Vaccines

The Los Angeles Times featured a scary, virtually fact-free article about vaccines on its front page Sunday. They dredged up old stories and concluded with a quote from an over-exposed expert who makes millions of dollars from his vaccine patents.

Parents' blogs and bulletin boards lit up and one lawyer wanted to know if he could see a list of names of unvaccinated children. In response, I would ask to see his complete medical history to make certain he carried nothing which threatened anyone else. Ever

My moderate response to the Times and the parents concerned below:

_________________

Dear Friends,

The article in the Los Angeles Times this morning has generated a lot of discussion and I was asked to respond.

Unvaccinated children do not pose a threat to vaccinated children or their families.

We all have a responsibility to keep each other's children safe. Choosing to not vaccinate or choosing an alternative vaccine schedule could be considered a rift in that contract. Medically, scientifically and statistically speaking, it is not. Honest people might disagree.

I have been a pediatrician for thirty years and have watched children receive all scheduled vaccines, some of the vaccines or receive no vaccines at all. I have seen every one of the illnesses against which we vaccinate. Since the early 1980s, I have seen bacterial meningitis in a child once and once in a teenager but the extreme rarity of this terrible disease means that it makes the news whenever a case occurs anywhere in the U.S. Denying that childhood meningitis exists is dishonest, but equally dishonest is implying that it is a large threat to any of our children. I see kids with pertussis every year. I see children misdiagnosed with whooping cough far more often. Two years ago, the New York Times took note of this phenomenon--The Whooping Outbreak that Wasn't

2009 marks the thirty year anniversary of the last case of "wild polio" in the United States. Subsequent cases were caused by the oral polio vaccine which is no longer used in this country.

In 2008, Somalia, for the first time ever, reported no cases of polio. Somalia?!

Rubella is no longer an "American" disease . This is from those crazy anti-vaccine folks at the CDC

I recently read an article, written in 2009 which chastised non-vaccinating parents because there had been 131 cases of measles in the U.S. in the first half of 2008 alone. And how many cases were there in the whole year? 134. The usual number? 62. Disingenuous reporting. An extra 72 cases of measles among 300,000,000 Americans made the papers every day or two for months and the LA Times writers dredge up the child who caught measles on a Swiss vacation one more time.

Yes, as mentioned, measles and other viruses can cause encephalitis. It's very, very rare. Implying otherwise could scare parents.

And, no, the law does not allow us to know which children have not received vaccines any more than it allows other invasions of privacy.

I have received hundreds of emails from people all over the country and the world reaching out to me and asking me to listen to them about vaccine issues and injuries because it seems that no one else will. I have permission from a mother to forward email she sent to me--with a picture--of her four month old daughter who received four vaccines and died shortly thereafter. I have dozens and dozens of similar emails and dozens of face-to-face encounters in my office with parents coming to me after what they considered to be vaccine damage to their children. I will not forward that email. It creates a different kind of fear that also doesn't serve the dialogue well.

I think that these possibly injured children and families represent one end of the bell shaped curve and that scary stories about meningitis in Minnesota (the first there in 18 years) represent the other end. (I do feel that the former end of the curve is far fuller than the latter but no proof exists. None.)

The LA Times stories were "fear-based" just as my forwarding these emails would have been.

The University of Michigan Law Review recently invited me to write a journal article about vaccines and tort law and I joined a spirited debate among people who knew more law but less medicine than I. I felt quite welcome.

I sum up my law review presentation to parents every winter by telling them that the only way to avoid childhood illnesses is "reverse isolation" of your illness-free child. If you go to a two-year-old's birthday party during the winter months . . . You will probably get sick.

Peripherally, let's all remember that it took fifty years or more, thousands of court cases and a lot of money to finally prove the connection between cigarettes and cancer. The three court cases showing no connection between vaccines and autism should make no headlines and should be an impetus to honest investigative journalism.

We have increased the number of vaccines and the combinations of vaccines (initially rejected) given to babies and children. Adequate testing has not been done. I have seen a huge rise in the number of children with autism. Neither I nor any other doctors are hundreds of percent better at diagnosing this spectrum of developmental delay than ten or twenty years ago. (I asked my wife, "Dear, am I 800% smarter than when you met me?" Her response was pleasant, not acerbic and not affirmative, but I choose to omit it here.) The dramatic rise in the number of cases of autism spectrum disorders is attributable to something other than "reclassification" or better diagnosis. Vaccines may play a large role in triggering autism in susceptible children or they may play a minor rule. Until we're sure we can't possibly coerce parents into vaccinating their babies. Discuss and debate, yes but coercion and legal drama ignore the likelihood that there some side effects from the dozens of shots we give our babies and toddlers.

