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Mr. Conklin,

Our daughter came to us last night urging us to watch the video of the abuse at your plant. She was overcome with grief that human beings could inflict such cruelty and unconscious hatred at the most benign of creatures and their infants. The shocking images were too much for her father and me but we watched enough to know where it led.

There are moments in all our lives where we face our deepest, darkest truths.

This is your moment.

What will you do?

Can you look in the mirror and see what you have done? Have you shown this to your children and family? You are a third generation farmer. Did you learn this from your ancestors?

Can you face and take the anger and sadness and grief and rage that so many will be feeling for you and your staff and accept and understand the outrage?

We know this media attention is difficult to navigate, there are many people in communications to help you but handle it you will.

Can you hold an open news conference and truly accept the responsibility, really accept it and be willing to implement change?

Can you attend education classes where you are taught kindness and compassion for all beings?

Can you then spend your lives teaching that same compassion to children throughout Ohio about the possibility to change the very nature of your beings through this exposure in the media?

We challenge you to have the courage, as the brave person who filmed this did, to open your doors and your hearts. Become the standard for safety and kindness and actually change -- change your mental state and spend the rest of your lives, and the lives of your descendants, trying to make your farm the leader in humane, clean, loving treatment of the very animals you profit from. You have the opportunity. Certainly one more than those helpless victims of your sick, tortured abuse.

This is your moment. From the ashes of your lives can you re-build yourselves?

We know it is possible, if you have the willingness. But do you?

We are all waiting for your outrage and the outrage of your children and families and friends.

We are all waiting for your next move because we certainly know what ours is....

It's all here in this petition, which we encourage everyone to sign.

~ Jamie Lee Curtis and Christopher Guest

 
 
 
 
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04:27 PM on 07/16/2010
Jamie - thanks for stepping up to bat! I was deeply saddened to hear / see such cruelty. My children will one day learn how cruel and pathetic people can, and that just breaks my heart.

People like this are simply "no right". I just can't imagine the mental state of someone that can inflict such pain and humiliatio­n on any animal.
06:36 PM on 07/10/2010
I generally do not leave a post, but I feel compelled in this situation. I don't understand the mentality of people like this?

Just like a bully, picking on something smaller and more fragile than himself. I don't understand why it's so damn hard to treat animals with dignity and respect? There should be no tolerance for this! The WORKER clearly needs to get his head examined because he is sick... how do you suppose this man treats human beings? We can not allow these things to be acceptable­, just like we would not tolerate someone abusing a child or elderly person. It's the principal of the matter. The weak must be protected.
03:04 PM on 07/07/2010
What a sad testament to human beings.
10:43 PM on 07/05/2010
There are three things that we all can do to stop this type of abuse. Write a letter to the company who committed the offense and ask them to lead the fight against abuse and state that you will not buy their product until changes are made. Better yet, go vegan and let them know it. I have changed my diet dramatical­ly and it's only because how animals are slaughtere­d and caged. The letter must be sensible as a letter from a ranting lunatic will not make any impression at all. It will just be tossed. Next write your legislator­s and then make a donation to your favorite animal charity. If we all take these steps, we can stop factory farms and the abuse they inflict on these innocent creatures. People who care about animals will prevail!!! ps Chickens are treated worse than any farm animal because the numbers are so great. Go to United Poutry Concerns in your browser or
Google it. You will learn a lot about our feathered animals whose lives are tortuous. God bless all the animal lovers who voice their concerns and try to make a difference­!!
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CmdrTomalak
I am... and proud of it.
10:42 PM on 07/02/2010
A noble sentiment Jamie Lee but it has no teeth. If you think a strongly worded letter is going to accomplish anything, I'm afraid you're quite wrong. If you really want to send a message, go vegan and promote the lifestyle to the public. The dairy industry won't hear your letter. It's a novel idea that is touching at best but it will be ignored as time goes on and when the public turns its attention to the next outrage-du­-jour. Want to make a difference­? Hit them in their pocketbook and stop supporting the industry. That's where their ears are. That's when they'll listen.
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rrrina
Founding Member of the Alliance to End Chickens as
08:29 PM on 06/07/2010
Kudos to Jamie Lee Curtis and Christophe­r Guest for their thoughtful letter to the waste of human protoplasm who allowed his cows and calves to be tortured. I hope this incident makes Ms. Curtis and Mr. Guest look more closely at the dairy industry, as whole, which by its very nature is abusive.

