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Jeff Norman

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Report Shows More Than One Side to Zimmerman Storyline

Posted: 05/04/2012 12:00 am

Chris Francescani's otherwise solid Reuters article about George Zimmerman, with previously undisclosed and illuminating background info, is marred by Francescani's baseless assertion that Zimmerman "disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin." Actually, there's no known evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin after the police dispatcher "suggested" he halt, but the lynch mob has brainwashed a lot of people into perceiving fiction as fact.

There needs to be probable cause (incriminating evidence) that the shooting was unlawful. The use of deadly force when it's reasonable to fear great bodily harm or death is a right, not just a defense that can be used in response to charges. That's why the State of Florida submitted a probable cause affidavit. In other words, it's unlawful to prosecute someone without probable cause. Renowned criminal defense attorneys such as Jeralyn Merritt and Alan Dershowitz have explained (here, here and here) why the affidavit is terribly flawed. If the best refutation of their criticism is that it's common to prosecute people who've shot others, the State has failed to meet its evidentiary burden.

One needn't be a legal expert to recognize that nothing has been disclosed which indicates Zimmerman violated any law. There's a huge and discrediting gap between that nothingness, and the phony certainty of the lynch mob.

Francescani's "reporting" (as if it were an undisputed fact) that Zimmerman "disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin" is typical of the pro-prosecution bias that dominates our culture. It's not even complicated. Quite simply, nobody is known to have witnessed what George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin did or said between the moment Zimmerman finished speaking with the police dispatcher, and when the Zimmerman/Martin encounter thereafter began. Zimmerman said "okay" when the dispatcher implied he shouldn't keep following Martin. He then sounds (in the recording of his conversation with the dispatcher) as if he indeed aborted his pursuit. Zimmerman later told police that after the call, he did what he and the dispatcher agreed he should do, which was find an address so he could tell the responding cops exactly where to meet him. How does this add up to Zimmerman chasing Martin with murderous intent -- or chasing him at all -- after the phone call?

That such a flub is contained in even a basically impressive piece of journalism, and that nobody (to my knowledge) has commented on it, shows how deeply ingrained the bias is.

Of course all killings should be thoroughly investigated. My beef is with the public's rush to judgment, and special prosecutor Angela Corey's decision to charge Zimmerman with second degree murder when no evidence has been presented that supports it. Corey is placating the lynch mob instead of honoring established evidentiary standards.

It's not as if charging Zimmerman with second degree murder was a prerequisite to uncovering evidence. Corey's ample investigative powers would not have been diminished had she decided Zimmerman should not be charged.

Those who demanded a criminal prosecution see themselves as righteous defenders of a victim, but they fail to realize Zimmerman is also a victim, because he's been denied the presumption of innocence to which he's entitled. Moreover, the lynch mob's phony certainty undermines the stalwart and important efforts of reputable watchdogs who are working to eradicate police misconduct, particularly the sort of racial profiling that infringes on the liberty of innocent Americans. In the name of justice, misguided supporters of Trayvon Martin and his family are rallying around a ridiculously weak case, and ignoring incidents in White Plains, NY and Los Angeles that deserve greater scrutiny.

This piece was also published at CitizenJeff.com.

 

Follow Jeff Norman on Twitter: www.twitter.com/citizenjeff

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01:58 AM on 05/20/2012
He was told not to continue following him by the dispatcher on the 911 recording. That's going to be played during the trial. Also. ....the teen was still living as long as Zimmerman was in Zimmermans vehicle. The trouble started with the confrontation ...deal with it.
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Presson
more reasonable than you can comprehend
11:03 AM on 05/17/2012
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/16/autopsy-results-reportedly-indicate-trayvon-martin-suffered-injuries-to/?cmpid=prn_aol&icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D161719

