William Ayers and John McCain
Every time I think of William Ayers, I also think of John McCain, because they are of the same era, and they both believed in the efficacy of violence. According to an article in Friday's New York Times, McCain once said of Ayers, "How can you countenance someone who was engaged in bombings that could have or did kill innocent people?" He had to use that "could have or did" because no one knows if bombs Ayers built actually killed anyone -- let's say that the odds are against it. Likewise, no one knows whether the bombs John McCain dropped on North Vietnam ever killed anyone. According to McCain's biography, "With the outbreak of the Vietnam War, McCain volunteered for combat duty and began flying carrier-based attack planes on low-altitude bombing runs against the North Vietnamese. ...On October 26, 1967, during his 23rd air mission, McCain´s plane was shot down during a bombing run over the North Vietnamese capital of Hanoi." Let's say, given those twenty-three bombing runs, the odds are for McCain having killed some innocents. How can you countenance someone who was engaged in bombings that could have or did kill innocent people, John?
But, of course, John McCain's defense is that he was performing his patriotic duty, and that's what William Ayers would have said, too. I remember the Vietnam War. It was not a war of self-defense that the U.S. had to wage or had to win. It was a war of aggression, a waste of resources, lives, manpower, global good will, and national spirit. And, many would say, it was a war crime. Those who were against it viewed their protests as essential patriotism, a way of correcting terrible choices and profound injustices.
According to the New York Times article, William Ayers' case was thrown out of court because of "illegal wiretaps and prosecutorial misconduct", exactly the sort of activities that will get cases brought against the Guantanamo detainees by the Bush Administration thrown out of court. Deja vu all over again.
In the meantime, what about the case against John McCain? The next time he goes abroad, might some enterprising human rights activist step up to him and put him under a citizens' arrest for war crimes and get him hauled off to the The Hague?
I don't think Barack Obama would like that. As snarky and contemptuous as McCain acts toward Obama, I think President Obama would defend McCain. In fact, I think he would feel about him as he does about Ayers -- he's an old man, and the wars he once fought are over and done with. Time to get past fighting old battles. Sometimes I agree with him. But then McCain brings up Williams Ayers again, and I can't help thinking of those bombing runs, and those dead innocents.
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Since Obama was eight when Ayers was doing all of this, I think it is a stretch to condemn him for it.
Let's talk about how many of McCain's current and recent advisers and staff members are lobbyists with the very people who have contributed to our economy being in the toilet.
"Guilt by Association"
Salem witch trials.
Worked well during the 'Red Scare'.
Stalin used it effectively.
Hitler used it efficiently.
Lieutenant Calley used it at Mi Lai.
I can think of no instance in history where it was judged by history as honorable.
Just this morning TWO different callers called in on CSPAN angry about Obama's connection to Ayres.
This is an attack that is being pushed heavily by the radical Rightwing on Hate Radio.
What else than unsubstantiated, bellicose rhetoric do these people have to excuse their support of McCain?
Can't argue issues or say their Republican candidate isn't the same Bush but now adorned with lipstick.
Lies and character assassinations are the straws they desperately grasp onto. They have nothing else because their "dear leader" has none to give.
So much for McCain's promise to "run a clean campaign".
GObama/Biden '08/'12!
One must take a philosophical approach to this. Yes they are screaming loudly to anyone who will listen. By my estimation that is about 30% of our population. They are going to listen to it and believe it no matter what any of us say or do about it.
Let them go. They need to learn whatever they need to learn on their own. All the coddling, nurturing, educating, compassion, and explanation from us will not yield one thin iota of changing their minds. Either they come into on their own, or they remain woefully angry and ignorant. They do not want to be convinced otherwise.
For this 30% it is easier to be suspicious and full of hate and rage. If is their lifeblood. Really really sad and unfortunate.
Excellent "reality check" Dynamohurn. You certainly helped me! Good therapy read!