While waiting for scientific proof, we have to tolerate families' completely legal and scientific desire to have or not have their children given vaccines according to the current schedule.

Best,

Jay

Jay Gordon, MD, Fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics, FABM, IBCLC Emeritus

http://twitter.com/JayGordonMDFAAP

Comments

[maggiemom]

Autism like symptoms can be seen at very early ages -but the diagnosos is generally not given untill about four or five even. So the rate of vaccinations would have to decrease for that long to see it come around. I am not recomending we try that I am only saying it so people will not think that at a year of reduced vaxes we would see it. We wouldn't see a down turn until 2011 at the earliest.

[samuel99]

1. The decrease in vaccination rate is not just in the last year. It’s been decreasing for 10 years, particularly in the UK where they’ve gone from 91% to 80% or lower in London.

2. The anecdotal claims all suggest autism is triggered within weeks or months of the jab. If that’s true the incidence rate should respond on a similar time scale. If you now claim a 5-year lag, then all those anecdotal claims are invalid. You can’t choose different time lags to fit different sets of data.

3. The lag time for measles should be at least as long as for the autism response, and the measles incidence HAS responded to the reduced vaccination rates.

4. There have been long stretches with essentially no change in vaccination regimen or rate, with plenty of time for the autism incidence to respond, but there are no plateaus in the autism incidence, only a steady increase.

In short, even a superficial look at the data shows that there is no correlation between vaccines and autism.

[hera1]

Samuel99,
Firstly, and this is meant kindly, you probably find that many people in this disagreement have researched many peer review studies and done more than look at things superficially.
And there are lots of unanswered questions.
One basic fact is that the MMR does not and never has contained thimerosal­.Reactions to the MMR are likely to be a reaction to the live viruses it contains.(­Thimerosal­, a mercury preservative would kill live viruses.)
Re additions to the Uk vaccine schedule: MMR added 1988, accelerated primary schedule at 2,4,6 months,started 1990. Hib added 1992.TD added 1994.MMR second dose added 1996.Men C conjugate added 1999,acellular pertussis booster at 3-5 yrs, added 2001,IPV combo added 2004.
The amount of vaccines most children are getting in the UK is not going down.
By the way recent best practice has changed for giving vaccinations in cats.Vets are now advised to give vaccinations in the leg,to prevent a side effect in some animals where cancer forms at the site of repeated injections ( cancer is easier to treat or amputate on the leg than the shoulder blades. It appears to be the adjuctant ( an inflammation agent added to vaccines to create a reaction) that is causing the problem.Just food for thought.

[hera1]

Thank you for a great article.Re the lawyer who wanted to know who was unvaccinat­ed,persona­lly I would be interested in knowing HIS vaccine status.Assuming he was vacinated as a child in the 80's or before, he is missing a lot of shots by the current schedule.Has he gone back and got his Hep B series for example?And if he says he is not at risk of a mainly sexually/blood born disease, we all know babies are almost certainly in a lower risk group than he is..but it is important enough for them to get vaccinated on the day of birth, before the blood brain barrier is even completely developed.And then there is the fact that most vaccines do not give life time immunity.My understanding is that the whooping cough vaccine for example, lasts for about 5 years. My understanding is that the MMR wears off in early adulthood. If that lawyer hasn't deliberately gone back as an adult, and got many re vaccinations, he unfortunately is as much a part of the unvaccinated herd as those young children he is so worried about. Even if he has, if he is truly concerned about herd immunity,he may do better to harrass the many adults who no doubt need re vaccination at his workplace and in his social group,and perhaps leave those who are trying to protect young and vulnerable babies who may already have risk factors for vaccine damage, in peace.

[samuel99]

The autism rate has continued to increase unabated without a single blip in response to changes in vaccine regimen or penetration, including the removal of mercury from MMR, and enough of a decrease in penetration to see an increase in the incidence of measels, particularly in the UK. The claimed correlation is simply not there, your anecdotal observations notwithstanding.

[maggiemom]

First- they stillhave toxic metals-yes still have mercury. You won't know because vaccines are exempt from labling. I cannot find out what in them and that makkes me nervous.
Further it is correlating to the vaccine it could be something other than mercury in them. It does seem to follow multiple vaccines-like MMR, pediarix (which is five viruses in ) and especially when a flu shot is given on the same visit. Finally, the rate of vaccination going down in the last year or so would not decrease Autism diagnosis for another year or so.

