James Zogby

James Zogby

Posted: April 23, 2008 03:53 PM

End It Now

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There is a bizarre, and even tragic, unreality to the continuing drama playing out in the Democratic primary. Partly due to the seven-week gap between the first 42 contests and this week's match-up in Pennsylvania, and partly due to the tenacity and temerity of the Clintons, this election is being presented as close and not yet over.

But it is over.

Dragging it out any longer only serves to indulge the Clintons' narcissism, while damaging the Democratic party's chances for victory in November. A few observations:

First: The numbers are clear: Clinton cannot surpass Obama's elected delegate total in the contests that remain. It is not unlike a fifty-two lap motor race. In the first forty-three laps, Obama has passed her twice, and built up a lead that is insurmountable. Now, in the midst of the 44th lap, it only appears to be close, but it is not. The only way she could possibly win is either by changing the rules of the game in Michigan and Florida, or convincing a substantial number of superdelegates to cast their ballots for her -- overturning the results of the elections to date. Either of these two scenarios would cause a devastating upheaval within the party, bringing on what I call a "1968 moment."

Second: There is no doubt that the Democratic base has been energized by this election. The record number of voters, volunteers, and contributors point to this fact. But, at the same time, it is important to acknowledge that real damage is occurring within the Democratic constituency. Polls that show a growing fracture within the Democratic coalition should be read as cautionary signs to be heeded. Those Beltway pundits and party regulars who say "Don't worry, after the convention, Democrats will come together" are out of touch with the real damage that has been done in the minds of voters on both sides of the divide.

Early on, Senator Obama spoke eloquently about the degree to which cynicism had infected our politics, resulting in voters no longer believing what politicians have to say. Only those who did not understand his message, or heed the lesson he sought to teach, can believe that Hillary and Bill Clinton will be easily able to undo the negativity they have created. Some voters will surely ask, "Were they lying then, or are they lying now?"

Third: There is no doubt that Senator Clinton is a talented and an extraordinarily intelligent person. Her tragic flaw is her belief that only she is capable of leading. It is this that has caused her to engage in an effort to demean her opponent and engage in the kind of campaign that she once decried as "the politics of personal destruction." It is this that I call her narcissism, and the degree to which it has damaged not only the Democratic chances in November, but also her reputation -- defines the pathological self-destruction that so often follows from narcissistic behavior

This has gone on too long, and should end now. Former President Clinton has argued that all the states should be given a chance to vote. They should have that chance. And, if this campaign were focused on issues and a debate over competing visions of leadership, I would say, "Let it continue."

But this has not been the case. Given the behavior of the Clinton campaign to date, and the expectation this behavior will continue, I believe that prolonging this agony will only create deeper division. For this reason, it should end now.

My fellow superdelegates should wait no longer. As party leaders, we are uniquely positioned, and have the responsibility, to speak out. Indecision only serves to enable bad behavior. It is time for us to either demand that the behavior change, or act to end this now.

Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to the Pennsylvania Primary results

 
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- swkidder I'm a Fan of swkidder 6 fans permalink

Great piece - spot on. I'm one of those cynical voters, and I'm sick and tired of the ugly spirit abroad in U.S. politics. Your solution is perfect - the Clinton campaign has 2 choices: either debate the issues or get out. But the mudslinging has to stop and most of the mud is coming from one direction and not the other. The problem for Hillary is that it's sticking to both campaigns.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:00 PM on 04/27/2008
- TOOO I'm a Fan of TOOO 11 fans permalink

I wouldn't count out Senator Clinton THAT quickly. Granted, many of us DON'T want her to win, but to say that she CAN'T or WON'T win is wishful thinking. We can't just brush off Pennsylvania as a fluke.

Personally, I think Senator Clinton has clearly discovered a tactic that works (at least in Pennsylvania), and will probably tailor it for the other states. She will make gains, but whether she can surpass Senator Obama remains to be seen.

I think it's going to be very close, and very messy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:18 AM on 04/27/2008

Exit polls didn't match vote count , _____; PA Secy of State on Karl Rove's speed dial, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/pennsylvania-primary-live_b_98088.html... no, I wouldn't brush PA off as a fluke.

