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Howard Fineman

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Obama and the Budget Civil War

Posted: 04/12/11 05:19 PM ET

WASHINGTON -- Today, on the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War, we're in the midst of another one. It's bloodless and less dramatic, but sparked by the same issue: the moral role and reach of the federal government.

This is a never-ending debate, one with roots that go back hundreds of years in our society. But it's more urgent now than it has been in decades.

There are two main reasons. The obvious one is that we are about as broke as the world's only superpower can afford to be. We have to make agonizing choices.

The other is that anti-government conservatives have been building to this moment for decades, and the defenders of Washington's role have preferred for most of those years to operate by stealth, by tactical retreats, and by shying away from debating the fundamentals.

Now they have no choice.

Republican Rep. Paul Ryan fired the fiscal equivalent of the first shot at Ft. Sumter. He has proposed sun-setting the modern capstone of American governmental commitment: Medicare, which, since 1965, has guaranteed taxpayer-funded health care to every American 65 and older. It looks like the GOP leadership is going to hope for the best and follow his lead and make the idea the centerpiece of their budget in the House.

Ryan wants to do to Medicare what major corporations have done with their health care plans: convert them from an open-ended commitment (a "defined benefit" plan) to a menu of outsourced private providers, with an individual cap for each employee -- a cap that's easy to ratchet down over time by the employer, AKA, in this case, the government.

Enter President Barack Obama. He is battered and distrusted by the left for his concessions in budget negotiations -- not to mention his past support of the Bush tax cuts and his retreat on Guantanamo and civilian trials for terrorists.

But tomorrow night, in a speech to the nation, a Lincoln-loving Obama will offer viewers and voters a strong defense of the moral role of the federal government.

He has no choice, but it also is an opportunity if he is willing to seize it with eloquence and conviction.

He and his advisors see the GOP's attack on Medicare as a fateful blunder, one that can allow Democrats to reframe the debate away from deficit-reduction to the need to preserve the social safety net and sense of one nation.

History moves in generational waves, and this is both the conclusion of one and the beginning of something, the course of which no one can predict.

Some forty years ago -- a generation, as measured by the Bible -- the Great Society was at its intellectual and political zenith in the presidency of LBJ. But the upheavals of the 1960s also gave birth to a new wave of conservatives, who have spent the intervening years building an alternative universe of antagonism to the moral prerogatives of a central government.

Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton rarely fought the conservatives on first principles. Carter and Clinton were small-town Southern Democrats who learned how to swim upstream in a slowly but steadily Rising Right tide embodied by Ronald Reagan.

Barack Obama was supposed to be something new and different. He ran by presenting himself as a Reagan-level change agent, a new synthesis. But aside from a health-care plan that is in large measure a give away to the industry -- and aside from spending tons of money on tax cuts and two and a half wars -- he hasn't really been either a force for change or a staunch defender of the progressive heritage. Witness the budget deal he just agreed to.

And yet he is, by background and inclination, a big-city progressive. He does believe in the ameliorative role that only the federal government can play in our system and in our culture. At least he says he does.

If the Obama thinks Medicare is essential to our Union, he had better make the case convincingly tomorrow. If he does so effectively, Republicans may decide that Private Ryan is a brave man, but not one to be followed into battle. If the president doesn't, say goodbye to Medicare as we know it.

 

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WASHINGTON -- Today, on the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War, we're in the midst of another one. It's bloodless and less dramatic, but sparked by the same issue: the moral role and reac...
WASHINGTON -- Today, on the 150th anniversary of the start of the Civil War, we're in the midst of another one. It's bloodless and less dramatic, but sparked by the same issue: the moral role and reac...
 
