Every Sunday and most Thursdays we go to church for a service or choir practice or some other activity. One could assume my churchy children know what it means to sin or who the devil is ... the Devil. Nope. Not here. Not on this church's watch, as I've recently discovered.
This religious ignorance all came to light when my daughter chose an angel/devil-girl costume for Halloween. (Ironically, she won the Most Original award at the church party.) So, who is this devil, she wondered? My other daughter jumped hysterically. "I know, I know!! A devil is the guy in the red holding that pointy thing! Right?" Cue husband quietly, yet cheerfully, humming Charlie Daniels in the background.
And sin? "It's something you do to go to heaven." I shrink in my Sunday best. All those Sunday mornings racing through breakfast and getting out the door instead of brunching, sleeping, hiking. And for what? My children don't even know the Devil, supposedly, lives in hell, and you'll go there, supposedly, if you sin. I wonder if our post-modern, neo-Christian, progressive church is shortchanging the Christian religion. Is this cause for a sit-down with the pastor, a committee, national church leadership? If they're not learning about sins and the Devil, it was certainly time to discover what the heck is going on in those Sunday school classes and activities.
I'm first challenged by my eldest: "I've been waiting so long for this Bible study! I mean, how do we know this stuff is the truth?" No one can argue that fostering intellectual inquiry about the history and true meaning of religion isn't worthwhile. (I do, however, question my sanity in giving her the opportunity to question truthfulness: isn't this a pre-cursor to questioning authority?)
They've certainly taken to heart the church's lessons about love. Jesus loved everybody, so it's OK to love Gracie K. (Only an older sister can sanction, with help from our Savior, a younger brother's crush.) Love's counterpart, compassion, is always practiced and respected at our church so they can't help but take notice. It's not that we don't practice compassion in our home, but, well, come on: It just works better at church. My daughter's favorite part of Vacation Bible School is assembling the food bags and making blankets for the homeless. There could be worse favorite activities.
By all accounts, it's good for them to be part of a small community especially living in a large, fragmented city. On more than one occasion, my daughter has remarked, "Church is kinda like a different home." They can easily qualify, quantify and give voice to another type of family, one that links all age and socio-economic groups from infants to seniors -- a difficult group to amass in a large urban city. There is a certain, special comfort in belonging to such an extended family.
My kids can't seem to tolerate each other at home, but they know the church doors are open to every single person. Period. It's not simply a message of acceptance, but one of diversity. The homeless are not judged except when it comes to the last cookie. But even then, "He needs it more than me." They are consistently challenged by the diverse view, both literally and figuratively, at church; one that they are not exposed to even at their public school.
And if I had to choose between them learning about the devil and sin or being filled with hope, why not the latter? "I know everything is going to be alright." The selfish part of me wants to believe that parents are the first and best conveyor of this important message, but I threaten too much. So their sense of undying hope in the world and themselves is the sweet mixture of innocence and their church experience: Dare I say their religion? No, probably not. Religion is too broad, too bantered, too castigated, too used and too important to try and unravel for them. It's simply church -- the building, the people, the activities, the message. This message, at what I believe is a critical time in their spiritual development, turns out to be a pretty positive one.
So, I guess I can parent without the Devil and sin in my back pocket, which is probably good because I certainly don't live with them there. I'll continue to herd them into the minivan every Sunday morning and Thursday evening for a good dose of intellectual inquiry, love, compassion, diversity, tolerance and hope. And I'm sure one day we'll pass, moving in the opposite direction, the Devil and sin.
‎(nutshell, sin, yes; devil, not so much... though perhaps as a part of history of symbols of the faith)
Find out a bit more about Fra Savanarola, during the Renaissance, and his destructive crusade to wipe out all art and culture he deemed unsuitable for "the good of the Catholic soul". We probably have lost many masterpieces we will never see. Some, from DaVinci, Michelangelo, etc. fortunately were spared, as far as we know, somehow. Perhaps, because they were such producers of RELIGIOUS art as well as non-religious.
Learn about how coercive, violent and merciless the early church was, in order to quash any dissension, and how your OT and NT really came to be. Learn about the legends and myths that preceded the inception of those same volumes. Then we'll talk. When you know the TRUTH, "THE TRUTH, INDEED WILL SET YOU FREE"
Just to not be sexist, some of them are woman-made ways.
Was anyone claiming this? I actually agree with you; faith is not a substitute for truth, and truth is not a substitute for faith. That is why these two words exist, they describe very different things.
"Then we'll talk."
I doubt it. I do not subscribe to your rant, and you do not subscribe to my faith.
Yes. Yes it is. Your church, as you describe it, is not a church at all. Its function is based on denial and frankly, deceit. I imagine the appeal is for progressive minded people who abhor all the psychotic, schizophrenic and paradoxical elements of biblical scripture upon which all forms of Christian theology are
founded. But this approach to progressive religion is, in some ways, more insidious than the proclamations of the most extreme fundamentalists. No matter how much you deny or ignore it, being a Christian, of whatever stripe, gives tacit agreement to all its abuses.
So be it in your mind only.
Also, if someone doesn't want to be with God on earth, why would they want to be with Him forever in heaven? Heaven, according to John, is eternal presence with God. Hell is His absence. It's a literal place, and if you believe the Bible, you believe in hell. If you don't believe in hell, you don't believe the whole Bible, as Jesus preached 11 sermons on hell. Likewise, if you don't teach about hell or Satan, you're not teaching the whole Bible.
Also, the church is the Body of Christ. Try I Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4 and 5, etc. Is it a place to expose people to our post-modern middle class American values, or to do the work of Christ (His will, His way)? Think about it.
Just some comments for thought...
Can you tell us now, why God condones slavery?
Witness the modern conservative, the Texas school books, our nation's standing in scientific literacy.