Here's something interesting: I wanted to find a source that would give the actual numbers, exit vs Secy of State, to fill in the blank above. I didn't find it. Instead, I found exit polls that broke everybody down into demographics and percentages, but no simple Obama-Clinton vote total. But I find reports that exit polls in several states so far have differed significantly in Obama's favor from official results. And exit polls are considered so reliable, they're what was used (paid for by Bush) to get a new election in Ukraine.

So -- Is anybody looking at the exit polls and wondering what happened?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 03:59 PM on 04/27/2008

continued - drilling down

There is a exit poll pattern reported in March (http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/mysterypollster/2008/030708.htm) that stated of the contests thus far, exit poll vote totals favored Obama in significant error (or in significant contrast) to the final official results: "However, the larger errors consistently overstated Obama's support. Seven states showed errors in Obama's favor ranging between 7 and 17 points, and averaging 11 points. In four -- Arizona (+11), Massachusetts (+17), New Jersey (+10) and Rhode Island (+15) -- the error on the vote margin reached double digits." And of course there was New Hampshire, where pre-election and exit polls indicated an Obama win http://www.bradblog.com/?p=5535.

Having read RFK Jr's Rolling Stone expose of the 2004 election results (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen -- scroll down to I. Exit Polls), I don't assume the error is with the exit polls. "Over the past decades, exit polling has evolved into an exact science. Indeed, among pollsters and statisticians, such surveys are thought to be the most reliable. Unlike pre-election polls, in which voters are asked to predict their own behavior at some point in the future, exit polls ask voters leaving the voting booth to report an action they just executed. The results are exquisitely accurate... Such surveys are 'so reliable...that they are used as guides to the relative honesty of elections in Third World countries.'"

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 04:05 PM on 04/27/2008
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As usual Zogby is spot on...

However, I will go one step further and predict that Hillary will bribe enough Superdelegates and will ultimately secure the party nomination. Don't underestimate the Clintons' connections and political skills. Black voters will leave the Democratic party in droves, perhaps for good. The party will lose a HUGE portion of it's base.

Which leads us to te inevitable fact that McCain will indeed be the next President. I believe he will win even in the unlikely chance that Obama will get the nomination. There are still too many racists in this country and people are lying to pollsters about this fact.

Once again, the Democratic party screws things up... big time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:49 AM on 04/27/2008
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As usual Zogby is spot on...

However, I will go one step further and predict that Hillary will bribe enough Superdelegates and will ultimately secure the party nomination. Don't underestimate the Clintons' connections and political skills. Black voters will leave the Democratic party in droves, perhaps for good. The party will lose a HUGE portion of it's base.

Which leads us to te inevitable fact that McCain will indeed be the next President. I believe he will win even in the unlikely chance that Obama will get the nomination. There are still too many racists in this country and people are lying to pollsters about this fact.

Once again, the Democratic party screws things up... big time.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 05:00 AM on 04/27/2008
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this is the second article that I feel MSM need to take heed of and stop selling the American public short with their deceptive practice of painting a rosy picture of Hillary's chances, when mathematically it is not going to happen.

Thanks for an excellent article and don't let the supporters get you down! ;)

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 PM on 04/26/2008
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Excellent summation of the untenable situation currently plaguing the Democratic Party and the good people of this nation, thank you James Zogby!

This nation is in shock by what has gone on during the Bush administration's assault on the Constitution and common decency; the Clinton's seem to have no problem adding insult to that injury.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:54 PM on 04/26/2008
- Denni I'm a Fan of Denni 8 fans permalink

REASON! I love logical arguments, and thank you for stating the case so nicely. It's amazing that the narcissistic Clintons are DEPRIVING the down ticket candidates that money she's raising for a campaign she CAN'T win! Dems NEED to take more congressional seats. How many races could have been funded with the money Clinton is blowing!?!?!? They've always put themselves before the party, and nothing's changed this time around.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:12 PM on 04/26/2008

Your right nothing has changed in 28 years.

