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Jeff Schweitzer

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Private Faith in Public Life

Posted: 05/05/10 05:43 PM ET

I had the honor and pleasure of meeting Arianna Huffington at a recent event in Austin, Texas, sponsored by the Texas Freedom Network (TFN), an organization dedicated to fighting right wing extremism in the Lone Star State. The discussion focused on the lunacy of the current Texas State Board of Education (SBOE), which is attempting to rewrite the facts of American and world history to conform to a particularly virulent brand of conservative ideology. Decisions about text book content made in Texas reverberate across the country as a consequence of the way publishers accommodate the biggest purchasers of school books.

The subject of School Board extremism is close to my heart and the target of a series my blogs in January (two examples are: Descending Again into Darkness: An Extraordinary Revolution of Willful Ignorance; http://tiny.cc/TexasTyrannyand Bible Belt Bravado: The Beat Goes On; http://tiny.cc/BibleBelt). So I was delighted to meet in addition to Ms. Huffington two sane candidates for the SBOE, Rebecca Bell-Meterau and Judy Jennings. These candidates are our front line soldiers, the infantry in the trenches fighting our ground battle against the worst of right wing excess.

How did we arrive at this sad state of affairs in which such excess has become the norm? In her comments about SBOE abuses, Ms. Huffington offered one explanation by noting that uncertain economic times foster irrationalism and fear, and a penchant for conspiracy theories. As job losses rise, government becomes a frequent target for displaced wrath as people search for scapegoats. Extremist school boards and Glenn Beck are born.

I agree completely that economic decline contributes to a significant uptick in political extremism, the very kind we are seeing in the SBOE in Texas. Economic insecurity is fertile ground for the likes of Beck, O'Reilly, Hannity, Limbaugh and Palin. But I disagree with the thesis that job insecurity and recession are primary causes of the growing irrationalism we are witnessing in local and national politics. The state of the economy clearly exacerbates any tendency toward extremism and paranoia, but the rising fanaticism of the far right is caused by something much more sinister and insidious: the intrusion of private faith into public life.

A Christian Nation

Let us establish without doubt that we are not a Christian nation. The facts supporting that conclusion are unambiguous, overwhelming, and indisputable. The Declaration of Independence in 1776, the Articles of Confederation of 1777, the U.S. Constitution (1787), and the Federalist Papers (1787-1788) are purely secular documents. I have previously reviewed each in detail (Religion in the Affairs of Man: Mixing Theology and Politics; http://tiny.cc/theologypolitics). Searching for references to god in any of these documents is akin to looking for a BP executive at a Greenpeace rally. Nowhere to be seen.

Our national obsession with God in politics is a recent phenomenon, and would seem completely alien to any of our founders. "In God We Trust" was first placed on United States coins in 1861 during the Civil War. Teddy Roosevelt tried to remove the words from our money in 1907 but was shouted down. Only in 1956 was that phrase adopted as the national motto by the 84th Congress. The clause "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance was inserted only in 1954 when President Eisenhower signed legislation to recognize "the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."

For the first 180 years of existence, the United States never included God in its motto, on its currency, or in any document creating the republic. We were born a secular nation and remained one for nearly two centuries.

We really need to stop this ridiculous argument about being a Christian nation. If there should be any doubt, let us listen to the founding fathers themselves. This from Thomas Jefferson in an April 11, 1823, letter to John Adams: "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." He went on to say in his concluding paragraphs, "But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding..."

Jefferson even earlier said that his statute for religious freedom in Virginia was "meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and the Mohammeden, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."

The final word, however, belongs to John Adams, who said when signing the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli, "the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

The religious right claims, incredibly, to know more about the intent of our founders than the founders. For in spite of this overwhelming incontrovertible proof that we are not a Christian nation, codified in the words and deeds of Adams, Jefferson and their brethren, the "State of the First Amendment 2007" national survey revealed that nearly 70 percent of Americans believe our founding fathers intended the Unites States to be a Christian nation. Even more astonishing, 55 percent believe that the Constitution formally establishes a Christian nation. Here we find the essential core of what ails us: a fundamental misunderstanding by the majority of who we are as a country.

