iPhone app iPad app Android phone app Android tablet app More

Featuring fresh takes and real-time analysis from HuffPost's signature lineup of contributors
Jerry Cope

GET UPDATES FROM Jerry Cope
 

Interview: James Hansen on the Tar Sands Pipeline Protest, the Obama Administration and Intergenerational Justice

Posted: 08/21/11 07:21 PM ET

On the first day of a planned two-week sit in at the White House organized by TarSandsAction over 70 people were arrested including one of the lead organizers organizer Bill McKibben. In an attempt to intimidate concerned citizens and policy makers from continuing the sit-in, the National Park Service did not honor its previous agreement with McKibben and others to "catch and release" participants but is holding them in jail over the weekend. Numerous environmental organizations and leading climate scientists have condemned the Keystone XL Pipeline project which would bring 900,000 barrels of dirty oil from the Alberta Tar Sands to Texas refineries. Preeminent climate scientist and director of NASA's Goddard Institute James Hansen has described the Alberta Tar Sands oil extraction development as a game-over proposition for climate change. Sunday afternoon, he addressed the continuing struggle to address the ever increasing threat of anthropogenic climate change. Dr. Hansen will be participating in the protest against the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline in Washington, DC on August 29th with religious leaders.

JC: President Obama had lofty promises regarding climate change and the environment during his campaign. To date, his administration has failed to deliver and is now positioned to approve the Tar Sands Pipeline, the worst idea in many years in terms of its impact on climate. Do you see any signs that the Obama administration is moving to seriously address climate change? Do you feel they administration deserves a second chance?

JH: Are they serious? The tar sands pipeline approval or disapproval will provide the sign of whether the Obama administration is serious about climate change and protecting the future of young people.

Do they deserve a second chance? Yes, everybody deserves a second chance.

Obama's first chance was when he was elected -- he could have made energy independence and climate a top priority. Talking nice about sun and wind and green jobs is just greenwash. The only effective policy would be a rising carbon fee collected from fossil fuel companies with 100 percent of the funds distributed to the public -- stimulating the economy and moving us rapidly toward a clean energy future. Anything less is just blather.


JC: CO2 levels have now exceeded 391 ppm, and US emissions are growing again at a record rate, over 4% this year so far. This in spite of an ever increasing body of scientific evidence that unequivocally demonstrates anthropogenic climate change to be seriously affecting global climate life support systems. It would seem that policy makers and business leaders the world over are incapable of altering the dead-on course to climate collapse. What can be done?

JH: The problem is that the policy makers the world over are paying more attention to the fossil fuel lobbyists than they are to the well being of young people and nature, as my colleagues and I have described in the paper "The Case for Young People and Nature".


Until the public demands otherwise, the policy makers will continue to serve their financiers.

That's the point of the present action -- to draw attention to the inter-generational injustice of current policies -- our children and grandchildren are getting shafted by our well-oiled coal-fired politicians who do not look beyond their next election.

The tar sands verdict will show whether he really intends to move us to clean energy or whether he will instead support going after dirtier and dirtier fuels (tar sands, oil shale, mountaintop removal, long-wall coal mining, hydro-fracking, deep ocean and Arctic exploration, etc.).


2011-08-21-6062545625_9e52c822e5.jpg

Gus Speth, Bill McKibben, and others at White House protesting the proposed Tar Sands Pipeline/Photo Credit: Josh Lopez/Tarsandsaction


JC: As you know over 70 people including our friends Bill McKibben and Gus Speth were arrested yesterday in front of the White House. As always, Bill and the group had repeated discussions with the authorities prior to the action and were assured that this would be "catch and release". As it turns out the National Park Service changed the terms of engagement and are holding everyone (except DC residents) over the weekend to discourage others from participating in the two weeks of protest. Do you think this change of tactic by the National Park Service will be effective in dissuading others from attending?

JH: No. What we are doing to the future of our children, and the other species on the planet, is a clear moral issue. As Albert Einstein said, "thought without action is a crime." Choosing silence and safety is not an option.

Jail threats did not dissuade Martin Luther King -- and intergenerational justice is a moral issue of comparable magnitude to civil rights.