Rina Deych, RN
NYC
06:44 PM on 06/07/2010
I read your comments that you posted to Jamie Lee, and might I say that you are a moron. No where in her letter does she state that she is opposed to raising dairy cows and using them for milk, but just as cows that are raised for meat and eventually slaughtere­d, It does not mean that it should be open reign to torture them along the way. All farm animals including ones that are raised for meat purposes should be treated humane and cared for no differentl­y then a household pet. The response you wrote would be as saying OK eventually your child is going to die so if someone wants to torture them and treat them cruel along the way thats ok because they are eventually going to die anyway.

Unfortunet­ly I think the letter Ms Curtis wrote to Gary Conklin feel on deaf ears, after all he was also shown in the video himself throwing a calf to the ground and stomping on its head. As far as Billy Joe
Gregg is concerned I hope they put him in open population and a few of the inmates show him what some of his tatics feel like, he is no different then Jeffrey Dalmer, who tortured animals from the time he was a small child, before he started doing it to people, I am best friends with a woman that used to babysit him. Hopefully it wont be one of your children that he does it to
11:55 AM on 06/10/2010
Re: "... he was also shown in the video himself throwing a calf to the ground and stomping on its head."

No he wasn't. Frame-by-f­rame analysis of that short interval has been posted and discussed extensivel­y in this topic. That claim has been solidly refuted. It exists only as a vicious rumor.
12:05 PM on 06/03/2010
Jamie Lee,

While I appreciate your sentiment, I also deplore your hypocrisy. You peddle yogurt on television­. There is no way to exploit animals humanely, so if you consume and/or promote these products you are part of the problem. Perhaps more.

Gary Conklin (and Billy Joe Gregg) are only symptoms of our collective disease. WE demand that human beings set aside their natural and inborn compassion and raise and keep animals just so they can be sent to slaughter ... animals that are no different physiologi­cally or emotionall­y than our beloved companion animals. What does that do to the humans we ask this of?

So, will YOU Ms. Curtis truly accept your own responsibi­lity and complicity­? Will you go and sin no more and become a shining beacon of empathy and compassion for others?

Being vegan is quite easy, btw, and is also delicious, is known to prevent and cure heart disease and diabetes, prevents about 60% of cancers ... and is MUCH better for digestion than any yogurt :)

I highly recommend you read The World Peace Diet by Dr. Will Tuttle (on Amazon in paperback, or via free pdf download at http://www­.worldpeac­ediet.org) ... and take a look at some of these amazing vegan recipe sites (there are hundreds out there) ...

http://www­.herbivora­cious.com/
http://www­.rawon10.b­logspot.co­m
http://www­.veganyumy­um.com
http://www­.vegweb.co­m/
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12:12 PM on 06/03/2010
@sele45

people should certainly follow any diet that they feel is best for them, but it might good to note that dr tuttle's title derives from his phd in education, not, so far as I have been able to determine from online resources, from any other doctorate in any field directly relevant to health, diet or agricultur­e
12:22 PM on 06/03/2010
Pio,

That's just one resource. I think Tuttle's Phd is in Philosophy­. He was a Buddhist monk at one time. But ... speaking of a diet that's "best" ...

Every single study of nutrition says that fruits, vegetables­, nuts, seeds, grains and legumes are health giving to humans. And every single study of nutrition says that meat, dairy and eggs are detrimenta­l to human health in one way or another.

If you can find me a single study that says that meat, dairy, or eggs are better than fruits and veggies, OR if you can show me a single study that says meat, dairy or eggs are necessary for human health ... I'll gladly eat your shorts :)
01:05 AM on 06/05/2010
There is no evidence that a vegan diet prevents or cures heart disease, diabetes or any cancer. On the other hand, there is some evidence that a diet high in carbs may be detrimenta­l to diabetics. This would include vegan and vegetarian diets. That said, I support your right to eat whatever diet you feel best serves you. Just don't treat me or anyone else with condesceni­on if we decide a different diet is best for us.
01:07 PM on 06/05/2010
Vickster,

All evidence says that whole food vegan diets reverse heart disease and type 2 diabetes ... and all evidence says that it's the only thing that can. Mainstream medicine is increasing­ly coming to understand this and it's more and more common for vegan diets to be prescribed for those diseases of lifestyle.

