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James Peron

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Know Nothings and Immigrants: Some Things Never Change

Posted: 10/05/11 11:49 AM ET

There are two statues, in two different countries, which honor Annie Moore. One is in Ireland, the other in the United States. Annie Moore was not great philanthropist, nor was she a scientist, a great leader or educator. She spent most of her life a housewife and full time mother, having had 11 children, five of whom survived -- no wonder she died at the age of 47 in 1924.

The reason Annie was honored is simple. The young girl, with her two younger brothers, had left Ireland as immigrants to America, where they would join their parents, already here. Annie was the first person to enter the country through the famous Ellis Island immigration station. She was certainly not the first Irish immigrant, nor the last.

In truth, she was just one of 2.5 million immigrants who fled starvation and poverty in Ireland to come to America. They were not welcomed with open arms. What they faced was hostility. The anti-immigrant feelings were even more blatant than those we see directed at Mexicans today. Employers openly stated "No Irish Need Apply" when they offered jobs. These immigrants were poor, mostly uneducated and perhaps most terrifying of all, Catholic. This "threat" spread fear among American Protestants and a mass movement, the Know Nothings, came into existence. The name came from a promise by members, that if asked about the organization, they were to say they "know nothing" about it.

These anti-immigrant activists organized the American Party, and successfully ran candidates around the country, pledged to stamp out the evils of immigration. The complaints that were made about Irish immigrants are pretty similar to those we hear today about Mexican immigrants. The xenophobes insisted the Irish were lazy, prone to crime, drank too much, and were stealing jobs from good white Americans. And, of course, they were also Catholics, in cahoots with the Vatican to take control of the United States and stamp out Protestantism, for good measure.

Of course, it wasn't only the Irish who were hated. Anti-immigrant activists also targeted Germans. They were displeased that so many German language newspapers existed and that many Germans still spoke their native language, even when living in the United States. Anti-Asian feelings were strong in the West as well.

These immigrants, for the most part, came to America to improve their lives and the lives of their children. That is what they were looking for. I suspect not much has changed since then, at least not in way of motivation. But today the hurdles to legal immigration are so onerous that few would-be immigrants can surmount them.

The earliest of my ancestors, came to America in an unusual way. He walked here. Most immigrants came by boat, but he was a French Canadian who walked into the United States. His motivations also seemed a bit different than most. He came to the United States in order to fight in the Civil War against the slave-holding South. His goal was the abolition of slavery, but he stayed after that job was completed.

Another ancestor sailed to the United States from Sweden and made his way to the Mid-West. All my immigrant ancestors came to America during a time when immigration was bureaucratically simple. This is what so many anti-immigrant Americans forget, when they talk about how their "ancestors came to America legally." Of course, they did. Back then it was easy to immigrate legally and damn hard to immigrate illegally. The hardest part of immigration during the 19th century was the boat trip, or the walk from Canada, as the case may be.

Today, very few Americans would say this country would be better off without those 2.5 million Irish immigrants. Had we cut them off, we would have lost their children, or grandchildren -- people such as Gene Kelly, Diamond Jim Brady, Henry Ford, Walt Disney, Tom Clancy, Grover Cleveland, Ronald Reagan, and millions of hard-working, but lesser-known individuals, who built this country.

Certainly, while they were immigrating, there was no shortage of politicians ready to damn the Irish and predict disasters they would inflict on America, yet today you would be hard pressed to find one politician, of any stature, willing to say Irish immigration was a bad thing.

What baffles me is why the modern Know Nothings, with their Tea Party rallies and anti-immigration rhetoric, assume their perceptions are so much more accurate than their compadres in the 1800s. Personally, I suspect that these modern advocates of closing the immigration door are no more likely to be correct. History does repeat itself, or at the very least, bad ideas continue to come back, over and over, just with different labels attached. And the bad ideas are no more correct, a century later, than they were during the first round of this debate.