 

Follow Jerry Cope on Twitter: www.twitter.com/jercope

 
 
  • Comments
  • 43
  • Pending Comments
  • 0
  • View FAQ
Comments are closed for this entry
View All
Favorites
Recency  | 
Popularity
photo
Jett7
You're gonna need a bigger boat.
12:02 PM on 08/24/2011
The priority must be our planet, not the almighty dollar.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Alicia MalkemusWise
Superduper1
07:00 PM on 08/22/2011
It's not just about the oil companies & $$$$. It is about our very fragile environment and the damage that the pipeline would cause....While we're at it. Why don't we create a pipeline from flood prone areas in the U.S. and create a pipeline made of bamboo material reinforced with a non-corrosive Kevlar material and pump the extra water that is wasted to the drought stricken areas of the U.S. How is that for a "Green Solution"? By the way, this could work world wide as a lot of areas of the world are sinking into the sea.
05:23 PM on 08/22/2011
First of all the CO2 issue is dead meat – we have no serious GW and have nearly doubled CO2. the theory is still unproved.

As for the Tar Sands we can lay this one right at the feet of the idiots in the environmental lobby. They have been proud that they stopped nice clean oil drilling offshore and in Alaska – now we have the dirty tar sands solution and they own it.

And FYI Hanson just blasted the fairy tales from the alternatives crowd.

(1) Hansen’s comparison of belief in renewables to belief in the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy and his comparison of such policies to forcing his grandchildren to drink kool-aid. Hansen placed part of the “intellectual” blame for widespread belief in such policies on Amory Lovins, a prominent American environmentalist who was the first proponent of soft renewables as a large footprint energy solution. It appears to me that there appears to be a direct lineage from Lovins’ fantasies criticized by Hansen to the IPCC Greenpeace scenario in the recent WG3 report on renewables.

http://climateaudit.org/
photo
ILoveFiction
That's unbelievable!
06:46 PM on 08/22/2011
"we have no serious GW and have nearly doubled CO2"

Everybody is in such a hurry to see results these days.

You have to give the ocean a little time to heat up.
09:56 AM on 08/23/2011
well that is the point isn't it. The fact is the ocean SHOULD be heating up and isn't.

Missing Heat - NPR

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=88520025

Ocean Heat Content Adjustments: Follow-up and More Missing Heat
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/03/20/ocean-heat-content-adjustments-follow-up-and-more-missing-heat/

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/03/global-sst-update-through-mid-march-2011/

In the released CRU emails NCAR climate scientist Kevin Trenberth says:
The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't.
Last week Science magazine gave Trenberth a chance to explain what he meant by this comment, which has been much discussed in the aftermath of the released emails (the image above is from that article). In that article, Trenberth, and Kevin Fasullo, write:
Over the past 50 years, the oceans have absorbed ~90% of the energy added to the climate system; the rest has gone into melting sea and land ice and heating the land surface and atmosphere ( 4). CO2 concentrations have further increased since 2003, and even more heat should have accumulated at a faster rate since then. Where has this energy gone (see the figure)?
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
REMEMBER2050
Socialism for the rich; capitalism for the poor.
11:56 AM on 08/24/2011
You are aware there is more offshore drilling under the Obama administration than there was under Bush? That "nice clean drilling?" If Obama were white and a Republican you'd confuse him with the Messiah.

The rest of your post is as truthful as your statements about offshore drilling. Don't have any kids, do you?
04:28 PM on 08/24/2011
you mean there could have been until his man allowed BP to skip the critical paperwork and got us the disaster. then we stopped for months for no reason except to make environmentalists happy. Now these fools own the Tar Sands - we could have bought less and drilled more but they got their way - the unintended consequences. Just like the morons who oppose nuclear plants - so we stop nukes and get what? 43 new coal fired plants.

And yes i have 3 kids and we stay far away from coal plants.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Brett y
Frack the frackers!
04:11 PM on 08/22/2011
First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Since when did we give up our right to peaceably assemble or to petition the Government for a redress of grievances?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
eaarth2
“An era ends when its illusions are exhausted
07:51 AM on 08/22/2011
Good, interview Mr. Cope- a bit short, but still insightful. Dr. Hansen is stating concrete facts. Obama nor any other politician will begin to make changes until they are freed of their masters strings- the fossil fuel companies.

We have a climate that has crossed the line already- with early tipping points with more extremes and instability that causes many of us now to live in a state of "Am I next" to be hit with some kind of weird, extreme or potentially violent event. The arctic this year is melting at a rate that could come close to the 2007 event in late summer, of seeing a huge drop off in extent and volume.

As Dr. Hansen says- the public will not demand change until we begin to see a further breakdown in the climate. That is happening now- but in 5-10 years it will become worse. If we wait till after 2020 to begin a program to make reductions in C02- the costs for the economy grow exponentially. The ruin of the climate by then may have reached anyway- it paints an exceedingly bleak and chaotic future for all.
05:24 PM on 08/22/2011
what line is that? You mean no real temp increase in 10 years + and the theory of GW full of holes?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
eaarth2
“An era ends when its illusions are exhausted
05:42 PM on 08/22/2011
full of wholes

the only holes are in right now the rapidly melting arctic sea ice
do some research check out the Arctic Sea Ice Blog

http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/

then look at yourself in the mirror- and ask yourself if you have any ethics?
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
eaarth2
“An era ends when its illusions are exhausted
05:45 PM on 08/22/2011
Again

the holes you will find in the arctic sea ice- right now which is melting very rapidly
just as Dr Hansen predicted- when C02 levels reach this level.