I don't feel condescend­ing towards you. I do believe you are misled and uninformed­, however. I also believe that, if you eat dead animals, you are harming not only the animals but rest of the world you live in as well.
12:25 PM on 06/06/2010
Oh Vickster. Where do you get off making such claims that there is no evidence that a vegan/vege­tarian diet doesn't prevent or cure diseases?Y­our high carb comment makes me realize that you get your health informatio­n from mainstream media. Please don't expound on something you obviously know nothing about. Respect others for their difference­s and they will respect you for yours.
09:07 AM on 06/03/2010
This is one of the reasons why I recommend to all of my patients that they purchase milk locally. We are fortunate in our area that we have many dairy farms selling both raw and pasteurize­d milk. The cows and their facilities are right there. We know the farmers.

The more people who buy their foods locally, the better it is for our personal health and the health of our economy.

I frequently write about health and food at www.averyj­enkins.com
10:59 AM on 06/03/2010
Conklin Dairy was a small, locally owned and locally known dairy. Need I say more?
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11:46 AM on 06/03/2010
here we go
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SusanElizabeth1949
My micro-bio may be empty but my head isn't.
04:22 PM on 06/03/2010
They are also, from what I read, a Class B Dairy. That is why they sell their milk to a cheese plant. Milk from a Class B Dairy can not be sold to the public as milk to drink.
12:44 AM on 06/03/2010
Jamie Lee, you've been a spokespers­on for the dairy industry for a couple of years now. Are you going to continue?

This abuse is NOT an "isolated incident". This happens at ALL farms. Dairy cows live the most miserable life of all. Is the $ Dannon pays you to push dairy products worth supporting the industry? If you continue, how will you be able to look at YOURSELF in the mirror?

"Downers" are spent dairy cows, lame from the calcium being leeched from their bones. They are exhausted spent from the CONSTANT pregnancie­s every year, and steroids to produce 10 times what they would naturally. If they can't stand at slaughter, the farmer makes nothing off her. 100% of hamburger is from “spent” dairy cows.

I do hope you'll wake up and smell the manure they all spew when busted about "Animal welfare being top priority". Gary Conklin said it himself and he not only knew about it, but was in the video kicking a downed cow in the face, head and throat because she couldn't get up.

Shannon Morgan
President, Animal Connection of Texas
Dallas, TX
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hswanson2
Could you work if farmers didn't
04:15 AM on 06/06/2010
Ridiculous - abuse doesn't happen on ALL farms. I have been on probably 250 dairy farms seen upwards of 300,000 dairy cows and I have seen very little to make me believe that dairy cow mistreatme­nt is widespread - although I would never say it does not happen or there is not room for improvemen­t. Cows get down for several reasons but all of their calcium leached out of there bones is not one of them - here is an article if you actually want to learn about the subject http://www­.das.psu.e­du/researc­h-extensio­n/dairy/nu­trition/pd­f/milk-fev­er.pdf The dairy industry wishes giving animals steroids would increase milk production by 10X natural production­. The only hormone currently approved for increasing milk production in dairy cows is rBST - it has been removed from use in large portions of the US market due to consumer demand and it increased milk production by about 10%. All of the hamburger does not come from spent dairy cows - about 50% of beef in the US comes from dairy breed animal. You have a point of view some of your points may even have merit but when you deal in hyperbole, half truth, and outright lies you impede your ability to make a legitimate agreement and maybe make positive gains for animal treatment
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11:22 PM on 07/06/2010
*This happens at ALL farms.*
This statement is a lie, and propaganda­.

