No More Clever Wordplay on Torture

On Wednesday, the House adopted H.R. 4156, the Orderly and Responsible Iraq Redeployment Appropriations Act. By passing this bill, we declared that the time has come for our troops to redeploy out of Iraq, and, just as important, we affirmed America's values and our respect for the rule of law. This measure includes language drawn from legislation authored by myself and Rep. Delahunt that would ensure a single, uniform, baseline standard for all interrogations conducted on persons in the custody or effective control of the U.S. Government.

Our bill, H.R. 4114, the American Anti-Torture Act of 2007, would extend the first part of the McCain Amendment, which requires the Department of Defense to comply with the interrogation standards set forth in the Army Field Manual, to all government agencies. This would include the CIA -- the agency reportedly responsible for carrying out the Administration's "enhanced" or "alternate" interrogation program and for operating secret overseas prisons. Simply put, this language says once and for all no more torture and no more waterboarding. No more clever wordplay, no more evasive answers, and no more uncertainty with regard to what is allowed and what is not.

We do not need torture as an available instrument of interrogation. At a recent hearing in my Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, expert interrogator Steve Kleinman, Col., US Air Force Reserve, testified that torture yields unreliable information and that the Army Field Manual provides sufficient guidance for effective interrogation. Other military experts, including General David Petraeus, similarly have spoken out against torture and in favor of the Army Field Manual's standards of conduct.

Torture, including practices like waterboarding, violates the legal and moral standards of all civilized nations. While the notion that torture works has been glorified in television shows and movies, the simple truth is this: torture has never been an effective interrogation method. The language we adopted last night helps restore the honor of the United States, and forces the Administration to act in a manner consistent with the Constitution. Torture fails to make us safe, but it certainly makes us less free.

Congressman Nadler is the Chair of the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties

Comments

[mosh]

"Torture, including practices like waterboarding, violates the legal and moral standards of all civilized nations. . . . " the rest of this sentence, dealing with efficacy misses the point. Torture is immoral. Period. Whether it is efficacious or not.

And don't all good lawyers live by the rule you don't litigate (or, in this case, create laws or rights) you've already got? You don't have the votes in the Senate to override a veto (and the chimp will veto this if it does pass since he has no shame) so then what? If your bill stalls or gets defeated does that ipso facto make the legality of waterboarding an open question, or, worse, legal?

No, waterboarding is, under current law and treaties and under the Constitution, illegal. The only thing that remains is when you are going to prosecute those who have flagrantly broken this law and violated our trust? That is your duty Rep Nadler. When?

[FlowerGirl]

Isn't it time that we stopped lying to ourselves and denying what is obvious to anybody with a brain and willingness to see the truth. I believe that Inge Scholl's "White Rose" should be required reading for all Americans. The sad scenes of the family reactions to the doomed students is typical of any "it couldn't happen here" crowd. It was Germany more than any other country that gave the world its humanism, and surel;y it couldn't have happened there. Just as surely nothing like that could happen (have happened?) here.

[Durango]

I am so sick of the media falling all over themselves to adopt Republican talking points while ignoring reality.

The Repubs have, once again, managed to deflect the debate about WARCRIMES and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY by misleading "debate" on what is or is not torture.

Torture was not made criminal by Nuremberg, or even the Geneva Convention. It was made illegal when the VIII Amendment to the Constitution was adopted banning "cruel or unusual punishment" back in 1791.

Sorry folks, that is the end of the story.

And when the memos appear in which Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld et al approved the use of waterboarding they should be indicted immediately.

The terms of the Constitution are not negotiable or subject to revocation.

[Pdubya]

Pass HR Bill 3835 The American Freedom Agenda Act

...that would be representative and patriotic!

[Pdubya]

what's next...???? $50Billion for Bushco to "phase out" the Patriot Act? How long will that take??? 2013?

5 years, 45 days too long.

[ahornick]

All you've done is give King George and his minions a "Get Out Of Jail For Free" Card.

Waterboarding has been illegal for over 60 years. Remember the Nuremburg Trials? Or for more comprehensive info, check Elizabeth Holtzman's post of Nov 13.

The President can now try to take advantage of this legislation to sidestep impeachment and actual prosecution by now claiming that if it was illegal before, Congress would not have tried to define it in legislation after he authorized it.

Congress is giving the President what he wants, yet again. Of course, if it has anything in it he doesn't want, he'll veto it anyway and you won't be able to override it.