 
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11:02 PM on 04/17/2011
Why are you so afraid of losing medicare? It was bound to go eventually. We as a nation can't afford it for much longer. The sooner it goes, the sooner we can implement a new system that will be working in 2055, not just 2015.
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
11:20 PM on 04/17/2011
You sound like a Car Saleman selling Flex Benefit for freerer choice. Just before the worker had to pay for his own insurance. So capital investment could get 90% for trading Stock as a contribution to Corporate Mainstreet Operation

And of course, you would say you cannot raise tax in a depression, otherwise the rich would have to pay their share of debt

And instead of letting the worker suffer for 5 years while bailing out Wall Street, You can take away all the spending for the public the worker pays for too
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DMSmith
11:37 PM on 04/17/2011
The imminent demise of Medicare is a lie.
10:49 PM on 04/17/2011
Anyone paying attention knows exactly what's going to happen--it's a done deal. First, Medicare will be "privatized", and then social security will be "privatized." Every single one of your reps wants to enact these changes, and Obama too--the money people want this done, and so, it'll get done. It's interesting that our government is going through such drama to try and convince us that there's some sort of democratic process going on here, instead of the pure corporatist oligarchy we are now governed by. They are very concerned with keeping us in line, so we don't take to the streets or otherwise revolt as our government craftily does us wrong over and over again. They needn't be so concerned. We won't. We've been utterly subjugated.
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FreedToChoose
...lest my wife says I'm not.
10:06 PM on 04/17/2011
Congress is legislating with black jack; the Senate is playing pinochle; the Prez is playing bridge. Interesting.
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:40 PM on 04/17/2011
They both are playing Monopoly with the worker. They own the Utilities, Park Avenue and you and I get the shaft
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Aneesia
09:23 PM on 04/17/2011
If Medicare is shut down for the American people, that should be considered a shot heard 'round the world. Then the people should ravage their representatives.
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:41 PM on 04/17/2011
Not sure what the rich would have to do. Use their own wealth for healthcare. America would never allow that.
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LeftLeanWing
Ah.. I said..Ah Said I said... Proceed Guv'nah
07:53 PM on 04/17/2011
The difference between Left_leaning_pundits and Right_leaning_pundits..............

A RPundit would not ask or request anyone else... even one of their Leaders to make the case....
They Would spend their own time Making the Case...

The  Left does just the opposite.....
They tend to treat their Leaders like they are Gladiators...
Who must go out and Fight, on their behalf, SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO ...
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hornedcog
Tax Tea Now!
09:19 PM on 04/17/2011
I had to read this a couple of times to appreciate it. What we truly need are Punditnistas.
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eternalscorpio1
just your average workin' man
10:41 PM on 04/17/2011
what we need is to take this fight into our own hands and take to the streets and make ourselves heard, waiting for others to win this fight for us is lazy and a losing strategy.........
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ProletarianRenegade
www.socialismconference.org
10:35 PM on 04/17/2011
The right does grassroots activism -- blocking abortion clinics, harassing women, etc. -- while the left says "get out the vote!!" And we wonder why the other side is winning.
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Julio Melendez Sr
boricua51
07:29 PM on 04/17/2011
Medicare is essential today and more so in the future it will be the only medical plan that seniors can afford and the government is the only one that can control cost......
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:45 PM on 04/17/2011
Especially for the Rich. Otherwise they might have to use their own money instead of the workers for healthcare. And if they do that what is next fair tax
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06:26 PM on 04/17/2011
Obama "a big-city progressive"? Give me a break.

He's a big ol' republican Trojan Horse. And what better person to go after Social security and Medicare than a big ol' republican Trojan Horse in dems' clothing.

Just watch.
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AG creative
Ba Gawk!
08:00 PM on 04/17/2011
That's crazy talk. Obama is a centrist democratic with corporatist tendencies. Not unlike Clinton.

To say he's a republican, is wrong. To say that today's democrats look like 1980s republicans would be more appropriate.
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10:03 PM on 04/17/2011
If he goes after Social Security and Medicare he'll definitely be a 2011 version of a repub.
10:53 PM on 04/17/2011
If he's a 1980's Republican, how come he just signed a bill extending the Bush tax cuts? If he's a 1980's Republican, how come he's about to sign a bill privatizing (i.e., ending) Medicare?