Reagan/Bush
Reagan/Bush
Bush
Clinton
Bush

and what a fine job they have done.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:46 PM on 04/26/2008

Outstanding blog, James! The Clinton family and their inner circle are corrupted and corrupting; they corrupt people, political parties, and election processes. A new kind of politician came on the scene that shows a lot of promise and is the exact opposite of what they have been practicing all their careers. They couldn’t let this happen and they managed to drag his reputation into the mud with them using old worn-out political chicanery that they're very familiar with.
I know I speak for more than myself here; if Hillary manages to take this nomination from Obama in Denver many of Obama supporters will vote for McCain. This is not a grudge vote, but Hillary is unacceptable to many of us no matter who the alternative is.
One small note to the Goobers of Ohio and Pennsylvania that voted for Hillary: Nations usually get the leaders they deserve. This nation put Bush / Cheney in the W/H twice, yes twice, when in both cases you had the opportunity to choose a much better leader. I fully expect this nation will get exactly what it deserves in November.
Time for old scar face.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:26 PM on 04/26/2008
- jrutle I'm a Fan of jrutle 36 fans permalink

I support Obama but believe these calls for Clinton to back out are wrong and anti-democratic. It makes him appear weak. This is a time where Obama needs to sharpen his counter-attacks on why he's a better candidate than either Clinton or McCain to win hearts and minds. Its also a time where, contrary to much popular opinion, Rev. Wright and his church need to be more fully exposed for who/what they represent. One sided fictions are being produced against Obama to destroy him and only he and those he's associated with can set the records straight. The 527 swift boaters are already alive and well. Its now time to find out if Obama has the mettle to destroy those who would destroy him. Too much is at stake in this election around the real issues of war and peace, the economy, and environment to allow the swift boaters air and turn November's election into a farce, which is the only way that McCain can win since he's on the wrong side of every major issue that matters to a strong majority of Americans. Obama should not dignify Clinton's petty attacks which attempt to bait him into making major campaign blunders, which is her only hope. However, he needs to decisively go on the attack to frame who he is and what he stands for.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 04/26/2008

I wish people would go pack in time and realize the truth re: racism, Michele Obama 1st introduced racism when she said wait until the black community wakes up and realizes he can be elected, that was said long before Bill Clinton said anything, and as far as Hillary's comment went re: MLK anyone with a brain in their heads knows no law can be passed without a presidents signature, so to us intelligent people all she was saying was like anyone else wanting a bill passed he was lucky that President LBJ was on his side. Racism is when Obama said we have antipathy for immigrants and people who don't look like us just who is us , does he mean white people the word antipathy means a hibitual repugnancy, aversion, habitural dislike, how the hell does he have a right to say that about white people, and Michele just now being proud of her country now that a black man is running, does that mean while the white people were Presidents not only was she not proud but ashamed, how can anyone out there who loves their country have a First Lady who is ashamed of her country represent America to the rest of the world, they all know what she said and will have no respect for her.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:45 PM on 04/26/2008
- Dustee I'm a Fan of Dustee 60 fans permalink
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***I wish people would go pack in time and realize the truth re: racism, Michele Obama 1st introduced racism when she said wait until the black community wakes up and realizes he can be elected,***

That's not true at all. Michele was responding to questions put to her by the MEDIA about why the black community were not at that time supporting Obama. That was seriously during the time the black community were asking themselves - "Was he black enough" to understand their plight!

So you see, THE MEDIA asked her a question. And she responded - "if they can see that he CAN win". There is NOTHING RACIST about responding to a question.

BTW: stop spinning what the Clinton/Republicans are telling you. And she NEVER said she was ashamed of her country.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 02:07 PM on 04/26/2008
- bryan0218 I'm a Fan of bryan0218 4 fans permalink

Dude, you sound like Sean Hannity. Stop repeating Fox's talking points and get out a little more.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:29 PM on 04/26/2008
- Dustee I'm a Fan of Dustee 60 fans permalink
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****Obama should not dignify Clinton's petty attacks which attempt to bait him into making major campaign blunders, which is her only hope. However, he needs to decisively go on the attack to frame who he is and what he stands for.****

Only thing is that initially Obama didn't TAKE the bait - they called him weak.

Damned if he does and Damned if he doesn't. But, Obama did say that the gloves will come off after the primary. That's what the Republicans are afraid of, and why they're trying to do everything they can to help support Hillary Republican Clinton!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:51 PM on 04/26/2008
- Denni I'm a Fan of Denni 8 fans permalink

Jrutle, big picture. The calls to drop out aren't about OBAMA, they're about the entire party. She continues to suck up financial resources for a nomination she can't win. How many congressional seats could be won, with that money? A person who put their party FIRST would have done the right thing. There's nothing 'democratic' or ethical about continuing to take money from a nation of people who are fighting against a tough economy, for the sake of one's own vanity.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:15 PM on 04/26/2008

