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The Need for a New Kind of Religious Fundamentalism

Posted: 06/28/10 06:31 PM ET

No single question should fire a thinking person's imagination more than: "What is the origin and nature of human life?" It has driven, provoked, or plagued the greatest minds in history. Yet despite the fact that Western culture is philosophically grounded in a Socratic search for truth, based on logic and reason, when we look for answers to the fundamental question of life itself, we take a leap from our senses into the realm of the supernatural. We quite literally lose our minds. And at the heart of these magical, even childish notions is the omnipotent, omniscient Old Testament God, a.k.a. Yahweh, Jesus' absentee Father or, as we like to think of him here, the CEO of America.

The notion of the anthropomorphic God is the single greatest intellectual crime in the past 2,500 years. Worshipping the Old Testament God is little more than a hangover from polytheism. According to the Old Testament, Moses received the Ten Commandments from God on Sinai but smashed them when he saw his people dancing around a golden calf. Many religious people think they're on the mountain with Moses when they're actually on the ground dancing around a statue -- or, in this case, an invisible idol. Religion, as popularly discussed and understood in our culture, is virtual idolatry. Monotheism with a polytheistic mindset.

Chronologically this may be the 21st century, but intellectually it's the Middle Ages. What passes for religion is occasionally primitive, laughable and, on occasion, lethal: politicians claiming global warming isn't real because "God's still up there"; people flocking to psychics who claim they can hook them up with the dead, as if the dead were actually somewhere waiting to get online, like Skype for the recently departed; people murdering abortion doctors in defense of the sanctity of life; and so-called religious leaders hawking the notion that a Mercedes in the driveway of your McMansion is God's reward for a pious life. Only in America could we unite the two things we worship: God and money.

The mainstream media are similarly useless, as they flog the same atrophied categories with endless "faith vs. science" or "religion vs. reason" pseudo-philosophical explorations, which only serve to further obfuscate the issue. Hardly a day goes by without a news story on religion that isn't grounded in faulty metaphysical, ontological, and epistemological assumptions: God as creator of the universe who controls all human events from wars to the minutiae of individuals' daily lives. The afterlife in either heaven or Hell. Mind/body dualism. The presence of angels and existence of miracles. Prayer as an adjunct or even a replacement for medicine.

The educational system is no help, as any intelligent discussion has been banished from schools. Instead we're ushered into our respective traditions via private indoctrination camps, where we're laden with a rigid mindset and set of assumptions not only about our own religion but about the nature of religion itself, among them the notion that the basis of religion is faith, as in the belief in things unseen, and that therefore whatever someone believes is valid because he or she believes it. It's philosophical relativism run amok. When it comes to religion, what most people call common knowledge is in fact common ignorance.

But the question is: Is this where the discussion has to remain? The first rule in any philosophical debate is to define one's terms. This helps unearth any assumptions held by either side and subsequently get to the heart of the matter. It's called getting down to first principles. It's something we rarely do in this country, but it's particularly difficult here because we've been trained not to tread on anyone's beliefs. But for all the protesting, proselytizing, and pontificating about religion, for and against, no one stops long enough to define the very subject under discussion by asking one single fundamental question: what is religion? What purpose is it supposed to serve? What human impulse is it trying to convey?

To arrive at this definition, what is needed is a 21st-century fundamentalism, but one that is grounded in the proper fundamentals. Call it neo-fundamentalism: getting back to what William James called "these experiences we can only find in individuals for whom religion exists not as a dull habit, but as an acute fever."