How can the majority of Americans believe something that is so evidently false, so easily verified as untrue? Because faith has triumphed over reason, and religion has corrupted our political discourse. Since religion is based, by definition, on faith rather than facts, no mechanism exists to arbitrate between competing ideas, and no claim no matter how absurd requires proof.

Once faith becomes dominant in public life, anything goes, because nothing is subject to verification. You simply need to believe. As soon as logic and facts are removed from the debate, conflicting ideas cannot be evaluated based on relative merit, but are supported as inherently right, immune to any reasonable counter-arguments. Without logic, in the absence of facts, nobody has any basis on which to claim to legitimacy compared to another. All have equal claim to the truth, with no mechanism to prove or disprove the claim. So based on faith alone Americans can ignorantly claim we are a Christian nation, unperturbed by the inconvenience of contradictory facts. Faith requires no proof. Faith is immune to history. The dominance of faith over reason is the only rational explanation for how so many people can believe something so clearly and verifiably false.

Consequences of Ignorance

From this false belief that the United States is a democratic theocracy flows the dark forces of extremism that create a rogue SBOE locally and Palin/Beck nationally. Economic insecurity is only the kindling that burns bright in the flame of religious intolerance. In this environment of religious fervor, rationalism is considered a problem to be conquered with belief. Science is a liberal plot. Intelligence is an ominous sign of elitism. The great divide in our society is not between rich and poor, or Catholic and Protestant, or Christian and Muslim, but between those who rely on faith to define the past and those who depend on reason and fact. The divide that matters is between those who believe we are a Christian nation and those who know we are not: efforts to solve societal problems in a theocracy are not often compatible with methods used in a democracy.

We have lost our common language because we no longer have a shared story of our nation's origin. Civil political discussions are simply not possible when the majority of Americans are ignorant of our founding principles, or when facts lose all relevance, or when history is rewritten as myth. A Chinese speaker can communicate effectively with an Englishman through an interpreter because while the two speak different languages many of the ideas being shared are common to both parties. That allows an interpreter to bridge the gap by finding different words to express the same thought. That is not true in a conversation between a theist and a humanist. Not only are the languages of faith and reason different, but so too are the fundamental ideas. There is no role for an interpreter here because language cannot jump the abyss of incompatible ideas. Somebody who believes in god cannot possibly comprehend a world in which god does not exist. Somebody who understands god as a myth cannot pretend to grasp a world controlled by some unseen higher power. So we keep shouting incomprehensibly at each other in a growing cycle of incivility. With no common tongue and incompatible world views the decibels and vitriol of our protests and proclamations are the only measure of success.

Yes, both sides are guilty of shouting, but that reality misses an important point of volume. There is no symmetry here, no "let's split the difference, there are two sides to every story." According to a 2008 survey from Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, more than 78% of Americans identify themselves as Christian. Only 4% are self-proclaimed non-believers (broken into the survey categories of atheists at 1.6% and agnostics at 2.4%). A yelling contest is not exactly equitable. The humanist cry is lost like a frog croak in a hurricane.

Yet in spite of these massive, overwhelming, deeply embedded majorities, Christians often speak in the dialect of victimhood. Many feel under attack by secular humanists threatening them with gay marriage, abortion, Darwinism and moral decay. This idea of Christians as modern victims is the perfect example of how the two sides can never communicate. From the perspective of a tiny 4% minority, any claim by a 78% supermajority that the views of a few are a threat to the many is simply surreal. That would be like claiming absurdly that the frog croak is drowning out the thundering winds of the hurricane. For humanists the idea is too ridiculous to contemplate, but quite real to theists.