The Clintons' lips were moving. They were lying then and lying now.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:07 AM on 04/26/2008

What was Clinton lying about that MLK was very luck to have LBJ support him for his push for Civil Rights, well don't be so dumb no one can ever have a law passed if the pres. doesn't want it to pass just look at all the vetoes Pres. Bush has signed, where dear God is the racism in this remark, the media is really reaching way back to state this and so to for the African American Community. What was Michele saying when she said she is just now proud of her country, I believe one can be ashamed of some things an administration can do but how can someone be ashamed of their country for better than 20yrs and yet expect to be First Lady.,now way no how, I want a First Lady that the rest of the world will respect ,

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:55 PM on 04/26/2008
- ByersL I'm a Fan of ByersL 37 fans permalink

Thank you, Mr. Zogby, for pointing out the most important issue: HIllary and Bill are running for his third term, and she actually believes she is the only one who can do the job. Her arrogance is astounding, to me, as a woman. I don't believe for a minute than any feminist would vote for McCain, who has a very conservative view of women, but they might stay home. That would be just as bad, and would be a sad commentary on their allegience to progressive causes. It can't be ANY woman, it needs to be the right woman. Unfortunately, Hillary just isn't the right woman.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:22 AM on 04/26/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 210 fans permalink
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I agree totally. If the Democratic Party allows this destructive narcissism to continue, we will all be worse off, including the stubborn and pathetic dupes who think that Hillary is the answer to the feminists' prayers. (If she were, would she have marginalized and demonized the young women half her husband's age that HE chose to mess around with)?

I wish that there were some bylaws in the Party's charter that would allow them to throw out people for bad behavior. (Maybe there are???). The Clintons are running (again) to get the endorsement of the party and not vice versa. I wish the party leaders would remember THAT. The Clintons have been so busy catering favor with Republicans, and my feeling is, "Hey, let the Republicans have them IF THEY WANT THEM. My feeling is that when they campaigned for McCain as the default choice if she is not nominated, they gave the party plenty of reason to pitch them out on their traitorous asses. Come to think of it, they gave them plent of reason years ago after they campaigned on a promise to oppose NAFTA, then--before the inaugural confettit was even out of their hair, they flacked it and rammed it through congress. (Why isn't big LABOR payinga attention to that.)?

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:08 PM on 04/26/2008
- saltpeter I'm a Fan of saltpeter 53 fans permalink

Seriously people, unless you live in Indiana, NC, or the handful of other states and US land holdings (ie Guam) that have yet to have their primaries, there's no sense in getting indignant about who you support. You already had your chance to make your stand. Just let the process do what it must. Robert Kennedy died on June 6 during an election after the California primaries and he still had not wrapped up the nomination. I only point this out to put it all in perspective. Don't let too much democracy get you down. It's a GOOD THING. The only ones who have a problem with it are impatient people who want everything to happen yesterday and pundits who are starting to look like even bigger fools than they already are because all the scenarios that they keep predicting aren't exactly happening the way they envisioned they would.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:44 AM on 04/26/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 210 fans permalink
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Don't forget, in 1968 we had a violent convention and still ended up nominating the pathetic (formerly admirable) old pol' who had sacrificed his integrity in order to support an immoral war (and, in doing so, we stomped on young people who were hoping for change). We all know (or ought to know) what happened in that election...we ended up giving Richard Nixon his first electoral victory.

Somehow, I am not convinced by your analogy.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 06:55 PM on 04/26/2008

Party, Party, Party, it's only what the party wants. Always. To heck with the voters.

Zogby Poll: They sent me one last year, wanting to know who I would vote for in the general with one or the other Dem candidate VS one or the other Rep candidate. Well, back then it was easy to choose -- definitely Democrat.

The media and the DNC have done themselves disservice by their divisive tactics for their own self-interests: $$$$$

It's not Wright's sermon, it's not an unworn Flag Pin, it's not how someone was raised. The focus has been on twisting the truth. These non-issues energize your followers baser natures on both the extreme right and the extreme left. That's Bad Behavior.

Zogby should re-poll, they would probably be shocked at my answer. I am, again, sitting right smack in the middle between the two extremes.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 01:56 AM on 04/26/2008
- kaygee I'm a Fan of kaygee 2 fans permalink

This statement calls into question the results of Zogby polling data which, if we remember, was so FAR from reality before the New Hampshire race. I live in France and when the Obama-like chicly dressed silver-tongued Sarkozy debated the female candidate just days before the final election, a VERY DAMAGING POLL said that Sarkozy had won the debate. After the election, the polling samples were found to be non-valid, but the damage was done. PUT A BIG QUESTION MARK ON ANY ZOGBY POLLS!

