From Donny and Marie Osmond, to HBO's "Big Love," to Proposition 8 in California, to persistent -- and inaccurate -- Beltway legends about how half of the CIA is staffed by members of the LDS Church, America's Mormons have a way of episodically popping into the national consciousness.
The recent ascent of Mitt Romney to the status of presumptive Republican nominee is no exception to this rule. It is yet another "Mormon moment" in a long string of such moments dating back to the 19th century.
In my conversation with Hampden-Sydney College professor Matthew Bowman (author of "The Mormon People: The Making of an American Faith"), we explore the possibility that Mormons themselves aren't necessarily the biggest fans of Mormon moments. The national scrutiny can be taxing and treacherous, especially for a community as family-oriented and averse to the spotlight as this one is.
Dr. Bowman goes on to make some really intriguing observations about how and why both Evangelicals and secular liberals share a statistically verifiable hesitancy to vote for a Mormon candidate.
After calling attention to Romney's striking "Mad Men" sartorial style, Bowman turns to the complex issue of Romney's perception among African-American voters. What with the LDS Church's (now-abrogated) exclusionist teachings about blacks, this is no small matter. Consider that conservative African-American voters in Ohio in 2004 may have played a small part in handing that crucial state to George W. Bush (Wineburg 2007, p. 88).
We are now living through the biggest "Mormon moment" of them all, and the coming months will teach us a lot about America and its ability to fully embrace its religious minorities.
 |
 |
|
| Obama | Romney | |
|---|---|---|
| Electoral Votes (270 to win) |
332 | 206 |
| Obama | Romney | |
|---|---|---|
| Total | 65,899,660 | 60,932,152 |
| Percent | 51.1% | 47.2% |
| Democrats* | Republicans | |
|---|---|---|
| Current Senate | 53 | 47 |
| Seats gained or lost | +2 | -2 |
| New Total | 55 | 45 |
| Democrats | Republicans | |
|---|---|---|
| Seats won | 201 | 234 |
Gordon Hinckley on Why Blacks Were Denied the LDS Priesthood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_KERZlwOXM
"It was a landmark occasion. We were in the temple. We gathered in prayer, and President [Spencer] Kimball led [us] in prayer, and he talked about it. It had been on his mind for a good while. And as he prayed, he talked with the Lord about it, and there just settled over us a feeling that this is the right thing; the time has come; now is the opportunity. And on the basis of that we proceeded." - Hinckley
"There was just a feeling that came over all of us, and we knew that it was the right thing at the right time and that we should proceed. And this made all the difference in the world. We've grown strong in Africa and in Brazil and in other places. There is no race bias among us. It's been well received all over the church, and I'm satisfied in my own mind, as one who was there, that the right thing happened at the right time in the right way." - Hinckley
The Mormons had a similar revelation on polygamy in the 1890's when that practice threatened their ability to gain statehood for Utah.
http://www.salon.com/2012/05/06/the_book_of_mitt/
Happy Reading
netzach wrote:
"And if you looked at the original autographs, they would, in fact, be different. But the message, with it's common source (God), would be similar."
1. We can't look at "original autographs" because there are no ancient BOM texts. Joseph claimed the plates were taken by Moroni.
2. We have no ancient BOM language either. There's no way to link the lost "language" to Hebrew, Egyptian or any Native American language.
In the real world, the most ancient BOM text dates to Joseph Smith and the oldest BOM language is King James English from after 1612.
netzach- You're describing a nonexistent language phenomena. Can you show me another example of a person with unique culture, language, experiences, expressions, sentence structure, grammar, analogies and a unique personality- speaking and writing the identical words of another person, more than 1000 years in advance?
Joseph represented the BOM as coming directly from the "gold" plates. He never told anyone he was using the KJV during "translation."
netzach- If Joseph Smith copied the KJV (like you describe) it makes Joseph a liar and a fraud.
Your comments deal with BOM plagiarism of the Old Testament KJV. None of your post applies.
The passage in Moroni 7:45 is copied from 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 in the New Testament. BOM people couldn't have brought those verses with them. The apostle Paul's words didn't even exist when Lehi came to the New World.
So how did New Testament KJV verses and passages end up in the BOM? The BOM plagiarized the 1612 KJV. There is no other possible explanation.
Your willigness to stretch the truth for your own belief is blank. ( I dont wish for this post to not meet guidelines.