The barrier separating us is defined by the unbridgeable gulf between god and rationalism. This is not a culture war, not a war borne from economic uncertainty, but a cosmic battle between theism and humanism. Humanists are losing, outgunned, out spent and in retreat. But even with that bleak reality, all is not lost. With the likes of Rebecca Bell-Meterau and Judy Jennings taking the field of battle, we can slowly turn the tide toward the shores of rationalism. Tip O'Neill's adage that "all politics is local" has never been more important or more obviously true as we battle school boards district by district. Our secular soldiers can take on their Christian counterparts; but they will need our persistent and dedicated support to ultimately claim victory over the forces of darkness.

 
 
 

Follow Jeff Schweitzer on Twitter: www.twitter.com/JeffSchweitzer

I had the honor and pleasure of meeting Arianna Huffington at a recent event in Austin, Texas, sponsored by the Texas Freedom Network (TFN), an organization dedicated to fighting right wing extremism ...
I had the honor and pleasure of meeting Arianna Huffington at a recent event in Austin, Texas, sponsored by the Texas Freedom Network (TFN), an organization dedicated to fighting right wing extremism ...
 
 
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Malia Litman
10:36 PM on 05/07/2010
I am sorry I misse you, as I came from Dallas to hear the talk as well. I write for Huffington Post as well, and as fate would have it, even though I write about Palin, my subject today had to do with Palin and religion. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/16/fiorina-palin-couldnt-do_n_126827.html Please let me know if you will ever be in Dallas. Malia
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
09:32 PM on 05/09/2010
Thanks for fanning; much appreciated. I'll check out your post.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Wm Hunn
Read a banned book today!
08:53 AM on 05/07/2010
Wm Hunn Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live.
..................................................Oscar Wilde
07:54 PM on 05/06/2010
I find it hilarious that this guy can be so extreme in his views. The absurdity is so amusing! "Theists and rationalists"? SERIOUSLY? Intolerant fools like this guy are the reason our government has so many issues. Expressing your opinion in one thing, but talking down anyone who has a different view (especially on religion with this guy) only makes you sound like another 15-year-old blogger who thinks he know's what's what in the world. Perhaps you could use all that money you're sitting on and the time you're wasting blowing it out your rear to take some courses in etiquette. From there, work on being less narrow minded.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
08:50 PM on 05/06/2010
Wow, what a reasoned, well-articulated, thoughtful comment. You addressed each point of contention so thoroughly that I have decided to abandon all of my views and simply follow your blogs as my source of inspiration.
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
David01
texan Badges, I don't got no badges. I don't need
12:23 PM on 05/07/2010
I'm with you, Jeff.
The fact is, this idiocy threatens the very existence of Christianity as an organized social force. It's reasonable to think that it was created by godless Marxists to bring down the institutions of Christianity with it's absurdity.
This is a fascist political movement that has hijacked Christianity.
The swastika has been replaced by the cross.
Not only do these guys not agree with the Founding Fathers, they don't even agree with Christ himself.
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ez duz it
οὐκ ἔστιν θεός
12:44 AM on 05/09/2010
Hi, Jeff!

I just stumbled across your blog a little bit ago. I'm surprised that it's taken me this long to see your writing.

I like what you say - and I like how you say what you do! Thanks...

"Fanned"
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
warriorwoman73
06:23 PM on 05/06/2010
Great post Jeff!
02:01 PM on 05/06/2010
Thank you Jeff. It was so nice to meet you as well. As I've said many times, I'm running for SBOE not for or against any specific group but so that our children can have access to the best education in the nation. The children are the ones who get lost and forgotten when these topics turn into shouting matches.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
03:31 PM on 05/06/2010
I fully support your emphasis on ensuring that our kids have access to the best education; that focus is clear. I hope you get on the Board to achieve that objective.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimspy
Quod quae operibus sufficit.
01:52 PM on 05/06/2010
How can a nation whose people still believe "God told Noah to go build an arky-arky" be trusted with nuclear weapons?
02:38 PM on 05/06/2010
That keeps me up at night. Seriously!
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
04:13 PM on 05/06/2010
Ii was more concerned when a buffoon had his hand on the button for eight years.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
jimspy
Quod quae operibus sufficit.
05:29 PM on 05/06/2010
We were never in trouble with Bush. He couldn't find the directions for "pushing the button."
06:25 AM on 05/06/2010
Anyone who believes the "end of days" will happen in their lifetime should be deemed unfit for public office.