Then go to the mirror- and ask yourself this; Do I have any moral conscious? Have fun.
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
eaarth2
“An era ends when its illusions are exhausted
02:24 PM on 08/23/2011
regional? Based on what evidence?

Its melting! at an historical amount----

Hansen was right- you? the moderators here would not allow me to say what you are.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
REMEMBER2050
Socialism for the rich; capitalism for the poor.
12:04 PM on 08/24/2011
I'm tempted too!
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fiddler3
physicist, musician, parent
07:21 AM on 08/22/2011
People who are concerned about the possible environmental damage we will pass on to future generations do not seem as concerned about the crushing debts we are passing along to pay for the benefits this generation received in social programs.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
REMEMBER2050
Socialism for the rich; capitalism for the poor.
12:09 PM on 08/24/2011
You are aware that each of us has paid for SS and Medicare in the form of approimately 15.3% of every buck we've ever made in our entire lives? I should be rather surprised if these two programs were not included in your indictment of "social programs." Oh, another thing, the SS trust fund has NOTHING to do with debt. Nor Medicare's. Medicare's problem, of course, is that payments are made based entirely on the country's entire out-of-control health care costs.

Once you get these gigantic "social programs" out of the way, you might be able to focus on the real problem, which is that it's quite impossible for a country to remain solvent when a prior President was stupid enough to run two wars on a VISA and generate such significant tax breaks for the rich that the United States is now about the 64TH COUNTRY IN THE WORLD down in the gap between rich and poor. There are third-world countries with better stats than us, and that, not by coincidence, is exactly where we're headed.

By the way, comparing a concern about the environment with debt was not logical on its face from the get-go anyway. Logic 101 is probably even offered in junior colleges.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
fiddler3
physicist, musician, parent
12:25 PM on 08/24/2011
Ahh ... case in point. There does seem to be a correlation between those who are supportive of 'green' causes and those who are supportive of large social programs, such as the Medicare and SS programs you cite. So apparently there is some logic to it. (Actually, the logic is obvious if you look at the underlying political philosophies that relate to both.)

Consider the situation of a future generation, say in 50 years. What fraction of the GDP will be needed to support the health care and the SS payments for retirees? This is not a new topic. I expect they will be more concerned about the debt than about the temperature and sea level.
photo
HUFFPOST SUPER USER
Willinois
Tree-hugging organizer and air hockey
04:54 AM on 08/22/2011
I appreciate any attempt to get Obama to do more. But, I don't see the point in ignoring what he has already done. When fossil fuel Democrats in the Senate blocked cap-and-trade, Obama moved forward on a dozen or so EPA regulations that will squeeze the coal industry. The stimulus bill made huge investments in clean energy. New fuel economy standards, high speed rail, and cash for clunkers tackle the transportation sector. It might help to do more if we acknowledge and support the additional action Obama has already called for, such as cutting oil subsidies and investing in another round of clean energy infrastructure.

He's already the most accomplished clean energy President in American history by leaps and bounds. It's simply misleading to dismiss that with blanket statements like claiming that "his administration has failed to deliver." He has made significant accomplishments given the fossil fuel majority in Congress. Why let Congress off the hook by failing to mention their role in blocking more progress?
05:29 PM on 08/22/2011
ya and the dopes in EPA will never do squat and we all know it. and clean energy is fine and will be useful in a few decades. Until then we need oil and gas and the environmental lobby owns the Tar Sands issue by preventing drilling........the worst of unintended consequences - al lot like ethanol............
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
fumes
Midnight Toker
11:06 PM on 08/21/2011
Ford And Diesel Never Intended Cars To Use Gasoline

When Henry Ford told a New York Times reporter that ethyl alcohol was "the fuel of the future" in 1925, he was expressing an opinion that was widely shared in the automotive industry. "The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumach out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost anything," he said. "There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years."

Henry Ford's first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the CAR ITSELF WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM HEMP! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, 'grown from the soil,' had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel; Popular Mechanics, 1941.

Rudolf Diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, designed it to run on vegetable and seed oils like hemp; he actually ran the thing on peanut oil for the 1900 World's Fair.

As for an alternative to petroleum...

Hemp grows like mad from border to border in America; so shortages are unlikely.