 
 
 
 
 
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicky Valentine Proud
It is what it is.
02:24 AM on 10/08/2011
Here is a stellar example of an immigrant: Bruce Lee. He was born in 1940, in San Francisco, to Chinese parents who were part of a traveling theater group. They could have felt entitled to stay here because of their US born son, but returned to China and raised both him and their other children (all born in Hong Kong) there. When he turned 18, he came to the US, claiming his citizenship and from there he worked at menial jobs and then educated himself before he became a big-time star, all the while enduring racism as well. See the differences?? That is why we need to re-vamp the 14th Amendment and do away with this birthright citizenship. We need to adopt simliar laws that exist in other countries in this area. Two illegals should equal a US citizen, thus making it more difficult to deport them because of the legal child.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicky Valentine Proud
It is what it is.
02:40 AM on 10/08/2011
I forgot to add 'not'..two illegals should not equal a US citizen.
05:49 PM on 10/08/2011
So you say you admire Bruce Lee. But you also want to make sure there is never another one? Ha ha.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicky Valentine Proud
It is what it is.
04:24 PM on 10/09/2011
No, I wish that these folks would realize there is a right way of doing it and he did it.
10:43 AM on 10/07/2011
The tea-bagging hypocrites forget that their ancestors committed genocide against the native population.
Whereas, today's immigrants do back-breaking work that benefits all of us.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
spytheweb
12:29 PM on 10/07/2011
They also kill many Americans.

http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp
06:00 PM on 10/07/2011
Nah... it was many civil wars, unwanted by both sides, but the way it ended was not as you describe
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James Peron
06:49 AM on 10/07/2011
Nothing riles up the racists like a mention of immigration. Sure they all say they are only against "illegal" immigration, while they push for laws making "legal" immigration virtually impossible. They brag about how their immigrant ancestors, most likely poor and uneducated, came to America "legally" ignoring the fact that to do so then simple required getting off the boat. There were none of the roadblocks that have been put in the way since then. It is simply a lie that they only oppose "illegal" immigration, but they want to continue to pretend that they aren't bigots.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
IllTakeTheRedEye
Do you know what a nonemployer business is?
08:34 AM on 10/07/2011
Demagoguery is not something you should engage in if you want to appear to be the authority on this subject.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
didbblejr
~Opinions, distinguish our Great Nation
09:01 AM on 10/07/2011
That's why we have laws. So by your POV just because we want to make the laws mor stringent and enforce the laws by sending "all illegals" packing we are racists and bigots.

The same can be said for you.

If "illegals" truly want to have a say in what laws are passed then they need to return home and apply to become a U.S. Citizen then they can spread their word and have their vote counted. Until then they have no voice.

You and the other columnists that are trying to use your biassed POV's blaiming the "whites" as you say. Well here in AL even the African Americans wanted this law. Have you looked at the population of AL? Majority rules.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
spytheweb
12:32 PM on 10/07/2011
These people would be illegal in any country on the planet. I'am a black democrat and i want all of these laws and more against illegal aliens.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
angelshalo321
09:56 PM on 10/06/2011
PEOPLE ARE MISSING THE POINT.. AMERICA USED TO BE THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITIES, BUT NO MORE.../ WE HAVE MILLIONS UNEMPLOYED ---MILLIONS ARE WORKING PART--TIME BECAUSE IS ALL THEY CAN GET.....WE DO NOT NEED MORE IMMIGRANTS--OR--ILLEGALS... WE DO NOT HAVE JOBS FOR AMERICANS SO IS TIME TO SHUT DOW THE LEGAL IMMIGRATION FOR GOOD... AMERICA IS IN SERIOUS TROUBLE IF WE DON'T SHUT THE LEGAL IMMIGRATION DOORS. BY THE WAY I'M HISPANIC...
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicky Valentine Proud
It is what it is.
02:23 AM on 10/07/2011
Good for you for revealing that angelshalo321, there are so many people out here that will lable someone a 'white racist' for speaking out against this issue. I support legal immigration, so to close off the country to everybody else would be unfair, on the other hand, I am against illegal immigration and would like the people that are elected into office to do their jobs abd enforce the laws of this land. These people do not deserve anything more than a one way trip home until they can come here legally, if they cannot, oh well, thenn work at making your own country better. This articles is apples and oranges, it tries to compare the hatred shown to legal Irish American immigrants to the hatred for the millions of ILLEGAL Mexican (he chose to single out a particular group, not me) immigrants. I, for one, do not hate anyone based on their race or color of skin, but what I do not like is that these people are taking advantage of privileges, such as healthcare, jobs, education, etc., that are supposed to be for LEGAL US citizens, all on my tax dollars. For one, illegal immigrants are from all over the world, and two, the Irish immigrants he speaks about came here legally and our further support of those who are here to the contrary is a slap in the face of all those who did abide the law.
05:06 AM on 10/07/2011
Boils down to this:
1. The Mexican elite have calculated that by exporting their uneducated, sick and criminal population to the US, they can retain their classist status quo. The practice works because US employers exploit these workers for profit.
2. Republican and Democratic strategists manipulate language and incite emotionalism and sentiment in order to garner votes.
3. The US has a liberal, legal immigration policy already in place, including a Guest Worker program.
4. If conservatives impeached Bill Clinton and liberals think that GW Bush should be indicted for war crimes, based on the premise that NO ONE IS ABOVE the law, then it follows that everyone in the country must follow the law, regardless of sentiment or heritage.
5. This isn't about *immigration* and certainly not related to the romantic notions about our immigrant ancestors. We're talking about a mass-migration of people from Mexico, Central and South America that, if left unchecked,will overwhem our health care, safety and social service systems. (re: Camp of the Saints.)