My secular views do not endanger the evangelicals, but their views certainly put me in harms way.
02:43 PM on 05/06/2010
Exactly. I don't know if there truly are some people in office who are not opposed to helping the "end of days" come a bit sooner, but the fact that they even believe such stuff would seem to make them less likely to put funding into alternative energy, stop drilling offshore, or even make sure we have a good education system for future generations. Why bother? The second coming is imminent so all that is a waste of effort.
01:36 AM on 05/06/2010
Jeff, you're my guy.

Do you have any suggestions how a secular couple can fight the good fight in a Catholic/Nazarene stronghold where we live and work?

We did go to school board meetings when our kids were young when the overly-religious tried to bring religion in to the schools (they tried to ban a grade school reading book because it had stories about other cultures that were not Christian). Usually we "separation of church and staters" who were willing to speak up won the arguments, though we did lose the annual Halloween (Satan's) party.

But now the kids are grown and living in wonderfully progressive areas (I'm jealous) while we just have to nod and smile while neighbors and customers say they are praying for us (for any and every reason, apparently).

I really don't want to be an appeaser, but mostly them are nice, well-meaning people who would freak if they knew what we thought of their beliefs. We will consider moving when a couple of elderly relatives we look in on are gone, and if the job market allows, but in the meantime. . . . . . ?
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
09:38 AM on 05/06/2010
My advice is to speak up, openly voice your opinion. This has the wonderful impact of filtering out your real friends. You might be surprised how many others share your views but are also too shy to voice them in a hostile environment. And those who shun you were not worth your time to begin with. Is somebody who would freak if they knew your views really nice and well-meaning? Aren't they really petty and narrow-minded? I live in Texas, not exactly a hodbed of liberalism, and I am (probably not surprisingly) open and vocal about my views. I have found a small community of progressive thinkers who otherwise would have remained unknown to me if I worried about offending my conservative neighbors. Next time someone says they are praying for you, use that to express your views; discuss with them the futility of prayer (I've laid this out in: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-schweitzer/national-day-of-prayer-an_b_199345.html). I say somethign like, "I know you say that with a good heart and I am grateful you care about me, but my worldview does not include prayer. Then explain why. You'll find it liberating. Good luck!
02:20 PM on 05/06/2010
"Aren't they really petty and narrow-minded?" Well, yes and no. I think they are mostly scared to death. Either by me or for me.

My sisters KNOW I am going to hell, and evidently I am a part of a regular prayer chain of people I have never met in two different towns (luckily, not too close to me). They are scared FOR me. There is no reasoning with that sort of conviction.

cont. below
02:22 PM on 05/06/2010
cont. from above

Two years ago, I opened up to a woman who had been assistant leader to a youth service club I had run for over 20 years. I had known her over 10 years. I thought we were the best of friends. But she would end almost every sentence with, "Pray for me." Ex. "I have to go down town and I'm afraid I won't find a parking place. Pray for me." So, one day, I told her I don't pray because I don't think there is anyone listening. Though we had worked together for a common purpose for 10 years (helping kids do good works in their community) and I was the same person I had always been, she was now afraid I would be a bad influence on her kids.

I have a new next door neighbor that is as sweet as a person could be who "prays for me" a lot. I have MS, and she can tell when it is bad since I don't even make it outside on those days. I appreciate the sentiment. I have learned to hear it as, "I care about you."