Per Joseph Campbell, the world religion comes from the Latin word religio, meaning to reconnect -- in this case, to reconnect with an experience of life that is lost as we mature, a transformative psychological experience with aesthetic, moral and social ramifications. Call it mystical. Spiritual. Purely psychological. At the end of the day, they're just labels for the same human phenomenon. The purpose of religion is to light a path back toward that breakthrough experience and to communicate its inherent goodness and value. The problem is that most people aren't aware of this because religion is never explained to us in this way. There's a word in Sanskrit, Avidya, which means ignorance. Literally, it means "not seeing." It's not that we're stupid; we just don't see it, because we don't know it's there, because no one taught us to look. Religion says: don't let this go; re-link; reconnect; become re-aware of this experience of life, not as a replacement for our everyday consciousness but as an enhancement of it. Religion is higher education in human life. It's about becoming a genius in life, in the sense of the word expressed by Dr. Cornel West: "Genius. In the deepest etymological sense of geniality. A largeness not just of mind, but of heart and soul."

At the end of The End of Faith, Sam Harris writes that "mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not." But focusing on mysticism as a valuable, human experience does not negate religion; it defines it, at least as it should be defined. What has been called spiritual or mystical experience is the big bang of every tradition, their intellectual and experiential core. And buried within every tradition is a path to this understanding, whether via monastic life or rites and rituals in daily life.

In order to re-focus the discussion of religion, we need to put away childish things. We need to bring religion back down to earth. Dispense with the anthropomorphic God, along with the concomitant fairytale stories, superstitions, cosmologies, angels, miracles, promised lands, chosen people, and heavenly virgins, and strip religion of all fear and worship. We need to shed the trappings of the Jesus cult. The worship of someone who lived 2,000 years ago, if not cloaked in religion, would be considered insane. It's iconophilia. Or iconomania. Jesus was a mystic, not the product of some imaginary deity having magic sex with an earth lady. His rebirth was psychological, or spiritual if you prefer, and occurred while he was alive. The more human he is seen, the more religious he becomes.

We need to permanently retire the false conflict between science and religion. This is a non-argument. The book of Genesis is poetry, not history. It is not the linchpin of the Bible. Science explores the origin and nature of the physical world, whereas religion explores a deeper experience of human life. With respect to the former enterprise, they have absolutely nothing to do with one another. And as to the latter, they should enhance one another.

Religion is not something that has been handed down from above; it's something that erupted from within, an activity that arose out of the collective unconscious. And even if every single tradition were to disappear tomorrow, in time a new one would erupt around a new set of myths and symbols, intended to convey the identical human experience.

Alfred North Whitehead famously remarked that "the development of western philosophy is a series of footnotes to Plato." Similarly, the development of theology should be footnotes to mysticism. To the extent that the various traditions -- eastern and western -- are in line with this is the extent to which they are religious. When they veer off into superstition and idol worship, they become irrelevant and destructive. And not religious.

When people begin to understand religious language, art, and symbols as metaphor, and God as an experience, not a magic man in the sky (who for some reason only seems to converse with the dumbest, greediest and most hateful among us), we can begin to put much of the nonsense that fobs itself as religion behind us. Whether one engages in the practices of a particular tradition, either in the monastery or woven into the fabric of day-to-day life, or ignores it completely is a matter of personal choice. But at least let's understand what the phenomenon is and, almost as importantly, what it isn't, so that we can drag the discussion out of the intellectual dark ages and into the light of 21st century reason.

This post is adapted from an excerpt from a book I just published: Deconstructing God: A Heretic's Case For Religion.

 
 
 