The autopsy is now showing Trayvon's knuckles had abrasions. First move? It could have been.
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jsgaetano
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus
01:19 AM on 06/02/2012
"Stand Your Ground" gives Trayvon every right to defend himself. Especially when being stalked by an armed pill popper with a history of violently aggressive behavior.
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blessed457100902
Smooth Christian married man. Frank honest and dir
06:58 AM on 06/04/2012
Changes nothing. GZ left his vehicle and engaged in a homicide how and why is on him hence being charged. TM could have broken his hand GZ did not apply equal force under the SYG law and want use that period because he knows he wasn't. Self-defense is a common law his only way out and that want work because once again if you never left your vehicle there would be no need for self-defense. Common sense applies here.
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Richbruin
We'll walk this world together through the storm
10:24 AM on 05/17/2012
The suggestion that Zimmerman is a victim in this situation is absurd and shameless. The only time he deserves a presumption of innocence is when he goes to trial. Until then, the public is not obligated to be ignorant and pretend what is obvious (Zimmerman profiled, engaged and killed someone) is a mystery.
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LJ P
aut viam inveniam aut faciam
12:47 PM on 05/19/2012
Actually you are wrong. An American citizen is presumed innocent until a guilty verdict is passed down by a jury of ones peers. So no, it is not ok to presume guilt before the trial..This only poisons the jury pool and denies ones right to fair and unbiased trial by a jury of ones peers. This is a corner stone of our legal system.
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Richbruin
We'll walk this world together through the storm
05:26 PM on 05/20/2012
As I recall, I have a constitutional right to free speech and voice my opinion and my opinion is that Zimmerman is guilty of racial profiling and murder. Sad that I'm a dentist and have a better grasp of the law than you.
11:55 PM on 05/14/2012
"One needn't be a legal expert to recognize that nothing has been disclosed which indicates Zimmerman violated any law."
It's against the law to kill people. Zimmerman killed Martin. Was the killing justified? That's what the courts are there to determine. And Zimmerman is going to have that determination made in court, because he has a presumption of innocence.
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PermanentVacancy
Those who do not move, do not notice their chains.
12:35 PM on 05/15/2012
Police kill people everyday. Are they held to the same laws as us lowly mundanes??
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jsgaetano
Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus
01:21 AM on 06/02/2012
Every day? In which country?
09:25 AM on 05/13/2012
Very biased and presumptive article, and pretty whiny.
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LJ P
aut viam inveniam aut faciam
12:49 PM on 05/19/2012
What was the bias you read? it was an article about the cornerstone of our legal system, the presumption of innocence.
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ladycrisperfst
If I be lost, even so, come Lord Jesus.
10:05 AM on 05/12/2012
Is it common for guilty individuals to come to check you out as Zimmerman reported that Trayvon did in the recording? Why did not Zimmerman just identify himself to the child? Per HP account of the father….
“…Martin recalls what Serino said:

"He told me Zimmerman's story was that Zimmerman was of course following him and that Trayvon approached his vehicle, walked up to the car and asked Zimmerman, 'Why are your following me?' Zimmerman then rolls his car windows down, tells Trayvon 'I'm not following you.' He rolls his car windows up.

"Trayvon walks off. Zimmerman said he started running between the buildings. Zimmerman gets out of his car. He comes around the building. Trayvon is hiding behind the building, waiting on him. Trayvon approaches him and says, 'What's your problem, homes?' Zimmerman says 'I don't have a problem.'

"Zimmerman starts to reach into his pocket to get his cellphone, and at that point Trayvon attacked him. He says Trayvon hits him. He falls on the ground. Trayvon jumps on top of him, takes his left hand and covers Zimmerman's mouth and tells him to shut the F up and continues to pound on him.

"At that point Zimmerman is able to unholster his weapon and fire a shot, striking Trayvon in the chest. Trayvon falls on his back and says, 'You got me.'"
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sunnubian
10:39 AM on 05/10/2012
What a crock! "There is no known evidence that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin . . ." The KNOWN EVIDENCE is Zimmerman's own words, ZIMMERMAN told exactly what he did, from following Trayvon Martin in his car, to jumping out of his car at Trayvon Martin to "confront" him, to chasing after Trayvon Martin when Trayvon took off running to get away from Zimmerman . . .