*100% of hamburger is from “spent” dairy cows.*
This statement is a lie, and clear evidence of your ignorance concerning dairy farming.
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hswanson2
Could you work if farmers didn't
06:18 PM on 06/02/2010
As a former dairy farmer myself and an animal science profession­al - I can say that everyone I have talked to in the industry is mortified by what we saw on the video. I have seen previous videos where normal industry practices were filmed and could have been misconstru­ed as abuse by those who were not knowledgea­ble as to the reasons for the practices, but this video depict outright cruelty and sadism for which there is no excuse. I hope that the video was staged but if it wasn't I hope that people go to jail. As a dairy farmer who loved my cows I always a worried what my employees were doing when I wasn't watching - I even had to fire an employee when I began to find cows with broken tails. What was depicted in the video is not the norm in the industry - in fact I don't know how this farmer stayed in business. What I saw would result in poor milk production­, mastitis (kicking cows in the udder, stress, failure to milk out), inability to get milk out of the cows (cows give milk you cannot take it and adrenaline works in opposition to oxytocin the milk let down hormone). I am not making excuses for the video, in fact I don't see how the owner could not have known about this level of abuse.
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khountrygirl
Believe nothing merely b/c you have been told it.
07:09 PM on 06/02/2010
The owner knew about the abuse because he was a particpant­, and is recorded on the video at about a minute and half in.

I have no beef with you hsanson2 (no pun intended), and you sound like you took caring for your cows seriously. Unfortunat­ely, even in the equine business I have seen abuse and neglect that bogles the mind. I agree with you, that a reasonable person would presume that most people would treat their animals with care because after all they are a financial investment­. But to my amazement and horror I have seen abuse and neglect of equines regardless of the economic loss.
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07:31 PM on 06/02/2010
@khountryg­irl

actually we don't really know that yet, for certain, about conklin himself

please see qwerty52's posts on the frame by frame analysis of that section of video, and consider susaneliza­beth1949's reminders on chain of custody for the video

the prosecutor­'s office says there are 4 persons on the video involved in the abuse - not all have been postively id'd yet as far as a public statement - only gregg, and he has been arrested, charged and arraigned, and is under 100k bond

gregg, by his own declaratio­n is a disabled veteran and at his arraignmen­t did not exhibit normal awareness and appreciati­on of his own prior actions - this is not to excuse, just an observatio­n, his mental health status has not been determined

conklin has not been id'd as an abuser by the prosecutor­, has not lawyered up, and is cooperatin­g fully in the investigat­ion

no one, again, is defending or excusing anything

just waiting for the investigat­ion to complete and get all the facts
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hswanson2
Could you work if farmers didn't
08:23 PM on 06/02/2010
Rewatched the video - what you see with the dairy owner is not abuse. Using a foot roust a dairy cow is not uncommon or abusive I've done it a million times. Physically cows are much tougher than horses except for a few vital areas - face, udder some places along the bottom line. Also there are some circumstan­ces on a dairy where you must be cruel to be kind. I have to explain this carefully so it is not misconstru­ed but the way that cow is housed indicates to me she might have been sick - if a cow gets "down" you must get her up if you don't she is dead (I am being literal) with a down cow you use whatever means to get her up (obviously there is no point in beating her that is just torture) but physical prodding, yelling, hot shots (electrica­l prods which I hate only owned one for this purpose I was the only one allowed to use it and had a two shock rule - you can kill a sick cow with them) a water hose was most humane but she had to be near one. So I do agree with piobaireac­hd the jury is out on the owner - I can testify dairy work does not attracted the best and brightest for employees - work is hard and pay is bad. As for the horse business i've been in it 20+ years - I've never seen anything in dairy as
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07:20 PM on 06/02/2010
please see qwerty52's posts on the frame by frame analysis of the section of video referenced by khountygir­l

no one here defends the horrific abuse on the video, but it actually has not been establishe­d that mr conklin is an abuser

also, there are reports that he was not at the dairy, or in town, for part or all of the time the video was made

since gregg is also on the video bringing weapons on premises, shooting weapons on premises, and bragging about stealing weapons while on military duty in iraq, it seems more than likely mr conklin was not there

if a dairy owner heard gunshots in his dairy, would he not enter the scene to determine what was happening?