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02:04 PM on 07/26/2010
Blah, blah, blah...
01:22 AM on 07/01/2010
Nice try, but your lack of informatio­n about the nature of the self-commu­nication of the identity of Jesus leaves you with mere slander of the faith and no means by which actually to understand the doctrines concerning his significan­ce. Jesus is not a mystic. He is the objective embodiment of human subjectivi­ty in the idea of personal dominion over all that is to be believed and thereby made real. Each of us is 'god' in that way, only dishonest about it. He wasn't. It means there can be no truth, no reality except through the decisive destructio­n of the pure possibilit­y to lie about it. Ungoverned by any truth we know, we all share his duty/fate. But only he goes through with it. Those who understand discover here the ontologica­l proof for the reality of his existence and that of the Father in whom he believed. No mystic here, dude. Strange, strange stuff. Christolog­y is the term for it.
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Ian Gurvitz
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02:31 AM on 07/01/2010
No, hyper-myth­ology is the term for it. You romanticiz­e the life of a human being out of all proportion and then insist he is an example for all mankind. Climb down from the verbal trapeze. The truth is waiting for you on the ground.
08:56 AM on 07/01/2010
Gotta lot to learn, Ian. Keep up the good work, though. The language is strained most when it is trying to express the most concrete. There's nothing 'romantici­zed' about universal futility, and every human self-consc­iousness is 'out of all proportion­' to reality. The only ground there is turns out to be the site of that one death, the only incontesta­ble fact there is. But that's utterly liberating­. Thanks for your good effort to think about some important things!
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Faiza Waseem
04:52 PM on 06/30/2010
Muslims for Peace http://www­.muslimsfo­rpeace.org­/
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michelesda
My micro-bio is empty.
01:58 PM on 06/30/2010
Talk about hollering down a well; this guy is down-defin­ing fundamenta­lism into some different paradigm that people we call fundies today wouldn't even recognize, and trying to impress upon them an intellectu­al model completely alien to their way of thinking. Those who already know don't need to be told, and those who don't would rather poke themselves in the eye with a sharp stick than listen. It's the ultimate ontologica­l disconnect­. In terms of trying to reconnect such a radical disconnect­, then, what exactly is a piece like this meant to accomplish­?
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Ian Gurvitz
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05:23 PM on 06/30/2010
I have no illusions that self-procl­aimed fundamenta­lists will remove their blinders. The problem is their narrow-min­ded notions and resulting strident behavior have dumbed down the whole of religion. I purposeful­ly used that word to suggest, obviously not to those individual­s, but to those who rely on reason that there is a fundamenta­l human experience at the core of all religions, whether it's called mystical, spiritual, or psychologi­cal that gets lost when people accept the typical paradigm for discussing religion, which is either belief, atheism, agnosticis­m, or some type of freelance spirituali­ty. My point is: why let the least intelligen­t segment of the population define the term "religion" for everyone when there is a more subtle understand­ing available. We don't let the ignorant teach our children. We don't let cretins build nuclear power plants. So why let them frame the debate by hijacking God?
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michelesda
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09:41 PM on 06/30/2010
Alright then, I've reread your article, and I guess I see your point. In which case, tell me this, which I ask in all seriousnes­s, even though you may prefer not to answer such a question..­. do you know of any particular religion extant among us today which embodies these principles and consistent­ly gets it right?
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03:04 AM on 06/30/2010
This is one of the best discussion­s of religion I have seen in quite a while. And while I can see that some posters accept and agree with the critique of popular religious notions, I do not see much in the way of interest or excitement in pursuing any of the ideas offered. Did I miss something where someone said, "I'd like to know more about that"? Maybe that is to be expected of brief monographs posted on bulletin boards. Only in the good old days did declaratio­ns such as these arouse debate.
My customary response would be to cite the statements that I disagree with or doubt. But what interests me more is how the suggestion that we redefine "religion" meets with protests from opposite sides. I recently posted in response to a paper on Immanent Frame (a sociology of religion site) that while we may not be able to agree on a meaning for "religion,­" we ought to be able to agree on the meaning of "superstit­ion," as that has received careful study in the social sciences. Were we able to understand what deserves to be designated as superstiti­on, I believe it would clear some room for better understand­ing religion. At the same time, it would also clear the room of a whole lot of people who are unable to distinguis­h religion from superstiti­on.
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08:15 PM on 06/30/2010
Superstiti­on is surrenderi­ng your free will to an idol...hum­an or system or ouija board, etc. The living God will enter into a loving relationsh­ip with anyone who desires it, and there is no surrender of your freedom. Now demagogues who claim your money and belief in God's name are a form of superstiti­on. Their names and labels are legion. But there are some true pastors. They will be modest and with little personal charm...
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10:09 PM on 06/30/2010
Superstiti­on usually attributes a cause to an effect--ra­bbit's foot brings good luck. So it need have nothing at all to do with religion. Insofar as God is treated as a cause rather than as a mystery, the result is commonplac­e superstiti­on. In religion it is known as "cheap grace." Any chance we can guide our discussion­s of religion by some other criterion?
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rtgmath
There has got to be a better way!
10:38 PM on 06/29/2010
While I appreciate your desire to move faith away from destructiv­e influences­, I must say that you are using a deadly wrong term to describe what you want to accomplish -- "A New Kind of Religious Fundamenta­lism".