So, how is the person that initiated, confronted, and chased AFTER Trayvon possibly a "victim"? Nice try, but "victims" to not initiated the conflict, "confront" people with a gun, and chase after people trying to flee.

GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS NOT A VICTIM, PERIOD!

Zimmerman and no one else has any "probable cause" or any "reasonable to fear great bodily harm or death" in this case BECAUSE ZIMMERMAN was the aggressor, not Trayvon Martin.

It is amazing how bigoted and racist Whites will try time after time in the face of insurmountable evidence to the contrary, (and the perpetrator's own words and account of what happened), to justify any White person killing a Black person.

Disgusting!
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Jeff Norman
02:31 AM on 05/11/2012
sunnubian, I correctly said there's no known evidence Zimmerman followed Martin AFTER he spoke with the police dispatcher. The so-called evidence you cite in rebuttal doesn't include a single example that contradicts me. Besides, it's not a crime to keep track of a suspect's whereabouts until the police arrive.
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Free Plaxico
03:57 PM on 05/11/2012
There is also no evidence he didn't keep following Martin after the dispatcher said to stop either so what's your point? The questions will be answered in the trial Did George Zimmerman continue to follow Martin after he was told to stop. Who started the confrentation, who was calling for help. You are doing the same thing in the Pro Zimmerman camp as you accuse those of us who think the guy is guilty as hell of doing. There was probable cause to arrest Zimmerman, the officer who was on the scene wanted to charege him with man slaugter. And as far as what evidence the Prosecuter has to charge him with 2nd degree murder neither you nor I know what they have or don't have as evidence. You should be happy that Zimmerman was arrested because now the case moves from the media into a court room where all the evidence will be presented not drips and drabs that support one side's view or the other.
01:05 AM on 05/25/2012
It is refreshing to hear some one speak sanely about this whole thing.
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unitron
Reverse Chron Order never stays checked
09:31 PM on 05/09/2012
"Zimmerman later told police that after the call, he did what he and the dispatcher agreed he should do, which was find an address so he could tell the responding cops exactly where to meet him."

There was no such agreement.

The dispatcher asks if Zimmerman wants the police to meet him near the mailboxes.

Zimmerman at first agrees but then asks to be called by them when they arrive for further directions.

Zimmerman could have said that his vehicle was parked on the northern end of Twin Trees near where it turns to the south and given them the make, model, and color. No address needed.

At the point where the dispatcher said "Ok, we don't need you to do that." (follow Martin), Zimmerman had only been out of his vehicle for 16 seconds and the start of the struggle was another 3 to 3 and a half minutes in the future.

Plenty of time for Zimmerman to have returned to his vehicle had he wished to do so.

It doesn't take over 3 minutes to walk around from the back of those houses to the front to see an address.

Although it's obvious from the call that giving directions is not something at which he is particularly skilled, I have to wonder if he planned to give them directions to the vehicle, or if he was hoping to give them directions to the as yet unknown location where he hoped to have Martin cornered or detained.
03:24 AM on 05/08/2012
Zimmerman later told police that after the call, he did what he and the dispatcher agreed he should do, which was find an address so he could tell the responding cops exactly where to meet him.

That's nonsense. There was no agreement between Zimmerman and the dispatcher that he looks for an address. Zimmerman could have simply told him, my truck is a white pickup it's parked about x yards past the clubhouse and mailboxes on the right. Instead he asked the dispatcher if the officers could call him when they arrive.
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BlairCase
11:25 AM on 05/08/2012
The dispatcher asked Zimmerman for the address where he last saw Matin. Zimmerman anwsered thathe couldn't tell because Martin ran through the back entrace, which he said was a "cut-through" between houses. In other words, Zimmerman is looking at the back of the houses. Zimmerman says hi got out of his vehicle to check the address. It's confusing. Once the prosecution evidence is made public, the news media willl probably published schematic drawings.
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unitron
Reverse Chron Order never stays checked
09:08 PM on 05/09/2012
"The dispatcher asked Zimmerman for the address where he last saw Matin. Zimmerman anwsered thathe couldn't tell because Martin ran through the back entrace, which he said was a "cut-through" between houses."

"Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance..."
---
"Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?
Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address."

The back entrance is 70 or more yards south and to the east of the cut-though.

Zimmerman probably would not have been able to see if Martin actually ran through the back entrance or not, only that he ran in that direction. Which is the same direction as the house in which Martin was staying.

The dispatcher asked which way Martin ran, but only asked for the address in front of which Zimmerman was parked, which Zimmerman was too far away from his vehicle to be able to give just then.

None of this is helped by Zimmerman's horrendous lack of skill at giving directions.
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Jeff Norman
06:47 PM on 05/09/2012
LeaNdr22 argues: “There was no agreement between Zimmerman and the dispatcher that he looks for an address. Zimmerman could have simply told him, my truck is a white pickup it's parked about x yards past the clubhouse and mailboxes on the right.”

It’s irrelevant that it was only implied rather than stated explicitly that Zimmerman would look for an address. The point is that there’s no indication Zimmerman followed Martin instead of finding an address to give to the responding cops. Zimmerman told the dispatcher that Martin ran away, and it sounds from the recording that Zimmerman had halted.

The issue we’re discussing is a red herring, because following Martin to keep track of his whereabouts would hardly be an indication of murderous intent.

From Zimmerman’s recorded conversation with the police dispatcher:

2:27 DISPATCHER: Are you following him?

2:29 ZIMMERMAN: Yep.

2:30 DISPATCHER: Okay, we don’t need you to do that.

2:32 ZIMMERMAN: Okay.

2:44 ZIMMERMAN: He ran.

3:23 DISPATCHER: What address are you parked in front of?

3:25 ZIMMERMAN: I don’t know. It’s a cut-through, so I don’t know the address.

3:52 ZIMMERMAN: Could you have him call me, and I’ll tell him where I’m at?

3:55 DISPATCHER: Okay, yeah, that’s no problem.

4:05 DISPATCHER: Okay, no problem, I’ll let him know to call you when they’re in the area.

4:08 ZIMMERMAN: Thanks.
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Jeff Norman
07:41 PM on 05/09/2012
The times in my post above refer to junctures in this recording:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zj7qEcD8R-8
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unitron
Reverse Chron Order never stays checked
02:36 AM on 05/10/2012
"...following Martin to keep track of his whereabouts would hardly be an indication of murderous intent."

It's an excellent indication of no intent to return to his vehicle and let the police handle things.
01:27 AM on 05/08/2012
Well stated, well reasoned.
04:46 PM on 05/07/2012
The entirety of the logic boils down to a very basic statement of opinion by the writer, that because the only witness to the event (Zimmerman) says it was in self defense and there isn't overwhelming evidence to the contrary, he shouldn't be charged.

I am of the opinion that Mr. Zimmerman might have had self interested reasons to lie about his motivation and there is clearly enough circumstantial evidence to offer an alternative opinion about what happened, and for that reason, he should stand trial and be judged by a jury of his peers. Martin had rights too before he was murdered by Zimmerman, and this article could not be a more one sided piece of well articulated nonsense.