I'm afraid that this talk about Ayers (and Wright and Rezko) is only going to get MUCH louder the more desperate conservatives get. It's not something to just shrug off either; it is the sort of thing that can sway an undecided voter's mind if we don't keep gently and reasonably mocking this stuff for the tinfoil-hat tabloid conspiracy crap that it is. Just remember: when you make your argument, your audience is not the person shouting this stuff; it's the person who might have heard it without realizing how crazy it is.
John McCain remains a bellicose man.
A dishonorable Liar.
McCain is THE poster child for all GOP men.
GObama/Biden '08/'12!
For the life of me, I can't understand why Americans aren't more outraged by the THOUSANDS of innocent civilians who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hands of our military. As a Christian, I am deeply saddened, as a taxpayer who paid for the bombs, I am deeply ashamed, but as a citizen, I am deeply perplexed as to why it's not a major issue in the campaign. What does it say about us as a people that we care not for other human beings in far off countries? Let's face it, ending these wars is paramount to preserve what little dignity and humanity we have left as a nation, and it's FAR more important than what some sixties radical did decades ago.
You are so right. I hope you don't mind that I copied your blog and shall paste it in the days to come into many blogs.....
The vast majority of those innocent civilians were killed by terrorists setting off suicide bombs (Al Qaeda), and by the various militias and criminal gangs fighting each other.
Very few were killed by US forces. In any case, even more Iraqis were killed under Saddam's rule, either by murder, by using oil-for-food money for palaces and other luxuries, or in the useless war with Iran.
I'm so sick of hearing about Ayers. The Republicans can't win this election on the issues so they will attack Obama on the people he knows. I heard a woman say today that Obama was a terrioist just because he knew Ayers. Obama was 8 years old when Ayers did the things they say he did and Ayers was hired by a University to teach and his students speak highly of him and the Mayor speaks highly of him.
Maybe we can bring up John McCain's Keating 5 scandal.
Unrepentant terrorist Ayers has a very rich Daddy. His position in Chicago society was secured by that, and by the amoral education establishment there. He's a wealthy socialite.
Influential daddies are always a problem. If McCain didn't have admiral daddies and gandpas would he have lasted in Annapolis - maybe not. If Bush junior didn't have daddy George HW and granpa Prescott would he have the same influencial position.
As to wealthy socialites - I don't move in those circles but I strongly suspect in that demographic there are far more republicans.
You should be ashamed for putting McCain and Ayers in the same sentence. Ayers bombed US his own American people, McCain bombed our enemy in a WAR.
The left wants to be all touchy feeling with the people who hate us...so why don't we drop them off in Afghanistan and see how it goes.
Most of the chickenhawks are right-wing neocons. Why don't we drop THEM off in Afganistan and see how it goes?
Oh--- what a surprise. Someone who calls herself a "queen" issuing royal edicts which amount to "Off with her head". The anti-democratic character of the Republicans could not be clearer. They believe in a system of government which is based on the whim of the designated ruler.
Want to commit a crime and get away without punishment? Just have the Republican in charge okay it. You can threaten your neighbors with death, but if you're a Republican, it's okay. And you wonder why people hate you?
The Vietnamese didn't hate us. Nor did the Muslim world until we invaded Iraq.
And it was never a declared war.
Thank you. That is so true.
Maybe you should just get on down to the local recruitment office and be on your merry way to fight our enemies. I am sure they could arrange to drop you off in Afghanistan and you will then be able to see how it goes. Be sure to get back to us all with that info as we will be waiting patiently for your assessment of "how it is going".
But surely you must realize that for many people, who view the Iraq war as a serious misstep (they don't tend to see Afghanistan in the same light - that one made sense) McCain and Bush are in fact killing our own people. Not everyone sees Iraq as a patriotic thing.
Jane
One man was a United States serviceman, the other was a terrorist trying to blow up the capital.
Shame on you for comparing them!
to Vietnamese civilians caught in the crossfire, John McCain was equally a terrorist. shame on you for not seeing the equivalence.
How low can you go with your comparisons? Ayers is a domestic terrorist who set bombs at government buildings. While he was serving on a board with Obama for six years, in actuality he should have been behind bars. Calling anyone who serves in the military a terrorist is pathetic.