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:53 AM on 04/26/2008

Or does it call into question the election results that did not match exit polling? This is America, remember? Steal it at the polls, steal it at the courts.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:10 AM on 04/26/2008
- MATX I'm a Fan of MATX permalink

What can one say in response other than something to the effect of "typically elitist."

First, Senator Obama suggests anyone that doesn't see the world his way is "bitter."

Now, we have Zogby suggesting that people in the remaining states don't truly need to vote or have their opinion known, that Senator Clinton should just quit.

More troubling is the notion that he's a superdelegate, a nomenclature given to a class of delegate created especially to prevent a candidate like Obama, one who cannot possibly win in November, from becoming the nominee.

Not to worry.

There's a high probablility that I'll vote for McCain. With all sincerity and veracity I tell you that if I do, it will have as much to do with my dislike of superdelegates such as Mr. Zogby who don't seem to value the democratic process as it does with Obama himself.

It will have to do with the Democratic party's "simon didn't say" interpretation of Florida and Michigan's votes.

I don't particularly like the Republican party. The idea of voting for one has my head swimming but I simply can't tolerate what I see happening in the Democratic party. It's fundamentally dishonest .

Frankly, my extreme distaste for the far right wing of the Repubican party has been overshadowed by my revulsion and contempt for the Zogby-esque elitists of the Democratic Party along with its neofascist extreme left wing.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:51 AM on 04/26/2008
- ByersL I'm a Fan of ByersL 37 fans permalink

You were never voting democratic. paleeeeeze>

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 08:16 AM on 04/26/2008

MATX, you got the first thing wrong: "First, Senator Obama suggests anyone that doesn't see the world his way is 'bitter.'" That's not what he said and not what he was trying to convey before the MSM hijacked and morphed his statement beyond all recogniztion. Start with this first thing: We are all different, and no president is going to be the same as everybody. Obama has cared about everybody, and cared enough to try to empathize with them, to understand their problems and their strengths.

The media shame is that Obama did speak clearly. See elsewhere on HuffPo, David Coleman: I Was There: What Obama Really Said About Pennsylvania - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-coleman/i-was-there-what-obama-re_b_96553.html. See Cenk Uygur on The Young Turks, The Truth Behind Obama's Bitter Comment - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPBUJ91Ha48. The truth is out there.

This comment was left on Coleman's blog: "I'm from SW PA, and when I heard the sound bite from the Calif. fundraiser, my immediate reaction was 'What's all the fuss about? He's exactly right'... As I told my wife, 'Obama may actually care about us, if he's taking our story to contributors all the way across the country.' I actually felt as though we were suddenly noticed by someone in power. One can only hope...."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 11:21 AM on 04/26/2008
- dawlishgal I'm a Fan of dawlishgal 210 fans permalink
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Gawd...will the hyperbolists never stop putting words in people's mouths in order to spin things their way. All Obama was saying is that people in PA and elsewhere are finding distractions from their feelings of hopelessness, distractions that--in the long run--do nothing to solve the basic problems of unemployment, lack of decent healthcare, stuff like that that elitists like the REAL elistists, the NAFTA-pushing, Renaissance Weekend-attending Clintons will NEVER understand, but that somebody who worked in the trenches with the disemployed is perfectly familiar with.

Hell, the Clintons have been NOWHERE to be seen in the Mon valley while the steel towns began to crumble, and their pushing of NAFTA was the last nail in the coffin of what used to be a secure and honorable and productive way of life. The only time they appear on the scene is when they want our votes.

That Huffington post allowed one of its employees send a spy to Obama fund raisers and then to allow her to to take Obama's words out of context and to spin them into an issue is shameful..

That "on the bus" column ought to be called "Under the bus."

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 07:14 PM on 04/26/2008
- provgrays I'm a Fan of provgrays 29 fans permalink

This is the most clear eyed post I have read yet on this sadistic Democratic primary. A narcissist doesn't care who or what is damaged as a result of their self worship. To them, others don't really exist anyway.

    Favorite    Flag as abusive Posted 12:32 AM on 04/26/2008
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