY want to drink.
Non-mormon family are not asking to be allowed into the temple (see http://www.templeweddingpetition.org/enter/index.html ). We are asking the LDS church to change a policy and do away with the one year waiting period for otherwise “temple worthy” couples (as they have already done in many countries). Doing this would allow for both an inclusive ceremony and sacred religious rite.
If LDS leaders were sincere about their pro-family PR they would put people before a policy, they would foster conciliation instead of estrangement, they would encourage couples to build bridges to their non-Mormon family instead of insisting that they burn them.
They need YOU to convert, so they get more $$$$$$ and power -- otherwise you get left in the dust.
If they make the policy easier, they WILL help relations with non-mormon family members -- you are right. BUT they don't really care about that in comparison to cementing the relationship of the members in good standing to the church.
They need her to place the church and her new family she creates with her husband ABOVE YOU, because it must be the center of her life, not her outside family.
If your daughter has truly drunken their Kool-Aid, she is much less upset than you, because she will have swallowed their thinking.
The conciliation you look for MIGHT arrive eventually, just as the conciliation toward Gay members might arrive at some time in the future.
FOR NOW, THE PLAN IS OBVIOUSLY
"SAY WHAT MAKES US LOOK GOOD IN THE WORLD, BUT HANG TIGHT TO THE POLICIES THAT HAVE WORKED FOR US"
All you have to do is read the church blogs, and some of the stuff below, to realize that applying outside logic and feelings to form expectations of this church is a losing venture.
LDS church leaders are aware of the pain their policy causes and they don’t care. With all things Mormon, it is about control and money.
Mormons are taught to obey the dictates of their church leaders without question.
There are a lot of Mormons who remain just active enough to keep a temple recommend so that they won’t experience of being told to wait outside while someone they love is married inside. Being “just active enough” means they pay tithing. Doing away with the one-year punishment would risk losing that revenue.
That they won’t change their policy exposes them as frauds.
We have good relationships with our daughter and her husband (who is a terrific guy) because we have all worked at it. But I know many other families where it hasn’t worked out so well. LDS church leaders share the blame for those estrangements.
Even if it is or is not a sin, society has a right to protect the institution of the family. All governments throughout time have done so. Homosexuality is a maladaptive behavior and does not support and sustain the scientific and moral model set forth as a family. Most countries have actually had the death penalty.....
SO---
A-- TO PROTECT MORMON FAMILIES, you guys want to make the natural, God-given urges of some of the family members verboten -- preferably wish them away????
B-- TO PROTECT OTHER FAMILIES -- you guys are God's cops, right?
STILL WAITING FOR MORMONS WHO DO NOT EXCUSE THE POLITICAL ACTIVITY.
Again, re the TV commercial for Prop 8, NOW, etc
Do mormons get a free pass from God on" THOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS"?
in their way of thinking --- like the moneylenders at the Temple, they have made their enterprise more important than God or other human beings.
Since they claim that Jesus Christ is the head of the church, maybe they will have a revelation that he weeps to see what they do in his name.
How much goes to TV commercials, pushing the religion to cultures which do not want it, and political activity such as Prop 8 and NOW?
Anyone know?
Stay classy mormons........
Now I call myself an "equal-opportunity heathen" and help various groups, some religious and some not, who help the needy. But I only volunteer for those groups who do not discriminate in choosing who they help.
SINCERELY --- NOT ONE mormon has posted anything on any of these threads which sounds as if the urgency of change is coming through. (ie-- "everyone at MY stake was horrified at Packer and we are holding back our tithes", or "I hear terrific rumblings in Salt Lake, and the church can soon be expected to announce it will stay out of non-mormon business and withdraw from NOW"
--- yeah, I dream! (a few people mention they have left)
TRULY, HONESTLY --- I feel that each and every member who stays in a religion that has promoted and created such tremendous hurt toward God's sons and daughters is equally guilty. The nicest lady is perhaps worse than Packer, because she knows she is facilitating more years of hurt until the "revelations" come.
AT LEAST A FEW SEEM SORRY --- but I, not raised with "my church is the one church" thinking, cannot fathom why you arent all marching around the temples.