Obama isn't a 1980's Republican. Obama is a 2011 Republican.
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:46 PM on 04/17/2011
3 times a lady is enough
06:18 PM on 04/17/2011
I think, I hope, I pray; Howard, that he, President Obama has finally realized that he is fighting for his legacy and as lonely a fight as that may be it is his alone. The crew of lesser men that we have elected in November hate this man so much that they are willing to bring down Armageddon on us. He is the leader of the free world, he alone. He still has to clean house of his advisers, or at least not repeat their stupidities. Jeff Immelt, not good optics, Arne Duncan, needs an upgrade, Bill Daily, the juries out, and I'm holding on Tim Geithner.
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busman
06:33 PM on 04/17/2011
Scr.e.w his legacy. How about fighting for the people that elected him?
07:56 PM on 04/17/2011
YUP but don't give yourself an ulcer we need you around for the next inning.
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AG creative
Ba Gawk!
08:01 PM on 04/17/2011
People in journalism who get paid to speculate about all the infinite complexities of any given moment, think of things as petty as his 'legacy' as opposed to... perhaps, food on the plates of homeless people NOW.
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:47 PM on 04/17/2011
Some will see, but not see
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Horatio Nelson
06:04 PM on 04/17/2011
Something tells me our present corporatic course will prevail until we get more authentic public participation in this system. Perhaps the Republicans will empty their bags of tricks just in time for the backlash.
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AG creative
Ba Gawk!
08:03 PM on 04/17/2011
That's what I'm thinking, but it's a dangerous game of chicken. That scene from 'Rebel Without A Cause,' and James Dean comes to mind.

I mean, Obama is basically assuming that about 65% of Americans are ignoring the news and will only check in a few months before the 2012 election.
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Democrat in the South
Empathy, the most important word
05:11 PM on 04/17/2011
If, as I understand it, the Ryan plan will shift medical costs more and more onto seniors in the near future and eventually those vouchers won't be worth enough to buy good health care. And since the GOP wants to reduce retirement benefits and end medicare, when today's working people are ready to retire not only will they have their own unaffordable health care costs to deal with, many will also have to have their parents move in with them and be responsible for their own and their parents financial care. So the Ryan plan shifts ALL the costs onto future retirees in an unsustainable way. And for many, their only option will be to die early.

It's a very clever plan of Ryan's. Or a very stupid plan, depending on which way you look at it and depending on whether you are rich or not, or worse.

If "framing" is everything, why haven't the Dems. used this to get through to voters as to what this plan REALLY means. If seniors will eventually have to use all their S.S. checks to buy health care under Ryan's plan, who else but they're children will take care of them? They're children, thanks to Ryan, can't even take care of their own retirement/old age.

I don't understand why no one is talking about this possibility.

Dems. should be talking about what it was like for seniors before medicare. Constantly. The "Ryan like" idiots are too young or have forgotten.
06:00 PM on 04/17/2011
But the Democrat plan is to do nothing. (Sounds familiar). It is projected that Medicare will be using OPM - Other People's Money in nine years. So not only will you get to support your parents, you will get to support everybody's parents as well. If Ryan's proposal is not the best, Do you have one to replace it? The only option that Obama has put on the table is one to buy voters to elect him. Is that what you want for our country?
rogergoldkin
If you think education is expensive, try ignorance
08:07 PM on 04/17/2011
Single payer will eliminate this problem. It's going to happen one way or another. As more and more people can't afford insurance and fewer and fewer employers provide health insurance; sick people end up in hospital emergency wards, very sick, with no insurance. The state picks up the tab. So, the real question before the house is whether or not we are going to have a managed single payer system or an unmanaged one. Either way, the state picks up the tab. The unmanaged one is, in my opinion, the most expensive and personally devastating one as illnesses that could have been treated before they became chronic aren't. Remember, the way private insurance profits is by reducing or eliminating the costs associated with illness and treatment. What they don't pay out in treatment is profit. Therefore it is most profitable for these companies to deny as much treatment as they can. The more insurance companies can collect in premiums and the less they pay out for treatments or medicines, the more profits they make. Insurance companies are the real death panels that Repubs and fleabaggers wish to turn our seniors over to.
06:08 PM on 04/17/2011
Another result of the CBO analysis of the Paul Ryan-Alice Rivlin (from the Clinton administration) is that while the plan saves 4.3 trillion with the cuts it yields 4.2 trillion in tax cuts to the upper 1%. It is merely a trsnsfer of wealth! If you think democrats won't participate in cutting the entitlements, keep in mind President Clinton's statement (about ayear ago in a speech) that his greatest failure as President was not cutting Social Security.
My view is that at this point we can stand up for our rights at this point only through peaceful nonviolent demonstrations. Republicans fight for the upper 1% but it is also the democrats main constituency. Obama is not to be trusted because of his record of breaking so many of his campaign promises.
Very telling is his blaming the government deficits on government spending ( the Republican view) rather than the impact of the Great Recession and the resulting loss of joblessness as if having 22 million American who want work unemployed (counting those who fell of the rolls) and underemployed has no affect on the tax revenues. Another problem is that the extremely wealthy and corporations are paying a historically smaller share of the GDP in taxes. THERE SHOULD BE A JOBS PROGRAM. However these factors are invisible toObama as he competes with the Republicans to see who can best cut entitlements etc.
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Democrat in the South
Empathy, the most important word
07:22 PM on 04/17/2011
I don't think two years is enough time to straighten out the GOP mess. I fully expect a decade or more before we even begin to recover from the GOP devastation. Before Obama was elected it was predicted that it would take "decades" to undo the damage done by this party for the rich.
04:22 PM on 04/17/2011
The only way to convince this citizen that our leadership is serious about addressing national debt versus playing to their parties is when both parties are willing to put their sacred cows on the table. The reality is, we need higher taxes on the rich, cuts in entitlements, defense, waste, etc and we need leadership. What we don't need are spoiled 3 year olds digging in with ridiculous phrases like "non-starter".
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:49 PM on 04/17/2011
In a deprssion FDR taxed the rich at 90% and rebuilt the infrastructure. It worked. That must be why we won't do it again
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politicky
just follow the $$$
03:51 PM on 04/17/2011
"We have to make agonizing choices."