And if one reads this bill, you find gems like "(d) The GOAL for the completion of the transition of United States Armed Forces to a LIMITED PRESENCE and missions as described in subsection (e) shall be a date that is not later than December 15, 2008." Another non-binding bill, with interpretations left to the whims of an out of control President.

You would have accomplished a helluva lot more by just not taking any action to continue funding. Let King George worry about what words would have satisfied the Congress to get funding.

The learning curve for the current Congress is too steep. You all need to be replaced.

[stellanoir]

"Extraordinary rendition" is totally inhumane.

Here's the clever wordplay I suggest . . .

Torture = Legalized Sadism

[retarius]

The point isn't whether torture is reliable. The problem is that innocent people are tortured...people that know nothing (besides being morally repugnant to decent people).

[AtomicSplash]

Hmmmmmmmmm, I think I've found a solution for all those republicans that just don't seem to be able to recall any of the the things they've done while under the employ of the bush administration...

torture! (excuse me, enhanced interrogation techniques)

and as to the issue of them making stuff up while under torture? Exactly how is that any different from questioning them without using torture (I mean, enhanced interrogation techniques)?

[BARRISTER]

If nothing else, the last seven years have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that we Americans are the world's biggest Terrorists, willing to terrorize people for our own ends.Shame on us,U.S!!

[TazeMe65]

The U.S. military now says explosives experts had to dismantle three roadside bombs to reach the brutalized bodies of two missing U.S. soldiers.

In a statement, the military says the remains were found tied together with a bomb between one soldier’s legs.

A U.S. military official said last week that one and possibly both young men were tortured and beheaded.

According to the military statement, the bodies of Pfc. Kristian Menchaca of Houston and Pfc. Thomas Tucker of Oregon were found the evening of June 19.

[Stacygs]

Finally! We have got to stop this administration's assault on our constitution, including its tacit sanctioning of torture as a "technique" of interrogation.
I hope that there will be a groundswell of support for those who are working on this important issue, and not a cent to those who fail to do so. Not a cent to officials and politicians who would sanction the use of torture by our government.
www.notacent.com

[hannitizer]

one by one
the callous calls for inhumanity revisited
echo from the swollen lips of ego-driven fools

drooling with anticipation
driven by rage and revenge they heinously hoist hyperbole
as though means can be justified by potentially positive ends

pain and sorrow
ruthless results of this godforsaken reality
inhumanely unseen by self-assuring eyes

torture! beyond the pale
they act with no conscience of mind
these foolish souls on their way to Karma

[Ravenlea]

This is a good sign, Congressman Nadler. Now I hope your committee will move on to impeaching Cheney and Bush so that the issue of torture and crimes against humanity will cease to be an American problem. Impeaching these criminals will go a long way to restoring our integrity and our reputation in the world. Impeaching these criminals is the right thing to do.

Dennis Kucinich made a start on impeachment with the HR333 articles of impeachment/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/24/AR2007042401542.html

We, as citizens, can do our part by making our voices heard. We need to let our reps and senators know that we want impeachment. The more of us who take action, the more likely we are to succeed. If we fail, we fail, but at least we will have tried.

Write/Call the Judiciary committee and tell them you support HR333 and impeachment. http://judiciary.house.gov/CommitteeMembership.aspx

Write/Call Congress http://www.congress.org

Sign on with the folks at Impeach Bush: http://www.impeachbush.org/site/PageServer

The main reason that this is so important to me is because I believe it's
the right thing to do. These men have committed crimes against my country
and against international law. They have opted out of the World Court, so
they can't be tried there. It is up to us as a nation to take
responsibility and hold them accountable for what they have done in our
name. Their crimes are not paper crimes. They are crimes that have led to
hundreds of thousands of deaths (and it looks like they aren't satisfied
to stop there). They are crimes against human decency in engaging in and
attempting to justify torture. The list goes on and on. What does it say
about us that we are unwilling to inconvenience ourselves to hold them
accountable? Nothing good.

I love my country. I want it back. Please help me get it. Move ahead with
HR333.

[peacehappens]

Please assure me that my fears of America being turned into a fascist state are unfounded. It is so hard for me to believe that in our country we are having to argue against the use of torture, that we invaded a sovereign nation without cause, that we intend to do it again, that our infrastructure is being allowed to deteriorate to justify the use of privatizing the services needed to maintain it, that our government is fighting for the right to spy on average citizens without providing just cause ...

I'm sad and very concerned. I have left the Democratic party because the actions of the likes of Pelosi, Hoyer and Schumer. I am an Independent now and glad to be one of your constituents. Thank you for all that you do and I hope you continue to fight the good fight.