Fast forward 30 years: El Paso will be Mexico City and Chicago will be El Paso.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicky Valentine Proud
It is what it is.
01:41 AM on 10/08/2011
Yes, the voice of reason!!! Reagan granted 3 million illegal immigrants amnesty back in 1985, that number has now quadrupled, so what will all these folks have to say in another 25 years when it will quadruple to 48 million??? It needs to be nipped in the bud and it needs to happen NOW!!!!
12:55 PM on 10/06/2011
"These immigrants, for the most part, came to America to improve their lives and the lives of their children. That is what they were looking for. I suspect not much has changed since then, at least not in way of motivation."

Then you would be wrong. And that is the fundamental flaw of your incredibly inept hypothesis. When Irish, German, and Italian immigrants were flooding the US shores, the US was in a period of RAPID growth and the country had no massive welfare state, only private churches and charities to benefit the poor.

Thus the majority of the immigrants joined an increasing labor force and because they were forced to be self-reliant they became self-made and pushed themselves up to successively higher generations of wealth.

Have you heard the chants, read the slogans of what Illegal (another key component that you left out of your little tirade, the majority of those immigrants came over legally) immigrants want today? "Free healthcare", "Free Education." Those were actual signs at a rally I attended. What did the immigrants of the late 19th century want... A chance to work and build wealth.

Do not even try to compare as your analysis is the equivalent of a third graders.
01:01 PM on 10/06/2011
"Then you would be wrong. And that is the fundamenta­l flaw of your incredibly inept hypothesis­. When Irish, German, and Italian immigrants were flooding the US shores, the US was in a period of RAPID growth and the country had no massive welfare state, only private churches and charities to benefit the poor.

Thus the majority of the immigrants joined an increasing labor force and because they were forced to be self-relia­nt they became self-made and pushed themselves up to successive­ly higher generation­s of wealth."

That did not stop the nativists from calling the immigrants all sorts of dirty names, much as they do today.
Most of their rhetoric was based on lies then, as it is now.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
IllTakeTheRedEye
Do you know what a nonemployer business is?
01:45 PM on 10/06/2011
Nope. Ellis Island was a legal point of entry. Foreign nationals learned what the legal point of entry was, and they were examined and registered legally. Foreign nationals did not choose to sail their boats to Miami beach and say to H with Ellis Island, I am going to just set up here in Miami beach.

No, even back then when there was no TV, no cable, no satellite, no internet, radio was not even invented until the late 1800s, truly only telegraph and newspapers, the foreign nationals learned what the legal entry point was for the USA, and they entered the USA the legal way.
02:54 PM on 10/06/2011
Did I say that? Did I deny that they faced discrimination when they went to our shores?
Nope.