We both would like to know people who think like we do and with whom we can be ourselves. But, I don't get out much, and my husband is looking for work and may end up working for a catholic hospital. I can't even conceive of a good time for us to "come out".
01:32 PM on 05/06/2010
I also am in that predicament. I live in a very Christian community. Especially challenging is that the kind loving over-religious people are my own family (not counting my husband and two small children). I don't overtly promote nonbelief, but it's hard to bite my irreverent tongue. It's hard as an agnostic family, with all the communions and confirmations and celebrations that revolve around faith in God. My children wonder why mom is a such skeptic, when noone else is. They worry about being outcasts.
02:35 PM on 05/06/2010
Hi ScienceLady,

When my kids were young, we read Greek myths, American Indian legends, various stories about other cultures and beliefs. And we read some Bible stories. We talked about how people used to believe all these things and how some people still believe some of them--even most of our relatives. And we talked about how we believe in helping others instead of praying that someone will help them. And then, of course, we went out and helped people. We (along with a youth club I led) adopted a nursing home where we visited and did crafts with the residents, we volunteered regularly at the animal shelter, we planted trees and flowers in parks and picked up trash there as well.

When the kids got older, we volunteered at the local food pantry/soup kitchen, and raised money for a local boy who needed a liver transplant.

The kids saw that "doing" is very important--"praying" not so much. They did attend church with their grandparents when we visited them, and respect other people, though not their beliefs.

They turned out great. One became a social worker. The other volunteers often for several charities in her community. Both married young men who think like they do and both live in communities where they can find like-minded people.

It is not easy to raise humanist kids if you are surrounded by religious family, but it can be done. I wish you well.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
04:25 PM on 05/06/2010
Stick to your convictions; while not always easy it is in the end very satisfying. You and your kids will come out better for it. Your kids will understand why you're a skeptic from the strentgh of your convictions; and those who would make them outcasts for their beliefs are not worth having as friends. I'll choose anytime a few close friends rather than numerous superficial relationships.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
rolodex
Now my micro-bio is not empty.
11:30 PM on 05/05/2010
I seriously considered going to the Austin event to hear Ariana. Had I known you would have been there, I think I would have preferred to meet & talk with you than her.

I don't know how involved you are in other political arenas, but it would be great for you to join the crowd May 19th for the Texas Freedom Network's "Don't White-Out Our History" Rally opposing the Texas State Board of Education's latest round of nuttiness. It will be May 19 at 1 p.m. at the William B. Travis Building, 1701 Congress Ave., in Austin.

http://www.tfn.org/site/PageServer?pagename=involved_latest_campaigns_white_out_rally&AddInterest=1281

I hope to be there, & hope you will be also.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
12:07 AM on 05/06/2010
I will be out of town, but plan on getting more involved with TFN. I'm sure we'll meet soon.
11:11 PM on 05/05/2010
American Christians have turned their religion on its head . They now believe that Gods reward is being rich even though Jesus was pretty plain spoken about the chances of a rich man getting into heaven . Todays Christians likewise think that being poor is Gods punishment and therefore the poor deserve no help . Of course I do not include all Christians and do not mean to generalize , however , a lot of Christians think this way today . They are not tolerant and not forgiving , I really do not know what religion they are following , but they call it Christianity .
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AdorableHero
Conquer your dark side or become it.
11:45 PM on 05/05/2010
Kinda sucks to be one who struggles with the bills.

I once had an online argument with a young Fundie-type over health care politics. I wouldn't have even touched the conversation if I hadn't seen him ranting and raving about the "lazy homeless." I was especially angry because someone on the board I admired had just left with an annoucement that she was going to be homeless for a while. I brought up to him *scripture* - particularly where Jesus talks of the sheep and the goats - "This you did for the least of these, you did for me." This... Fundie kid shot back at me some bull about how Jesus only meant for us to help poor people that "deserved" it (whatever deserving it means in the eyes of this kid and his family).

