Obama's Clinton Dilemma
As Dave Neiwart points out over at FDL, the results for Hillary in North Carolina and Indiana were less than she needed, and may have destroyed her chances with the superdelegates. Her speech sounded suspiciously like a concession speech. Now anyone counting Hillary out until she formally says she's out is taking a big chance, this is the energizer bunny of candidates. But let's assume she will decide the gig's up and to throw in the towel and turn our eyes forward.
Obama has his work cut out for him. The possibility that a lot of Hillary's white working class base could turn to McCain or stay home should be a real worry for him. There's been a great deal of bitterness and anger on both sides of the fight. And, to be crass and point out the unpalatable truth, there isn't a lot in it for Hillary to back Obama in a more than pro-forma "going through the motions" fashion. If he loses, she's the presumptive nominee in 4 years, after all. If he wins, she probably has to wait 8 years, and she's not getting any younger. If she really wants to be president, well, Obama's still in the way. Now I'm not saying she won't help Obama even if such thoughts are going through her mind, no doubt she understands what another 4 years of a Republican presidency would mean. Still, there's help, and there's going all out. And there's a lot of space between the two.
So if I'm Obama; if I'm one of Obama's advisors, no matter how much I may share the view of some associated with the campaign about Hillary, I'd be thinking real hard right now about what it's going to take to bring her and Bill on board in a big way, so that they do everything possible to really deliver the votes of their supporters.
For Bill, probably a seat on the Supremes if the opportunity comes up (and it will, if Obama is elected.) For Hillary? Probably Senate Majority leader--it's not like Harry Reid really likes the job anyway.
For our hopes of there being a Democratic President taking office in 2009 I trust that similar thoughts are going through Obama's mind. Because he's going to need all the help he can get.
Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to the Indiana and North Carolina primary results
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"If he wins, she probably has to wait 8 years, and she's not getting any younger."
This concept makes me laugh. The enormous ego that has to be involved to even write such a thing about your candidate. In 2012, assuming there was no such thing as revenge voting and Obama actually was elected, the honeymoon will long be over and the joke will be that nothing was fixed and we'll have our own little civil war brewing. Yes, that's right racism is still alive. The bad economy is being felt by yes, god forbid, the elite. We are in three wars now, instead of two. But he was right. He brought about CHANGE.
Then Hillary can win and clean up everyone's mess. There is no way Obama would be a two-term president. God that makes me laugh.
** Elvis is dead, sweetie pie. Get used to it.
Please, I beg you, stop being so hate filled and spiteful. Learn to forgive.
A disbarred supreme? Even if it was only temporarily, that seems like inordinate chutzpah to me.
Bill Clinton as a supreme court justice? Thanks for my best laugh of the morning. Assuming he wanted to walk away from his current lucrative gig (and all of the associated travel time away from the Mrs.) on what planet would a disbarred lawyer survive the nomination process.
I think Hillary's more likely to go for Governor of New York. By temperment she's more likely to be happier as Queen of a smaller country that acting as Grand Vizier to Obama's monarch.
I think you're right Gary. That's the plum they're going to offer Hillary, and if she's smart she'll take it. She's ready-made for New York's rough and tumble politics, she's burned too many bridges nationally with her Rovian presidential bid to work her way to the top of the collegial heap in the Senate, and in the scandal department, having a husband who likes using interns as human humidors is nothing compared to the current governor or his immediate predecessor.
I think Obama would make a king of Kenya.
Not that I want Bill clinton to be a Supreme, but you don't have to be a lawyer to be appointed to the Supreme Court.
Hello?
What on earth are you talking about?
The Clinton's are the one's with the most to lose if they do not get behind Obama in a very meaningful way! Failing to do so, will leave them with a lasting black mark on the Clinton legacy, reduce their influence significantly PLUS have the potential to impact them financially because they have both traded on their name and contacts to make money. Remember the 119 Million?
They are owed nothing, the party is owned everything.
By the way, a job on the supremes? Are you kidding?
Bill Clinton is a disbarred lawyer!
Not a good qualification for a seat among the supremes!
You are paying attention and i admire your post. But....? Think you over-estimate how long the American memory is. The Clintons do not. Their backers will never blame her for an Obama defeat. Then, after four years of McCain, she rides in on a white horse carrying a banner that says "I told you so!" In such a situation, even i, an Obama supporter, would be glad to see her. She knows it.