Isaac Asimov told us about ourselves in 1989........
http://www.americanhumanist.org/HNN/details/2011-05-ignorance-by-isaac-asimov
Still we are convinced we can continue BS'n our way through.
I also affirm that the Word of God is true, and as that is my conviction I will proclaim it to be so. Truth is not relative, but it is not known by all.
Your comment implies that my views are the foundation of BS that is responsible for modern conservatives, Texas school books, and our nation's standing in scientific literacy and employs the fallacy of attacking a strawman rather than the content of what I said. I hope you can give the content of the issue some real thought, rather than disjoint, unrelated social phenomena.
And you are telling us about ourselves in 2011. Kewl :-)
This absurdity went on for almost a year of my young life, and when I look back on that anguish, shame, and waste of precious, carefree youth, it still makes me shudder, almost a half century later.
To willfully put another kid through that would be criminal.
Perhaps, but if so, you are guilty of your own crime.
Is guilt a thing you can impose on another person that doesn't want it? I don't think so. There's a bit of manipulation possible at times and guilt over masturbation is perhaps the most common of this sort of complaint. As I have read science fiction and non-fiction on the subject I realize that orgasm produces strong emotions that are supposed to bond you to your mate. But of course, if you don't have one this bonding has nowhere to go, and you feel sadness and inadequacy that you have failed to breed.
I consider it pure Darwinian evolution -- you are supposed to mate with a member of your species and of the opposite gender; any other thing is supposed to make you feel inadequate. Don't blame it on a priest.
The Easter Bunny has never been part of my household. Easter eggs, yes, bunny, no.
Santa Claus comes every year and I am him. I am also the tooth fairy. Sometimes I dress up in a tutu for this purpose. My children know to disbelieve in me at peril of no more money from the tooth fairy.
In my house, I am an authority, and will speak my knowledge, and you have no credibility in my house. You speak words without knowledge.
That's the difference.
I have no idea. Perhaps you can explain this? Not that this happens very often, or ever, but as a hypothetical scenario...
"Why not teach them about the REAL world"
I don't know why not. I cannot think of a reason not to teach my children about the real world; but of course, more than this world exists. There's a solar system, comets, asteroids, planets, stars, galaxies, nebulae, dark matter -- and God.
If you lack knowledge of any of these things, methods exist to remediate that lack. It is not for you to decide that any of this knowledge is despicable, except of course, for you alone for whom you get to decide anything you want.
I do not believe the devil person can compel anyone. Thus, whatever devilish behavior one observes is the observed person's behavior.
It is sufficient to explain that *temptations* exist, but you can call them peer pressure if you like and it works out pretty much the same.
The devil is a convenience. I accept that there is a devil person just as there's a God; equally unlikely to actually visit you in person. However, temptation to do good ought to be in balance with temptation to do bad.
Some people think they are doing good, when in fact they are doing bad; and amazingly, it goes the other way -- I have had friends and roommates that thought they were doing bad when in fact it was good.
Thus, parental instruction is absolutely vital to know good from bad. Whether you throw in the actual devil probably doesn't matter much.
"The devil created the NFL to keep people out of church on sunday"
"Your gay uncle who died of HIV (who was a WONDERFUL person) is burning in hell"
"Your Grandmother is in hell because she was a Jehovah's Witness"
"Don't ask the Pastor "those type" of questions about the bible because it's disrepectful"
and my personal favorite:
"If you don't say your prayers before bed, then the devil will get you when you're sleeping"
Now why would i want to subject my kids to such psychological abuse such as this?
Whatever happened to being good for goodness sake? Honestly? Wouldn't it be more productive to teach children the benefits of helping their fellow humans? To being good contributors to their country and community? Instead of rehashing the same tired old bible stories with their twisted and spun messages, you could simply teach them to be good citizens.
Two cents injected.
No doubt. What would make them even happier is Prozac or so I'm told. My point here is that "happiness" is an emotional state of mind that may well not be real-world optimum, where unhappiness is occasionally a normal and possibly inevitable state.
You can have the fear of God hanging over their heads compelling behavior such as not stealing, or you can have fear of the police and prisons hanging over their heads, but you'd better have SOMETHING compelling acceptable social behavior.
"Wouldn't it be more productive to teach children the benefits of helping their fellow humans? "
Christianity is almost solely about this very thing.
"Instead of rehashing the same tired old bible stories "
Those same tired old bible stories are about the Good Samaritan, the widow's mite, and so on.
The very things you say ought to be taught, ARE taught, in those old bible stories!
But I speak of Christianity -- the new testament. The Old Testament is Judaism and quite similar to Islam, and for similar reasons. Society in a desert environment requires some pretty strict social customs.
"you could simply teach them to be good citizens."
Indeed, but what exactly does that mean? Put it in a book and suddenly you have "religion".
15 Butter [another specie's offspring's food processed into man's food = civilization] and honey [natural food overproduced and eaten by man = nature] shall he eat [learn laws of], that he may know to refuse the evil [civilization], and choose the good [nature].
16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou [man in general] abhorrest [are afraid of] shall be forsaken [by the child] of both [the 2 of] her kings [god and devil].
Based on that interpretation if Isaiah 7:14-16, I would say no, however, for them to make it their choices they should know what people believe. The reason, reading through verse 22 talks about the tribulation and suggests everyone who "is alive and remains" must follow the same example as Jesus.
Sin should be taught as "missing the mark" or "missing the intended purpose" and not "disobedience to god." What that does is require them to find for themselves, through objective observation, participation and reasoning, the intended purpose for everything. In doing that they will not become addicted to things from religion to drugs or anything in between.
All authorities should be questioned with reasoned inquiry.
Religion should be taught as "the way of life which teaches one the purpose for existence."