[samuel99]

You don't know what's in them, but you know they have mercury? There is mercury in some flu shots, but not in California, and not in any MMR shots. In any case, the amount decreased dramatically, with no effect on the autism trend.

It is not correlating to the vaccine. In the past 20 years there have been long periods with almost no changes to the vaccine regimen, but autism continues to trend up. If they were correlated, there would be correlated plateaus.

The vaccination rate has gone down for more than a year and it has decreased enough to see an increase in measles, which has a longer lag time than that claimed for autism. But no decrease in autism.

[samuel99]

Can you give an example where the medical establishment (as a collective) promoted smoking as good for you? I'd be interested to see it.

The fact is that the medical consensus that smoking causes cancer was formed in less than twice the lag time after smoking became widespread, and in considerably less than one lag time after the first suspicions were published.

It is now 50 years (and hundreds of proposed lag times) since some vaccinations have been widespread, and well over 10 years (> 100 lag times) since the vaccine-autism scare first surfaced, and the medical consensus is virtually unanimous that there is no link.

"They uped the mumps level in the vaccines at merck around 12 years ago- Autism ballons."

The autism trend over the last 20 years has followed a very smooth, increasing trend. There was no change in the trend 12 years ago that I can see.

It's possible that Merck lowered the level because they found that it was sufficiently effective with a lower dose, and more economical.

[CraigWilloughby]

"The autism rate has continued to increase unabated without a single blip in response to changes in vaccine regimen or penetration, including the removal of mercury from MMR"

But, wait a second. Aren't scientists claiming that there ISN'T an increase? That it's just better diagnosis and diagnostic substitution? Oh, I see....it's an increase without actually being an increase.

Mercury was never in the MMR.

[samuel99]

"Aren't scientists claiming that there ISN'T an increase? "

By "autism rate" I meant the rate of diagnosed autism, which is increasing at a rate that appears insensitive to anything happening with vaccines.

"Mercury was never in the MMR."

Substitute "mercury from most vaccines". The point stands.

[samuel99]

The smoking comparison doesn't fit. Smoking has a 20-year latency, compared to weeks claimed for vaccine-autism. From the first indications of a smoking-cancer link to a widespread medical consensus was about 20 years. The smoking-cancer link makes biomedical sense, and long before the statistical evidence was definitive, the vast majority of medical researchers (the medical establishment) warned against likely dangers of smoking. Only a few on the fringe remained skeptical. The vaccine-autism situation is quite the other way around.

Pick any drug that has proved to have unacceptable side effects this century, with a latency of less than a few years, and compare that to vaccines and autism. In every case, the drug was pulled in a matter of years. The vaccine-autism scare is now more than a decade old, and still no evidence for the link has been found.

[maggiemom]

There was a time when the medical establishmnet promoted smoking as good for you! And they slowly came around to the realization that it was bad!

They uped the mumps level in the vaccines at merck around 12 years ago- Autism ballons.
Merck just lowered the level down to a lower level-why? they wouldn't say.
I think that they may know something they don't want the public to know.

[samuel99]

see above response, which got misthreaded

[samuel99]

Your first sentence called the Times article fact-free, but you didn't contradict anything in it.

Of course the diseases we vaccinate against are rare. It's because we vaccinate against them. The alarm from isolated cases now is not from the number itself, but from the trend, which indicates consequences of increased anti-vax sentiment.

Parents who do not vaccinate do endanger vaccinated children, because the vaccination is not 100% successful. Vaccinated children for whom it does not take are endangered by the selfish behavior of those who do not vaccinate.

[lsmom2]

Thank you for a calm, level headed response to the LA Times article. The hostility towards anyone who questions the vaccine schedule is amazing. Most people believe that thimerosal has been removed from all vaccines. They also dont know that doctors and pharmaceutical companies are immune from vaccine lawsuits.

The media constantly publishes stories supporting vaccination, like the ones where compensation has been denied from the vaccine court. But you never here about the cases where the court paid the victim of vaccine damage.

[TannersDad]

Thank you Jay. I am still amazed that anyone believes in herd immunity. At best isolation and ring vaccination should be the method in developed countries. Also stricter border patrol. Sometimes the issue gets glossed over. The parents would be much less vocal if the pharmaceutical companies just looked after the young souls throw out to the garbage. Our families dealing with autism need help with therapies, treatments, respite, education, insurance, and sanity. Thank you again. Tanners Dad http://www.causecast.org/member/tanners-dad