Protestant/ Catholic believe;
1. Jesus was born of an omni-potent supernatural God known as the Father and Mary was still a virgin.
2. In the Trinity, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are actually one God in three forms.
3. No one goes to heaven except through Jesus.
4. God made Adam and Eve and they lived in the Garden of Eden.
Mormons believe;
1. Jesus was born of God the Father a flesh and blood being that had sex with Mary and after she was not a virgin.
2. In multiple Gods in multiple universes and God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit that reign in our universe are three separate blood and flesh beings.
3. No one gets to heaven except through Joseph Smith (prophet) and founder of Mormonism. There are three different heavens. Celestial, where God resides and his followers will be allowed. Terrestrial in the middle where all those that followed Moses law will reside. Telestial the bottom heaven where people that followed carnal law will reside.
4. God brought Adam and Eve from another planet and the Garden of Eden was in Missouri.
As an Atheist I think religion is a crutch for people that can’t rely on their own integrity and the thought that this life is all there is seems to be unbearable for them. But are these sects different? Are you kidding, Mormons make everyday Christians look scientific.
http://www.mormonwiki.org/Conception_of_Jesus
Thank You
2) Again wrong, on at least two counts. God as flesh and blood (as noted above) and the Holy Spirit (as the name suggests) is a being of spirit.
3) Still wrong. People in the first two centuries have to see St. Peter first, as he was the head Apostle in that dispensation.
4) Wrong, yet again. Another planet??? Where do you get this nonsense from?
"And the Lord said unto me: These are the governing ones; and the name of the great one is Kolob, because it is near unto me, for I am the Lord thy God: I have set this one to govern all those which belong to the same order as that upon which thou standest." (The Book of Abraham 3:3)
“President Obama announced his support for same-sex marriage
less than 48 hours after the Washington Post reported that prominent political
donors were threatening to withhold donations over the president’s position on
gay rights.”
“The Washington Post noted on Tuesday that roughly 20
percent of Obama top campaign bundlers—who are responsible for arranging
$500,000 and up—“publicly identified themselves as gay.”
Obama’s announcement fits a pattern of changing positions on
major issues for what appear to be financially motivated reasons.”
http://www.defendthefamily.com/_docs/resources/6390601.pdf
I'm pretty sure that most of these comments are by gay activists, even those pretending to be Christians. They have been trained by leading anti-Mormons.
The BOM can't be an ancient text because it contains almost identical verses and chapters from the 1611-1612 KJV Bible.
Compare Moroni 7:45 & 1 Corinthians 13:4-7:
"And charity suffereth long, and is kind, and envieth not, and is not puffed up, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil, and rejoiceth not in iniquity but rejoiceth in the truth, beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things." (Moroni 7:45)
"Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things." (1 Corinthians 13:4-7)
Where did those words come from? Mormon and the apostle Paul were different men in entirely different parts of the world.
Paul and Mormon spoke different languages. Inspired by the same concepts, their words and sentence structure would be entirely different.
Neither of them spoke English. How could the King James translation of a Greek Pauline text- end up in the mouth of a prophet who spoke Hebrew/Egyptian?
The BOM copies the 1612 KJV. It's not an ancient text. The BOM is pseudo history.
Message originated from God, through two different prophets - why would the message be different?
Did Joseph Smith use the KJV when "translating" Mormon's words?
Did Smith use the KJV when "translating" the Isaiah chapters too? I thought those chapters "came" from the plates of Laban.
When did Joseph bring out the KJV Bible and start copying? I don't remember any eyewitness accounts of Joseph having a Bible open to enhance Moroni's record.
Did Joseph Smith ever mention copying the KJV? He represented the BOM as a direct translation of plates written in an ancient, lost language. So, when did the KJV verses and chapters become part of the story?
Here is how they intend to do this: From CNA:
Bohnett “..advised an “aggressive response” ...and also a “pre-emptive campaign” that anticipates the arguments of homosexual activists’ opponents and undermines their credibility.” Going after “…Catholic, Mormon, and evangelical churches…”
Also, read this article- "Crafting Gay Children"
http://www.defendthefamily.com/_docs/resources/6390601.pdf
Thanks for the confession.
1. In 1869, Utah gave women the vote. That made 2 territories, Utah and Wyoming, and 0 states that allowed women to vote.