Hemp fuel is biodegradable; so oil spills become fertilizer not eco-catastrophes.

Growing hemp for fuel would be a tremendous boon for American farmers and the agricultural industry.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=872
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
eaarth2
“An era ends when its illusions are exhausted
05:52 PM on 08/22/2011
how is the arctic these days?

melting as Hansen predicted as C02 reaches this level and global temperatures are now at the warmest part of the Holocene.
09:27 PM on 08/21/2011
The oil sands are a strategic resource that is important for the energy security of Canada, North America and the world. The oil sands comprise more than 97 percent of Canada’s 175 billion barrels of proven oil reserves. In 2009, production from the oil sands was 1.5 million barrels per day. While more than 7 billion barrels of oil sands crude oil have been produced to date, this represents only a small portion of the overall resource. Continued demand for oil is expected to contribute to ongoing growth in oil sands production for years to come.

Oil plays a dominant role in meeting the world’s energy needs, and this situation is expected to continue for decades. Even with the investments that world governments, including Canada, are making in renewable energy, in efficiency and in other measures to support a low-carbon energy future, the International Energy Agency’s World Energy Outlook for 2009 still expects world oil demand to grow by 1 percent per year to 2030.

As the more easily accessible and lighter crude oils are depleted around the world, countries are turning increasingly to heavier and less accessible oil resources, which are more energy intensive to extract and process. Through strict regulatory regimes and new technological developments, Canada is committed to developing our heavy oil resources, including the oil sands, in a sustainable and responsible way.

More progressive information:
http://www.nrcan.gc.ca/eneene/pdf/os-sb-eng.pdf
10:57 PM on 08/21/2011
Really Eco"truth"? You're willing to plunge the human species into centuries of famine, war, relocation, and other turmoil (that's the bright side, if we survive) for your profits? Banging my head against this ad from the Canadian oil ministry. Or whatever the hell ya'll call it up there.
12:20 AM on 08/23/2011
Excuse me but what planet are you from ... what do you think has been happening on Earth for the past centuries - one big love in ?

The oil sands pipeline projects are a peaceful way of ending "famine, war, relocation, and other turmoil". There is nothing wrong with profits as long as the rewards and risks are shared equally between capital, and labor.

In the spring of 1968 Robert Kennedy said: "Too much and too long, we seem to have surrendered community excellence and community values in the mere accumulation of material things…. Gross National Product measures neither our wit nor our courage, neither our wisdom nor our learning, neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country. It measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile.”

After 5,000 years of humankind developing petroleum natural resources such as bitumen there is close to 6,000 different peaceful products that "makes life worthwhile" being used by billions of people everyday.

If the protesters really want to make a positive change for the betterment of our species they should be protesting in front of their local burger joints. Over one billion tons of cattle fecal, and urine wastes along with tens of millions of pounds of cattle antibiotics, and hormones, wash through the ground into American drinking water every year. 12,000 gallons of freshwater is used to produce every pound of beef the protesters eat. Cattle accounts for 28% of U.S. methane emissions from human related activities.
Oginikwe
I think therefore I'm dangerous
11:21 PM on 08/21/2011
Okay, now that we've heard that word from that sponsor-the Canadian government, try some different viewpoints.

http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/natureofthings/2011/tippingpoint/

http://www.fftimes.com/node/236266

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2010/08/30/oil-sands-athabasca-river.html

http://solveclimatenews.com/news/20110516/Athabasca-River-Alberta-oil-sands-toxins-cancer



Those tar sands look like acres of cancer cells.
07:58 PM on 08/21/2011
Obama should be listening to Jim Hansen. It's now or never for the planet's atmosphere. Either the U.S. takes immediate measures to seriously reduce emission and move towards a clean green economy, or it's over and out for civilization.
05:26 PM on 08/22/2011
ya listen to him on alternatives - he is right on the money. His GW idears are where he falls doen

(1) Hansen’s comparison of belief in renewables to belief in the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy and his comparison of such policies to forcing his grandchildren to drink kool-aid. Hansen placed part of the “intellectual” blame for widespread belief in such policies on Amory Lovins, a prominent American environmentalist who was the first proponent of soft renewables as a large footprint energy solution. It appears to me that there appears to be a direct lineage from Lovins’ fantasies criticized by Hansen to the IPCC Greenpeace scenario in the recent WG3 report on renewables.

http://climateaudit.org/
This user has chosen to opt out of the Badges program
photo
eaarth2
“An era ends when its illusions are exhausted
05:54 PM on 08/22/2011
Obama knows what Hansen is saying- and that truth is frightening. Obama lacks the backbone to tell the truth- Hansen has the backbone.