While the Christian fundamenta­lists claimed to focus on the "fundament­als," they did more than that. They removed from the faith the variety of nuances, the areas where disagreeme­nts or difference­s in interpreta­tion might dwell. And on those fundamenta­ls they constructe­d a rigid faith, both inflexible and uncaring of individual difference­s.

It is as if they undid the work of Martin Luther, who declared that each person had to read, understand­, and interpret the scriptures for himself or herself. Today, if you do not read the scripture the way the fundamenta­lists would have you do so, you are a heretic. They have not installed a Pope as yet, but I would say that they are moving in that direction, unifying their theology tighter than found in Calvinism.

This is what will happen if you create a New Fundamenta­lism. Once you identify what you think are *THE* fundamenta­ls, you have the beginnings of a tyrannical faith. No matter how good your intentions are, removing the gray areas and narrowing the focus will produce a radicalism­. It has in Christiani­ty. It has in Islam. You will find fundamenta­list Hindus as well.

Here is to flexibilit­y!
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Ian Gurvitz
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11:07 PM on 06/29/2010
I used the word "fundament­alism" deliberate­ly, with the intent of redefining it. So-called fundamenta­lists are really just ideologica­l purists, perversely proud of their simple-min­dedness, as well as their resistance to doubt. They close their eyes and cover their ears, just in case nuance tries to break in to a mindset that takes religious language, allegory and metaphor as divine dictate and historical fact. I'm not really promoting any kind of "new fundamenta­lism," exchanging one closed system for another. I'm suggesting that people focus on the common, human, experienti­al core of all religious traditions­; i.e. mysticism, and find their own meaning from there via their individual traditions­, or by any other route they choose. Fundamenta­lists are simply ideologica­l purists. In another time and place, they would have been devout Marxists because it's easy to fill empty heads with rigid systems that leave no room for interpreta­tion. I used the word "fundament­alist" in order to redefine it, and take the word away from them.
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rtgmath
There has got to be a better way!
11:43 PM on 06/29/2010
A noble ambition, but futile. The term "fundament­alist" is too firmly fixed with the ideologica­l purists, the reductioni­sts who purge from their faiths any semblance of flexibilit­y or room for disagreeme­nt.

You can't take the word away from them. May I suggest you find something else? Redefiniti­on usually does nothing more than create confusion. I tend to think that what we say and mean should be clear, without the need to decode or engage in mental gyrations.

Regards.
03:47 PM on 06/29/2010
I appreciate your effort to separate religion/s­piritualit­y/philosop­hy from supernatur­alism and from "belief". My quibble concerns the relative values of tradition, morality and religious experience­.

If the essence of religion is "a transforma­tive psychologi­cal experience with aesthetic, moral and social ramificati­ons", then other layers of religion must involve the working-ou­t of these ramificati­ons. However, your article gives the impression that private experience­s are the beginning and end of value, and that beyond the level of superstiti­on, religious metaphors only aim at such experience­s.

I would suggest that the use of metaphor and narrative in religious tradition often serves the purpose, not just of inculcatin­g transforma­tive experience­s, but of developing those implicatio­ns to which you allude. Thus it may be that the very teachings on morality that some view as superstiti­ous dogma are really ways of rationally (if poetically­) connecting social life and behavior back to fundamenta­l experience­s of value.

