Left, Right & Center: Obama VS. Cheney On Detainees And California In Chaos

Obama and Cheney dueling speeches but is being against torture a left-right issue? Is Obama using Bush language? Was Obama pressured to give speech by democrats who voted against closing Gitmo? And what is Cheney up to? Is he defending the people and policies of the Bush years or getting into politics again?

And as the economy continues to slide, California suffers a severe budget crisis... what does the defeat of ballot measures to fix the budget mean? What happened to California's once well funded education? Will California beg Washington for more money? How will this crisis affect public healthcare programs and public schools? And what is the state's responsibility to plug it's own budget gaps?

Comments

[FairTalk]

Illegal immigration has undermined the California economy.

[wagthedog1001]

For the past 25 years California has had Republican governors with the exception of '99-'03 when Davis was governor before he was re-called.

So much for G.O.P. fiscally conservative leadership.

Tax rates have steadily risen during that time as well. Seems they really don't have a clue about keeping government small.

[FairTalk]

Thanks, but then I knew that.

here is how illegal immigration undermines an economy:

1. The workers are not paid a fair wage, and are denied benifits. They are unable to complain, due to fears of discovery.

2. Small business in California that don't want to hire illegals, are forced to do so due to unfair competition. (how do I know this? believe me, I do)

3. More and more "legal" workers become unemployed, or they cannot find jobs that pay well. Urban areas are especially hard hit. Minoritioes end up in prison due to a failure to recognize the problem and respond accordingly.

4.Burdons to taxpayers increase. A huge prison industry develops, paid for by the taxpayer. Schools and hospitals flounder under over use, with inadequate funding, because the illegals are not paying taxes. (believe me, I know)

5. The illegals do not spend their wages here, so the economy here suffers. They send the money out of the country.

Result: The rich get richer, the workers get poorer, until the economy collapses.

[FairTalk]

First, let's respond to the dueling radio addresses this morning.

One advantage for Obama using Busing Bush's words is that repubs won't be able to take sound bite lines from Obama's speech and use it against Democrats in contested elections next year.

As for torture that was used, you are right, this is not a left right issue. But neither is bringing "terrorists" to US soil. Contrary to what some folks want to make this out to be, I, and almost everyone I know is against bringing foreigh nationals, picked up in foreign countries, to the US. Nor do we want to move the Gitmo detainees to the US.

Now, if we could move this beyong the name calling, beyond assuming those of us with these views are right wing, or even in the GOP, or filled with fear, we could then begin to have the discussion we need to have. Which should include removing the terrorist tag, and begin to discuss how acts of terror against countries for political purposes.

The real question is, does the US support the activities of some terrorists, based on which countries they attack? Is the US secretely funding, directly or indirectly, terror against some countries?

See, what we have here is hypocracy.

[jane gutowski]

I dont think Cheney would consider getting into government again. I think he felt strongly that he did the right things and he doesnt understand how he can be judged harshly when he kept our country safe after 9/11.But I do think his daughter Liz will run for office and I think shes got a good chance as she makes a lot of sense and shes much more likeable than her dad.