With a Democratic Congress, pulled along by an Obama victory, former President Bill Clinton would have a real chance at the Supreme Court. He would be great in that situation. Worth three of anyone else in an argument. He is brilliant and is himself "not so perfect as to forget what it is to be human". That is the American ideal when it comes to judges. He is not disbarred anymore. You know that, right?
If I recall my history correctly, the President of the United States of America nominates candidates for the position of Supreme Court Justice, last I checked Barack isn't President, isn't this a tad premature?
I believe there is something called the general which takes place on November 4th. I would advise the Obamanuts not to assume that the repubs will just lie down and give him the presidency.
So, this conversation is mute at this point!
Atually, it isn't premature to start considering Supreme Court Justices because it is likely that both Ginsberg and Stevens, two moderate, left-leaning Justices will likely retire during the next administration. In order to preserve the balance of the court which is split right now down the middle with Kennedy in the swing seat, it is vital that Obama be elected to office so that he can make those appointments.
However, having said that, there is no way that the Senate can approve Bill Clinton to one of those seats, even if he wanted it because he was disbarred over lying to the Grand Jury.
This is true, but, once again, you are assuming that he becomes our next president.
I was taught a long time ago never to assume, because you can end up looking like the first three letters of the word assume.
Disbarment is not a disqualification for the Supreme Court, I don't believe. I don't think you even have to be a lawyer. But I would prefer to see Edwards on the Court and David Iglesias as A G.
I disagree with the premise of your commentary. Poor or middle class white men who participated (and even those who didn't) in Rush Limbaugh's "Project Chaos" were never going to vote for Hillary, or any Democrat, anyway. Many pollsters are saying today that the small percentage that Hillary won by in Indiana is attributed to Limbaugh's shannigans. I actually believe it would be MUCH harder, if Hillary were the nominee, for her to get any of the black vote, thus it would be SHE who has the harder hurdle to jump. The Democratic Party cannot win the general without the black vote. No way. No how. Polls have indicated that Billary have really burned their bridges with the African American communities of America. Most have said that unless Barack is the nominee, they will either stay home, or write in his name as a protest vote in November. The question for the Democrats is this:
Which constituency has the greatest power? African Americans?(who have always voted as a bloc for Dems) or Bubbas? (who have mostly voted w/the Repubs since Reagan) Answer: Don't piss off African Americans this year!!
For all the dis-loyalty and disrespect the AA's and egg-heads have shown to the Clintons and their supporters they can freaking forget anything more that a cursory nod to get obama elected.
Also forget getting any help from Rendell of PA , Corzine of NJ and Strickland of OH and Granholm of MI.
Anyone who says this is not an ideological fight in the democratic part is stupid. It is a fight between the loony-left wing and the moderate wing in the party. We cannot allow the extreme left to take over the democratic party and thats worth losing 2008 for.
Mccain campaign has already formed a "hillary supporters for mccain" group. See it attract 50% of hillarys' supporter. Mccain is the ONLY candidate on the right that is acceptable to moderate democrats and independents. Credit to the republicans for nominating him.
MCCAIN 2008 !!!!!!
"a fight between the loony-left wing and the moderate wing in the party." ???
The "moderate" wing that is for WAR, WAR and more WAR? Now THAT is loony.
You're correct -- too many Obama supporters seem to have forgotten why John Kerry lost and how Bush won a second term.
They talk as if they were out of the country when Bush was re-elected.
If Rove can gaet Bush a second terms by squeaking out a win in Ohio where Kerry lost by only a handful of votes...
... Rove will have an easier job getting MCCain into the White House.
And he doesn't even have to work that negative -- just run all those ads showing how McCain suffered for his country in Viet Nam.
Tell McCain's hero story over and over and over.
Then let McCain do hithing in debates against Obama (obama is WEAK in debates), pointing out Obama's lack of experience on NATIONAL politics.
I'm amazed that Obama supporters can so easily deny this reality.
"seem to have forgotten why John Kerry lost and how Bush won a second term." ???
Those electronic voting machines for which there is NO WAY to verify the tally, that's how.
Kerry lost because he made too many mistakes in his campaign, including an ineffective defense against the swift boat ads. Obama doesn't have Kerry's problems. and the 527s have been effectively neutered.
Even Rove and unfettered 527s would not have been able to win Bush a second term if we had not been in the middle of a war. Although Rove's despicable tactics are effective against far too many uneducated Americans, that dynamic isn't in play this time.