Next time read the actual analysis then comment. Otherwise we completely agree that both sets of immigrants faced discrimination. Thanks for agreeing with me.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
IllTakeTheRedEye
Do you know what a nonemployer business is?
01:20 PM on 10/06/2011
Thank you
02:24 PM on 10/06/2011
You are welcome.
12:20 PM on 10/06/2011
Not just the Irish. There are style trends as new groups come in and old groups are assimilated. An acquaintance who owns a business in a major Southern city says he prefers Latino workers to African-American workers. They're cheaper and don't complain as much. Farmers around the country are worried they won't be able to bring in their crops w/o immigrant help. One friend would hire Americans, but even in this economy they won't do that work. In NM, the busboy jobs previously done by teens have gone to a varying assortment of Latino immigrants. All work is good work is what I taught my children. The way of the world? Maybe we need some newthink on how we structure economies and what we expect from workers. What is clear is that assimilation was, is and should be part of the process.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicky Valentine Proud
It is what it is.
02:37 AM on 10/07/2011
I agree with you as far as your attitude towards a job. Anything is better than nothing, but what makes it harder is the fact that these illegals will do just as you stated and that is where Americans are going to have to go through a bit of an 'attitude adjustment' and learn that we all have to start small and work big. Not unless you were born in affluence will your first job be a six figure salary, yet we should not have to compete with people who have no legal right here. I bussed tables and washed dishes to put myself through college, those jobs were in no way beneath me. As far as having immigrant help, the US government has a work visa program that will enable these folks to reside and work in this country temporarily, so if they are sincere, there is an avenue they can explore. But to come here illegally and feel entitled to the same privileges afforded to the legal citizens is just plain wrong. I am not against immigration, just illegal immigration, and believe me there is a difference.
12:00 PM on 10/08/2011
"But to come here illegally and feel entitled to the same privileges afforded to the legal citizens is just plain wrong."

It's never been clear to me what "privileges" immigrants are getting. Their children get to go to school? Health care? My friend with the citrus groves provides minimal health care and no school. Those people move from harvest to harvest and region to region so not much chance for school. Maybe the concern is the cleaning ladies and gardeners and men standing outside Home Depot. They try not to miss work for health reasons, and if they're very sick they could lose a day waiting in a county emergency room. Same thing with their children. Single mothers, legal or illegal, will lose hourly work if they have to stay home and care for a sick child. The services we taxpayers provide are minimal and nothing close to "privileged." Better than where they came from? Yes. But not enough to bankrupt us.

I don't know anyone, any American, who wants to compete with these people for the work that they do. They're not taking jobs away. They're doing work that Americans refuse to do.

Not true with work we take away from Americans and ship overseas. That's where the focus should be, not on immigration.
10:59 AM on 10/06/2011
2.499 of the 2.5 million Irish would have never made it through the current legal mess to become "legal" immigrants.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
IllTakeTheRedEye
Do you know what a nonemployer business is?
12:35 PM on 10/06/2011
1] Try to enter China today to be a legal permanent immigrant worker, there is a reason why they have a 1-child policy. [2] Try to enter France or Switzerland today to be a legal permanent immigrant worker, there is a reason why it is so difficult today to do that in Europe today, the unemployment rates in Europe, and the laws in Europe protect the Europeans. You may be offered, as you are in the USA, to be a temporary guest worker, but you cannot stay permanently without similar requirements that are in the USA and Canada.

2] Anyone that compares Ellis Island's opening in January 2, 1892, to the year 2011 in the USA, may as well compare Rome in 753 B.C., to Rome in 117 A.D. The USA was not developed in the late 1800s, in contrast to 2011.

Anyone that does not understand that, is being dishonest.
12:44 PM on 10/06/2011
That's right, there is no need to compare the 1800s with 2011. So quit saying the Irish and the Italians and the Germans and the Jews came here "legally". It is not comparing apples to apples.
06:02 PM on 10/07/2011
Good point. Too bad that herenow12 did not understand what you wrote. An empty Rome in 753 B.C. versus a fully developed Rome in 117 A.D. That is typical of those that are advocates for giving amnesty for illegal aliens though...they only see what they want
whochi
This space for rent.
09:21 AM on 10/06/2011
"James, nice work but I had to do some editing to make sure you get your facts straight. See my correction below."

A.H.

"Today, very few Americans would say this country would be better off without those 2.5 million Irish immigrants." should read as follows:

"Today, very few Americans would say this country would be better off without those 2.5 million Irish LEGAL immigrants but a majority would say that we should do today what we did back then and then went on to become a great country - enforce the immigration laws."
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
James Peron
06:59 AM on 10/07/2011
Exactly how would these Irish immigrate illegally? There was no illegal immigration because it wasn't illegal to immigrate. This is like saying that prior to 1900 people were extremely lawful as no speeding tickets were issued. Right—no cars either. All immigration was legal because the country allowed people to come in openly.