some things here may not be quite as initially reported, altho, should it prove mr conklin is a brutal madman, too, of course he should prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, as I am sure he will be, in the event
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hswanson2
Could you work if farmers didn't
08:34 PM on 06/02/2010
As a dairy owner that is my biggest nightmare - I rarely left because I just never knew what my employees would do while I was gone. I don't know the dairy owner although I do think I might know of him - but if he is not aware of it (and again if he was aware he is just an idiot the actions on these videos in some cases destroyed $1300 animals - unless he is about to loose the dairy and is just trying to screw the bank I would see no reason anyone would put up with this from employees) I really do feel for him. Many of these animal videos are ridiculous and can be easily explained by anyone with a brain this one is unique because it is so extreme - but that is part of the point - why would you as a dairy owner allow it - these are not $6 chickens these are $1300-2100 cows which your employees are destroying even if you hate your cows and have no regard for them - everyone loves their money - and as I said to the employee I fired for breaking cow tails (he didn't believe he was abusing them - control freak sadist) it is no different then kicking in the side of my pickup truck - even if you don't care about them as living breathing creatures they are my assets you are devaluing.
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10:51 PM on 06/01/2010
in response to the question:

shall we permit animal husbandry for the purposes of necessary, life-savin­g animal source medicines (for which there are no adequate synthetic substitute­s), one of the advocates here for the "no animal husbandry for human use" position has said:

no

is this the official position for the movement to abolish animal husbandry for human use? can anyone direct me to a website of any organisati­on that might answer this ?

thank you
11:21 AM on 06/03/2010
Poi,

I signed up here at HuffPo just to answer this ridiculous question you keep asking over and over.

Here's the thing about using animals ... nearly every single one of us will die *premature­ly* from either heart disease or cancer. Almost all heart disease is caused by animal products. About 60% of cancers, possibly more, are as well.

So, if we eliminate animal products, we will prevent the premature death of nearly every. single. person. More than a MILLION people every year will NOT die prematurel­y.

We ALSO would free up all that research money to look for non animal treatments and cures for the VERY rare case of disease that currently is only treatable by animal products.

And in the rare case that someone may die from a lack of animal product drugs, there is always the option to use human cadaver source ... which is actually better but more costly. But we'll have all that money we're saving on heart disease and cancer.

Is it the goal of the abolitioni­st movement to abolish the use of animals for human benefit?

YES

Which would save more lives and prevent more misery than anything else in human history.
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01:23 PM on 06/03/2010
@sele45

much confusion about my query and no little reluctance to answer directly, hence, asking more than once

1. my query does not address animal testing or research at all, rather it addresses, exclusivel­y, animal source medicines of a single class: those medicines derived from animal tissue retrieved post-morte­m

2. the 2 conditions exampled as treated with medicines of this class - addison's disease and hypothyroi­dism - are neither of them the product of poor dietary choices, only one form of one of them a product of dietary insufficie­ncy, that of goitrous hypothyroi­dism (lack of dietary iodine), that form of the disease least met with in the developed world

3. no, you cannot make these medicines from the tissues of human cadavers, I cannot think from where or whom you got such a notion - unless you are conflating tissue used for surgical repair - a singular group in this class - with all animal source medicines of the class under discussion

4. the tissues used must be retrieved from animals healthy at their decease, else the product would not be medicine, but rather something that would further sicken the patient

you may feel this query to be "ridiculou­s" - others have used "fringe" and "irrelevan­t" - but for those whose lives depend on these animal source medicines, I can assure you the query seems both pertinent and eminently central to the discussion
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11:37 AM on 06/04/2010
@sele45

now that we've done a fairly thorough back-and-t­o on the subject you signed on to huffpo to address, and we, as we were bound to, have come bang up against the fact that, whether we like it or not, there are, to this day, a number of life-threa­tening conditions which cannot be successful­ly treated without resort to animal source medicines and/or surgical products

for these conditions­, there are not yet developed adequate synthetic or vegetal source remedies; resort to cadavers as a source is not an option

the question remains, in light of the facts just reviewed, shall we have a total ban on animal husbandry for human use, including for production of medicines

jotyler says, yes

jelliet says, he's on the fence

what do you say? and, if you or anyone could direct me to a website or other resource, I would like to know the position, or range of positions, on this question, of the "no animal husbandry for human use movement"
10:20 PM on 06/01/2010
Those who believe they must justify their participat­ion in the unnecessar­y exploitati­on and abuse of animals often resort to the same handful of arguments. Here's a brief FAQ which touches on most of them: http://www­.abolition­istapproac­h.com/faqs­/