And McCain is great at debates? He can't even keep track of what he says from day to day. His story will get told over and over all right: all his flip flops on the self righteous right, Bushie's tax cuts, bringing soldiers back from Iraq, fighting this was for oil, and on and on. As far as being a POW, what does that have to do with being President? Thousands of Americans have been POW's but that hardly qualifies them for the Oval Office. Neither does making it through the USNA because of Admiral Daddy and Admiral Grandpap. A list of the great Presidents doesn't include any professional soldiers or sailors and let's remember that the last USNA grad was Carter. At least he actually commanded something before getting into politics.
I think you're wrong. Obama should ask for a million (just kididng) debates with mcCain. Every time the 2 of them appear on the same stage you'll see a short, old white guy with incipient alzheimers next to a tall dark & handsome younger man who is calm, cool & well-spoken, and who has a fascinating life story to tell. If it were Clinton and McCain, it would just be 2 peas in the pod, being the same on most issues (gas tax holiday, anybody?)
Yes Obama Can - be worse than McCain.
Funy thing is that if I could think of even one positive thing about Obama, I might consider it...but if there's something there, it certainly does elude
Will you change your tune if Hillary throws her support behind him? Or are you a republican throwing sand in this Democratic discussion?
How about his working with Sen. Lugar to pass a bill to corral loose nukes? If you're sincere, you can check out his web site barrackoba
For all the disloyalty and disrespect the Clinton's have shown to the American electorate, they can freaking forget anything more than a swift boot in the behind.
Rendell, Corzine, Strickland and Granholm will back Obama when this is over.
Anyone who says this is an ideological fight in the Democratic Party is stupid, both candidates are progressive liberals.
McCain is a neo-con fool who if he gets elected will draw the United States into WW III McCain is the ONLY candidate who will ensure a third Bush term.
"both candidates are progressive liberals." ???
WRONG. Hillary has disowned the "liberal" label. When asked by the MSM if she was a dreaded Liberal, she said "I am not a liberal. I am a progressive independen
Rendell, Corzine Strickland & Granholm are Democrats-ic state governors who will back the Democratic candidate, whoever it is, because it is to the monetary advantage of of their states (PA< NJ< OH & MI) to have a Dem in the White House.
Most of the mideast view women as chattel, and blacks as subservient. Good luck if the dems win
Barack Obama shatters the old stereotypes.
Not sure what your reference is to the "mideast" is all about, bruce9432. Would you clarify, please?
I think even more than Hillary, Ed Rendell and Ted Strickland will have their work cut out for them in the coming months.
And who is Ian Welsh anyway. And what is his claim to knowledge about what anybody is going to do. I love these people who think they can read the tea leaves.
In light of the fact that so many of you here are proposing that Bill or Hillary be on the Supreme Court, I have to ask.
At this point, whose likability poll would be lower, Bill or Hillary's?
I would like to pose a question to all of you who feel that Hillary should be appointed to the Supreme Court.
In light of what we know about the poor little girl that was raped and Hillary took the case of the defendant and then proceeded to tear the young girl apart to win the case, would you want Hillary making decisions that would affect all of us? Could we trust her to make the right decision, or would it be a decision made to her own benefit?
I don't know, Hillary has proven herself to be so very untrushworthy.
I'm sorry Bill Clinton ain't now Supreme Court Justice material. That would be a joke. The guy was disbarred! And her as Majority leader is difficult to swallow. She would become the bane of Obama's Presidency. I think she should run for Governor of New York or better yet, just quit and let us all go on without this drama. While I will stop dumping on Hillary- not that my voice matters- I will still not forget what Bill Clinton really did to the party and it was not all good.
a note to Relax08...
I don't think Hillary would accept a Supreme Court position even if it was offered to her. There's far too many active political games yet to play.
What are you talking about. Hillary Clinton was a corporate attorney. She did not do criminal law. Where did you get this information.
Hillary called Barack and elitist, a dangerous '60s radical (by association), a Reagan-loving Republican, a turban wearing foreigner, and a pointy-headed elitist. Hillary Clinton = Spiro Agnew in drag.