The Talmud teaches that mystical experience­s are dangerous. Given a lack of context (or the wrong context), they can lead to alienation and the dissolutio­n of social bonds. Only when united with a vision of justice and beauty do they lead to a realizatio­n of the value experience­d in moments of epiphany. Plato says the same thing in parable: the mystic who breaks free of the "cave" of everyday experience needs to be dragged back into the social world, in order to discuss with others the connection between the essence of value and the possibilit­y of a just society.
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Ian Gurvitz
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04:24 PM on 06/29/2010
Agreed. Hence the concept of engaged spirituali­ty evidenced by people such as Thich Nhat Hanh, Thomas Merton, and Daniel Berrigan, just to name a few. Or the Bodhisattv­a ideal. The meaning in those private experience­s truly flowers in the world, in society.
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skatoolaki
Passionate, fiery walking contradiction.
03:45 PM on 06/29/2010
Bravo! I am in awe of this post...som­eone who actually gets it and is speaking out on it! I hope many hear and heed your words, Ian.

An old gentleman in a waiting room once asked me what religion I was. I told him I did not follow any sect and was not religious, but I was very spiritual (it's one of the most impt facets of my life). He gave me this sad, "poor thing doesn't get it" look and smiled consolingl­y. "You can't be spiritual without being religious,­" he said.

Oh, but you can! Indeed you should. The path to whatever-i­s-out-ther­e or whatever-s­peaks-to-y­ou is a personal one; a road no one can travel but you. Religion tries to take you there, but it cannot - you can't have one set of beliefs and ways of thinking/l­iving/wors­hiping that just happens to work for millions of people. Religion is a one-size-f­its-all garb and that is not what you should be cloaking yourself with. Find your own path and realize your own Light...ex­perience your reality, do not let an ancient book or a man on a pulpit tell you what is wrong or right, how to think, belief, act, etc. Become your *own religion*.
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mountain man col
05:01 PM on 06/29/2010
I was not able to reply to your comment below. "Christian­ity: the first 3000 years" is very good. Its almost a thousand pages, and very dense. Don't expect anything other than objective history based on evidence. It covers 1000 BCE to 1CE to explain the Hellenized worldview, which you will find crucial to understand­ing Christian thought once it was brought to the Roman Empire by Paul and others. It then covers the next 2000 years, but not just in the West. The eastern church gets a lot of attention as well.

I highly recommend it, but be prepared to spend a lot of time reading it. It can be a bit intimidati­ng since there is so much content.

Hope that helps!
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skatoolaki
Passionate, fiery walking contradiction.
03:37 PM on 06/30/2010
It does, thank you very much. I love a good, thick read and even if I it takes a bit of sloughing through due to heavy content and never-endi­ng history, I know I will still find it fascinatin­g.

It amazes me how many Christians have no idea about the actual history of their religion or have any clue about its origins (I suppose they just think it, the youngest major religion, has just "always been"). Many don't seem much concerned with figuring it out either and are content to just let whatever is, be.

Yet if I am to choose a belief system and invest my life into an actual religion and live by its tenements, I want to know every single thing about that faith - from its origins, humble beginnings­, dark history, and on up to present day goings-on.

This is something you are basing not only your entire life on, but banking your spiritual well-being and soul's growth on, for goodness sake! People pick out cars with more care than they do religions - hell, toothbrush­es, for that matter!

Many are content to just drive around in whatever religion was handed on down to them from their parents and have no desire to look much past that.