It is incredibly ignorant of history to speak of those immigrants as being "legal" since there was no real possibility to be any other kind of immigrant. We went from a nation that allowed almost anyone, to immigrate freely, to one that blocks almost everyone who wants to do so. What changed is the legal system. Making something a crime, that previous was not one, does not prove that modern immigrants are more crime prone, only that government has become more obtrusive, bigger and that the regulatory state is taking away freedoms that once existed.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
IllTakeTheRedEye
Do you know what a nonemployer business is?
08:31 AM on 10/07/2011
NOTE: This has been saved in the event it does not appear

In terms of your other comment that has not appeared yet, what you wrote to me, I had already said as much and more, but you would of actually had to drill into the comments and read a bit, even those above.

In terms of what you wrote here, and what you said to me earlier. I disagree with what you just wrote here, as well what you wrote to me within the last 15 minutes, and in the interest of my time, I would like you to read all the Library of Congress laws that are listed at this link as support that I believe you to be incorrect.
http://library.uwb.edu/guides/USimmigration/USimmigrationlegislation.html

I do wonder if you have actually read all of what is at that link. USA laws did not begin in 1892 regarding foreign nationals entering the USA. Even before 1875, individual states had immigration laws, and if I had more time, I would give you those as well.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Vicky Valentine Proud
It is what it is.
02:00 AM on 10/08/2011
And you dismiss one basic truth, that there lies a border between the US and Mexico, Canada as well though we do not seem to have this sort of problem with Canada. That border is there to divide the two countries, each nation with their own people and laws, laws that are expected to be upheld by said people. When a person enters into another country without legal documentation it is illegal and thereby subject to punishment by deportation. By the way, learn your history, I do not recall the Mexicans that remained here after the US purchased the land that is now the Southwest (from Mexico ironically) being forced to leave, they were allowed to stay and maintain whatever land they had owned. Now fast forward to the 1940s, when after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, 120,000 Japanese-Americans (65% were legal US citizens) were forced to sell their property and such to be interred in a camp. Granted, they were not forced to leave the country, but they were imprisoned in their own country simply for being of Japanese-American ancestry. It cannot be that hard to immigrate to this country legally or there would not such a long waiting list for those who desire to, and my hats off to them, welcome aboard. But to say we should just allow these others to keep entering here illegally is just plain wrong. As I said before, you cannot erase the border. Read Mexico's immigration policy, read hypocrisy firsthand.
08:54 AM on 10/06/2011
Thanks for educating me. Silly me, I thought the reason that many people oppose the influx of illegal aliens was because they had broken the law by crossing the border ILLEGALLY. Man, you libs are so smart, thanks again.

Not to mention of course that real unemployment is 16%, Black unemployment about 25%, and that the Country is bankrupt. I am sure now that none of those things enter into the mind of the hateful racists that oppose illegal immigration. Racism, pure and simple, thats all it is.
abhorson
Si Si Chiquita. There's a woman worth her ransom
08:47 AM on 10/06/2011
Someone said the Irish were uneducated (especially in the 19th century) and drank too much ?? And now those same (wow 150 years later) Xenophobes are claiming that Mexicans are uneducated and drink too much ?

For the love of God, where do they GET such crazy ideas....? I mean these 'xenophobes' are just crazy, wacky...
frank1946
Tell the Truth
07:31 AM on 10/06/2011
There is goodness in Immigration, as long as it does not Bankrupt the Nation States Balance Sheet !

Few are objective about this question, they simply ignore the measures and refuse to set standards
for Legal Immigration, let alone Illegals ?

So we make our way on Sentiments ! And stealing from ourselves.
06:48 AM on 10/06/2011
If immigration is such a winner then just guarantee my wages will always go up by twice inflation.
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
IllTakeTheRedEye
Do you know what a nonemployer business is?
06:13 AM on 10/06/2011
There seems to be some peculiar idea that the USA does not have an unemployment problem, and that there is a huge demand in the USA for labor. That is a myth.

ANYONE that looks at the 2nd to last page of this report... 
http://www.bls.gov/ore/pdf/ec090020.pdf

...will see that the USA has had an 11-year unemployment problem, there was only a slight improvement during a USA housing bubble around the year 2006, but since that was extraordinary, it should be removed from that chart.

The USA has had an OVERSUPPLIED labor market for 20 of the last 22 years. If you need evidence of that SEE: http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/UNRATE and you will see only 2 times in 22 years when the USA was approaching a need for adding to the labor force, the other 20 years the USA had an oversupplied labor force.

The USA has 46,180,000 people living in poverty
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/pov/new46_100125_01.htm

~ The USA has more than 14 million people that are unemployed

~ The USA has some 3-5 million that are considered discouraged workers and are not counted in either the USA labor force or the USA unemployment total, it is because they could not get a job interview or job after trying for years.