Who's "we" buddy? Did "we" choose to spend trillions on wars?

Did "we" choose to hand over billions to health insurance companies?
06:10 PM on 04/17/2011
"We", you and me, live in a representative republic not a democracy. While we think of ourselves and a Democracy, we elect people to represent our views. Even if you did not vote for your Representative, they still are your voice in the Federal, State and Local Government. So, we may have been taken for a fool by some politicians, They are still our elected Representatives. That is what distinguishes up from Mob Rule.
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LeftLeanWing
Ah.. I said..Ah Said I said... Proceed Guv'nah
08:02 PM on 04/17/2011
We live in a Democratic Republic....

Democracy and Republic are not Mutually Exclusive terms....

Democracy means that each Citizen has the Right and Ability to Vote...  ( with a few exceptions )... not just a privileged class..... and each vote carries the same weight...

A Republic just means that we are not a Monarchy....or a Kingdom....
Where power is exchanged within a Family .....

Think of The People's REPUBLIC of China.... for example....
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politicky
just follow the $$$
03:11 PM on 04/19/2011
What kid of deluded fantasy world do YOU live in Mr. Bill? The Congresswhores don't represent or care about anyone who makes less than a million bucks a year or can provide good press and/or large campaign contrubutions.
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:51 PM on 04/17/2011
You forgot the Trillions to Banks who charge Me interest and now give me Debt as interest.

It is a Brave New World, unfortunately that was not a story, but a prediction. Atlas Shrugged and the Whole world trembled
03:16 PM on 04/17/2011
I have to quibble with the term "anti-government conservatives", only because they are pro-government DOING FOR THEM, but anti-government DOING FOR ANYONE ELSE.

Has anyone REALLY looked over the SIMPSON BOWLES COMMISSION report. Why do you think the really rich 2% LOVE it? IT'S BECAUSE IT SADDLES THOSE WHO CAN BEARLY GET BY WITH HIGHER TAXES AND LOWERS THE TAXES FOR THAT VERY SAME 2%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Genders
Love, Tolerance, Enlightenment
04:07 PM on 04/17/2011
Anti republic, anti democracy conservatives is more accurate, yes.
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cayuse
Soaring Eagle, soaring to Spirit from the ego self
10:54 PM on 04/17/2011
Brave New World. I grock it, but hell I don't even have to pay attention. I simply expect both parties to lower worker wages and then tax the hell out of the worker.