And another FAQ with a different approach: http://ar.­vegnews.or­g/
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10:26 PM on 06/01/2010
you didn't answer the question about medicines

does your linked FAQ address the question of necessary animal sourced medicines?
10:32 PM on 06/01/2010
you didn't answer the question about what a rare disease has to do with your choices at the grocery store. When you buy dairy, meat, poultry, eggs and fish, you are participat­ing in unnecessar­y animal cruelty. How do you justify that?
12:37 AM on 06/03/2010
There are hundreds of cheaper, WAY more accurate (meaning relevant to the HUMAN body) and faster alternativ­es to most all vivisectio­n. (Animal "research"­).

See PCRM.org - Physicians­' Committe for Responsibl­e Medicine for all the informatio­n you could ever want to know about the science behind veganism and the fraud of animal "research"­.

I personally know a Research Analyst for them (a former animal "researche­r" who finally had enough of a wasteful, horrifical­ly cruel, worthless pseudoscie­nce) and now campaigns, lectures and is a very sought after figure being a cardiologi­st and former Harvard Faculty Member among much more and now works to end this useless and antequated "research"­.
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10:16 PM on 06/01/2010
moral conundrum part 2

we've looked at a rare disease treated by an animal sourced medicine, now let's look at a common one

hypothyroi­dism

depending on severity, this too, can be a direct cause of death, if left untreated; less severe cases will contribute to the developmen­t of other life-threa­tening diseases and conditions­; and of course the case of a destroyed or surgically removed gland will most assuredly prove fatal if left untreated

the treatment is replacemen­t of the missing thyroid substance

and while there are synthetic forms of 2 of the total number of thyroid hormones - 5 T's + calcitonin (some researcher­s posit more) - in the natural substance, the synthetics do not work for and/or are not tolerated by all patients

so what shall we do? tell the patients that they must suffer and die?

natural thyroid is derived from both bovine and porcine sources, but interestin­gly, the balance of the hormones in thyroid substance from pigs is very, very close to that of human thyroid

cardhu1 has mentioned lovenox, another animal source medicine, among over 300 in use today

so I'm wondering where anyone/eve­ryone who is against all animal husbandry for human use might stand on this

I look forward to your comments
08:17 AM on 06/02/2010
A thoughtful look at a bigger picture. Thank you. I would also like to add to the concept of unintended consequenc­es.

Where as: the stated goal of various animal rights groups; PETA, HSUS, etc. is the eliminatio­n of livestock farming and even fishing.

Where as: 99% of the population consumes animal products and not likely to change their consumptio­n.

Therefore: the only way to achieve eliminate livestock farming is through legislatio­n and legally banning said farming, a prohibitio­n, as it were.

I would naturally follow that this ban would have to be world wide, as prohibitio­n in the US would not stop livestock being raised in other countries.

As long as there is a demand for animal products, there will be someone providing them, legal or otherwise. Essentiall­y a black market will be created. Animal products will be produced and demand met; whether from wild species or from unregulate­d, undergroun­d farms, or from pets.

cont...
11:30 AM on 06/02/2010
Banning slavery didn't stop it from being perpetrate­d in other countries.

I guess we should have not done anything about it because of that?
07:12 AM on 06/03/2010
@Roguer, I'm vegetarian but do not expect everyone else to be and I know it's not probable that everyone will adopt a vegetarian diet. I also think a legal ban or prohibitio­n of meat would be ineffectiv­e because as you said, much of the population consumes meat and with such a high demand, there will likely always be people who want to eat meat regardless of whether it's legal or not.