I CANNOT PERSONALLY UNDERSTAND HOW A MERE RELIGION SHOULD COME AHEAD OF LOVE FOR GOD'S CHILDREN AND ACCEPTANCE OF HOW HE MADE THEM
Tonight, I drove past the LA temple: it is just a symbol of "These people allow hate to be aimed at you, and they are not going to change"
Again, your hate is getting in the way of an ally wanting to help. I will not denounce or leave what I feel for me is right much as I do not ask anyone else to leave what they feel is right for them.
I do not stand behind all of the actions of the LDS church, much like I am a Democrat and don't stand behind all of the actions of the Democrats although I donate heavily to them and dislike quite a few of their policies.
And my comparison to race is spot on -- I have yet to see you renounce or apologize for the actions and words of white people... the issue is not whether you can stop being white, but what are YOU doing to fix the racism problem and I have yet to see you post any of your actions, do you stop going to white owned businesses? See it works both ways.
And how do you know people are not protesting in their areas? Do you scout the news in every city that has a temple? How do you know people are doing other things? You make blind assumptions because you are angry.
You seem to be no better than the bigots you say you hate.
I do not hate anyone --- I HATE what your church has done
I'm certain the LDS church will, at least publicly, accept homosexuals the same way they decided to accept black men into the priesthood. They've already tried to temper their words about homosexuality and THANK GOODNESS for that.
The pamphlet that I received as an LDS youth regarding homosexuals and homosexuality, written, published and distributed by the LDS brethren is titled "To The One", ( the 1-in-100 who are homosexual, according to the brethren). I still have it. It uses the following words: Unnatural, Bad Habit, Immoral, Affliction, Pervert, Indulgence, Misled, Transgression, Condemned, Dangerous, Enslavement, Predator, Selfish, Brutal, Addiction, Twisted, Abnormal, Immoral, Correctable and Ugly.
It's a disgustingly hateful pamphlet that was based on "prophet/apostle" Boyd Packer's speech, also titled "To The One". The LDS church is trying to improve their image regarding this issue and if they're wise they'll give up the unnecessary hate altogether.
Because nothing about that horrid prophetic diatribe is "true".
First of all I am NOT the entire LDS faith but you seem to want to tell me that I am responsible for the words and actions of others. While I may not like or even condone what other people say or do, I am NOT responsible for them. I am responsible for myself.
I know kids are dying and on my own because of my own free will, compassion and humanity are doing what I can to stop it -- what are you doing?
You seem so hellbent on calling all LDS members evil and the problem that you failed to see that I was an ally in the situation and actively involved in being part of the solution for the better of all, especially those who have been hurt.
As I said earlier, your anger (which stems from hurt undoubtedly) seems to be blocking you from having open constructive dialogue with anyone of the LDS faith - even then they have shown to be working for the same cause as you.
ANS -- (repeating myself) YOU and any other "nice mormons" who swallow the idea that just because you are allowed to speak, you are making changes, are not accomplishing anything that we can see out here.
... -- what are you doing?
ANS --- I am trying to get mormons to DO something about stopping it
..... I was an ally in the situation and actively involved in being part of the solution for the better of all, especially those who have been hurt.
ANS (sorry) typical mormon paranoia, re the evil
-- I dont see you as part of the solution, as you have told me nothing about stopping, only about talking, and NOT ONE WORD of any results, meetings, protests to SLC, etc
.... - even then they have shown to be working for the same cause as you.
ANS -- I am STILL WAITING to talk to a mormon who relates something CONSTRUCTIVE he has done.
JUST BECAUSE the smiling faces where you are let you talk, how am I to see any progress, when you do not even condemn Packer or NOW in your posts?
It's 2 years after the atrocities of 2008, you should have stormed Salt Lake and demanded that destruction carried out in your name be stopped. Even now, you offer no proof of action
What proof do you have for your actions? I see nothing except hate coming specifically from you.
They are abusive to their families, and have a high level of depression among their group, abuse is silenced and suppressed by the leadership --
Been there and seen the abuse --- Mormon no more.
-- abuse is wide spread and has nothing to do with the gay issues, abusive behaviors is a core issue within the organization.
--clips from my interchange with one of you
...Bob - I think that conformity you speak of is mainly in Utah, Arizona, Idaho and some of Colorado - most of the LDS that I know are not and do not think like LDS from Utah. There really is a vast difference in thinking among members once you get outside of the Utah area.
...I and many other LDS do voice our opinions on this (and we did on Prop 8 too)
...quietly doing what needs to be done in order to affect change.