As a quick example of the writer's nonsense
"Those who demanded a criminal prosecution see themselves as righteous defenders of a victim, but they fail to realize Zimmerman is also a victim, because he's been denied the presumption of innocence to which he's entitled." Apparently negative public perception and a person's death are now equitable in the "victim" department. I am not in agreement with the writer on this point and I don't see how any person claiming to be the rationally superior observor as this writer is could make those two facts comparable. For one notable difference, the negative public perception can be overcome by crafty apologists, like the writer of this article. The murder itself, well that's a different story isn't it?
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BlairCase
11:45 PM on 05/07/2012
There were two eye witnesses to the fight who were close enough to distinguish the two apart. Both told police that Zimmerman was on the bottom and yelling for help. One said Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head agaisnt the sidewalk. He said he yelled at Martin to stop and then ran to get his cell phone to calo police. These are the only witnesses who saw as well as heard who was screaming for help.
03:27 AM on 05/08/2012
One said Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head agaisnt the sidewalk.

you are talking about witness "John", he said nothing about Martin slamming Zimmerman's head against the sidewalk, that is something Zimmerman claims.
08:16 AM on 05/08/2012
First of all, even if the witnesses are accurate in their depiction of what happened, that still says nothing about who instigated the encounter. Zimmerman knew he had a pistol when he got out of that car. I hate to break this to all the gun nuts out there, but yes when you arm yourself with lethal force you have a higher standard of conduct to adhere too. Zimmerman followed Martin either in his car or on foot, got out of his car armed, and Martin ended up dead. All of this is extremely suspicious, and given the gravity of what happened, namely the murder of a person, he should explain his side to a jury and see if they agree with his version of the events.
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Jeff Norman
07:38 PM on 05/09/2012
“The entirety of the logic boils down to a very basic statement of opinion by the writer, that because the only witness to the event (Zimmerman) says it was in self defense and there isn't overwhelming evidence to the contrary, he shouldn't be charged.”

Actually, there are other witnesses, and none of them have accused Zimmerman of any crime. It’s not that the incriminating evidence isn’t “overwhelming” as you suggest; it’s that there’s no incriminating evidence.
01:43 PM on 05/10/2012
Aside from the dead, unarmed boy you mean. Right, aside from that boy's carcass, no evidence.

Well there is that pesky admission made by Zimmerman that he followed Martin because of his fear over what Martin was doing, other than that, no evidence.

There's also that small fact that the girlfriend of Martin indicated Martin questioning Zimmerman about why he was following him, not said whether on foot or not, but obviously indicating Zimmerman initiating the contact between the two, which sounds very different from fearing for his life. Other than that, no evidence.

Oh wait, that fear came conveniently later after follwing him, after initiating the encounter. Another irrelevant fact.

Then there's all those pesky open questions, such as.
Who did instigate the fight between the two?
Who screamed for help?
etc. etc. etc.

None of this sounds to me like first degree murder, but manslaughter, yeah it does. The only statement against my position seems to me the stand your ground law. Of course, that ignores the fact that Zimmerman pursued Martin, which isn't standing ones ground, and the only person stating Martin was the pursuer on any level is the one who followed him around in his SUV and got out of his car armed to go look for him. More pesky facts that become awful convenient once the boy is dead.

But other than all of that, no reason at all to take a second look at this case.

Nonsense!
06:59 PM on 05/12/2012
I continually don't understand why I can only favorite or flag as abusive your replies to my replies but whatever, this will be my last post on this subject.

"Despite the burglary problem, and even though you didn’t observe Martin’s comportment, you’ve somehow concluded that Zimmerman’s suspicion was unfounded."

I've got a tremendous amount of reason to conclude his opinion was unfounded.