When to worker eventually will get 0 Sum Gain. He will still be to busy working to understand his plight.

He goes off sending his kid to fight political wars. Instead of sending them to washington where they could realy defend their country, If you know what I mean
03:08 PM on 04/17/2011
Dont worry Howard as long as 47 percent of the electorate pay absolutely nothing in taxes (and most of them get "Obama" checks now and again to keep them in line) the massive giveaways and freebies are going nowhere anytime soon. Now, if the democrats had to pay taxes you might have a different story but Obama is talking about soaking the rich again (they now pay 97% of all the taxes collected anyway) and class warfare sells. (BTW can someone tell me how families making $200K are "millionaires and billionaires")

But, as usual, the joke is sadly on them. Prices will "neccessarily skyrocket" (as Obama explained on the stump) and they will be, as usual, worse off than they were. And we Millionaires and Billionaires will just work a few more hours, keep our car an extra year and layoff another lower level employee to compensate.

That is real world economics.
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mimsnpips
it just keeps gettin darker outside
03:55 PM on 04/17/2011
Your 97% number is an old Rush Limbaugh line that was actually debunked live on his own radio show when his screener accidentally allowed a caller to tell the truth. When you include FICA, which is most certainly a tax, the middle class bears the brunt of taxes. Poor old boy was taken back, but reluctantly agreed.
05:13 PM on 04/17/2011
Debunked. Where did you learn that word on MSNBC? It is acutally 97.3%. These are government published numbers easily checked in about 5 seconds. LOL

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html
or
http://www.american.com/archive/2007/november-december-magazine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes
or
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/incometaxandtheirs/a/whopaysmost.htm

I can give you about 300 sites that say exactly the same thing.
09:04 PM on 04/17/2011
Glad you understand that FICA is a tax, however since you are supposed to get it back in spades then it isn't a "brunt".
Genders
Love, Tolerance, Enlightenment
04:10 PM on 04/17/2011
Automation concentrates wealth to the point where 1000 families will soon own everything and the rest of us will be their serfs and slaves. Did these rich folks get that way on a desert island? Sweden, Germany and Holland all compete globally and have great infrastructure, citizens safety net, and green energy programs. The USA can do that. Instead we have the lowest opt tax rate on the rich since right before the great depression, including capital gains of course. Wake up. We have too little taxation on the super wealthy.

We have too little money in the hands of the citezens, THAT is what is crashing the economy.
dcgal1
what does this mean?
02:58 PM on 04/17/2011
Maybe President Obama could have gotten your precious public option if he had some support.
The pols in his own party underminded him at every term, and cowered when they were presented with questions as to whether they supported reforming health care because of the nuts that turned out at the town halls who were mostly repubs. And while these people got out in the heat of summer, and screamed and hollered to the top of their lungs and disrupted town hall meetings that dems were holding, we sat at home and did nothing to counter their protest and when things didn't work out the way you wanted it to, you blamed the president when you should have blame yourself for sitting back and letting the repubs frame the debate.
The dems have only their own laziness and apathy to blame for not getting what they wanted, and the president was forced to accept what he could get. When will we realize that we are our own worst enemy, and stop using the excuse that the dems don't follow their leader's blindly for your own lack of loyalty, impatience and vision?
Genders
Love, Tolerance, Enlightenment
04:15 PM on 04/17/2011
Maybe if Obama was a progressive and not a DLC Dem corporatist, the people would have supported him. The DLC dems and Obama have made some many bad decision and gone along with the GOP so many times when they did not have to. They own our problems no. No they did not originally cause, but they are continuing the decline of the republic.

Stop using the excuse that it's the liberals fault. We have been correct, Obama and the DLC dems are messing up.

Vote for the Kucinich progressive or continue to let the multinationals rule the world.

Obama and the DLC dems continued the bush cut and failed to pass a budget when they had the power to do so, all of our current problems stem from that.

Look up the DLC democrats, they have publicized their agenda. See how corporatist it is.
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Carlton Jordan
04:56 PM on 04/17/2011
haha you just validated his entire post...
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Mary Mckay
Capitalism is not God
04:17 PM on 04/17/2011
Good point!