With the views that I have, I have never been told by any of church leaders that I was wrong in my views or blasphemous and when asked to serve I have held many high leadership positions within the church while keeping my views.
OK, PLEASE --- You make yourselves feel good that you speak up --
BUT IT'S 2 YEARS SINCE THE HORROR OF PROP 8, which may not seem like much time to you, but how many Gay kids and Gay adults were hurt by that terrorism, and when will it be over?
YOU WANT THE WORLD TO BELIEVE YOU'RE REASONABLE,
BUT Packer spoke the week after 6 boys died
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDceBHOgm6A&feature=related
YOU DON'T FIND IT ALL DISGUSTING AND CRUEL.?
-- this came to mind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciS5GikZ5Jo
I am SURE you are lovely people --- but you fund THIS ATROCITY
http://nomexposed.org/
What organization have you ever changed overnight by yourself? Have you ended racism of white people?
I am sure you have been hurt a great amount by many of the things some leaders of the LDS church has said - much like I have been hurt by many white people and their racism ----yet that hasn't stopped me from having open discussions and friendships with white people.
As a lifelong Democrat I can certainly say that while I donate to many Democrats and Liberal/Progressive organizations I am not 100% in lock step with everything they stand for - but I donate because I believe in their overall goals.
I am an American citizen but I do not stand behind everything the U.S. has ever said, done or currently does.
The "expect you to change it overnight by yourself" is COMPLETELY in your mind.
I just have no patience for people who are part of an oppressing organization, and pass on stories of how they stay within it, but differ. I don't want to hear that they tolerate your opinion --- I want to hear that you and others have banded together to change the mind set and protest.
The comparisons to race and gender are not at all comparable, because one can't resign from those -- but if you want to go there, I personally see the mormon church as not so far off from being the Klan
I cannot see staying in an organization which has done so much damage without being a forceful advocate for its changing -- MY morals would make me raise a big fuss, then quit if I did not see actual change coming fairly quickly. Thus (sorry), I think the "nice people" who stay are sell-outs.
I don't prejudge you to be like Karl Rove, or Paladino or Tancredo just because you are a white man like them. You have the opportunity to show yourself for who you are and be taken on your own merit - but you seem to paint all LDS members with the same broad brush.
About the broad brush.....it's your imagination, so let me be clear
Some LDS members I have interacted with on HP are very close to Mussolini or the Klan, to me.
Some are quite lovely, and sincerely regret the bad actions of the church.
ALL are responsible for the damage the church does, if they do not rise up and insist on substantial change in the very short term. ALL bear the responsibility because they stay in the church, and some of the worst offenders are the :nice ones" outside of Utah, because they KNOW of the evil, are not brainwashed into thinking it's OK.
Kids are dying. EVERYBODY who can help this and does not is guilty
I know many LDS couples who get married in the temple and then have a civil ceremony the very same day.
I also know many LDS couples who get married in the temple because it is FREE and they don't go into debt having all the expenses of a non-temple wedding.
I also know many Catholics who don't get married in a Catholic church because the bride wants to wear a dress that the priest would not allow.
I also know non-Muslims that are not able to attend a Muslim ceremony.
I think many religions and faiths have certain restrictions that people respect - but why not the Mormon faith.
Perhaps I could say that some of the practices might well deserve review, especially in light of Holly's point that there seems to be a punitive aspect running through the religion.
Personally, I am not in favor of non-family members not being allowed in the temple - I think they should be allowed in, but I respect the Church's right to their rules, much like I respect any religions rights to their own rules whether I agree with them or not. That is my point and one you seem to often miss.
A temple wedding isn't "FREE". It costs 10% gross of one's income for their entire life.
Family, isn't it about time?............what a pitiful joke.
I regard with sacredness the encounter Jesus had with the woman taken in adultery(John 7). Where he did not condemn her, but told her to go and sin no more. I try my best to love all people despite the choices they make. Does it mean that I don't stand up for what I believe in? No. I will never resort to demonizing other people, name calling, persecuting, or deriding a person in any way that disagrees with me in any way. We can have civil and good discussion about our differences without resorting to such behavior. The Savior, John 7, did not condemn the woman, but simply the behavior.
I would hope no LDS person would marry in the temple simply because he feels pressure from his or her family. I'm sure that this does happen to some extent, but this is a problem with that particular person and not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We are an imperfect people trying our best to live a higher standard. We fall short so often. It does not mean the doctrine is wrong.