A. The boy left his dad's or dad's girlfriend's to go get a snack, which he did. That's a fact not even in dispute.
B. The boy was talking on a cell phone, walking on a sidewalk, not peering into the windows of any of the neighbors houses. (I know this because of cell phone records and the fact that Zimmerman doesn't mention this to the police while saying Martin appears to be on drugs. Incidentally, the boy wasn't found with any drugs and had been with his father just before the incident. This alone should call Zimmerman's motivation into question, and make his supporters cringe with doubt, but it doesn't, because the fear mongering gun nuts don't care about the explicit problem with this completely unfounded accusation from Zimmerman. It doesn't make them nor you for a second question whether his motivation had any legitimacy when in fact it should make you doubt every freakin' word he said. This alone shows his suspicion wasn't rational, but was basic fear based profiling.)
01:58 PM on 05/07/2012
They need to dismiss the charges against this poor guy and move on.
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pciorlandosales
have come to chew bubble gum and kick ash
05:56 PM on 05/07/2012
I agree totally. Unfortunately they are just pandering to the masses. Notice how the village has grown quite since the arrest? No more rallies ect.
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Free Plaxico
07:45 AM on 05/13/2012
LOL, you don't even understand why people got mad and started rallying do you.
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09:54 PM on 05/08/2012
But he racists see it as a matter of race. If they can't drum up a racially-motivated crime, any crime will do for them, for now.
11:17 AM on 05/07/2012
Zimmerman has not been denied the presumption of innocence, that is why he is not been sentenced. Ok it's "innocent until proven guilty" not "no arrest or arrest until proven guilty"

lol
03:24 PM on 05/08/2012
you cannot legally arrest someone until you have clear evidence it was a crime they committed. he wasnt charged with 1st degree because there isnt enough proof...in fact, there isnt enough proof so far of 2nd degree...this is why he will walk unless there is something HUGE most people havent be notified of!
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Free Plaxico
04:09 PM on 05/11/2012
That's why you go to court, becasue you don't know all the evidence. So far we have Zimmerman's statments and the theories the media has put out there. You don't know if they have enough evidence to convict or they don't let the trial play out. If you killed someone and there were no witnesses to back your story do you really think the police won't arrest you?
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09:53 PM on 05/08/2012
Being arrested and accused of a crime isn't some degree of presumption of guilt?

It's "no arrest if there's no evidence of wrongdoing".
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southingtonian
"I'm a Capricorn and you can't make me do sh*t.."
10:40 PM on 05/06/2012
"Of course all killings should be thoroughly investigated. " If this had been handled in a professional manner from the beginning, it is unlikely it would ever have come to national attention.
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pciorlandosales
have come to chew bubble gum and kick ash
05:44 PM on 05/07/2012
killings?
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southingtonian
"I'm a Capricorn and you can't make me do sh*t.."
10:34 PM on 05/07/2012
you prefer fatal 'woundings'? Or do you believe the police have the authority to choose which deaths should not be investigated? I cannot yet say 'murder' since it has not yet been ruled to be so. My own assessment, based on 3rd- and 4th-hand information, is a personal opinion, and hence has no weight.
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pezmusic
singer songwriter looks great in a cowboy hat
06:21 PM on 05/07/2012
Claims that they did not investigate were always false.
09:32 PM on 05/06/2012
"One needn't be a legal expert to recognize that nothing has been disclosed which indicates Zimmerman violated any law."

One needn't be a legal expert to recognize that nothing has been disclosed which indicates TRAYVON violated any law. He was walking in a neighborhood where his father lived.
09:03 AM on 05/07/2012
not to split hairs but assualt isn't legal in any state and there have been pictures indicating zimmerman was assaulted and the police report indicates that zimmerman was assualted.. and if it's stated that trayvon had a right to defend himself then so did zimmerman
11:19 AM on 05/07/2012
Not to split hairs, but common sense tells Trayvon had no motive to attack him unprovoked and common sense tells me that those injuries could have been self inflicted.

thanks for playing
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Free Plaxico
04:11 PM on 05/11/2012
Not to split hairs but that is an alleged assault, becasue the flip side of the assualt was it was a kid fighting for his life against an armed assailent.
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BlairCase
11:48 PM on 05/07/2012
Maring claims Martin punched him the face, knocked him down and began slamming his head against the pavement. Both the prosecution and defense agree there was a fight before the shot was fired. If Martin started the fight, that's assault and battery.
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Free Plaxico
04:11 PM on 05/11/2012
And if Zimmerman started it wha than?