2. In 1887, the federal government took the vote away from Utah women.
3. At the very time Arthur Conan Doyle wrote "A Study in Scarlet" depicting Mormons as forcing women into polygamous marriages, Utah had the most liberal divorce laws in The USA and possibly the world. People from other states, such as, New York, sought divorces in Utah because they wee easier to get.
First off, most non-Mormon settlers in the 'Utah colony' of the time, belonged to what was then the Liberal Party. There's where the progress came from (women voters). As a colony, they led the way in ideology by decades, even a century.
Second, Utah was prevented from being part of the United States, due to the Mormon practice of polygamy. Once Mormons disavowed the practice, Utah was welcomed into the Union. That was 1892, I believe.
After that, Romney's grandfather moved his family to Mexico, where he was free to continue to practice polygamy.
Now, what was your argument?
In 1842 (when women were usually constrained to home and hearth), Joseph Smith encouraged the women of the church to form their own organization, and said the church could not be correct until the women were organized. Women have always had a say and a vote in church affairs. The first women to vote in municipal elections were women in Mormon settlements, and women voted in Utah Territory until the Federal government disenfranchised them in 1887. Advanced education for women has always been encouraged. Some of the best formative writing about our faith sprang from the pens of erudite and educated women, such as Eliza R. Snow and Emmeline B. Wells. Brigham Young and other early leaders not only encouraged university education for women, but sent their own daughters to eastern universities. The assumption that Mormon women are subservient lacks factual foundation.
NOT EVERY RELIGION HAS TEACHINGS THAT IT IS SUPPOSED
TO TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT
AND MITT HAS A LOT OF "MORMON MOMENTS" -- meaning he is never wrong
IT IS NOT THE BUSINESS OF ANY CHURCH to "rescue" the Constitution to ANYONE but the kooky members of your mean and distructive cult.
PROP 8 WOULD BE A GREAT EXAMPLE OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL MESSING IN LAW BY A RELIGION
We do draw lines. We do say that white supremacists are wrong. We do say that anti-Semitism in wrong. We do say that Taliban-like suppression of women is wrong.
So why can't we say that religions that deny empirically derived scientific truths are wrong?
Mormonism is a case in point and a fascinating one because in the study of its history we can see how religions are crafted and then fomented by human beings and largely as a means of exerting control over weaker human beings.
The "truths" of Mormonism can be brought crashing down in an moment but for its being protected by our own sentimentalism about religious belief. A simple case in point is the Mormon "Book of Abraham," the original hieroglyphic manuscript text of which still survives and which actually says nothing at all that in the least resembles what the so-called prophet Joseph Smith said it did.
Scientific progress can only be made when Science proves itself wrong. Only when a theory fails to correctly predict the outcome is the theory modified.
"... the original hieroglyphic manuscript text of which still survives ..."
Really? Perhaps you'd care to tell us where the Scroll of Abraham is, so that it can be examined. All we have now are some papyrus fragments - which may or may not be related.
It should be noted that the Reorganized LDS church -- that is, the remnant that refused to follow Brigham Young and was led by Smith's widow and Smith's son -- rejected the authenticity of the Book of Abraham from the moment of that schism.
By the way, why is it that most of the so-called witnesses to the Book of Mormon, such as Oliver Cowdrey, ultimately were either excommunicated from the LDS church or chose to leave it? Did they perhaps know something that Smith didn't want us to know about?
Mormonism is predicated entirely upon a completely unsubstantiated notion that the lost tribes of Israel found their way to the Americas in the 8th century BCE, evolved elaborate civilizations, and then killed each other off in a series of gruesome wars. The Book of Mormon then asserts that the remnant from that struggle are somehow a degenerate group.
Mormonism is, at best, a 19th century version of Scientology, but with a Christian twist.
My problem with voting for a devout Mormon is that I cannot support any candidate who subscribes to a belief system that denies historical reality.
How can I entrust the fate of my nation at this crucial point in the history of our planet to any people who refuse on religious grounds to consider facts in a dispassionate manner?
With most religionists this question doesn't come up so much because their religions' origins are so far back in the Bronze Age that they have somehow come to an accomodation with our own times. But Mormonism is still so recent in its invention that one can legitimately raise a question about its adherents grasp of reality.
BTW Obama claims he is a Christian so that makes his beliefs just as bizarre and nonscientific as any other member of the LDS faith.