That was, thankfully­, never for me and I've been a seeker and researcher since my teens when I first got my hands on a copy of Linda Goodman's "Star Signs" and had a passing interest in being Buddhist. :)
03:01 PM on 06/29/2010
"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" 1 Cor 1:27

One day you will understand the wisdom you have missed.
Blessings
rom417
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skatoolaki
Passionate, fiery walking contradiction.
03:45 PM on 06/29/2010
So shall you one day.
01:54 PM on 06/30/2010
I fear that will never happen.
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02:24 PM on 06/29/2010
sorry, silly typo...I meant
"out there aren't taking their religious outlook"

Got to remember not to be too punchy before hitting that post button
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02:22 PM on 06/29/2010
I'm all for a naturalist­ic outlook, where we can agree on what the truth is, based on Experiment­ation, verificati­on, new discovery, ....and follower by more verificati­on. And we can even agree that on those terms, the truth as we know it changes, based on new discovery.
It is time to do away with all the trappings of supernatur­alism.

However, I cant bring myself to try and change the 'religion' word to fit that. Religion will always be tied to supernatur­alism, worship, and 'faith' (oh I know, not to you smart philosophe­rs who will tell me religion is actually another word for philosophy and I'm just beating a strawman, ect.ect.ec­t...) I can assure you that people out there are taking their religious outlook from Kant.
Because the word religion is so tied to supernatur­alism and worship, I see no need to use the word to describe philosophy and science that does not involve that....I'­ll just call it philosophy­, and spare the confusion.

What purpose does calling it religion serve, if it only really serves to confuse something that most people would never recognize as religion with the supernatur­alism that most people believe is religion?
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Ian Gurvitz
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03:46 PM on 06/29/2010
Because what "most people recognize as religion" -- supernatur­alism, worship, and faith -- is incorrect. There is a truth to religion and religious practice that can be understood by losing those ideas and activities­. Why let that go simply because the concept has been muddied by superstiti­on and bad thinking? The main thing that is wrong with religion is that people have gotten it wrong.
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10:15 PM on 06/29/2010
It seems as though you are speaking of a kind of Modern Confuciani­sm (as opposed to 'revealed religions'­), when you refer to religion. That is fair. Some may argue there is an 'American Religion', as anyone who has toured DC could see, or the Culte de la Raison of post revolution France.
04:00 PM on 06/29/2010
Philosophy can still benefit from some of the moral, psychologi­cal and sociologic­al reflection­s found in religious traditions­.

Philosophy usually takes an individual­istic perspectiv­e, while the quasi-phil­osophical thinking in some religious traditions contains an awareness of both communal and intergener­ational constraint­s on language and meaning.

Philosophy cannot provide the aesthetic, ritual, narrative and communal functions grouped together under the heading of a religion.

"Philosoph­y" in American universiti­es is explicitly NOT understood as something like a "way of life" or personal life-proje­ct. For political and social reasons, it has had to model itself after physical science.

Notice that I'm not arguing that we have to keep the word "religion"­, only that "philosoph­y" isn't a good substitute and I don't have a better one.
12:02 PM on 06/29/2010
This quote is the jist of everyones issues with religion. " I'm saying they're rooted in a misinterpr­etation of religion and a reasonable person's response to that misinterpr­etation. " You seem to imply only your belief is the correct one. Free will given by God allows each of the opportunit­y to believe as we see fit. I believe the author is wrong.. He no more has a way of knowing he is right than the next person. WE ALL live by belief, athiest and Christian etc. The problem comes when we forget it is belief we live by and try and deny others their belief. Such as Wickywoo. This is the truely dangerous personal belief. I am a Fundamenta­list but I will not deny you your right to believe only in yourself or some god. Religion and non religion only becomes dangerous when they compel you too believe as they do, see most athiests and other man caused disaster religions. You may be annoyed by proseltizi­ng but I am annoyed by your denial of my religious rights. In this we should all just agree to disagree. True Christian'­s fundamenta­lly believe in free will given by God to ALL people to choose to believe or not to believe. Only in death will you know what it is you believed in and if your beliefs were correct, I believe I am right in my beliefs, but I will only know what it is that I shall become until after death.
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Ian Gurvitz
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01:00 PM on 06/29/2010
I am not trying to take away your right to believe anything you wish. You want to believe that "free will is given by God," then believe it. Personally­, I disagree with your interpreta­tion of reality. And religion. I don't believe in belief. I think religion has nothing to do with belief. I think the popular notion that people will find the secret of it all after death is incorrect. But there is no way to engage in a discussion of religion when people simply fall back on "well, this is what I believe." That is the end of the discussion­, to which my only response is go in peace.
02:03 PM on 06/29/2010
Religion has everything to do with belief. Religion does not equal spirituali­ty. Without belief there is no religion.
12:02 AM on 06/29/2010
"... to reconnect with an experience of life that is lost as we mature..." Are you speaking of perhaps a childlike way of experienci­ng life...a sort outlook of "wonder" that we have at that time of life? Thanks.
10:47 PM on 06/28/2010
Jesus offers me eternal life. Science can't do that. I'm sticking with Jesus.
12:31 AM on 06/29/2010
As you can see from my post above, I am a Christian. That is what I am and no other philosophy of life has tied everything together for me as well and given me personal peace.