Needless to say, I was appalled. The kid probably thinks I'm going to Hell.
06:22 AM on 05/06/2010
The "poor that deserve it" is code for devote, white christians who would add their vote to the conservative movment. Non-white, non-christian poor certainly do not deserve succor.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
09:58 AM on 05/06/2010
But it is Christianity, their interpretation of it. Because it is open to interpretation with no objectiev way to arbitrate between competing claims any one claim is as valid as the other. So their version of Christianity is as representative of what it means to be a Christian as any other.
10:58 PM on 05/05/2010
My first post here: please excuse the typos, i am a thinker not a damn english teacher.I refuse to get into the whole God conversation.A persons beliefs are their own business,with that said yes i do believe in a higher power. That higher power might be God,Allah,or some yet unknown and undiscovered entity.I also believe with all my being that if an extraterestrial appeared in our midst who was capable of manipulating matter (including living organisms) with its mind that entity could very well appear to us "ignorant" beings as a God. there are still forces in our universe that we do not and perhaps never will fully comprehend,regardless of our individual beliefs.What my point is is this: we cant prove there is a God,whatever we want to call it, but the people who profess there is not such a entity cannot disprove it. We also will never truly know what our founding fathers believed in thier hearts and minds except for this, they certainly had had enough of petty wars and arguments over theology.In our schools we should teach accptance of other peoples beliefs because none of us have the "right" answer
11:13 PM on 05/05/2010
That is a good post , let me be your first fan .
11:13 PM on 05/05/2010
Agnostics unite ...................
10:58 PM on 05/05/2010
America has gone insane ......
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
12:08 AM on 05/06/2010
It would appear so; the only question is it a treatable condition or terminal?
01:37 AM on 05/06/2010
It sure does seem to be spreading, doesn't it?! Malignant, I'd say.
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AdorableHero
Conquer your dark side or become it.
10:49 PM on 05/05/2010
"Cosmic battle?" "Forces of darkness?" Oh, give me a break! That and your tone of "Thiests = bad, bad stupid heads" You're playing right into the hands of the Fundies, you know. This is the kind of language that confirms for them that "We're in a war for peoples' souls!"

I happen to be a Christian (though probably not "Christian" enough for most right-wingers)... and I've *never* in my recollection ever been under the impression that America was a specifically Christian nation (not even back when I *was* a Fundie). I paid attention in History classes - especially to things such as the seperation of Church and State which is supposed to guarantee protection to us all. I've known for a long time that the "Under God" rhetoric in the Pledge was a McCarthyism thing (heard if someone was unable to say "Under God" it meant they were a Commie). I thank you for the correction on the "In God We Trust" on the money, though - I thought that was a 1950s thing, too... rather than so early. I think it's fairly perverse, anyway, to invoke "God" on money, myself.

I agree that we do need to fight the "mythic America," but, honestly, you don't need to make it a "theists vs. atheists" thing. Some of us theists, and yes, even *Christians* are willing to fight with you to combat historical and cultural ignorance, at least, if you would refrain from broad-brush insults.
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
11:55 PM on 05/05/2010
You make the mistake of thinking that because you never were under the impression that America was a Christian nation that other Christians do so; more than 55% of all Americans falsely believe that the Constitution specifically creates a Christian nationi. So get off your high horse ("give me a break") and get real. It is entirely irrelevant that you *never* in your recollection ever thought American a Christian nation -- the majority of those who share your religion do. Your views do not define what the majority believe. If Christians are willing to help me fight cultural ignorance, where are they in the SBOE election? Who elected George Bush twice? Who is working to deny women the right to reproductive choice? Who is against stem cell research? Against teaching evolution in school? Are they Jews or Muslims? Like it or not, this is a battle for what this country is -- and it is a battle between theists and rationalists.
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AdorableHero
Conquer your dark side or become it.
01:01 AM on 05/06/2010
Well, does this mean that as a theist and loose Christian that I should just kill myself to make you happy or to benefit this fine nation by becoming absent from it? You don't seem to be willing to acknowledge that some of us could *possibly* work *with* you, so I guess each and every one of us is a worthless person, then?