Typical Republican lack of humanitarianism. The Vietnam War was a crime. But Republicans will forever defend it, even though one of the main architects of it - Robert McNamara - has in a blubbery interview said that he IS a war criminal (see the movie The Fog of War).
There were no Vietnamese who were the "enemy" unless by this term you mean who the U.S. government SAID they were your enemy. And you still believe them.
Even McCain briefly questioned the mission while he was part of it according to colleagues. Do a little research.
Americans can't come to terms with "errors" (I would say "crimes") done in their name by their government. Iraq is another one of them and the Bush and Cheney cabal will be pursued for it all the rest of their lives.
McCain is still one of those who believe that had we just dropped more bombs we would have "won". Same with the Middle East - more troops is going to "win" it.
Nazis were prosecuted for similar beliefs.
War crimes are war crimes. Doesn't matter whether the perpetrators are US servicemen or not. The Johnson administration was guilty of war crimes, but they were never punished. The Bush administration is even more guilty of war crimes. The difference is, the left called for punishment in both cases. Ther right only wants to punish the left.
One man's terrorist is another man's patriot. Hence, the British response to the Boston Tea Party. They still call it the American Rebellion and not a revolution, by the way.
Tell that to the little girl running down the street, her skin and clothes burned off by napalm.
Eight years ago Republicans decided that George W. Bush would make a better president than John McCain. They might have been wrong, but who knows? Over these eight years McCain has lost whatever semblance of integerity he might have had then, so perhaps he's ready to take over the trashing of the United States.
Let the swift boating begin!
Perhaps I am naive, but I have to think that the McCain of eight years ago would have had better judgment than to have gotten us into the unspeakable Iraq quagmire, which today he goes to such great lengths to embellish and make a noble undertaking.
Of course, what we've seen in the past eight years is a man who seems on the edge of dementia and who has long since abandoned any shred of principle in his hell-bent drive to do better than his daddy and grandaddy before he buys the farm, which incidentally in light of his Type 3 Melanoma could be much sooner than any of us would like.
In that pursuit, he has shown himself to be fully prepared to throw the country under the proverbial bus we hear so much about. Evidence? Sarah Palin.
Considering McCain was talking up the Iraq war before we even got to Afghanistan, I think it's pretty safe to say we wouldn't be much better off if we were looking back at a lame duck McCain administration right now.
And I like Obama's chances against McCain now much better than I'd like Obama's (or Clinton's) chances against Bush after 8 years of McCain.
> I think President Obama would defend McCain. In fact, I think he would feel about him as he
> does about Ayers -- he's an old man, and the wars he once fought are over and done with.
> Time to get past fighting old battles.
Exactly. We think Obama reasons this way because it is congruent with his reasoning in the past.
However, it doesn't help a former POW who still fights to win the previous war.
I am old enough to remember the Japanese Army veterans crawling out of the bush on some unnamed Pacific island in the '70's who had to be told WW II was over ...
Go Jane! Great article.
I read earlier on a mainstream newsite that John McCain will start to atteck Obama's character. So Ayers will be brought up as well as Pastor Wright and probably Rezko. I think your agrument about McCain will not fly with average voters. Actions while taken as a member of the military are seen in a differnt light. If anyone should be arrested for war crimes, it should be Bush and Cheney.
If Ayers is guilty of making bombs or connected to bombings, why isn't his butt in jail? And if he gives a rip about his reputation, WHY DOESN'T HE SUE SOMEONE for FALSE and MISLEADING STATEMENTS.
Because it is true go read his history. If it were false he could sue, ha can't sue for people telling the truth.
If it were true why was he not convicted?
Ayers called for bombings. There's never been any evidence that he built any bombs. The courts decided, and it's over.
Utterly false. He has said in numerous interviews that he built ands set several bombs, including the ones that exploded at the Capitol and at the Pentagon.
He has also said that he didn't regret it, and that he wished he done more. He said that in an interview that was published on Sept 11, 2001.
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