Either Clinton would strangle a litter of kittens with their bare hands if they thought it would win them more votes. Bill C. sold a presidential pardon to Mark Rich... in broad daylight! Both supported Bush's war in Iraq until it became a political liability! HRC's answer to the problems posed by peak oil is... a gas tax holiday! They should be shunned from all human society... put under a microscope and studied till someone finds a cure. Oh.. and she voted against banning cluster bombs in civilian areas (which killed or injured upwards of a thousand Iraqi civilians). President Obama may have to satisfy the Clinton's insane lust for power by offering them positions, but it will be a sad, sad thing to see.
"President Obama may have to satisfy the Clinton's insane lust for power by offering them positions" ???
But WHY? Why did Al Gore choose Joe Lieberman as his running mate? Why did JFK choose LBJ as his running mate?
I'm hoping Obama chooses someone he trusts, rather than having the party impose a choice on him.
Everyone but me seems to be missing the obvious solution to this dilemma, which is to offer her a cabinet position with foreign policy experience rather than the VP slot. Obviously the VP slot is too close to Obama in the public's eye for it to sit easily with people who are backing him because of his message about changing the status quo in Washington. But a high-profile cabinet position puts her squarely under his leadership while offering her prestige that will likely mollify a large percentage of her hard core constituency.
Sad, but politics is about reality, not about ideals. Democracy is a messy business, but its the best game in town.
Nothing in this post is true, not one word of it. See, how can we support this stuff ? You people are crazy. "President Obama" doesn't have to satisfy the Clintons - he needs the millions and millions of voters who respect and honor the accomplishments of the Clinton presidency, the millions and millions of voters who identify themselves as Democrats, and who did so way, way before anyone ever heard of Barack Obama. He needs us to become "President Obama." Period. You can stop lecturing us any time now. We've tried to tell you a thing or two about coalition politics, but you won't hear it. Instead you try to outdo each other with your smears and accusations. The point of this article is that YOU NEED US to WIN.
"And, to be crass and point out the unpalatable truth, there isn't a lot in it for Hillary to back Obama in a more than pro-forma "going through the motions" fashion."
I beg to differ.
If she finally drops out or acknowledges defeat and fails to enthusiastically and whole-heartedly support Obama in the Presidential election, then she will both obliterate the "Clinton legacy" and make myself and many others look altogether too intelligent for pointing out that the Clintons aren't really Democrats - they're Republican moles.
You are 100% right. If she indeed had some cajones she would campaign for Obama in West Virginia and Kentucky right now and turn her capacity to still draw crowds as a constant two week endorsement of Obama. Edwards should also go out on the campaign trail right now too.
This is going to be a hard fight. To elect the first African-American President will be a war and it will take all of America to stand up to the forces that will try to stop it. They would have been equally strong against Hillary and the first female President, but the battle lines are drawn and it's time for everyone to get on board to take on this truly historic fight. America needs a real change and America needs to wipe out the stench of the last eight years and frankly the stench of the last 16 years of gutter Contract on America politics. This is the 21st Century and if America is to remain the most important country in the world the way we do the business of government and politics has to evolve.
Obama 08 and Beyond
"If she indeed had some cajones" ???
I just looked, and she doesn't. She was just pretending.
Well said and common sense but will have to wait and see the reality of the Clintons next moves....(
Outstanding commentary, Relaxo8. It would be wonderful (and maybe a miracle) if Hillary would step up and go all out for Obama from here on out. Ditto for Edwards. Her image has been seriously damaged by her kitchen sink strategies and her gas tax holiday pandering. By acting with class now and working to unify the party under an Obama candidacy, she'll emerge as a true winner.
Give her a few days to mull over her options and enter into discussions with the Obama camp. By the time of the WV primary, she may be ready to take the logical road...
I don't think the Obamabots are at all in danger of looking "all too intelligent". I wouldn't lose sleep over that.
The argument regarding the so called 'white working class base' has been torn into pieces by Indiana and N. Carolina.
These 'Labels' and descriptions which fence geographical areas and people into cattle pens, are being unveiled for what they are,.. attempts to influence, not the 'reports' they come wrapped in...
It will be a rare insanity that would make a community under siege to vote for the attacking kingdom on the basis of distractions that are only 'Skin Deep' !
Intelligence is not taught in college, nor does it have any relation to class.
"Intelligence is not taught in college, nor does it have any relation to class."
I agree. Take, for example, almost any Fox "News" commentator. Typically fairly intelligent, but extraordinarily short of class.
Oh, wait...you meant the wealth thing...
Hear, hear!! I agree completely with you.
they are a bit broad and overly generalizing but I think they are based on exit polls
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