I cannot change my beliefs just like that. Even when I've tried to chase them away, they've stuck. I'm fairly powerless where I stand right now, but I "vote for the right people" and I speak out on forums like this one on the Internet. I do what I can - but I guess it is not enough and will never be enough because just *happen* to have a theistic notion lodged in my brain.

I still contend "cosmic?" "Forces of darkness?" You sound like a videogame or something - or worse yet.... I'm having flashbacks to when I used to be a conservative fundie type and watched Jack Van Impe. The fundamentalists who want to perpetuate the Christian Myth of America - ie. your true enemies are the ones who use this very langauge.

I realize of course, by the simple trait that I am a theist, nothing I say is of any value to you. You've made your prejudice abundantly clear. I will, however, remain on your side when it comes to dispelling myths about American history.
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AdorableHero
Conquer your dark side or become it.
01:13 AM on 05/06/2010
Also, dude... I have spelling mistakes in my own posts from time to time, but... wow... or calm down a little before you compose a reply?

And "Are they Jews or Muslims?" (From your wording, you're talking about how Christians have stymied American progress, but apparently not Jews or Muslims)? Then you go on to say that this is a "battle between theists and rationalists." Does "Theist= Christian" exclusively to you? I was under the impression that Jews and Muslims were Theists - Monotheists, to be exact, like Christians.

There are also, lesser known theist categories, such as pantheists. The panthiests I know don't tend to cause political turmoil of any sort.

Then, of course, while you might dissagree, there are people in all of the above who might call themselves "theistic rationalists." I think I've read a few of them on other blogs here at Huffpost.
09:36 PM on 05/05/2010
A key insight has been lost in popular culture in the United States. Shamefully, it has also been lost in more intellectual circles. The founding fathers did not set out to make separation of church and state a plank of the new world for no reason; they didn't just pull the idea out from their collective buttholes. It is worth remembering that Europe had within living memory been ravaged by centuries of warfare. Much of this savagery was directly attributable to religious doctrinal differences. There was nothing theoretical about the matter. They could see with their own eyes and hear from the mouths of many was a ghastly prize was to be paid when religion and state are intertwined. It was for this reason that they set such store on the separation. To attempt to head off in the new world the catastrophic consequences of religious states in the old world. This lesson, sad to say, seems to have been lost. So much conversation about the fathers talks as if they just plucked the compartmentalization of the church from thin air. Far from it!!!
11:00 PM on 05/05/2010
Part of the reason they did this was because they had experience with the Anglican Church otherwise known as the Queens church . Britains official church was the Anglican church and our founders understood the problem with this .
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
12:10 AM on 05/06/2010
The founders had two symmetrical fears: that religion would corrupt government, and that government would corrupt religion. That second fear seems to be neglected by the far right.
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HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Thomas Dombrowsky
09:32 PM on 05/05/2010
It is true that the constitution and the documents of the founding fathers establish a secular republic, but this secular republic did not spring from their minds like Minerva from the brain of Zeus either. Before the US existed the Massachusetts Bay Colony already had an 150 year history as a theocracy that rivalled Calvin's Geneva. We are the heirs of a very mixed inheritance. One stream from Voltaire and one stream from Calvin. The question we face is what do we want to make of our republic going forward. Who cares about original intent?
11:02 PM on 05/05/2010
apparently our republic wants to rule the world ........
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HUFFPOST BLOGGER
Jeff Schweitzer
Scientist; Fmr. White House Senior Policy Analyst
12:12 AM on 05/06/2010
I believe origin matters; we exist as a democracy today because of the thougths and actions of those who came before. By understanding them, we can better understand ourselves now. That does not mean we can't evolve and change, but when we do we should understand why we are taking a certain path, and knowing our past helps us do that.
12:29 PM on 05/06/2010
Very true, but the evidence suggests that the number of people with any historical knowledge and understanding is small and those with a propensity to do the necessary work is smaller. Far more comfortably to wallow in a sea of myth and ideology. In this regard I am not an optimist..