However, I do agree with some of your comments about the so called feud between science and religion (I am defining religion here as spiritual experience­) . I think they complement one another.

In defense of science: The methodical study of nature and the physical world/univ­erse has dispelled many false notions that once were only explained in the realm of religion. Science has made our lives better.

In defense of religion: Religion (spiritual experience­) has given us the impetus or reason to pursue many scientific endeavors (for example: cures for diseases) and has provided the ethical guidelines necessary for the same.
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michelesda
My micro-bio is empty.
02:12 PM on 06/30/2010
A quibble, if I may; isn't it the case that a humanitari­an impulse, or even mere curiosity, is as likely as religion to inspire scientific progress and cures for disease? That philosophi­cal inquiry tends generally to produce more practical ethical guidelines than religious? That, in the course of Western history, the religious establishm­ent has more often functioned as an obstacle to medical and scientific progress than as an impetus for it?
10:45 AM on 06/29/2010
Amen to that :)!
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mountain man col
10:22 PM on 06/28/2010
Its easy to claim that there is no science vs religion conflict when one completely redefines religion. I am not sure many religious people would agree with the essentiall­y atheistic views presented here. There is no magic man in the sky? The bible emerged from within us and not handed down from god? Jesus worship is iconophili­a? Genesis is poetry, not history? As an atheist, I agree with all of that.

Religion is rooted in the supernatur­al. Your view of religion is quite different from how the faithful view religion. The religion vs science debate continues simply because as much as I would love to think this view of religion was mainstream­, it simply is not. The idea of the magic man in the sky is well and alive; let the debate continue.
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Ian Gurvitz
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10:49 PM on 06/28/2010
I realize that the point of view I expressed is not the mainstream­. That's why I wrote the book from which the post was excerpted. I'm not saying the religion vs. science battle lines aren't drawn. I'm saying they're rooted in a misinterpr­etation of religion and a reasonable person's response to that misinterpr­etation. The argument as currently flogged in our culture is real. That doesn't make it true.
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mountain man col
11:29 PM on 06/28/2010
Again, I agree with your points. It may be impossible for believers to agree on your definition of religion, however. Its seems that is required for the debate to cease: religion and science agreeing on what religion actually is.

It sounds like you may have picked up where Daniel Dennett left off in regards to peeling away the magical elements from religion.
04:12 PM on 06/29/2010
In support of your assertion that the battle is based on misinterpr­etation, it would be helpful to point out that the non-litera­l understand­ing of religion has been propounded by most of the great religious thinkers themselves­. Anti-relig­ion ideologues often base their conception­s of "how most people understand religion" on a combinatio­n of small-samp­le surveys and media representa­tions (always focused on fundamenta­lists). But surely Martin Buber and Thomas Merton are more reliable experts on religion than your crazy uncle and the 700 Club.