~ The USA has some 10 million that are considered underemployed, meaning people with a Bachelor's degree or better, or decades of experience, holding a job that is considered unskilled, or minimum wage, when we have 10s of millions in the USA that needs those unskilled minimum wage jobs
05:27 AM on 10/06/2011
Okay, so I'm pretty disgusted with all the ignorant comments that are rationalizing disrespectful treatment of Mexican immigrants while displaying profound ignorance regarding U.S. immigration laws. Newsflash to all you "enlightened" closeted nativists: if today's laws existed ~100 years ago, most or all of those poor, unskilled European immigrants who came through Ellis Island and other ports of entry (i.e. YOUR ancestors) would've been considered illegal.

Would you like to know why. HERE'S an easy to follow chart of our current immigration laws. Read it and think about it the next time someone says that people should just "wait in line" or "play by the rules like my ancestors did":

http://reason.org/files/a87d1550853898a9b306ef458f116079.pdf

Btw, I'm still for enforcing our immigration laws, but I'm also for reforming them so that there are provisions that allow unskilled workers to come here LEGALLY to work. We already know that people are willing to come here illegally to work; why not create a mechanism that keeps them from slipping through the cracks and staying in the underground economy?
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HUFFPOST PUNDIT
IllTakeTheRedEye
Do you know what a nonemployer business is?
05:54 AM on 10/06/2011
OK I glanced at your cartoon flow chart, it is wrong already, here is why

This is for green card
"Unskilled Workers (Other Workers)"
"You must be capable, at the time the petition is filed on your behalf, of performing unskilled labor (requiring less than 2 years training or experience), that is not of a temporary or seasonal nature, for which qualified workers are not available in the United States."

"Labor certification and a permanent, full-time job offer required."
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=74da83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=74da83453d4a3210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

This is to work in the USA, without a green card, if you are unskilled

Low skilled
1) H-2A
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-2A_Visa
2) H-2b
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=d1d333e559274210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=d1d333e559274210VgnVCM100000082ca60aRCRD
3) H3
http://www.messersmithlaw.com/work-visa/h3-visa.html
06:03 AM on 10/06/2011
You didn't prove anything wrong. Read again. From YOUR post:

"You must be capable, at the time the petition is filed on your behalf, of performing unskilled labor (requiring less than 2 years training or experience­), that is not of a temporary or seasonal nature, for which qualified workers are not available in the United States."

"Labor certificat­ion and a permanent, full-time job offer required."

So how many of those poor, unskilled European immigrants arrived at Ellis Island with a full time job offer already in hand and the ability to perform a job for which there were no qualified Americans available? Yeah, I thought so.

And I'm aware of those other options (H2A and H2B), but they don't provide a path to a green card and permanent residency, which is why they were irrelevant for the comparison I was making.
12:12 PM on 10/07/2011
IllTakeTheRedEye
posted Oct 7, 2011 at 07:05:08

"NOPE. You do not get to control this exchange to suit your purpose. Your demands are not an argument, make arguments. Your opinion about facts, is just that, it is not an argument."

If nothing else, you're good for irony. So if my opinions aren't an argument, then you should easily be able to refute the following point for which I devoted 2 paragraphs and a link in my initial post:

if today's laws existed ~100 years ago, most or all of those poor, unskilled European immigrants who came through Ellis Island and other ports of entry (i.e. YOUR ancestors) would've been considered illegal.
*****
Refute it. Don't waste time with some explanation of America's demographic/population changes. Just refute it.

As for my REQUEST (there was no authoritative tone or sense of entitlement, so it's not a "demand") regarding immigration reform, it's acknowledgment that farmers and other employers of low skill jobs have a steep litmus test to pass prior to taking advantage of H-2As:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/05/us/farmers-strain-to-hire-american-workers-in-place-of-migrant-labor.html?_r=2&hp

“Farmers have to bear almost all the labor market risk because they must prove no one really was available, qualified or willing to work,” said Dawn D. Thilmany, a professor of agricultural economics at Colorado State University. “But the only way to offer proof is to literally have a field left unharvested.”
06:13 AM on 10/06/2011
So you are for wage suppression. Nice. You basically hate American workers and feel the job of the government is to regulate wages downward to the lowest wage on the planet.
05:07 AM on 10/06/2011
Great post.