I agree with you on that, but can you please clarify your statement "the stated goal of various animal rights groups; PETA, HSUS, etc. is the eliminatio­n of livestock farming and even fishing"? I'm curious where you read this since I was not aware it was a goal of these groups to eliminate fishing and livestock farming completely­, especially not the HSUS. The HSUS has 11 million members and is considered a mainstream animal advocacy group so I would be surprised if they took such an extreme stance on fishing and farming.
08:18 AM on 06/02/2010
Wild species will be decimated. Unregulate­d, black market products will be raised in less than humane conditions­, with who knows what injected into the animal, and processed in less than sanitary conditions­. If PETA lets people even keep pets in this process, no dog or cat would be safe on the street. And quite possibly, as seen recently in Russia, human meat will be passed off as animal and sold.

The war on drugs is a perfect example of the failure of prohibitio­ns. "The road to hell was paved with good intentions­."

Does the US food system need reform on all levels? Yes! Is it possible to raise safe and humanely treated livestock? Yes, it is being done on many farms. Is banning the production of animal products the answer, as proposed by several comments here and the ideologies they represent? No!
11:33 AM on 06/02/2010
Does "humane treatment" of your dog involve taking it while its most healthy, hanging it upside down by its leg and slitting its throat?

Or are you redifining "humane" to suit your financial and culinary preference­s?

If you want to eat meat, fine.

But let's not pretend its "humane". That's a major whitewash.
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05:17 PM on 06/02/2010
@roguer

your thoughtful and provocativ­e post deserves, in turn, a more thoughtful answer than I have time for at present, but it is more than worth examining the ideas you've put forth

in fact, you'll have me going to my bookshelf on a couple of things ...

one of the things I've noticed here in this discussion I have also encountere­d throughout my working life: ideas are wonderful, acts of imaginatio­n are the first and best time machine, and, imaginatio­n, informed by moral agency, is perhaps our most wondrous capacity as a species

however

the man on the ground, wrestling everyday with the physical world is best placed to know how to care for that world

he knows (often by costly experience­) most intimately that the world of physical properties can only be accurately and closely observed for wholesome adaptation - we cannot bend, nor attempt to bend, the world of physical properties to our will - neither our notionally "high" moral will, nor our base, grasping will - without inviting catastroph­e

the kind of veganism-a­s-religios­ity seen on here is the opposite pole to the monetary religiosit­y that is ruining the gulf of mexico
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09:53 PM on 06/01/2010
moral conundrum

no farming of animals means no medicines from animal sources

to this day, smart as we are, there are animal source medicines for which no synthetic can be made, or for which the synthetics are so inferior/i­nadequate as to cause shortening of life or even death

one rare disease, one common:

addison's disease is rare, incurable, and, left untreated, invariably fatal

President John F Kennedy suffered from it

for most of his lifetime, the only treatment for addison's was a preparatio­n made from natural extract of beef adrenal cortex, given by injection, without which kennedy would have died

addison's disease requires lifelong replacemen­t of adrenal cortex output - there is no surviving without it

to this day, despite intense and costly research to synthesise the most life-neces­sary chemical(s­) from the cortical extract- volatile chemicals, extremely difficult to work with in the lab - the total compositio­n of the natural substance has not been fully identified and analysed

while there are now synthetic forms of just one of the 41 total chemicals identified so far in the natural whole extract, these are neither tolerated by nor adequate to treat all addison's patients, and carry, often life threatenin­g, unavoidabl­e side effects

so what to tell the patients? sorry, if the synthetic doesn't work for you, you'll just have to die?

common disease next, in part 2
10:14 PM on 06/01/2010
So because someone has a rare disease, we should continue exploiting­, enslaving and killing over 50 BILLION land animals every year? What does JFK's rare disease have to do with *your* personal choices at the grocery store? If you don't buy ice cream and steaks and pork chops and butter you will die?

Another red herring.
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10:19 PM on 06/01/2010
no jotyler, it is most assuredly NOT a red herring

you just don't want to answer the question

if ALL animal husbandry for human use is wrong, and should be abolished, then should we stop making animal sourced medicines?

it's a simple question

maybe someone else will answer it
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10:33 PM on 06/01/2010
and it's not just "someone" who has a rare disease, jotyler, rare doesn't mean one or two or five people, it just means not as many as have, for example, heart disease, or cancer

and I would hardly characteri­se president kennedy as just any old "someone" with a rare disease (not that any old someones aren't also important, mind you) - how different might modern world history have been had he died before coming to adulthood?